Either President Barack Hussein Obama is IGNORANT about the RYAN MEDICARE PLAN...or Obama is LYING

Either President Barack Hussein Obama is IGNORANT about the RYAN MEDICARE PLAN...or Obama is LYING.

What could be better than a three hour, no moderator, simply a timekeeper, debate between President Barack Hussein Obama and Paul Ryan about Medicare. No teleprompters or other communication between they and their staff.

Fact Check: Obama running against outdated version of Ryan Medicare plan

Published August 20, 2012
FoxNews.com

The Obama campaign would like voters to believe that Paul Ryan's Medicare plan would "end Medicare as we know it" -- privatizing the whole system and costing seniors more than $6,000 extra a year.

But the campaign, even before Ryan was selected as Mitt Romney's running mate, has effectively been running against the wrong Ryan plan.

The president's accusations largely refer to Ryan's 2011 plan, ignoring the fact that the House Budget Committee chairman rolled out a different version in 2012 -- taking into account Democratic critiques. Though the 2012 plan is more moderate, Obama and his surrogates have all but ignored the newer version as they amp up their accusations against the Romney-Ryan ticket.

Most glaringly, the campaign has omitted a key point.

While Ryan's 2011 plan proposes to give seniors a government payment to buy private insurance, his 2012 plan offers seniors a choice.

Under the blueprint, seniors could use the payment to buy private insurance or stay in traditional Medicare.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/20/fact-check-obama-campaign-running-against-outdated-ryan-medicare-plan/#ixzz247HMoRld

Utter desperation from President Obama. He knows his base will believe anything that comes out of the mouth of their messiah.

My guess is it is both, BHO is ignorant and he always lies

Why did he change the plan?

Lurch wrote:Why did he change the plan?

One can only assume no plan is perfect the first, second, or twentieth go round. You do things perfectly, first time, every time?

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:Why did he change the plan?

One can only assume no plan is perfect the first, second, or twentieth go round. You do things perfectly, first time, every time?

So I guess we can expect it to change again..
How much difference is there between romneycare and obamacare?

Lurch wrote:

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:Why did he change the plan?

One can only assume no plan is perfect the first, second, or twentieth go round. You do things perfectly, first time, every time?

So I guess we can expect it to change again..
How much difference is there between romneycare and obamacare?

You ought to try and read them and decide. The major difference I see is the "Ryan Plan" is only a "Plan" while BHO's was rammed through and is now law - with all of its many warts.

nochain wrote:My guess is it is both, BHO is ignorant and he always lies

He's campaigning against a non-existent plan which his campaign has to know....so that answers the 'lie' question and if he does this then he must also be ignorant to the plan from Ryan

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:Why did he change the plan?

One can only assume no plan is perfect the first, second, or twentieth go round. You do things perfectly, first time, every time?

So I guess we can expect it to change again..
How much difference is there between romneycare and obamacare?

You ought to try and read them and decide. The major difference I see is the "Ryan Plan" is only a "Plan" while BHO's was rammed through and is now law - with all of its many warts.

I said what was the difference between romneycare and obamacare, Not the ryan plan.. romneycare is in place already.. Is romney gonna let ryan come up with a plan and do his work for him?

People have no/none idea of the difference. Why? Ask the MSM. The Romney/Ryan plan does call for a $6.5K per year premium increase for individuals in medicare.

It's a fact, period. People need to report it, and all the facts.

The $6.5k premium only affects those reporting $400k income per year in retirement.

Any family reporting less than $150K per year in retirement income will be exempt.

I thought Obama wants everyone (employed) to pay their fair share.....

Why not report the truth??????

[quote="Lurch"][quote="nochain"][quote="Lurch"]

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:Why did he change the plan?

, Not the ryan plan.. romneycare is in place already.. Is romney gonna let ryan come up with a plan and do his work for him?

