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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » "The people are going to raise their voice to show we are not silent. With the last breath in our body we will be against those who are insulting to our religion and prophet,"...

"The people are going to raise their voice to show we are not silent. With the last breath in our body we will be against those who are insulting to our religion and prophet,"...

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Sal
Hospital Bob
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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

...said Haji Samar Gul, an 80-year-old protester at the Kabul demonstration. "We shouted death to America, death to supporters of America, death to slaves of America."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/17/afghanistan-protests-anti-islam-film?newsfeed=true

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

A suicide bomber crashed a car packed with explosives into one of the gates of Baghdad’s heavily guarded green zone today, killing seven people, including three security officers, Iraqi officials said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0917/breaking14.html

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The leader of Lebanon's Shiite Muslim movement Hezbollah called for new protests Monday over an anti-Islamic film that sparked violent anti-American demonstrations across the Middle East last week.

Speaking on Hezbollah's al-Manar television service Sunday night, Hassan Nasrallah said the movie -- excerpts of which have been posted online -- "represents a dangerous turn in the war against Islam and the great prophet, peace be upon him."
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"We must stress that should be awareness among Muslims and Christians not to let any strife take place in any country or any place in the world," Nasrallah said. "The people who should be accountable, and brought to justice as well as punished and boycotted, are those directly responsible for the film and those who support them and protect them. And it is the United States of America that is at the forefront of those."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/16/world/meast/lebanon-film-protests/index.html

Guest


Guest

Oops, I just posted the afgan protest. ill delete it.

but at some point we have to push back.

this is beyond rediculus.

the way I see it is we do one of two things.

we shoot them

or we leave all of those coutries and tell them to handle thier own mess and to do it without our finacial aid.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Of proposed U.S. foreign aid for 2012, almost two-thirds is earmarked for Muslim nations and one-third goes to Arab countries.


http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/05/24/its-all-your-money-foreign-aid-muslimarab-nations#ixzz26ivYURAd

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

They hate us. They hate Americans. They hate what America stands for. And no amount of diplomacy, U.S. aid or conversation is going to change that in the near future.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/169993606_Doblin__It_s_not_the_video__they_hate_us.html

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I tell my fellow Americans that "they" don't hate them for their freedom but, rather, because successive US governments all too willingly and knowingly supported dictators who denied their populations any kind of freedom

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/14/egypt-us-hatred-film-protests

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:I tell my fellow Americans that "they" don't hate them for their freedom but, rather, because successive US governments all too willingly and knowingly supported dictators who denied their populations any kind of freedom

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/14/egypt-us-hatred-film-protests

if they say they are doing this because of the movie, then they hate us for our freedoms. because freedom of expression/speech is part of our society.

now if they are saying its anything else, then well we already knew that. This is about forcing islamic law around the world.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Rogue wrote:

if they say they are doing this because of the movie, then they hate us for our freedoms. because freedom of expression/speech is part of our society.

now if they are saying its anything else, then well we already knew that. This is about forcing islamic law around the world.

It's both things.
One, their religion teaches them to hate everything about our culture.
Two, they also hate us because our government has propped up dictators in their countries since the 1950's.

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
Rogue wrote:

if they say they are doing this because of the movie, then they hate us for our freedoms. because freedom of expression/speech is part of our society.

now if they are saying its anything else, then well we already knew that. This is about forcing islamic law around the world.

It's both things.
One, their religion teaches them to hate everything about our culture.
Two, they also hate us because our government has propped up dictators in their countries since the 1950's.

so its our fault they have dictators? wernt they just upset about having a dictator and we supported them getting rid of that dictator and then they killed some of our people?

I think its just safe to say its all about religion.

if this was christians acting this way you people would have no problem calling it what it is.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Rogue wrote:

so its our fault they have dictators? wernt they just upset about having a dictator and we supported them getting rid of that dictator and then they killed some of our people?

I think its just safe to say its all about religion.

We've only been supportive of the rebellions against dictators since the "Arab Spring" began. Before that for a half century we propped up dictators they didn't want. And for the last whole decade we've occupied their countries (Iraq) and are still occupying their countries (Afghanistan).
Try to put yourself in their place, Chrissy, and try to think about how much you would love another country which was propping up dictators in the U.S. and occupying it.

But yes, religion is equally responsible. It's brainwashed hundreds of millions of these people into believing foolish nonsense.

Sal

Sal

There are three things that are fueling these protests.

The first is extremism. The extremist elements in the Muslim world have been marginalized to some extent by the arab spring. They have seized upon this movie as a way to regain some of their clout.

The second is poverty and ignorance. When poverty is rampant and information is limited, people are quick to latch onto any movement that they perceive as sympathetic to their oppression, even when it ultimately runs counter to their interests. The people in the streets are largely composed of unemployed and disaffected youths who haven't even seen the movie.

The third is a complete and utter lack of understanding of freedom of speech. The history of this region is one of iron-fisted tyrannical government control, where the free expression of views regarding politics and religion will land you in prison or worse. That this film could have been produced in the United States without the tacit approval of our government is inconceivable to these people.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

I think the conflict is due to, as they say, a clash of cultures.In a way it could be said that it is the fault of this small world getting really TOO SMALL.

