Obama says he's now committed to helping the middle class ...

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

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Join date : 2012-06-23
Location : Pace

And, while I have reservations, I hope he means it:

"Now we have to choose what we want that future to look like. Will we accept an economy where only a few of us do spectacularly well? Or will we commit ourselves to an economy that generates rising incomes and rising chances for everyone who makes the effort?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/obama-budget-middle-class-economics_b_6570948.html?ncid=newsltushpmg00000003

His opponents say that only the rich should rule and never pay any taxes.

And that the minimum wage should be eliminated.

It's good to know your enemies.

gatorfan

gatorfan

Posts : 1919
Join date : 2014-06-11

Wordslinger wrote:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/obama-budget-middle-class-economics_b_6570948.html?ncid=newsltushpmg00000003

His opponents say that only the rich should rule and never pay any taxes.

Who is that?

And that the minimum wage should be eliminated.

Really?

There is an improvement in the economy, job prospects are improving and it's amazing what a big decrease in gas prices can do for lower income workers - consumer spending is up and that benefits a large swath of the economy. Some increase in minimum wages should be looked at but I'm not qualified to say how much is enough before it impacts prices negating any benefit.

I guess HuffPo is going to have problems with the message because:

"Obama to Dems: 'Get informed, not by reading the Huffington Post'

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/231238-obama-tells-dems-to-keep-their-powder-dry-in-trade-fight

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

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I'm not a fan of the TPP.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

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Wordslinger wrote:And, while I have reservations, I hope he means it:

"Now we have to choose what we want that future to look like. Will we accept an economy where only a few of us do spectacularly well? Or will we commit ourselves to an economy that generates rising incomes and rising chances for everyone who makes the effort?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/obama-budget-middle-class-economics_b_6570948.html?ncid=newsltushpmg00000003

His opponents say that only the rich should rule and never pay any taxes.

And that the minimum wage should be eliminated.

It's good to know your enemies.

Exactly but now all of a sudden someone has sent all the GOP competitors a message telling them to say they are suddenly worried about the middle class slipping through the cracks.

I mean when I hear these folks speaking in Iowa I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the sound track on my TV. Am I really hearing those words coming out of the mouths of Republicans? It is so totally out of character and 180 degree turn from all their trickle down BS.

Surely it will even be difficult for ardent followers of their standard positions to make this transition to populism?
A wolf in sheep's clothing...

Guest

Guest

Populist?

" For each new class which puts itself in the place of one ruling before it, is compelled, merely in order to carry through its aim, to represent its interest as the common interest of all the members of society, that is, expressed in ideal form: it has to give its ideas the form of universality, and represent them as the only rational, universally valid ones."

Marx

Sal

Sal

Posts : 16311
Join date : 2012-06-13

You'll have to forgive Pkr.

He has a little trouble with defining terms.

In his view, there is absolute liberty and absolute tyranny with nothing in between.

So, anything else has to be crammed into one extreme or the other to conform to his perverted and juvenile view of the world.

boards of FL

boards of FL

Posts : 9062
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 45
Location : Pensacola, FL

Sal wrote:You'll have to forgive Pkr.

He has a little trouble with defining terms.

In his view, there is absolute liberty and absolute tyranny with nothing in between.

So, anything else has to be crammed into one extreme or the other to conform to his perverted and juvenile view of the world.

You're, like, a statist collectivist fascist communist socialist trickle-down sheeple, bra.

Sal

Sal

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Join date : 2012-06-13

boards of FL wrote:
You're, like, a statist collectivist fascist communist socialist trickle-down sheeple, bra.

Thank you for the compliment, comrade.

I'll see to it that there is an extra potato and handful of grain for you at the collective this evening.

Guest

Guest

I'm for individual liberty. I don't care what you collectivists call yourselves... don't tread on me.

Sal

Sal

Posts : 16311
Join date : 2012-06-13

PkrBum wrote:I'm for individual liberty. I don't care what you collectivists call yourselves... don't tread on me.

lmao

Thanks for the demonstration, John Galt.

Guest

Guest

I'm under no illusion that we are headed in the direction I choose. The ruling elite are all large govt interventionists.

" The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas." Marx

Guess what that makes y'all?

Sal

Sal

Posts : 16311
Join date : 2012-06-13

PkrBum wrote:I'm under no illusion that we are headed in the direction I choose. The ruling elite are all large govt interventionists.

" The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas." Marx

Guess what that makes y'all?

Bored ....

.... very, very bored.

Guess what that makes you?

KarlRove

KarlRove

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Join date : 2012-09-24

Obama is committed and should be committed

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

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PkrBum wrote:I'm for individual liberty. I don't care what you collectivists call yourselves... don't tread on me.