You are correct, my mistake. RC is a state plan, BHOCARE is national, I would expect there to be differences but am not interested enough to try and read BHOCARE again, tried it once.

Lurch wrote:

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:Why did he change the plan?

One can only assume no plan is perfect the first, second, or twentieth go round. You do things perfectly, first time, every time?

So I guess we can expect it to change again..
How much difference is there between romneycare and obamacare?

You ought to try and read them and decide. The major difference I see is the "Ryan Plan" is only a "Plan" while BHO's was rammed through and is now law - with all of its many warts.

I said what was the difference between romneycare and obamacare, Not the ryan plan.. romneycare is in place already.. Is romney gonna let ryan come up with a plan and do his work for him?

Romneycare was for ONE state crafted by the Governor and the State legislature...NOT ALL 50 States behind closed doors and twisting arms for votes...If MA wanted this...well they got what they wanted....America had no choice!....

[quote="newswatcher"]

Lurch wrote:

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:Why did he change the plan?

One can only assume no plan is perfect the first, second, or twentieth go round. You do things perfectly, first time, every time?

So I guess we can expect it to change again..
How much difference is there between romneycare and obamacare?

You ought to try and read them and decide. The major difference I see is the "Ryan Plan" is only a "Plan" while BHO's was rammed through and is now law - with all of its many warts.

I said what was the difference between romneycare and obamacare, Not the ryan plan.. romneycare is in place already.. Is romney gonna let ryan come up with a plan and do his work for him?

Romneycare was for ONE state crafted by the Governor and the State legislature...NOT ALL 50 States behind closed doors and twisting arms for votes...If MA wanted this...well they got what they wanted....America had no choice!....[/quote

Why not put Obamacare on the ballot as a constitution amendment ? If Obamacare is so GREAT...why not vote on it? Where is the voting public???

NaNook wrote:People have no/none idea of the difference. Why? Ask the MSM. The Romney/Ryan plan does call for a $6.5K per year premium increase for individuals in medicare.

It's a fact, period. People need to report it, and all the facts.

The $6.5k premium only affects those reporting $400k income per year in retirement.

Any family reporting less than $150K per year in retirement income will be exempt.

I thought Obama wants everyone (employed) to pay their fair share.....

Why not report the truth??????

Like the republicans reported the truth about Obamacare? LOL!

[quote="NaNook"]

newswatcher wrote:

Lurch wrote:

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:Why did he change the plan?

One can only assume no plan is perfect the first, second, or twentieth go round. You do things perfectly, first time, every time?

So I guess we can expect it to change again..
How much difference is there between romneycare and obamacare?

You ought to try and read them and decide. The major difference I see is the "Ryan Plan" is only a "Plan" while BHO's was rammed through and is now law - with all of its many warts.

I said what was the difference between romneycare and obamacare, Not the ryan plan.. romneycare is in place already.. Is romney gonna let ryan come up with a plan and do his work for him?

Romneycare was for ONE state crafted by the Governor and the State legislature...NOT ALL 50 States behind closed doors and twisting arms for votes...If MA wanted this...well they got what they wanted....America had no choice!....[/quote

Why not put Obamacare on the ballot as a constitution amendment ? If Obamacare is so GREAT...why not vote on it? Where is the voting public???

On Sunday Reuters released a poll showing 48 percent of registered voters now back the bill. That is up five percent since the ruling. That includes a bump in support among independent voters from 27 percent to 38 percent. And even opposition among Republicans, who overwhelmingly hate it, went down five percentage points from 86 percent to 81 percent.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/03/americans-are-starting-to-approve-obamacare/#ixzz248kFGrUG

Dreamsglore wrote:
On Sunday Reuters released a poll showing 48 percent of registered voters now back the bill. That is up five percent since the ruling. That includes a bump in support among independent voters from 27 percent to 38 percent. And even opposition among Republicans, who overwhelmingly hate it, went down five percentage points from 86 percent to 81 percent.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/03/americans-are-starting-to-approve-obamacare/#ixzz248kFGrUG

Oh Brother, now even F news is reporting how much the public is warming to the ACA. I had a feeling the tag "Obamacare" would come back to bite the R's. They thought it was a pejorative handle but it is going to be a public 'thank you' to the only president who was able to pull this developed country of ours kicking and screaming into the light of universal healthcare.

