U.S. is on the wrong side in Ukraine

The following article claims a significant number of Ukrainian military forces are in disagreement with Ukraine's president and are quitting the war.  It also corroborates that Russian military forces have not invaded Ukraine . . .

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Fascists-Units-and-Regular-by-Michael-Collins-Euromaidan_Fascist_Military-Defeat_Petro-Poroshenko-140904-823.html

Not that the unqualified author of the article really knows what he's talking about. Or has an agenda. A few units have defected to the Pro-Russian separatists. What's so unusual about that?

So are you suggesting we support Mother Russia in this Russian sponsored conflict?

It wouldn't surprise me. Look at egypt and muslim brotherhood... the insurgents in libya... the rebels in syria... etc.

Hell... they were running thousands of guns to the criminal cartels out of mexico. It's either ignorance or incompetence.

Or the dangerous combination of both with an ideological agenda. I'll take door number three.

Th Dude wrote:It wouldn't surprise me. Look at egypt and muslim brotherhood... the insurgents in libya... the rebels in syria... etc.

Hell... they were running thousands of guns to the criminal cartels out of mexico. It's either ignorance or incompetence.

Or the dangerous combination of both with an ideological agenda. I'll take door number three.

Careful, you might open it and find.....

gatorfan wrote:Not that the unqualified author of the article really knows what he's talking about. Or has an agenda. A few units have defected to the Pro-Russian separatists. What's so unusual about that?

So are you suggesting we support Mother Russia in this Russian sponsored conflict?

Maybe. Our side claims it's all Putin's fault and that the Russian army has now invaded Ukraine. Putin says (and there's considerable evidence to support him) that Russian troops and tanks have not invaded the Ukraine. Ukraine spokespeople say that pro-Russian separatists can be treated fairly under the current Ukrainian regime. The ethnic Russians who want to be part of Russia and not the Ukraine were oppressed before and don't believe the Ukrainians can be trusted. Rightfully, Putin agrees with them.

In addition, consider: Putin is quoted as having said: "If we wanted to invade Ukraine, it would be ours in less than two weeks."

And he's absolutely right. The Russian army could overrun the Ukraine in three days -- consider their numbers and the state of their weaponry.

Now ask yourself, why would Putin invade Ukraine with less than 1200 troops? If he chooses to invade, he wouldn't do it piecemeal.

It's nuts. And our side's frustration in trying to get the Ukraine to join NATO as a jab at Putin, provides all the fuel necessary for our government to lie to us ... the same way we were lied to before our invasion of Iraq, and the same way we were lied to about the "Tonkin Gulf" incident which dramatically exacerbated our disastrous war with Vietnam.

Frankly, I don't trust Obama any more than I trust Putin.

Why the hell are we so heavily involved in a dispute between Ukraine and Russia, it's not our sphere of influence. Isn't ISIS enough, right now?

Wordslinger wrote:

gatorfan wrote:Not that the unqualified author of the article really knows what he's talking about. Or has an agenda. A few units have defected to the Pro-Russian separatists. What's so unusual about that?

So are you suggesting we support Mother Russia in this Russian sponsored conflict?

Maybe.  Our side claims it's all Putin's fault and that the Russian army has now invaded Ukraine.  Putin says (and there's considerable evidence to support him) that Russian troops and tanks have not invaded the Ukraine.  Ukraine spokespeople say that pro-Russian separatists can be treated fairly under the current Ukrainian regime.  The ethnic Russians who want to be part of Russia and not the Ukraine were oppressed before and don't believe the Ukrainians can be trusted.  Rightfully, Putin agrees with them.

In addition, consider:  Putin is quoted as having said:  "If we wanted to invade Ukraine, it would be ours in less than two weeks."

And he's absolutely right.  The Russian army could overrun the Ukraine in three days -- consider their numbers and the state of their weaponry.

Now ask yourself, why would Putin invade Ukraine with less than 1200 troops?  If he chooses to invade, he wouldn't do it piecemeal.

It's nuts.  And our side's frustration in trying to get the Ukraine to join NATO as a jab at Putin, provides all the fuel necessary for our government to lie to us ... the same way we were lied to before our invasion of Iraq, and the same way we were lied to about the "Tonkin Gulf" incident which dramatically exacerbated our disastrous war with Vietnam.

Frankly, I don't trust Obama any more than I trust Putin.  

Why the hell are we so heavily involved in a dispute between Ukraine and Russia, it's not our sphere of influence.  Isn't ISIS enough, right now?

I've never said we should be involved. This is an EU problem plain and simple. Ukraine is not a NATO member so they can't throw that card at us.

Wordslinger wrote:It also corroborates that Russian military forces have not invaded Ukraine . . .

No additional commentary required......

(Reuters) - NATO demanded on Thursday that Moscow withdraw its troops from Ukraine as U.S. President Barack Obama and his Western allies held a summit intended to buttress defenses against Russia in the biggest strategic shift since the Cold War.

