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No to the Keystone XL

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2seaoat
Floridatexan
6 posters

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1No to the Keystone XL Empty No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 10:16 am

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


http://tarsandsaction.org/spread-the-word/key-facts-keystone-xl/

Energy Security: Tar Sand will not Reduce Dependence on Foreign Oil

Keystone XL will not lessen U.S. dependence on foreign oil, but transport Canadian oil to American refineries for export to overseas markets.
Keystone XL is an export pipeline. According to presentations to investors, Gulf Coast refiners plan to refine the cheap Canadian crude supplied by the pipeline into diesel and other products for export to Europe and Latin America. Proceeds from these exports are earned tax-free. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers’ tanks.
Reducing demand for oil is the best way to improve our energy security. U.S. demand for oil has been declining since 2007. New fuel-efficiency standards mean that this trend will continue once the economy gets back on track. In fact, the Energy Deptartment report on KeystoneXL found that decreasing demand through fuel efficiency is the only way to reduce mid-east oil imports with or without the pipeline.
More info:
“Exporting Energy Security: Keystone XL Exposed”, Oil Change International

Gas prices: Keystone XL will increase gas prices for Americans—Especially Farmers

By draining Midwestern refineries of cheap Canadian crude into export-oriented refineries in the Gulf Coast, Keystone XL will increase the cost of gas for Americans.
TransCanada’s 2008 Permit Application states “Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II [U.S. Midwest], are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil. Access to the USGC [U.S. Gulf Coast] via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in [the Midwest] by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude. The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.”
Independent analysis of these figures found this would increase per-gallon prices by 20 cents/gallon in the Midwest.
According to an independent analysis U.S. farmers, who spent $12.4 billion on fuel in 2009 could see expenses rise to $15 billion or higher in 2012 or 2013 if the pipeline goes through. At least $500 million of the added expense would come from the Canadian market manipulation.
More information:
“Tar Sands Oil Means High Gas Prices” Corporate Ethics International
“Pipeline Profiteering” National Wildlife Federation

Jobs: TransCanada’s jobs projections are vastly inflated.

In 2008, TransCanada’s Presidential Permit application for Keystone XL to the State Department indicated “a peak workforce of approximately 3,500 to 4,200 construction personnel” to build the pipeline.
Jobs estimates above those listed in its application draw from a 2011 report commissioned by TransCanada that estimates 20,000 “person-years” of employment based on a non-public forecast model using undisclosed inputs provided by TransCanada.
According to TransCanada’s own data, just 11% of the construction jobs on the Keystone I pipeline in South Dakota were filled by South Dakotans–most of them for temporary, low-paying manual labor.
Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU) and the Transport Workers Union (TWU) both oppose the pipeline. Their August 2011 statement: “We need jobs, but not ones based on increasing our reliance on Tar Sands oil. There is no shortage of water and sewage pipelines that need to be fixed or replaced, bridges and tunnels that are in need of emergency repair, transportation infrastructure that needs to be renewed and developed. Many jobs could also be created in energy conservation, upgrading the grid, maintaining and expanding public transportation—jobs that can help us reduce air pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, and improve energy efficiency.”
More Information:
“Transcanada’s Exaggerated Jobs Claims for KeystoneXL” National Wildlife Federation

Safety: A rupture in the Keystone XL pipeline could cause a BP style oil spill in America’s heartland, over the source of fresh drinking water for 2 million people.