First, the parts of the president's health care law that have already been implemented are actually very popular. And Americans tell pollsters they don't want to see them taken away.
Clear majorities of people say they want insurance companies to cover those with pre-existing conditions, they want children to be able to stay on their parent's health insurance until they are 26 or find a job, they don't want insurance companies dropping people's coverage when they get sick or hiking up their premiums. If you poll senior citizens and ask them if they like saving money on their prescription drugs, they say they do.
Second, while it is not a majority there is still a significant percentage of Americans people who say they oppose the law because they think it doesn't go far enough. They wanted a public option or single payer.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/03/americans-are-starting-to-approve-obamacare/#ixzz248rYARFY

[quote="Dreamsglore"]

NaNook wrote:

newswatcher wrote:

Lurch wrote:

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:Why did he change the plan?

One can only assume no plan is perfect the first, second, or twentieth go round. You do things perfectly, first time, every time?

So I guess we can expect it to change again..
How much difference is there between romneycare and obamacare?

You ought to try and read them and decide. The major difference I see is the "Ryan Plan" is only a "Plan" while BHO's was rammed through and is now law - with all of its many warts.

I said what was the difference between romneycare and obamacare, Not the ryan plan.. romneycare is in place already.. Is romney gonna let ryan come up with a plan and do his work for him?

Romneycare was for ONE state crafted by the Governor and the State legislature...NOT ALL 50 States behind closed doors and twisting arms for votes...If MA wanted this...well they got what they wanted....America had no choice!....[/quote

Why not put Obamacare on the ballot as a constitution amendment ? If Obamacare is so GREAT...why not vote on it? Where is the voting public???

On Sunday Reuters released a poll showing 48 percent of registered voters now back the bill. That is up five percent since the ruling. That includes a bump in support among independent voters from 27 percent to 38 percent. And even opposition among Republicans, who overwhelmingly hate it, went down five percentage points from 86 percent to 81 percent.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/03/americans-are-starting-to-approve-obamacare/#ixzz248kFGrUG

Monday, August 20, 2012

The majority of voters still wants to repeal President Obama’s health care law, even though most aren’t worried that the law will force them to change their existing health insurance coverage.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 52% of Likely U.S. Voters favor repeal of the law, while 39% are opposed. This includes 41% who Strongly Favor repeal and 28% who Strongly Oppose it. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

Markle, you know the Rasmussen poll is notoriously biased. Try again. The so-called Ryan Medicare plan is nothing more than the same old voucher based system, which would do nothing whatever to control costs or to extend medical care to the 45 million people who have none.

Floridatexan wrote:Markle, you know the Rasmussen poll is notoriously biased. Try again. .

You only think polls are biased when you can't use them to support your loose cannon agenda.

Floridatexan wrote:Markle, you know the Rasmussen poll is notoriously biased. Try again. The so-called Ryan Medicare plan is nothing more than the same old voucher based system, which would do nothing whatever to control costs or to extend medical care to the 45 million people who have none.

A new study from HARVARD says the Ryan Plan can work. Even an Obama supporter endorsed the Ryan Plan. Google around and find it. Look at JAMA...it's not my job to educate you......

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/16/paul-ryan-mitt-romney-choice

Floridatexan wrote:Markle, you know the Rasmussen poll is notoriously biased. Try again. The so-called Ryan Medicare plan is nothing more than the same old voucher based system, which would do nothing whatever to control costs or to extend medical care to the 45 million people who have none.

Do you know why Rasmussen is usually more accurate than other polls? I bet you're never made the effort to educate yourself about that have you?