While Western leaders discussed tougher sanctions against Russia over continued fighting in eastern Ukraine, the Kremlin dangled the prospect of an imminent ceasefire in the five-month-old armed revolt by pro-Russian separatists.

"We call on Russia to end its illegal and self-declared annexation of Crimea," Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen declared as the 28 NATO leaders met Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko at a golf resort near the Welsh city of Newport.

"We call on Russia to pull back its troops from Ukraine and stop the flow of arms, fighters and funds to the separatists," Rasmussen said. "We call on Russia to step back from confrontation and take the path of peace."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/04/us-ukraine-crisis-nato-idUSKBN0GZ1NY20140904

I didn't know we had picked a side.

Wordslinger wrote:

gatorfan wrote:Not that the unqualified author of the article really knows what he's talking about. Or has an agenda. A few units have defected to the Pro-Russian separatists. What's so unusual about that?

So are you suggesting we support Mother Russia in this Russian sponsored conflict?

Maybe.  Our side claims it's all Putin's fault and that the Russian army has now invaded Ukraine.  Putin says (and there's considerable evidence to support him) that Russian troops and tanks have not invaded the Ukraine.  Ukraine spokespeople say that pro-Russian separatists can be treated fairly under the current Ukrainian regime.  The ethnic Russians who want to be part of Russia and not the Ukraine were oppressed before and don't believe the Ukrainians can be trusted.  Rightfully, Putin agrees with them.

In addition, consider:  Putin is quoted as having said:  "If we wanted to invade Ukraine, it would be ours in less than two weeks."

And he's absolutely right.  The Russian army could overrun the Ukraine in three days -- consider their numbers and the state of their weaponry.

Now ask yourself, why would Putin invade Ukraine with less than 1200 troops?  If he chooses to invade, he wouldn't do it piecemeal.

It's nuts.  And our side's frustration in trying to get the Ukraine to join NATO as a jab at Putin, provides all the fuel necessary for our government to lie to us ... the same way we were lied to before our invasion of Iraq, and the same way we were lied to about the "Tonkin Gulf" incident which dramatically exacerbated our disastrous war with Vietnam.

Frankly, I don't trust Obama any more than I trust Putin.  

Why the hell are we so heavily involved in a dispute between Ukraine and Russia, it's not our sphere of influence.  Isn't ISIS enough, right now?

How are we involved?

If you recall...President Ronald Reagan warned Europe AGAINST running gas and oil transmission lines through Ukraine. Yet, that is exactly where the lines were run. Russia already controls much of the fuel going to Europe and cut that supply last year. That's one reason we have an interest in Ukraine.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:I didn't know we had picked a side.

Earth to Pacedog .... where the hell are you? We've made Putin the enemy and we're championing the government of Ukraine.

What did you think was going on?

Markle wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:

gatorfan wrote:Not that the unqualified author of the article really knows what he's talking about. Or has an agenda. A few units have defected to the Pro-Russian separatists. What's so unusual about that?

So are you suggesting we support Mother Russia in this Russian sponsored conflict?

Maybe.  Our side claims it's all Putin's fault and that the Russian army has now invaded Ukraine.  Putin says (and there's considerable evidence to support him) that Russian troops and tanks have not invaded the Ukraine.  Ukraine spokespeople say that pro-Russian separatists can be treated fairly under the current Ukrainian regime.  The ethnic Russians who want to be part of Russia and not the Ukraine were oppressed before and don't believe the Ukrainians can be trusted.  Rightfully, Putin agrees with them.

In addition, consider:  Putin is quoted as having said:  "If we wanted to invade Ukraine, it would be ours in less than two weeks."

And he's absolutely right.  The Russian army could overrun the Ukraine in three days -- consider their numbers and the state of their weaponry.

Now ask yourself, why would Putin invade Ukraine with less than 1200 troops?  If he chooses to invade, he wouldn't do it piecemeal.

It's nuts.  And our side's frustration in trying to get the Ukraine to join NATO as a jab at Putin, provides all the fuel necessary for our government to lie to us ... the same way we were lied to before our invasion of Iraq, and the same way we were lied to about the "Tonkin Gulf" incident which dramatically exacerbated our disastrous war with Vietnam.

Frankly, I don't trust Obama any more than I trust Putin.  

Why the hell are we so heavily involved in a dispute between Ukraine and Russia, it's not our sphere of influence.  Isn't ISIS enough, right now?

How are we involved?

If you recall...President Ronald Reagan warned Europe AGAINST running gas and oil transmission lines through Ukraine.  Yet, that is exactly where the lines were run.  Russia already controls much of the fuel going to Europe and cut that supply last year.  That's one reason we have an interest in Ukraine.  

I believe the fields from which the oil and gas are extracted are in Russia, right? Which means Russia could cut off the majority of Europe's fuel supply anytime it deems it advantageous to do so. Once again, why is Ukraine so important to us?

We all realize that you strongly support Russia and their stellar system of shared misery.