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SC Governor called out for ignoring calls to trash Confederate flag flying at Capital

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Markle
Joanimaroni
TEOTWAWKI
othershoe1030
2seaoat
KarlRove
Wordslinger
11 posters

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EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Or how about a little history from 1863 ...

"Rioters turned against black people as their scapegoats and the primary target of their anger. Many immigrants and other poor people viewed free black men as competition for scarce jobs, and worried about more slaves being emancipated and coming to New York for work.[8] The mob beat, tortured or killed numerous black people, including one man who was attacked by a crowd of 400 with clubs and paving stones, then lynched, hanged from a tree and set alight."

"Throughout the areas of rioting, mobs attacked and killed at least 11 black people, and destroyed their known homes and businesses, such as James McCune Smith's pharmacy at 93 West Broadway, believed to be the first owned by a black man in the United States.[8] Near the midtown docks, tensions brewing since the mid-1850s boiled over. As recently as March 1863, white employers had hired blacks, with whom Irish men refused to work, as longshoremen. An Irish mob attacked two hundred blacks who were working on the docks, while other rioters went into the streets in search of "all the negro porters, cartmen and laborers ..." to attempt to remove all evidence of a black and interracial social life from the area near the docks. White dockworkers attacked and destroyed brothels, dance halls, boarding houses, and tenements that catered to blacks. Mobs stripped the clothing off the white owners of these businesses"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Ever hear of the 1919 Chicago race riots?

No, Virginia ... racism in America was (and is today) not exclusive to the Southern States. (oh, and there is no Santa Clause .... despite what Anderson Cooper may tell you on CNN)

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Oh noe's!!!!   WDC has a race "history" too?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/2000/raceriot0301.htm


I'm tellin' ya guys ... it's not about the "Confederate flag" ... it's about a whole lot more than that.   Just ask any person of Japanese ancestry who lived on the west coast during WWII.

KKK in Inglewood, CA? Say it ain't so Louise! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_raid_%28Inglewood%29



Last edited by EmeraldGhost on 6/21/2015, 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest


Guest

EmeraldGhost wrote:Ever hear of the 1919 Chicago race riots?

No, Virginia ... racism in America was (and is today) not exclusive to the Southern States. (oh, and there is no Santa Clause .... despite what Anderson Cooper may tell you on CNN)

I'm sorry... but unless the media and their dear leaders tell them to become outraged... the affect is flat.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Duluth, MN .... 1919.   Look it up.

SC Governor called out for ignoring calls to trash Confederate flag flying at Capital - Page 2 Spot_858_1294

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Wordslinger wrote: .....
You dress up and take your girl or wife to a fine dinner at Jacksons, and some local asshole is there dining while wearing a camo vest and camo baseball hat.  No wonder southern men are so often referred to as cretins.  You want to look closer to see if he uses silverware ....


And ya know what?   That "redneck" in camo might be the first one to jump to your defense if you were suddenly mugged or otherwise assaulted, even if you are black or some other race/ethnicity.

He might be a veteran who served his country honorably. He might be a hardworking man trying to put his kids through college. He might be a firefighter, paramedic, or the guy who gets your power back on in the middle of stormy night.

Don't be such a snob.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Say when we get the confederate flag banned can we just keep going and get rid of crosses and stars of David Might as well pull down some statues of and burn some books by them racist founding fathers. Can we change the street names in southern towns named after confederate leaders. ?

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Joanimaroni wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
KarlRove wrote:Was it the flag or the Roof kid who did that shooting? Nuf said. Nice red herring though.

It is the attitude that the flag represents that supports actions like the shooting. The flag gives these people permission to think it is okay to shoot up people you don't like.


Really, it's the flag?

The fact that they see the flag flying over state buildings or in monuments LENDS LEGITIMACY to the types of thoughts people like the shooter had. It did not MAKE them do it. I was just another piece of the warped puzzle that is their thinking process.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

EmeraldGhost wrote:
Wordslinger wrote: .....
You dress up and take your girl or wife to a fine dinner at Jacksons, and some local asshole is there dining while wearing a camo vest and camo baseball hat.  No wonder southern men are so often referred to as cretins.  You want to look closer to see if he uses silverware ....


And ya know what?   That "redneck" in camo might be the first one to jump to your defense if you were suddenly mugged or otherwise assaulted, even if you are black or some other race/ethnicity.