NASA’s top climate scientist says that fully developing the tar sands in Canada would mean “essentially game over” for the climate.
The U.S. Pipeline Safety Administration has not yet conducted an in depth analysis of the safety of diluted bitumen (raw tar sands) pipeline, despite unique safety concerns posed by its more corrosive properties.
TransCanada predicted that the Keystone I pipeline would see one spill in 7 years. In fact, there have been 12 spills in 1 year. The company was ordered to dig up 10 sections of pipe after government-ordered tests indicated that defective steel may have been used. KeystoneXL will use steel from the same Indian manufacturer.
Keystone XL will cross through America’s agricultural heartland, the Missouri and Niobrara Rivers, the Ogallala aquifer, sage grouse habitat, walleye fisheries and more.
The agency was not adequately accounting for threats to wildlife, increased pollution in distressed communities where the crude may be refined, or increases in carbon emissions that would exacerbate climate change, and a variety of other issues.
More Information
“Tar Sands Pipeline Safety Risks”, National Wildlife Federation, NRDC, Others.
“On Shore Oil Disasters”, National Wildlife Federation
“Analysis of Frequency, Magnitude and Consequence of Worst-Case Spills From the Proposed Keystone XL Pipeline” John Stansbury, Ph.D., P.E.
“Pipeline “Safety Conditions” are Smoke and Mirrors”, NRDC
Climate Change: Keystone XL is the fuse to North America’s biggest carbon bomb.
In a study funded by the Rockefeller Foundation, a group of retired four-star generals and admirals concluded that climate change, if not addressed, will be the greatest threat to national security.
The State Department Environmental Impact Statement fails to adequately analyze lifecycle greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions caused by the pipeline. Extraction and refinement of oil sands are more GHG-intensive compared to conventional oil. The EIS estimates that the additional annual GHG emissions from the proposed pipeline could range from an additional “12-23 million metric tons of CO2 equivalent… (roughly the equivalent of annual emissions from 2 to 4 coal-fired power plants)” over conventional crude oil from the Middle East. [8] The EPA believes that the methodology used by the State Department is inaccurate and could underestimate GHG emissions by as much as 20 percent.[9] Given that the expected lifetime of the Keystone XL pipeline is fifty years, the EPA notes that the project could yield an extra 1.15 billion tons of GHGs using the quantitative estimates in the EIS.[10]

*************

It seems the US is taking all the risks involved with this pipeline while accruing very little benefit (if any). Where is the "win" for the United States?

2No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 10:25 am

2seaoat



Let me tell you that most of your claims have some validity, but they are vastly inflated. The pipeline will not raise midwest gas prices by 20 cents. Every credible source I have seen say that they will raise them by two cents. Also, pipelines are far more safe transporting oil than any other method. The biggest fish kill in Illinois history happened from clean fuel ethanol where a fifty four tanker car train spilled the entire contents into local rivers to create a huge environmental disaster which five years later is just now beginning to recover. All the while that dirty oil has safely been going to Illinois refineries without incident. The pipeline should be approved if the local people approve the route.

3No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 10:50 am

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


I am not aware of any Canadian oil being imported to Illinois refineries. You may be talking about the oil from the Bakken formation in North Dakota, parts of Montana and Colorado. This is NOT tar sands oil, which is much more environmentally harmful to extract and extremely corrosive. Then there is the issue of eminent domain...property owners in the path of the proposed pipeline have vigorously protested. TransCanada has a less than stellar safety record. I am very aware of the situation because my daughter is engaged in verifying mineral rights in the Bakken. Again, the US would be accepting the bulk of the risk and receiving little, if any, benefit. The people living around the Texas refineries don't want the pipeline either. They're already overburdened by existing pollution.

4No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 10:59 am

Guest


Guest

Another hogwash SCAREDY CAT story (as Seaoat would say). How about jobs for AMERICANS FT? I know your working days are over, but what about the generation graduating right now who don't have a freakin' job due to Obama's poor economic decisions? There will be a LOT of maintenance and upkeep on this pipeline and we can help America economically with these jobs which will not be of the lower end pay scale ( much of the current Obama jobs are entry level that BOF brags about ). Saying NO is a job killer and an economic stab in the back.

5No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 11:05 am

Guest


Guest

If the pubs have any sense the keystone bill should be on the president's desk by the afternoon of their first day.

6No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 12:04 pm

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Another hogwash SCAREDY CAT story (as Seaoat would say). How about jobs for AMERICANS FT? I know your working days are over, but what about the generation graduating right now who don't have a freakin' job due to Obama's poor economic decisions? There will be a LOT of maintenance and upkeep on this pipeline and we can help America economically with these jobs which will not be of the lower end pay scale ( much of the current Obama jobs are entry level that BOF brags about ). Saying NO is a job killer and an economic stab in the back.

