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HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS.

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1HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/9/2012, 5:20 pm

Slicef18

Slicef18
We choose politicians differently than most any other choices we make. We don't choose thinking who will be the best. No, we choose politicians based on we really don't like or trust that other guy. Of course, there are those people who don't or won't make the effort to learn about the issues or what the candidates support and vote "D" or "R" because I always have. It doesn't speak well about a nation that votes for their leaders based on "I'm not voting for that other guy."

2HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/9/2012, 5:34 pm

Guest


Guest
I voted for Ron Paul last time but I'll be voting for obama this time because I think romney would be the worse thing that could happen to the world. he'll make bush look good..

3HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/10/2012, 8:49 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM
Lurch wrote:I voted for Ron Paul last time but I'll be voting for obama this time because I think romney would be the worse thing that could happen to the world. he'll make bush look good..

Me too. Voted for Paul in the primary, but I can't vote for Romney. He will open the doors wide for the return of the Neocons. I can't vote for that.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

4HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/10/2012, 10:44 pm

Guest


Guest
i think more and more it will be the huddled masses that will simply vote for the one that promises them the most stuff... it's abundantly clear from bush to now obama that they don't have to actually fulfill the promises.

5HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/11/2012, 7:38 pm

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
PkrBum wrote:i think more and more it will be the huddled masses that will simply vote for the one that promises them the most stuff... it's abundantly clear from bush to now obama that they don't have to actually fulfill the promises.

Sometimes, in order to make an argument a person will accuse others of voting for the party that they think will, as you say, give them the most stuff.

I prefer to frame it as people voting for the party/person who will stick up for the ordinary person. This is not the same as a hand-out.

To me, the wealthy have all the power on their side. They can hire the best of every sort of person to do their bidding, the best accountants, lawyers, doctors, managers, etc. They are taken care of and that's their reward.

The middle and working class folks are basically on their own. It would be nice if the government would stick up for them/us. You know not let pay-day lenders take advantage of members of the military, not let for profit colleges that scam the poor, not letting factories dump waste in our rivers, etc. etc.

When it comes right down to it the government is or should be one of the few things that the ordinary citizen has going for them.

I'm saying that to vote for the type of government that a person thinks has his/her own best interest in mind is not the same thing as saying they vote for whoever they think is going to give them more free stuff. I think of it as having a game going on and having a fair referee and not a game in which there are two sets of rules, one for the wealthy and another for the rest of us.

That's not a hand out, that's just fairness. I don't think that's asking too much.

6HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/11/2012, 7:51 pm

Guest


Guest
your premise is flawed. wealth is not taxable income... but the good news is that when enough income is confiscated to cripple the economic engine... the next target is wealth. (which is primarily held by the elderly and retired) the death tax and federal reserve are ok at it... but simply taking it is more efficient.

7HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/11/2012, 11:19 pm

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
PkrBum wrote:your premise is flawed. wealth is not taxable income... but the good news is that when enough income is confiscated to cripple the economic engine... the next target is wealth. (which is primarily held by the elderly and retired) the death tax and federal reserve are ok at it... but simply taking it is more efficient.
Is this a new thought? Whose premise is flawed? I didn't say anything about taxes. what are you talking about?
I'm saying I think the government should be, well, by the people, for the people. Radical idea?

8HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/12/2012, 4:04 am

Markle

Markle
othershoe1030 wrote:
PkrBum wrote:i think more and more it will be the huddled masses that will simply vote for the one that promises them the most stuff... it's abundantly clear from bush to now obama that they don't have to actually fulfill the promises.

Sometimes, in order to make an argument a person will accuse others of voting for the party that they think will, as you say, give them the most stuff.

I prefer to frame it as people voting for the party/person who will stick up for the ordinary person. This is not the same as a hand-out.

To me, the wealthy have all the power on their side. They can hire the best of every sort of person to do their bidding, the best accountants, lawyers, doctors, managers, etc. They are taken care of and that's their reward.

The middle and working class folks are basically on their own. It would be nice if the government would stick up for them/us. You know not let pay-day lenders take advantage of members of the military, not let for profit colleges that scam the poor, not letting factories dump waste in our rivers, etc. etc.

When it comes right down to it the government is or should be one of the few things that the ordinary citizen has going for them.

I'm saying that to vote for the type of government that a person thinks has his/her own best interest in mind is not the same thing as saying they vote for whoever they think is going to give them more free stuff. I think of it as having a game going on and having a fair referee and not a game in which there are two sets of rules, one for the wealthy and another for the rest of us.

That's not a hand out, that's just fairness. I don't think that's asking too much.

Like all Progressives, you forget EQUALITY. The Constitution says nothing about FAIRNESS, we all have equal opportunities, NO ONE is guaranteed an equal OUTCOME. What you want are rules for FAIRNESS. LIFE is not FAIR.

As for who vote for Democrats or Republicans? As you well know, Democrats vote for whoever they feel will give them the most freebies. The voting base of President Barack Hussein Obama is not even shy about why they are voted for him.