He might be a veteran who served his country honorably.  He might be a hardworking man trying to put his kids through college.   He might be a firefighter, paramedic, or the guy who gets your power back on in the middle of stormy night.

Don't be such a snob.

I would say that the history of black people in this country from border to border and coast to coast is riddled with prejudice both legalized, institutionalized and by general societal attitudes.

Banning the battle flag of a defunct country that held up slavery as a necessary and good institution deserves no glorification. The fact that people died thinking they were defending themselves from Yankee aggression is not, in my opinion, reason to want to keep the flag flying.

Of course it can't be made illegal for reasons you stated. Free speech means especially freedom to say things others find distressing so that's obviously out. The reason we are discussing whether SC should remove its official endorsement of the flag, which is how I see the way they have it displayed at the moment, is of course because of the recent mass shooting. It turns attention to other things people are upset about so here we go again with the flag issue.

To me it seems to serve as a rallying point, a symbol of whites being better than people of color. It is a reminder of the lifestyle they hold in some regard.

Ironically it is unlikely that many who have battle flag front license plates or decals on their vehicles ever belonged to slave owning families. I'm guessing here about the slave holding family part but if this is the case I'd say the desired result has been achieved. That result is to divide working class people against each other so instead of the less fortunate banning together to better their position through better paying jobs etc. they are left fighting each other instead of the established order of things. It is so much more convenient for the PTB to have a divided disgruntled underclass than to have them united against the 1% or however you wish to name the people with the economic power in the world.

2seaoat



I have ancestors who fought for the confederacy living in Ga, and Al....and most of my remaining family is in Al.  None of my family has ever flown the confederate flag.  However, in a free country we can.  However, when government allows a flag of hate to be flown over state property, it is wrong.  The results here were not unexpected.

Guest


Guest

othershoe1030 wrote:
Joanimaroni wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
KarlRove wrote:Was it the flag or the Roof kid who did that shooting? Nuf said. Nice red herring though.

It is the attitude that the flag represents that supports actions like the shooting. The flag gives these people permission to think it is okay to shoot up people you don't like.


Really, it's the flag?

The fact that they see the flag flying over state buildings or in monuments LENDS LEGITIMACY to the types of thoughts people like the shooter had. It did not MAKE them do it. I was just another piece of the warped puzzle that is their thinking process.

SC Governor called out for ignoring calls to trash Confederate flag flying at Capital - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSflTa2Up8gIGhc4gEBYhnf0Ps2gumAlPMRsqqt92vGYJdAJcQC

Interesting... Now the progressives are demanding the removal of the Confederate flag from monuments like Appomattox and Antietam. Perhaps we should eliminate mention of the Civil War in the classrooms, ban any book that mentions the Civil War, eliminate any monument dedicated to the Civil War, etc, etc, etc,... All in keeping with the progressive agenda of eliminating anything that might be a symbol of hate from the histories.

*****FART*****
IN SAL's & BOARD's GENERAL DIRECTION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52wis_sLT1I

Smile

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

othershoe1030 wrote:

To me it seems to serve as a rallying point, a symbol of whites being better than people of color. It is a reminder of the lifestyle they hold in some regard.


To you.   Didja ever stop & think it might hold a different symbolism for a lot of other people?

If you don't like the Confederate flag ... don't fly it.  

If you don't like abortions ... don't have one.

If you don't like pot ... don't smoke it.

etc

Personally, were I a South Carolinian I might just vote against the State flying the Confederate flag as an official symbol ... but for different reasons than you would.  (and they probably will eventually)  I would not vote for a "ban" on private displays though .... that would be downright un-American and the antithesis of free-speech if you ask me.  But if the majority of folks in South Carolina still want the State to fly it  (and it is a huge part of that State's history), so be it.   As to people who wish to fly it or emblazon it upon their t-shirt or bumper-sticker ... I'd fight for their right to do that, whatever their motivation may be & whether I agreed or disagreed with that motivation.

Perhaps you could try looking at it this way ... as a symbol that says "never forget" the sordid history of slavery in South Carolina.    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" --- Santayana.

But I understand also that like many liberals & conservatives ... perhaps you are one who would rather have our society operate as a thought-police and erase/rewrite history that doesn't suit you?

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:I have ancestors who fought for the confederacy living in Ga, and Al....and most of my remaining family is in Al.  None of my family has ever flown the confederate flag.  However, in a free country we can.  However, when government allows a flag of hate to be flown over state property, it is wrong.  The results here were not unexpected.