I am very much concerned about the future of jobs in this country, and I sincerely doubt my working days are over.  I just have some health issues to address.  My children are millennials; right now both of them are doing fine in the job market.  I just don't think the tradeoff is worth the price.  My BIL worked on a massive solar installation on the border between Arizona and California last year.  I think he's on a similar project now in Nebraska.  The oil & gas companies lobbied against solar and wind initiatives, for obvious reasons, or we would have had much more vigorous alternative energy solutions over the past 40 years.  Now we have to play catch up.  There's no reason to destroy the environment we're planning to leave to our children and grandchildren (yes, I have those, too.)

It's stupid to think that I don't have the best interests of my children and grandchildren in mind...when I do everything.

7No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 12:14 pm

Sal

Sal

Tar sands extraction is an expensive process.

Plummeting oil prices are fucking up their business model.

8No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 1:09 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

The plummeting oil prices are a temporary phenomena. There is a "Gas War" of sorts taking place, with Saudi Arabia and OPEC producing a glut in order to drive-down prices to make things difficult for American Energy producers. The real facts are that Saudi Arabia is extremely worried that American shale-oil production will diminish their own market share.

Saudi Arabia is in a hopeless conundrum. Their reserves are vastly inflated, and rapidly depleting. This, combined with consumption that grows each year among their own population, has them worried that they one day will have no oil to export.

The price of oil will return to the $100 per barrel level once the OPEC nations, including Saudi Arabia, blink because their revenues from oil-sales take too big of a hit.

The price drop has had some marginal effect on American production, but not too bad thus far overall. If it drops below $70 per barrel, you will see some American producers start taking production off line until the price returns to a more profitable level.

As per the Athabasca oil sands in Alberta, nothing is going to stop the Canadians from extracting all 175 billion barrels of recoverable bitumen. Extracted bitumen will continue to be shipped to American refineries, by either rail or pipeline. If Keystone XL is built, the more risky mode of shipment (rail) can be somewhat curtailed. I would venture to say that the GOP will find a way to push final approval of the pipeline through.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

9No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 2:38 pm

2seaoat



I am not aware of any Canadian oil being imported to Illinois refineries. You may be talking about the oil from the Bakken formation in North Dakota

The first leg of the dirty Canadian oil has been running through Illinois to Illinois refineries for over five years without incident. How do you think they make the analysis of increased prices. If the second leg of the keystone is completed, the midwest refineries will have less oil and the two cent increase in price is projected. Sorry, 1/2 of the pipeline is already installed without protest or incident. I am for the second leg, because the environmental arguments are insane after having seen what a tanker train did to Illinois fish. There is no comparison to the safety issues. If you doubt the truth I have just given you.....google the keystone pipeline.......the first phase is installed and the oil is being refined.

10No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 2:52 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

2seaoat wrote:I am not aware of any Canadian oil being imported to Illinois refineries. You may be talking about the oil from the Bakken formation in North Dakota

The first leg of the dirty Canadian oil has been running through Illinois to Illinois refineries for over five years without incident.  How do you think they make the analysis of increased prices.   If the second leg of the keystone is completed, the midwest refineries will have less oil and the two cent increase in price is projected.   Sorry, 1/2 of the pipeline is already installed without protest or incident.   I am for the second leg, because the environmental arguments are insane after having seen what a tanker train did to Illinois fish.   There is no comparison to the safety issues.  If you doubt the truth I have just given you.....google the keystone pipeline.......the first phase is installed and the oil is being refined.

The environmental arguments are mostly being driven by climate change activists..... The most radical of that bunch want no petroleum development at all.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

11No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 3:04 pm

Guest


Guest

I think obama might sign a keystone bill... very late on a friday afternoon.