The Obama Base, Chicago Peggy Joseph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZjcFp60DJc

Ken Rogulski of WJR Obama detroit stash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOZ-Etb0k0Q

Thousands Line Up In Atlanta For Section 8 Housing Applications Aug 8, 2010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epr8Otfstr4

Raise Taxes Demonstration Chicago April 21, 2010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSh7WUK1GDc

Howard Stern - 2008-10-01 - Sal Interviews "Obama Supporters" in Harlem
https://www.youtube.com/watch#!videos=L9LsR3hKYgQ&v=b5p3OB6roAg

Exit interviews with Obama Voters
https://www.youtube.com/watch#!videos=0yOaulVeoNo&v=mm1KOBMg1Y8

9HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/12/2012, 5:59 am

Slicef18

Slicef18
PkrBum wrote:i think more and more it will be the huddled masses that will simply vote for the one that promises them the most stuff... it's abundantly clear from bush to now obama that they don't have to actually fulfill the promises.


Many of us remember, " I'll say, to them, 'Read my lips: no new taxes.'
- George H. W. Bush, at the 1988 Republican National Convention."


10HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/12/2012, 6:40 am

Guest


Guest
Slicef18 wrote:
PkrBum wrote:i think more and more it will be the huddled masses that will simply vote for the one that promises them the most stuff... it's abundantly clear from bush to now obama that they don't have to actually fulfill the promises.


Many of us remember, " I'll say, to them, 'Read my lips: no new taxes.'
- George H. W. Bush, at the 1988 Republican National Convention."



we get it... wanting to keep the money you've earned is greed... wanting to take it and give it to others is social justice. i don't think anyone has a problem paying for the common good... roads, bridges, ... ya know, things that benefit all (common) of us equally (good). the idea that general welfare or common good is redistribution is deliberately skewed for the progressive agenda.

11HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/12/2012, 1:55 pm

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
Markle wrote:

Like all Progressives, you forget EQUALITY. The Constitution says nothing about FAIRNESS, we all have equal opportunities, NO ONE is guaranteed an equal OUTCOME. What you want are rules for FAIRNESS. LIFE is not FAIR.

As for who vote for Democrats or Republicans? As you well know, Democrats vote for whoever they feel will give them the most freebies. The voting base of President Barack Hussein Obama is not even shy about why they are voted for him.


Okay Markle, if you prefer the term equality, let's go with that. To me that's just another way of saying 'let's all play with the same set of rules with an equal chance of making a life for ourselves'.

I'm suggesting that it would be useful and correct if the government, through it's tax policies and programs, made the playing field more level. Wouldn't the country as a whole be better off, more prosperous, healthy, smart, etc. if government acted in such a way as to level the field?

I am not advocating equal outcomes so don't come back with that.

I'm just saying the way things are set up now sure looks to me like (and to most people) that the system is rigged in favor of those folks with the most access to the halls of power. The financial sector/industry comes to mind.

They control congress and how the laws are written (ALEC) so they have the natural advantage of wealth plus they get to write the rules that the rest of the nation must play by. How is that a good and productive situation?

12HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/12/2012, 6:16 pm

Guest


Guest
othershoe1030 wrote:
Markle wrote:

Like all Progressives, you forget EQUALITY. The Constitution says nothing about FAIRNESS, we all have equal opportunities, NO ONE is guaranteed an equal OUTCOME. What you want are rules for FAIRNESS. LIFE is not FAIR.

As for who vote for Democrats or Republicans? As you well know, Democrats vote for whoever they feel will give them the most freebies. The voting base of President Barack Hussein Obama is not even shy about why they are voted for him.


Okay Markle, if you prefer the term equality, let's go with that. To me that's just another way of saying 'let's all play with the same set of rules with an equal chance of making a life for ourselves'.

I'm suggesting that it would be useful and correct if the government, through it's tax policies and programs, made the playing field more level. Wouldn't the country as a whole be better off, more prosperous, healthy, smart, etc. if government acted in such a way as to level the field?

I am not advocating equal outcomes so don't come back with that.

I'm just saying the way things are set up now sure looks to me like (and to most people) that the system is rigged in favor of those folks with the most access to the halls of power. The financial sector/industry comes to mind.

They control congress and how the laws are written (ALEC) so they have the natural advantage of wealth plus they get to write the rules that the rest of the nation must play by. How is that a good and productive situation?

cool let's tax every citizen over 21 at 25% with a minimum mandate of 5k if you refuse to gain employment or make money under the table. the irs would need a few more agents and guns... but what the hell... they're ramping that up for obamacare already. that would be fair... right? isn't "fair" when everyone gets treated the same?

13HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. Empty Re: HOW WE CHOOSE OUR POLITICIANS. on 8/13/2012, 12:00 am

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
PkrBum wrote:

cool let's tax every citizen over 21 at 25% with a minimum mandate of 5k if you refuse to gain employment or make money under the table. the irs would need a few more agents and guns... but what the hell... they're ramping that up for obamacare already. that would be fair... right? isn't "fair" when everyone gets treated the same?

I am not just talking about tax policy. I'm speaking in a broader philosophical manner. How laws are made, who they are designed to help, what role government should play in our country?

We the People seems to have become We the Corporations. Corporations are people my friend, so said Romney.

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