Who's idea was common core? Have you seen this?

Hell, if this shit sticks our kids wont need to worry about taking any damn iq test. they will be so messed up they will probably turn to drugs to escape trying to solve one of these problems lol




Why are we doing this?

The worst mistake of all in that is drawing that rectangular box around the numbers. It makes it impossible to determine if it's a + or - symbol they've written.

 -- I will stick with the old fashion way   

The worst mistake of all in that is drawing that rectangular box around the numbers. It makes it impossible to determine if it's a + or - symbol they've written.


Bob....this confirms you spent way too much time at PB in high school, and not enough time in math class.......the box interfering with the symbol makes no difference.

interesting......My wife hated the confusion in the last 15 years in curriculum, and with each new administrator changing up what is supposed to be the best method.

There's a lot of discontent going on all over the country about this common core crap.

Call me old fashioned and regressive if you must, but really messing with something as simple as subtraction and making it this long process is just another way to confuse kids and further harm future generations. Not to mention the damn parents wont be able to help with homework lol

I'm glad I only have the one left in school and hes in private school and they don't use common core.

Also, on this from my understanding is they don't actually have to get stuff right, just understand the "theory".

oat, when did your wife retire? Did they introduce common core before she retired and did she see it? I think PD has expressed dislike for it if I recall correctly.

I am not so sure that these methods do not help the higher level conceptual skills which may allow kids without math aptitude to advance further. I developed a modified system of math adding, subtracting and percentages when I worked in system implementation of MRP systems on mainframes in the mid seventies. Part of my major responsibility was inventory control, capacity planning and forecasting. I could look at stacks of random parts in different count boxes and do the math in my head without using a calculator. It was very similar to this common core method of bundling the thousands and hundreds and tens. So as an example there would be 10 boxes of 1 inch stainless steel balls and I would have counts ranging in the three digit hundreds....eg....362....498.....740... 245...etc, and in my head I would go 4 down 38, 9 down 40, 17 down zero, 19 down 55 for an answer instantaneously of 1,845, and as a mental exercise I would often reverse the method and add, but still rapidly doing the same in my head. When the Borg Warner outside auditors would come in they would question me on a count on a shelf of parts during an inventory, and thought I was full of chit when I glanced at the same and never used a calculator and gave them an answer. One auditor thought I had memorized certain shelving units to impress him.....which I thought was really weird because I was using a simple technique very similar to what they are trying to teach kids now. He thought I was really smart when in fact I was using a tool which allowed a person without the capacity he probably had to outperform him and his calculator. It was hard to explain, but it certainly had nothing to do with intelligence. It was a perfect example of a person using a tool to expand their capacity beyond their God given talent.

2seaoat wrote:I am not so sure that these methods do not help the higher level conceptual skills which may allow kids without math aptitude to advance further.  I developed a modified system of math adding, subtracting and percentages when I worked in system implementation of MRP systems on mainframes in the mid seventies.  Part of my major responsibility was inventory control, capacity planning and forecasting.  I could look at stacks of random parts in different count boxes and do the math in my head without using a calculator.  It was very similar to this common core method of bundling the thousands and hundreds and tens.  So as an example there would be 10 boxes of 1 inch stainless steel balls and I would have counts ranging in the three digit hundreds....eg....362....498.....740... 245...etc, and in my head I would go 4 down 38, 9 down 40, 17 down zero, 19 down 55 for an answer instantaneously of 1,845, and as a mental exercise I would often reverse the method and add, but still rapidly doing the same in my head.  When the Borg Warner outside auditors would come in they would question me on a count on a shelf of parts during an inventory, and thought I was full of chit when I glanced at the same and never used a calculator and gave them an answer.  One auditor thought I had memorized certain shelving units to impress him.....which I thought was really weird because I was using a simple technique very similar to what they are trying to teach kids now.  He thought I was really smart when in fact I was using a tool which allowed a person without the capacity he probably had to outperform him and his calculator.  It was hard to explain, but it certainly had nothing to do with intelligence.  It was a perfect example of a person using a tool to expand their capacity beyond their God given talent.