12No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 4:17 pm

knothead

knothead

My view is more aligned with FT but believe Obama will most likely sign off on it as a token gesture of cooperation with the GOP. The fears expressed by Mr. Oats and others regarding the risk of rail transport are certainly legitimate ones but can be mitigated with hardening of the design of the tanker cars which would also be expensive. The jobs lost on the rails will be good high paying jobs and exchanged for an unknown quantity of average paying jobs to maintain and service the pipeline. The projected number of these potential jobs vary greatly depending on the source and primarily driven by partisan positions which make it very difficult to know the truth. My bottom line is in agreement with FT and that is the risk is too high and the benefits are minimal for America

13No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 4:53 pm

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Here is an interesting perspective from HuffPo Canada. It appears they want to refine their own oil. So, the people are losing on both sides of the border...the US gets the risk of massive spills, and the Canadians lose the refining jobs. Maybe it is all about controlling the price internationally, with no consideration whatever for borders or allegiance to country. It's been reported that the real reason for the Iraq invasion was not the oil itself but preventing a "glut" in the market. Saddam was cash poor after multiple wars.



http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/23/canada-oil-refineries_n_1539701.html

14No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 4:58 pm

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

knothead wrote:My view is more aligned with FT but believe Obama will most likely sign off on it as a token gesture of cooperation with the GOP.  The fears expressed by Mr. Oats and others regarding the risk of rail transport are certainly legitimate ones but can be mitigated with hardening of the design of the tanker cars which would also be expensive.  The jobs lost on the rails will be good high paying jobs and exchanged for an unknown quantity of average paying jobs to maintain and service the pipeline.  The projected number of these potential jobs vary greatly depending on the source and primarily driven by partisan positions which make it very difficult to know the truth.  My bottom line is in agreement with FT and that is the risk is too high and the benefits are minimal for America  

It is my understanding that the tanker cars are being hardened for the Bakken oil. It just seems this move is being pushed by the interested parties in the US, like the Koch brothers (who were caught stealing oil from the Indian reservations), like Warren Buffet (who owns the rail lines) and all the major oil companies based in the US. Plus, I read on one site that British Columbia doesn't have the deep water ports for the barges...and they're dealing with a backlash from the Indian reservations and communities across Canada that a pipeline would have to cross. I see no reason whatever to build a pipeline across the US for a Canadian company (or for the oil barons in either country).

15No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 5:46 pm

Guest


Guest

Gotta have it

16No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 9:20 pm

knothead

knothead

Floridatexan wrote:
knothead wrote:My view is more aligned with FT but believe Obama will most likely sign off on it as a token gesture of cooperation with the GOP.  The fears expressed by Mr. Oats and others regarding the risk of rail transport are certainly legitimate ones but can be mitigated with hardening of the design of the tanker cars which would also be expensive.  The jobs lost on the rails will be good high paying jobs and exchanged for an unknown quantity of average paying jobs to maintain and service the pipeline.  The projected number of these potential jobs vary greatly depending on the source and primarily driven by partisan positions which make it very difficult to know the truth.  My bottom line is in agreement with FT and that is the risk is too high and the benefits are minimal for America  

It is my understanding that the tanker cars are being hardened for the Bakken oil.  It just seems this move is being pushed by the interested parties in the US, like the Koch brothers (who were caught stealing oil from the Indian reservations), like Warren Buffet (who owns the rail lines) and all the major oil companies based in the US.  Plus, I read on one site that British Columbia doesn't have the deep water ports for the barges...and they're dealing with a backlash from the Indian reservations and communities across Canada that a pipeline would have to cross.  I see no reason whatever to build a pipeline across the US for a Canadian company (or for the oil barons in either country).  

I haven't devoted any time researching the precise issue of making the cars safer in derailments but I would think the FRA would possibly be issuing an order requiring those retrofits. I do know that the FRA in years past issued requirements to install head shields and interlocking couplers to prevent disengagement during derailment and puncturing adjacent cars. These requirements applied to cars carrying dangerous chemicals such as LPG as an example have greatly improved the transport of haz mat and I feel confident the same will be applied for the tar sands product in question here.

17No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 10:39 pm

2seaoat



I sent photos to local tv stations from the fish kill caused by a tanker derailment. It was the worse environmental spill I had seen in my lifetime. This is nothing to fool around with. Pipelines are not perfect, but they convey far more product safely than trucks and rail.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jul2009/2009-07-06-093.asp

18No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/10/2014, 11:45 pm

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:I sent photos to local tv stations from the fish kill caused by a tanker derailment.   It was the worse environmental spill I had seen in my lifetime.  This is nothing to fool around with.  Pipelines are not perfect, but they convey far more product safely than trucks and rail.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jul2009/2009-07-06-093.asp

sCAREdy CaT!!!