So how do you square the ideal of individual liberty with a society ruled by the rich few? How do you achieve individual liberty? Under what system? Are you advocating for anarchy?

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Posts : 8802
Join date : 2012-06-23
Location : Pace

othershoe1030 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I'm for individual liberty. I don't care what you collectivists call yourselves... don't tread on me.

So how do you square the ideal of individual liberty with a society ruled by the rich few? How do you achieve individual liberty? Under what system? Are you advocating for anarchy?

Great question!

Markle

Markle

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Join date : 2012-06-16
Age : 80
Location : Tallahassee

Wordslinger wrote:And, while I have reservations, I hope he means it:

"Now we have to choose what we want that future to look like. Will we accept an economy where only a few of us do spectacularly well? Or will we commit ourselves to an economy that generates rising incomes and rising chances for everyone who makes the effort?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/obama-budget-middle-class-economics_b_6570948.html?ncid=newsltushpmg00000003

His opponents say that only the rich should rule and never pay any taxes.

And that the minimum wage should be eliminated.

It's good to know your enemies.

How has that worked out over the past six years?

Your first statement is a lie you believe in your own mind.

Yes, the minimum wage should be eliminated.

Investing 7/28/2013 @ 2:32PM 27,857 views

Barack Obama Has Been Talking About Helping The Middle Class Since 2008

The President promised the New York Times he would talk about jobs, the economy, and the middle class once a week for the remainder of 2013. But, just talking won’t create jobs, grow the economy or strengthen the middle class. No; what Obama needs today is a bold fiscal policy of stimulus that will by dint of spending create jobs, raise median take-home pay and bulwark the middle class. And he probably can’t do that unless he gets closer to balancing the budget deficit.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2013/07/28/barack-obama-is-no-franklin-roosevelt/

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Posts : 8802
Join date : 2012-06-23
Location : Pace

Markle wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:And, while I have reservations, I hope he means it:

"Now we have to choose what we want that future to look like. Will we accept an economy where only a few of us do spectacularly well? Or will we commit ourselves to an economy that generates rising incomes and rising chances for everyone who makes the effort?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/obama-budget-middle-class-economics_b_6570948.html?ncid=newsltushpmg00000003

His opponents say that only the rich should rule and never pay any taxes.

And that the minimum wage should be eliminated.

It's good to know your enemies.

How has that worked out over the past six years?

Your first statement is a lie you believe in your own mind.

No booby, it's my colon you're looking around, not my head.

Yes, the minimum wage should be eliminated.

Investing 7/28/2013 @ 2:32PM 27,857 views

Barack Obama Has Been Talking About Helping The Middle Class Since 2008

The President promised the New York Times he would talk about jobs, the economy, and the middle class once a week for the remainder of 2013. But, just talking won’t create jobs, grow the economy or strengthen the middle class. No; what Obama needs today is a bold fiscal policy of stimulus that will by dint of spending create jobs, raise median take-home pay and bulwark the middle class. And he probably can’t do that unless he gets closer to balancing the budget deficit.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2013/07/28/barack-obama-is-no-franklin-roosevelt/

Screw Amerika Inc.! Corporate control of our government through campaign financing.

Guest

Guest

Wordslinger wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I'm for individual liberty. I don't care what you collectivists call yourselves... don't tread on me.

So how do you square the ideal of individual liberty with a society ruled by the rich few? How do you achieve individual liberty? Under what system? Are you advocating for anarchy?

Great question!

Our constitution was constructed to protect the individual's rights. What today can be rationalized to protect the masses or for a greater good is not constitutional when applied to an individual. Take the metadata for instance... would it be legal to apply a warrantless search and collection of data to one person? No... but throw in a muddled rational to protect all and the individual is trampled. Our rights and liberties are strongest when applied to an individual level... not at a collectivist level.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

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Join date : 2012-06-23
Location : Pace

PkrBum wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I'm for individual liberty. I don't care what you collectivists call yourselves... don't tread on me.

So how do you square the ideal of individual liberty with a society ruled by the rich few? How do you achieve individual liberty? Under what system? Are you advocating for anarchy?

Great question!

Our constitution was constructed to protect the individual's rights. What today can be rationalized to protect the masses or for a greater good is not constitutional when applied to an individual. Take the metadata for instance... would it be legal to apply a warrantless search and collection of data to one person? No... but throw in a muddled rational to protect all and the individual is trampled. Our rights and liberties are strongest when applied to an individual level... not at a collectivist level.