Poll Accuracy in the 2008 Presidential Election
—Initial Report, November 5, 2008—
Costas Panagopoulos, Ph.D.
Department of Political Science
Fordham University
For inquiries: cpanagopoulo@fordham.edu or (917) 405-9069

For all the derision directed toward pre-election polling, the final poll estimates were not far off from the actual nationwide voteshares for the two candidates. On average, preelection polls from 23 public polling organizations projected a Democratic advantage of 7.52 percentage points on Election Day, which is only about 1.37 percentage points away from the current estimate of a 6.15-point Obama margin in the national popular vote.

Following the procedures proposed by Martin, Traugott and Kennedy. (see Public Opinion Quarterly Fall, 2006, pp. 342-369) to assess poll accuracy, I analyze poll estimates from these 23 polling organizations. Four of these polls appear to have overestimated McCain support (indicated with a * below), while most polls (17) overestimated Obama strength.

Pre-election projections for two organizations’ final polls—Rasmussen and Pew—were perfectly in agreement with the actual election result (**).

The following list ranks the 23 organizations by the accuracy of their final, national preelection polls (as reported on pollster.com).

1. Rasmussen (11/1-3)**
1. Pew (10/29-11/1)**
2. YouGov/Polimetrix (10/18-11/1)
3. Harris Interactive (10/20-27)
4. GWU (Lake/Tarrance) (11/2-3)*
5. Diageo/Hotline (10/31-11/2)*
5. ARG (10/25-27)*
6. CNN (10/30-11/1)
6. Ipsos/McClatchy (10/30-11/1)
7. DailyKos.com (D)/Research 2000 (11/1-3)
8. AP/Yahoo/KN (10/17-27)
9. Democracy Corps (D) (10/30-11/2)
10. FOX (11/1-2)
11. Economist/YouGov (10/25-27)
12. IBD/TIPP (11/1-3)
13. NBC/WSJ (11/1-2)
14. ABC/Post (10/30-11/2)
15. Marist College (11/3)
16. CBS (10/31-11/2)
17. Gallup (10/31-11/2)
18. Reuters/ C-SPAN/ Zogby (10/31-11/3)
19. CBS/Times (10/25-29)
20. Newsweek (10/22-23)

http://tinyurl.com/58ha9z

A new study from HARVARD says the Ryan Plan can work[/b]. Even an Obama supporter endorsed the Ryan Plan. Google around and find it. Look at JAMA...it's not my job to educate you......

[b] _Hey Republicans! Stop Misusing My Medicare Study!_

"Supporters for the Romney-Ryan approach to Medicare have a new talking point. They say a new study by “three liberal Harvard economists” proves that the plan’s competition will reduce health care costs without harming beneficiaries. But the study doesn’t say that.

And I should know. I’m one of the economists who wrote it."


From an article by David Cutler, one of the authors of the Medicare study in question:

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/106324/cutler-chernew-medicare-study-ryan-voucher-premium-support-competition

The revised Ryan plan is the same damn thing you have now, you can elect to stay in original Medicare or purchase a Medicare Advantage.

But to answer the original question, they are both ignorant and both lying so go to the polls and flip a coin. But wait what the hell is Romney's plan? Ryan won't matter as VP.

Guess what? AHCA will never be repealed, maybe parts re-worked but never fully repealed. This will happen regardless of who is elected.

you're right... this isn't necessarily about an issue... it's an opportunity to play on a base human fear. can anybody think of a real fear/issue that they aren't? gawd we're dumb.

Lurch wrote:

nochain wrote:

Lurch wrote:Why did he change the plan?

One can only assume no plan is perfect the first, second, or twentieth go round. You do things perfectly, first time, every time?

So I guess we can expect it to change again..
How much difference is there between romneycare and obamacare?

As Obama said and I thought it was very amusing, "Governor Romney's plan should be called Romney Hood . . . . Robin Hood in reverse."