19No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/11/2014, 2:15 am

Markle

Markle

Floridatexan wrote:
http://tarsandsaction.org/spread-the-word/key-facts-keystone-xl/

Energy Security: Tar Sand will not Reduce Dependence on Foreign Oil

Keystone XL will not lessen U.S. dependence on foreign oil, but transport Canadian oil to American refineries for export to overseas markets.
Keystone XL is an export pipeline. According to presentations to investors, Gulf Coast refiners plan to refine the cheap Canadian crude supplied by the pipeline into diesel and other products for export to Europe and Latin America. Proceeds from these exports are earned tax-free. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers’ tanks.
Reducing demand for oil is the best way to improve our energy security. U.S. demand for oil has been declining since 2007.  New fuel-efficiency standards mean that this trend will continue once the economy gets back on track. In fact, the Energy Deptartment report on KeystoneXL found that decreasing demand through fuel efficiency is the only way to reduce mid-east oil imports with or without the pipeline.
More info:
“Exporting Energy Security: Keystone XL Exposed”, Oil Change International

Gas prices: Keystone XL will increase gas prices for Americans—Especially Farmers

By draining Midwestern refineries of cheap Canadian crude into export-oriented refineries in the Gulf Coast, Keystone XL will increase the cost of gas for Americans.
TransCanada’s 2008 Permit Application states “Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II [U.S. Midwest], are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil. Access to the USGC [U.S. Gulf Coast] via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in [the Midwest] by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude. The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.”
Independent analysis of these figures found this would increase per-gallon prices by 20 cents/gallon in the Midwest.
According to an independent analysis U.S. farmers, who spent $12.4 billion on fuel in 2009 could see expenses rise to $15 billion or higher in 2012 or 2013 if the pipeline goes through. At least $500 million of the added expense would come from the Canadian market manipulation.
More information:
“Tar Sands Oil Means High Gas Prices” Corporate Ethics International
“Pipeline Profiteering” National Wildlife Federation

Jobs: TransCanada’s jobs projections are vastly inflated.

In 2008, TransCanada’s Presidential Permit application for Keystone XL to the State Department indicated “a peak workforce of approximately 3,500 to 4,200 construction personnel” to build the pipeline.
Jobs estimates above those listed in its application draw from a 2011 report commissioned by TransCanada that estimates 20,000 “person-years” of employment based on a non-public forecast model using undisclosed inputs provided by TransCanada.
According to TransCanada’s own data, just 11% of the construction jobs on the Keystone I pipeline in South Dakota were filled by South Dakotans–most of them for temporary, low-paying manual labor.
Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU) and the Transport Workers Union (TWU) both oppose the pipeline. Their August 2011 statement: “We need jobs, but not ones based on increasing our reliance on Tar Sands oil. There is no shortage of water and sewage pipelines that need to be fixed or replaced, bridges and tunnels that are in need of emergency repair, transportation infrastructure that needs to be renewed and developed. Many jobs could also be created in energy conservation, upgrading the grid, maintaining and expanding public transportation—jobs that can help us reduce air pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, and improve energy efficiency.”
More Information:
“Transcanada’s Exaggerated Jobs Claims for KeystoneXL” National Wildlife Federation

Safety: A rupture in the Keystone XL pipeline could cause a BP style oil spill in America’s heartland, over the source of fresh drinking water for 2 million people.