What comic book are you relying upon for your history? Our Constitution was created by the rich, for the rich and of the rich. Then as time went by it was modified to suit the needs of the day. At first, only a white male who owned property could vote.

You don't like the current rash of NSA and other digital surveillance of us all, protected by the Patriot Act and other security crapola? We agree on something. But it's clear you think it's perfectly okay and proper for 1% of the American population to control 50% of the total cash, and then invest some of the money to buy elections.

Screw Amerika Inc.! Corporate control of our government through campaign financing.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Posts : 4510
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 78
Location : Gulfport/New Orleans

PkrBum wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I'm for individual liberty. I don't care what you collectivists call yourselves... don't tread on me.

So how do you square the ideal of individual liberty with a society ruled by the rich few? How do you achieve individual liberty? Under what system? Are you advocating for anarchy?

Great question!

Our constitution was constructed to protect the individual's rights. What today can be rationalized to protect the masses or for a greater good is not constitutional when applied to an individual. Take the metadata for instance... would it be legal to apply a warrantless search and collection of data to one person? No... but throw in a muddled rational to protect all and the individual is trampled. Our rights and liberties are strongest when applied to an individual level... not at a collectivist level.

How do you protect an individual without protecting the whole? I don't see how this is possible.

But getting back to who rules the country how do you see the nearly total control over the electoral process by the rich few? Right now freedom of speech looks like an individual right protected by the Constitution with an asterisk noting "individual freedom of speech times or validated by however much $$$$$$$ you are able to control. It is mind boggling.

So, how do you get away from the influence of money in the system and back to individual liberty? Money has always been a deciding factor in political activity but now it is just gone off the rails with the absurd Citizens United ruling.

The individual has been crushed as you observe but it wasn't by the collectivists it was at the hands of the top dogs, the 1%er's, the oligarchs. This cannot be disputed as far as I can see because those are the groups in the driver's seat. They are calling the shots in the tax code and in the free speech = money rulings etc.

How do you see it?

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Posts : 4510
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 78
Location : Gulfport/New Orleans

PkrBum wrote:I'm under no illusion that we are headed in the direction I choose. The ruling elite are all large govt interventionists.

" The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas." Marx

Guess what that makes y'all?

Doesn't the French Revolution disprove this idea held by Marx? The people who were not in control of the means of production nevertheless had control over the means of mental production and overthrew the old system, right?

I think these days the geeks and nerds may save liberty by having control over the means of mental production.

Guest

Guest

Wordslinger wrote:

PkrBum wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I'm for individual liberty. I don't care what you collectivists call yourselves... don't tread on me.

So how do you square the ideal of individual liberty with a society ruled by the rich few? How do you achieve individual liberty? Under what system? Are you advocating for anarchy?

Great question!

Our constitution was constructed to protect the individual's rights. What today can be rationalized to protect the masses or for a greater good is not constitutional when applied to an individual. Take the metadata for instance... would it be legal to apply a warrantless search and collection of data to one person? No... but throw in a muddled rational to protect all and the individual is trampled. Our rights and liberties are strongest when applied to an individual level... not at a collectivist level.

What comic book are you relying upon for your history? Our Constitution was created by the rich, for the rich and of the rich. Then as time went by it was modified to suit the needs of the day. At first, only a white male who owned property could vote.

You don't like the current rash of NSA and other digital surveillance of us all, protected by the Patriot Act and other security crapola? We agree on something. But it's clear you think it's perfectly okay and proper for 1% of the American population to control 50% of the total cash, and then invest some of the money to buy elections.

Screw Amerika Inc.! Corporate control of our government through campaign financing.

Obama says he's now committed to helping the middle class ... Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkbANLyTbC_ooEPZOqOGWS2YqHrgsid-FZBhCDBx9gXtnLPukXpg

What makes you think that the rich have not always been in charge since the dawn of mankind?

Your perception of history and the wealthy/powerful not being in control is amusing at best in it's childish naivety.

The most we can hope for is an attempt at balancing it so that the poor and middle class are not completely stomped on. However this new generation of leaders have shown that the supposed morals and ethics that are almost mandatorily taught in colleges today have little to no meaning to them when it comes to supporting some agenda that is supposedly progressive.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc

Smile

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Posts : 4510
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Age : 78
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Damaged Eagle wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

PkrBum wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I'm for individual liberty. I don't care what you collectivists call yourselves... don't tread on me.

So how do you square the ideal of individual liberty with a society ruled by the rich few? How do you achieve individual liberty? Under what system? Are you advocating for anarchy?

Great question!