SC Governor called out for ignoring calls to trash Confederate flag flying at Capital - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR53Lz3-jPLX6bl-oAvgy7eRcMyFElVG4i9pZ0x2r2w3sHNFwWx

What makes it a free country if people are not allowed to choose whether they wish to display an item on government/public property if the majority choose/vote to do so?

*****FART*****
IN SAL's & BOARD's GENERAL DIRECTION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384

Smile

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Can I still watch the Dukes of Hazard ?

Guest


Guest

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Can I still watch the Dukes of Hazard ?

SC Governor called out for ignoring calls to trash Confederate flag flying at Capital - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgPaH_KTwYoLqsFNxGQbq2zWVg_60nWzQIoxSn_CILJAS8iu81-Q

It shall be on the banned list soon mein herr.

*****SARCASTIC FART*****
IN SAL's & BOARD's GENERAL DIRECTION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf-HZz5Qv8E

Smile

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Emeraldghost: Thanks for the history lecture. I'm sure you're correct that the south isn't the only location for racism. Sure also there are good and decent people who live here. But the facts are, we're not discussing America, we're talking about the Rebel flag being displayed by the State of South Carolina, and we're discussing the murder of nine innocent church-goers in Charleston -- all of whom were murdered by a white, southern-born outspoken racist who is evidently infatuated with the Rebel flag. This young, white racist is hardly alone in his terrible rationale -- thousands of residents of his state applaud his actions. They too worship the hateful image of the Rebel flag.

The facts are, only a racist asshole would cherish a heritage that turn the stomachs of decent people everywhere. There are laws already on the books in South Carolina and elsewhere that limit hate speech. Ostensibly, our country still claims to cherish the idea that all men are created equal. Displaying the symbol of overt racism on state property certainly counters that concept, right?

Showing the rebel flag in any form is nothing less than hate speech.

Reality.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

EmeraldGhost wrote:
Wordslinger wrote: .....
You dress up and take your girl or wife to a fine dinner at Jacksons, and some local asshole is there dining while wearing a camo vest and camo baseball hat.  No wonder southern men are so often referred to as cretins.  You want to look closer to see if he uses silverware ....


And ya know what?   That "redneck" in camo might be the first one to jump to your defense if you were suddenly mugged or otherwise assaulted, even if you are black or some other race/ethnicity.

He might be a veteran who served his country honorably.  He might be a hardworking man trying to put his kids through college.   He might be a firefighter, paramedic, or the guy who gets your power back on in the middle of stormy night.

Don't be such a snob.

That redneck in camo might also be the guy who burns a cross on somebody's lawn in the middle of the night. Or a rapist, a torturer, or a child molester. He could also be working on a WMD in his garage. Get real. The issue is courtesy to others and good manners. Any asshole who wears a hat at a dinner table in a fancy restaurant is exactly what I labeled him: a cretin. The unwritten message such an individual sends by such costuming is: I'm a crude illiterate and proud of it. As for the redneck in the restaurant being a former soldier, in the Air Force we were taught to uncover when we entered a building.I can only assume it was the same for the other services.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Wordslinger wrote: ... There are laws already on the books in South Carolina and elsewhere that limit hate speech. ...


What law prohibits "hate speech?"

They have those in Europe, but not here in the USA?    "Hate crimes" .... yes we have those laws (which I personally disagree with) ... but "hate speech", nope, we don't have that.

Perhaps you'd be happier in Europe? Or North Korea, maybe?



Last edited by EmeraldGhost on 6/22/2015, 7:04 am; edited 1 time in total

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Wordslinger wrote:....

 Any asshole who wears a hat at a dinner table in a fancy restaurant is exactly what I labeled him:  a cretin. ....

Hater. Laughing

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" ---- Matt 7:3


2seaoat



The confederate flag is the taliban flag........the confederate flag is the Japanese flag........the confederate flag is the german flag...........it is the flag of a defeated enemy and it has NO business being on state property.  It is a symbol of hate.   The Nazi flag flying on the state capitol grounds makes as much sense.


Take the flag down.....it represents hate and cowardly terrorism, and the enemies of the United States.  I am putting up the American flag because now more than ever we need to identify the enemy within, and make no doubt these traitors and their ilk are the enemy of this great country.  These domestic terrorists have killed more than any muslim terrorism, and the dog whistle politics of the southern strategy has allowed the oligarchy to steal this great nation plying the hate, fear, and prejudice of that symbol of hate the confederate flag.