Well that's just fantastic for you. I'm sure you will agree that any 3rd grader could do that right? Because we are talking about elementary students.

I was hoping for a honest answer that came from your wife lol

anyway, why mess with this tried and true method? Don't we have bigger issues that we need to focus on in our school system?

I am sure that every single damn book had to be re-written in every single damn school.

Then yes, do you think that it is not a big deal that parents are not going to be able to help their children with home work? because this is a foreign language.

I saw this accurate response somewhere.


Personally we are letting this very important topic slip by us while we are all distracted with mostly bull shit. Parents and grandparents need to take action and stop this crap.

I think my wife and Pace would agree 100% on this subject. She did not care what horse she had to use to pull the wagon, and certainly liked the traditional and proven horse, but what was most frustrating for teachers was some damn administrator every five years wanted to reinvent the wheel, and would change up horses....and with each change there were delays and lost opportunity with kids......bottom line is if they would just let the teachers use their old tried and true horse the wagon would get to its destination on time and everybody would be safe.

2seaoat wrote:I think my wife and Pace would agree 100% on this subject.  She did not care what horse she had to use to pull the wagon, and certainly liked the traditional and proven horse, but what was most frustrating for teachers was some damn administrator every five years wanted to reinvent the wheel, and would change up horses....and with each change there were delays and lost opportunity with kids......bottom line is if they would just let the teachers use their old tried and true horse the wagon would get to its destination on time and everybody would be safe.

Bingo!

Finally something we can agree on.

2seaoat wrote:

Bob....this confirms you spent way too much time at PB in high school, and not enough time in math class.......the box interfering with the symbol makes no difference.

You're probably right.  But what was "PB" in high school? Was that what they called detention in other regions? Because if it was then I definitely was in that for too much time. lol

:)Hell, if this shit sticks our kids wont need to worry about taking any damn iq test. they will be so messed up they will probably turn to drugs to escape trying to solve one of these problems lol




Why are we doing this?

It's all part of the Race to the Top monies offered by Obama when the economy was in the crapper. Lots of states are dumping it. Rick Scott is against it, but freaking Charlie Crist and Jeb Bush are for it.

It's a dumbing down of our kids.

:)There's a lot of discontent going on all over the country about this common core crap.

Call me old fashioned and regressive if you must, but really messing with something as simple as subtraction and making it this long process is just another way to confuse kids and further harm future generations. Not to mention the damn parents wont be able to help with homework lol

I'm glad I only have the one left in school and hes in private school and they don't use common core.

Also, on this from my understanding is they don't actually have to get stuff right, just understand the "theory".

oat, when did your wife retire? Did they introduce common core before she retired and did she see it? I think PD has expressed dislike for it if I recall correctly.

Common core is but isn't adopted in Florida. It was going into full effect next year, but has met with pushback. There's a lot of parent discontent with it. As it should be. Why have all these steps to add or subtract? It's asinine.

2seaoat wrote:I think my wife and Pace would agree 100% on this subject.  She did not care what horse she had to use to pull the wagon, and certainly liked the traditional and proven horse, but what was most frustrating for teachers was some damn administrator every five years wanted to reinvent the wheel, and would change up horses....and with each change there were delays and lost opportunity with kids......bottom line is if they would just let the teachers use their old tried and true horse the wagon would get to its destination on time and everybody would be safe.

It's the admin at district level specifically or in the asst supers office for each level. Principals, believe it or not, are still led by the carrot and stick from the county office.

The state is the worst. We have a lot of legislators who think that they know education and have never worked in a classroom. Lots of educators, especially in the South Florida region, are jumping on the charter school bandwagon too and making separate rules for charter schools that exclude them from rules the public schools must follow. When you look at who is in charge or on the board of nearly every charter school, it is a state legislator or their funding source for reelection. Follow the money.