Our constitution was constructed to protect the individual's rights. What today can be rationalized to protect the masses or for a greater good is not constitutional when applied to an individual. Take the metadata for instance... would it be legal to apply a warrantless search and collection of data to one person? No... but throw in a muddled rational to protect all and the individual is trampled. Our rights and liberties are strongest when applied to an individual level... not at a collectivist level.

What comic book are you relying upon for your history? Our Constitution was created by the rich, for the rich and of the rich. Then as time went by it was modified to suit the needs of the day. At first, only a white male who owned property could vote.

You don't like the current rash of NSA and other digital surveillance of us all, protected by the Patriot Act and other security crapola? We agree on something. But it's clear you think it's perfectly okay and proper for 1% of the American population to control 50% of the total cash, and then invest some of the money to buy elections.

Screw Amerika Inc.! Corporate control of our government through campaign financing.

What makes you think that the rich have not always been in charge since the dawn of mankind?

Your perception of history and the wealthy/powerful not being in control is amusing at best in it's childish naivety.

The most we can hope for is an attempt at balancing it so that the poor and middle class are not completely stomped on. However this new generation of leaders have shown that the supposed morals and ethics that are almost mandatorily taught in colleges today have little to no meaning to them when it comes to supporting some agenda that is supposedly progressive.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc

Of course the rich have always, throughout history wielded the power, this is not a news flash. Which new generation of leaders are you referring to? What ethics are you referring to? and how does this connect to the rich? and how does it relate to a progressive agenda?

Guest

Guest

othershoe1030 wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

What makes you think that the rich have not always been in charge since the dawn of mankind?

Your perception of history and the wealthy/powerful not being in control is amusing at best in it's childish naivety.

The most we can hope for is an attempt at balancing it so that the poor and middle class are not completely stomped on. However this new generation of leaders have shown that the supposed morals and ethics that are almost mandatorily taught in colleges today have little to no meaning to them when it comes to supporting some agenda that is supposedly progressive.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc

Of course the rich have always, throughout history wielded the power, this is not a news flash.

Obviously it is to the person I was talking too.

othershoe1030 wrote:Which new generation of leaders are you referring to? What ethics are you referring to? and how does this connect to the rich? and how does it relate to a progressive agenda?

Why should I respond to any of your questions when you and others avoid responding to mine? After all if you disagree with me or any other moderate or conservative on the forum you and your little group of friends are just going to tell us how stupid we are, how we don't understand, how we have no reading comprehension, etc...

So instead you can take that last sentence and apply it to yourself.

Obama says he's now committed to helping the middle class ... Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgJhsiNK3vDrc3BbG8dmqO93erttAmk1DPO5aLVexoOE7ywpX8

Obama says he's now committed to helping the middle class ... Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgJhsiNK3vDrc3BbG8dmqO93erttAmk1DPO5aLVexoOE7ywpX8

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMnNAGLAc_w

Smile

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Posts : 8802
Join date : 2012-06-23
Location : Pace

othershoe1030 wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

PkrBum wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I'm for individual liberty. I don't care what you collectivists call yourselves... don't tread on me.

So how do you square the ideal of individual liberty with a society ruled by the rich few? How do you achieve individual liberty? Under what system? Are you advocating for anarchy?

Great question!

Our constitution was constructed to protect the individual's rights. What today can be rationalized to protect the masses or for a greater good is not constitutional when applied to an individual. Take the metadata for instance... would it be legal to apply a warrantless search and collection of data to one person? No... but throw in a muddled rational to protect all and the individual is trampled. Our rights and liberties are strongest when applied to an individual level... not at a collectivist level.

What comic book are you relying upon for your history? Our Constitution was created by the rich, for the rich and of the rich. Then as time went by it was modified to suit the needs of the day. At first, only a white male who owned property could vote.

You don't like the current rash of NSA and other digital surveillance of us all, protected by the Patriot Act and other security crapola? We agree on something. But it's clear you think it's perfectly okay and proper for 1% of the American population to control 50% of the total cash, and then invest some of the money to buy elections.

Screw Amerika Inc.! Corporate control of our government through campaign financing.

What makes you think that the rich have not always been in charge since the dawn of mankind? Show me where I said otherwise ...

Your perception of history and the wealthy/powerful not being in control is amusing at best in it's childish naivety.

The most we can hope for is an attempt at balancing it so that the poor and middle class are not completely stomped on. However this new generation of leaders have shown that the supposed morals and ethics that are almost mandatorily taught in colleges today have little to no meaning to them when it comes to supporting some agenda that is supposedly progressive.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc

Of course the rich have always, throughout history wielded the power, this is not a news flash. Which new generation of leaders are you referring to? What ethics are you referring to? and how does this connect to the rich? and how does it relate to a progressive agenda?

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