Guest


Guest

It shouldn't have been allowed to fly over state property after they lost the war anyway.

I'm not buying into all of the connotations and significance however... it's largely a contrived political outrage.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

[quote="EmeraldGhost"]
Wordslinger wrote:....

 Any asshole who wears a hat at a dinner table in a fancy restaurant is exactly what I labeled him:  a cretin.  ....

Hater.     Laughing

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" ---- Matt 7:3


Rednecks like the one I've described who wears a baseball cap at a dinner table in a fine restaurant are not people I actively hate. They simply disgust me. I'm sure that most of them are good, warm, considerate men, who can't help having affairs with their sisters.

boards of FL

boards of FL

EmeraldGhost wrote:To you.   Didja ever stop & think it might hold a different symbolism for a lot of other people?

If you don't like the Confederate flag ... don't fly it.  

If you don't like abortions ... don't have one.

If you don't like pot ... don't smoke it.

etc



The issue here is the flag being displayed over a government building. That is considerably different than an outright banning of the display of the flag in every context.

As a side note, the flag that we're all discussing isn't even the real confederate flag, nor was the flag that we're discussing every officially recognized by the confederate states of america in any way. The flag that we're talking about - "the rebel flag" - is an offshoot of that that became popular through the adoption and use by groups of racist assholes. There really is no legitimate defense of a flag like that being flown over a government building.

If they're going to use the "We're just acknowledging our history" defense, then they should at least get their history correct and fly the actual flag of the CSA rather than "the rebel flag".

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

EmeraldGhost wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:

To me it seems to serve as a rallying point, a symbol of whites being better than people of color. It is a reminder of the lifestyle they hold in some regard.


To you.   Didja ever stop & think it might hold a different symbolism for a lot of other people?

If you don't like the Confederate flag ... don't fly it.  

If you don't like abortions ... don't have one.

If you don't like pot ... don't smoke it.

etc

Personally, were I a South Carolinian I might just vote against the State flying the Confederate flag as an official symbol ... but for different reasons than you would.  (and they probably will eventually)  I would not vote for a "ban" on private displays though .... that would be downright un-American and the antithesis of free-speech if you ask me.  But if the majority of folks in South Carolina still want the State to fly it  (and it is a huge part of that State's history), so be it.   As to people who wish to fly it or emblazon it upon their t-shirt or bumper-sticker ... I'd fight for their right to do that, whatever their motivation may be & whether I agreed or disagreed with that motivation.

Perhaps you could try looking at it this way ... as a symbol that says "never forget" the sordid history of slavery in South Carolina.    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" --- Santayana.

But I understand also that like many liberals & conservatives ... perhaps you are one who would rather have our society operate as a thought-police and erase/rewrite history that doesn't suit you?

Of course it can't be made illegal for reasons you stated. Free speech means especially freedom to say things others find distressing so that's obviously out.

It is good you had an opportunity to vent, however you need to read more carefully. I specifically said we need to preserve freedom of speech so all your comments about thought-police are way off the mark.

I agree with your "if you don't like abortions don't have one", that's my position also but I'd add we need to focus on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies.

When it comes to the battle flag, in this instance, it is different because we are not talking about personal free speech but a state sanctioned action. Agreed, people who want it to be removed need to organize, register to vote and get the damn thing taken down. Of course the issue has to get on the ballot somehow and I don't know how that happens in SC. Vote it out, that's the only way I can see this happening.

Display your attitudes on t-shirts, bumper stickers and speak on talk shows but don't let the state stand behind that attitude.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

boards of FL wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:To you.   Didja ever stop & think it might hold a different symbolism for a lot of other people?

If you don't like the Confederate flag ... don't fly it.  

If you don't like abortions ... don't have one.

If you don't like pot ... don't smoke it.

etc



The issue here is the flag being displayed over a government building.  That is considerably different than an outright banning of the display of the flag in every context.

As a side note, the flag that we're all discussing isn't even the real confederate flag, nor was the flag that we're discussing every officially recognized by the confederate states of america in any way.  The flag that we're talking about - "the rebel flag" - is an offshoot of that that became popular through the adoption and use by groups of racist assholes.  There really is no legitimate defense of a flag like that being flown over a government building.  

If they're going to use the "We're just acknowledging our history" defense, then they should at least get their history correct and fly the actual flag of the CSA rather than "the rebel flag".

Excellent point. Real history is not their strong suit.

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