The noble intent is national standards... the evolution with be growing national controls and edicts.

I'm impressed by how many times we can see these progressive patterns... and never consider the results.

That had to be taught.

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/20/5625086/the-common-core-makes-simple-math-more-complicated-heres-why

Sal wrote:http://www.vox.com/2014/4/20/5625086/the-common-core-makes-simple-math-more-complicated-heres-why

Are you defending common core math?

Oddly enough, this common core math stuff looks similar to how I do math in my head. I was never any good at the "this carries over", etc. concepts, so I eventually figured out my own way to do it, including division and multiplication. That said, I don't know if I could put my method on paper.

Math on any level was always a struggle for me, until I took Algebra at the PJC Milton Campus in the early '80s. I had a phenomenal instructor, Mr. Sandford, and suddenly, the basic building blocks of math clicked. I have been able to do basic math in my head ever since,  including conversion of fractions, decimals, and so on.

But algebra? I would have to take another course.   

I think it would be wise to teach both methods, and allow the student to decide which one works for best for him or her in the future.

EDIT: I just realized I described my method above. Somehow it has to do with blocks. Blocks of information. Any further, I cannot go!

Sal wrote:http://www.vox.com/2014/4/20/5625086/the-common-core-makes-simple-math-more-complicated-heres-why

Are you defending common core math?

Common Core is not a curriculum.

It's simply a delineation of what knowledge and skills kids should possess at each grade level to be prepared for college or vocational training.

It's up to each individual school district to come up with curricula to meet the standards.

To put it simply, this is how I would solve the problem Chrissy posted:

32-12 = ?


30-10 = 20
2-2 = 0

20+0=20


Let's try 82-36 = ?

80-40 = 40
2+ 4 (the 4 used to round up to 40, the 2 that was in the number 82)

40+6=46

Answer, 46


Anyhow, that's how my head does it. If was hard to figure out how to put it down on paper! Big blocks, little blocks. Just gotta know how to stack'em.  

My husband is an engineer and he learned to do math the "old fashioned" way. When both our kids were in school and they'd need help with math, I'd send them to their dad because I'm horrible at math. Often times, my husband would show them how to do a problem but they would say "that's not how my teacher does it". And of course, they couldn't really explain how their teacher did it if they didn't understand the problem.

PBulldog2 wrote:To put it simply, this is how I would solve the problem Chrissy posted:

32-12 = ?


30-10 = 20
2-2 = 0

20+0=20


Let's try 82-36 = ?

80-40 = 40
2+ 4 (the 4 used to round up to 40, the 2 that was included in the first calculation) = 6

40+6=46

Answer, 46


Anyhow, that's how my head does it. If was hard to figure out how to put it down on paper! Big blocks, little blocks. Just gotta know how to stack'em.   

You know what--I understand how you think that way! I do simple math in my head similarly. But if it gets to be large numbers, forget it!

Nekochan wrote:

PBulldog2 wrote:To put it simply, this is how I would solve the problem Chrissy posted:

32-12 = ?


30-10 = 20
2-2 = 0

20+0=20


Let's try 82-36 = ?

80-40 = 40
2+ 4 (the 4 used to round up to 40, the 2 that was included in the first calculation) = 6

40+6=46

Answer, 46


Anyhow, that's how my head does it. If was hard to figure out how to put it down on paper! Big blocks, little blocks. Just gotta know how to stack'em.   

You know what--I understand how you think that way!   I do simple math in my head similarly.   But if it gets to be large numbers, forget it!  

Take a sec and read the article Sal posted. Doing math that way makes perfect sense to me, while all the old rules we learned in class made little sense at all. I think it's important to emphasize the "why" rather than just the "how."

Perhaps if we had been taught that method, in addition to "old-fashioned" problem-solving, math would be much easier for us now. I think the Common Core math people are onto something here.

Do you remember diagramming sentences in class, Neko? I loved it! It explained the "why" of sentence construction. As I understand it, diagramming is no longer taught in class.

This is a great discussion!