NASA’s top climate scientist says that fully developing the tar sands in Canada would mean “essentially game over” for the climate.
The U.S. Pipeline Safety Administration has not yet conducted an in depth analysis of the safety of diluted bitumen (raw tar sands) pipeline, despite unique safety concerns posed by its more corrosive properties.
TransCanada predicted that the Keystone I pipeline would see one spill in 7 years. In fact, there have been 12 spills in 1 year. The company was ordered to dig up 10 sections of pipe after government-ordered tests indicated that defective steel may have been used. KeystoneXL will use steel from the same Indian manufacturer.
Keystone XL will cross through America’s agricultural heartland, the Missouri and Niobrara Rivers, the Ogallala aquifer, sage grouse habitat, walleye fisheries and more.
The agency was not adequately accounting for threats to wildlife, increased pollution in distressed communities where the crude may be refined, or increases in carbon emissions that would exacerbate climate change, and a variety of other issues.
More Information
“Tar Sands Pipeline Safety Risks”, National Wildlife Federation, NRDC, Others.
“On Shore Oil Disasters”, National Wildlife Federation
“Analysis of Frequency, Magnitude and Consequence of Worst-Case Spills From the Proposed Keystone XL Pipeline” John Stansbury, Ph.D., P.E.
“Pipeline “Safety Conditions” are Smoke and Mirrors”, NRDC
Climate Change: Keystone XL is the fuse to North America’s biggest carbon bomb.
In a study funded by the Rockefeller Foundation, a group of retired four-star generals and admirals concluded that climate change, if not addressed, will be the greatest threat to national security.
The State Department Environmental Impact Statement fails to adequately analyze lifecycle greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions caused by the pipeline. Extraction and refinement of oil sands are more GHG-intensive compared to conventional oil. The EIS estimates that the additional annual GHG emissions from the proposed pipeline could range from an additional “12-23 million metric tons of CO2 equivalent… (roughly the equivalent of annual emissions from 2 to 4 coal-fired power plants)” over conventional crude oil from the Middle East. [8] The EPA believes that the methodology used by the State Department is inaccurate and could underestimate GHG emissions by as much as 20 percent.[9] Given that the expected lifetime of the Keystone XL pipeline is fifty years, the EPA notes that the project could yield an extra 1.15 billion tons of GHGs using the quantitative estimates in the EIS.[10]

*************

It seems the US is taking all the risks involved with this pipeline while accruing very little benefit (if any).  Where is the "win" for the United States?


Really....Reasons NOT to proceed with the needed Keystone pipeline...from a blog PAID to oppose...the Keystone Pipeline. I am shocked...SHOCKED I SAY!

You're a hoot!

20No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/11/2014, 2:21 am

Markle

Markle

PkrBum wrote:I think obama might sign a keystone bill... very late on a friday afternoon.

Before a long holiday weekend.

21No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/11/2014, 10:16 am

knothead

knothead

Markle wrote:
PkrBum wrote:I think obama might sign a keystone bill... very late on a friday afternoon.

Before a long holiday weekend.

Let us hope not!!!

22No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/11/2014, 10:29 am

Guest


Guest

knothead wrote:
Markle wrote:
PkrBum wrote:I think obama might sign a keystone bill... very late on a friday afternoon.

Before a long holiday weekend.

Let us hope not!!!

Why? Would the left rise up and begin to question the policies and edicts of obama? Lol... be fo real.

23No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/11/2014, 11:16 am

knothead

knothead

PkrBum wrote:
knothead wrote:
Markle wrote:
PkrBum wrote:I think obama might sign a keystone bill... very late on a friday afternoon.

Before a long holiday weekend.

Let us hope not!!!

Why? Would the left rise up and begin to question the policies and edicts of obama? Lol... be fo real.

You read partisanship in my position but I am not supportive of the pipeline for very good reasons pkr, has nothing whatsoever to do with edicts, policies, or Obama . . . . it is a bad decision to allow it in my own view. The benefits are minimal but the risks are substantial so I ask you why would you want it? To oppose the edicts of Obama or the policies of Obama? The benefits are just not there but the risks are real!

24No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/11/2014, 11:27 am

Guest


Guest

It's a more efficient and safer method to transport a valuable resource. If he doesn't pass it... it's probably for buffet.

25No to the Keystone XL Empty Re: No to the Keystone XL 11/11/2014, 11:30 am

knothead

knothead

PkrBum wrote:It's a more efficient and safer method to transport a valuable resource. If he doesn't pass it... it's probably for buffet.

Valuable resource? For whom? Not for America . . . . no benefit zero, nada for the USA but only known risks . . . .

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