By that I mean the instant communication via the Internet has put everyone's culture right smack dab in everyone else's face.

For cultures like those in Afghanistan who are living in the stone age...they're not ready to even see the cultures of the West. Now, that's not an excuse whatsoever for the actions we're seeing today. I'm saying we need to get out of there.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

salinsky wrote: When poverty is rampant and information is limited, people are quick to latch onto any movement that they perceive as sympathetic to their oppression, even when it ultimately runs counter to their interests.
They turned to religious extremism in Iran because it was the only refuge from the repressive regime propped up by our own government.



Last edited by Bob on 9/17/2012, 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

salinsky wrote:There are three things that are fueling these protests.

The first is extremism. The extremist elements in the Muslim world have been marginalized to some extent by the arab spring. They have seized upon this movie as a way to regain some of their clout.

The second is poverty and ignorance. When poverty is rampant and information is limited, people are quick to latch onto any movement that they perceive as sympathetic to their oppression, even when it ultimately runs counter to their interests. The people in the streets are largely composed of unemployed and disaffected youths who haven't even seen the movie.

The third is a complete and utter lack of understanding of freedom of speech. The history of this region is one of iron-fisted tyrannical government control, where the free expression of views regarding politics and religion will land you in prison or worse. That this film could have been produced in the United States without the tacit approval of our government is inconceivable to these people.

I know they are poor countries with lots of unemployed youth, however they've never been anything but poor. It's like when you live in a pocket of poverty anywhere and the rest of the country is going gangbusters...if a recession comes along you never notice it because you weren't able to take part in the boom. It sort of passed your area by.

I've got the impression that most of these people live in dirt floored houses and have never known any different.
I think it looks like if they had more money they'd be shooting guns rather than throwing rocks?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Chrissy,

In the 1980s Saddam Hussein's allies were the U.S. and Britain.
This was because he was at war with Iran and the USA gave him naval support in the Gulf, shot down an Iranian airliner killing over 200 passengers and provided him with military intelligence from their AWACs flying from Saudi Arabia.
Britain was training his army and naval officers.
This was the time when he was using poison gas against the Kurds.

Do you start to get the picture? What if all this kind of shit had been happening in our country and it was helped by a foreign country? Would we love that foreign country? Would you love it?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I see you're down to -99, Sal. Looks like you're now running in third place behind Dreamsglore and me. lol

Yella

Yella

It all boils down to our need of their oil. We have become dependent on oil and without oil our civilization will crumble. I realize that what I am going to state is Monday morning quarterbacking but back in the seventies when the first oil crisis occurred was when this country should have started spending money on solar power research and development. By now we would have have harnessed the power of the sun but we didn't do it mainly because Big Oil crushed most efforts to explore and develop solar energy exactly as it is doing today. The Solendra failure was very conveniently blamed on Obama but I think anyone with a brain knows what caused the failure. The Oil Industry. Period. The huge Corporations work together and everything they do is for profit to the leaders. Trickle down is a ridiculous joke.

http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Yella wrote:It all boils down to our need of their oil. We have become dependent on oil and without oil our civilization will crumble. I realize that what I am going to state is Monday morning quarterbacking but back in the seventies when the first oil crisis occurred was when this country should have started spending money on solar power research and development. By now we would have have harnessed the power of the sun but we didn't do it mainly because Big Oil crushed most efforts to explore and develop solar energy exactly as it is doing today. The Solendra failure was very conveniently blamed on Obama but I think anyone with a brain knows what caused the failure. The Oil Industry. Period. The huge Corporations work together and everything they do is for profit to the leaders. Trickle down is a ridiculous joke.
Think if he had just taken a portion of the trillions we spent on Iraq and Afghanistan and instead used it on another "manhattan project" to find a practical alternative to imported oil.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


I watched a documentary on PBS recently. It wasn't about Muslims, though. It was about the Soviet Union, whose people were also oppressed...just for a different reason. I wonder how many people actually fell for Reagan's "tear down that wall". According to the doc, in which several Russians were interviewed, the single thing that most influenced the dissolution of the USSR and East Germany was...the Beatles.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

"The people are going to raise their voice to show we are not silent. With the last breath in our body we will be against those who are insulting to our religion and prophet,"... Hcnhdiqk

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:Chrissy,

In the 1980s Saddam Hussein's allies were the U.S. and Britain.
This was because he was at war with Iran and the USA gave him naval support in the Gulf, shot down an Iranian airliner killing over 200 passengers and provided him with military intelligence from their AWACs flying from Saudi Arabia.
Britain was training his army and naval officers.
This was the time when he was using poison gas against the Kurds.

Do you start to get the picture? What if all this kind of shit had been happening in our country and it was helped by a foreign country? Would we love that foreign country? Would you love it?

yes, I know about sadam, any others?

and if things were as bad as it is in those countries, I dont think us americans would wait around for some approval or help from another country. we would be taken the dictator out ourself. Why havnt they done that? Isit because they are as much of backward savages living in another century as thier leaders?

and then should we just say well, we were bad to them way back so its ok to act like this?

no, I say it is what it is today and we have to form our actions around what is going on today.

Now while we can certainly learn what not to do from failed policies such as proping up dictators. we still have to act on current events. Because at the end of the day, we are formost only concerned with our own welfare.

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