Democrats speak out on Obamacare

Joanimaroni wrote:

knothead wrote:Those who claim that ObamaCare was 'shoved down their throats' are just in denial about the facts.  Was there wheeling and dealing? . . . well duh! Nothing novel about the methods politicians use to get legislation passed.  Those same types of partisan legislative agendas passed in GOP dominated so-called 'red' states are the norm . . . . legislation that is divisive yet, nevertheless are also shoving partisan agendas down the throats of the opposition so welcome to the wicked world of partisan deal making.  The shoved-down-our-throats mantra is nothing more than sour grapes . . . . both sides do it so enough already with the whining.

Sour grapes? Like someone whining that Romney, contrary to what Obama was promising, should have spoken out ( which he did) that millions would lose their health insurance with Obamacare. I would consider that sour grapes and whining. You are right it happens on both sides.

knothead wrote:That's right, knot was trying to blame the mess on Romney.


neko that is just not true and you know better dearie.  What I believe and it has not been refuted is President Obama has not lied period! Wrong on the literal consequences absolutely.  During the failed campaign of Romney this was a subject of much debate and even Romney had no idea that when his opponent (Obama) made his assertions Romney would have called him on it as a falsehood before a cat could lick his butt but ONLY IF HE TOO KNEW AND WAS AWARE OF IT!  He was not, therefore, you can say I tried to blame something on Gov. Romney but that was not true at all.  Merely stating the facts . . .    

Joanimaroni wrote:

knothead wrote:That's right, knot was trying to blame the mess on Romney.


neko that is just not true and you know better dearie.  What I believe and it has not been refuted is President Obama has not lied period! Wrong on the literal consequences absolutely.  During the failed campaign of Romney this was a subject of much debate and even Romney had no idea that when his opponent (Obama) made his assertions Romney would have called him on it as a falsehood before a cat could lick his butt but ONLY IF HE TOO KNEW AND WAS AWARE OF IT!  He was not, therefore, you can say I tried to blame something on Gov. Romney but that was not true at all.  Merely stating the facts . . .    

knothead wrote:
That is an extremely lame attempt to explain the 'silence' from the Romney camp by not making a single utterance that what Obama was saying was, in fact, a lie . . . . if Romney actually knew Obama was being deceitful, inaccurate and/or misleading he would have pounced without question.  He did not; therefore, Obama did not know his statements were literally untrue and that fact alone supports my view that that does not constitute LYING and you gush so much about.  

Inaccurate? Absolutely.
Lying? Not at all.


Nekochan wrote:
Please watch the video.  Romney makes clear that up to 20 million people will lose their current insurance.  He didn't call Obama a liar. How would he know whether Obama was lying or just clueless?  Also, I don't think it is Romney's style to call the President a liar.  Romney presented his position on Obamacare,  based on what he knew about the law.  What else do you want in a candidate?

http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2012-06-28/romney-pledges-to-repeal-obamacare-on-first-day

knothead wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

knothead wrote:That's right, knot was trying to blame the mess on Romney.


neko that is just not true and you know better dearie.  What I believe and it has not been refuted is President Obama has not lied period! Wrong on the literal consequences absolutely.  During the failed campaign of Romney this was a subject of much debate and even Romney had no idea that when his opponent (Obama) made his assertions Romney would have called him on it as a falsehood before a cat could lick his butt but ONLY IF HE TOO KNEW AND WAS AWARE OF IT!  He was not, therefore, you can say I tried to blame something on Gov. Romney but that was not true at all.  Merely stating the facts . . .    

knothead wrote:
That is an extremely lame attempt to explain the 'silence' from the Romney camp by not making a single utterance that what Obama was saying was, in fact, a lie . . . . if Romney actually knew Obama was being deceitful, inaccurate and/or misleading he would have pounced without question.  He did not; therefore, Obama did not know his statements were literally untrue and that fact alone supports my view that that does not constitute LYING and you gush so much about.  

Inaccurate? Absolutely.
Lying? Not at all.


Nekochan wrote:
Please watch the video.  Romney makes clear that up to 20 million people will lose their current insurance.  He didn't call Obama a liar. How would he know whether Obama was lying or just clueless?  Also, I don't think it is Romney's style to call the President a liar.  Romney presented his position on Obamacare,  based on what he knew about the law.  What else do you want in a candidate?

http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2012-06-28/romney-pledges-to-repeal-obamacare-on-first-day

If you believe Romney is above calling Obama a liar in the heat of a losing campaign then you are far more naive than I thought . . . Romney would have called him a liar in a New York second and his handlers would have sounded the alarm but what? Nothing because it wasn't a lie, neither of them was aware and that's the end of it.

nadalfan wrote:the irony here is the anger felt by those who believe Obama lied or misled the public are the same people who supported an administration responsible for thousands of unnecessary deaths, countless wounded soldiers, and over a trillion spent on an unjustified war.  A war based on lies.

please spare us your selective indignation

knothead wrote:I swear I think you and joani and two peas in a pod . . . you both ignore what position I took and your refusal to acknowledge that is kinda weird to put it mildly.  I won't belabor the issue with either of you but Obama did not lie and the fact that Romney also did not lie because they were both in the dark.  If you think I'm blaming anything on the Mittster you would be wrong because I am not.  

knothead wrote:I swear I think you and joani and two peas in a pod . . . you both ignore what position I took and your refusal to acknowledge that is kinda weird to put it mildly.  I won't belabor the issue with either of you but Obama did not lie and the fact that Romney also did not lie because they were both in the dark.  If you think I'm blaming anything on the Mittster you would be wrong because I am not.  

Joanimaroni wrote:

knothead wrote:I swear I think you and joani and two peas in a pod . . . you both ignore what position I took and your refusal to acknowledge that is kinda weird to put it mildly.  I won't belabor the issue with either of you but Obama did not lie and the fact that Romney also did not lie because they were both in the dark.  If you think I'm blaming anything on the Mittster you would be wrong because I am not.  

How was Romney in the dark when he said millions would lose their insurance?

PkrBum wrote:http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/11/13/why-didnt-anyone-raise-an-early-alarm-on-the-potential-number-of-policy-cancellations-under-obamacare/

What if I told you that in February 2010,Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA) questioned the President directly –and specifically on this topic! –at the famous “health care summit” at Blair House?What if I told you that the President agreed outright that eight to nine million people would lose their existing coverage under his health care proposal?

Here’s how the conversation went down:

CANTOR: …Because I don’t think you can answer the question in the positive to say that people will be able to maintain their coverage,people will be able to see the doctors they want,in the kind of bill that you are proposing.

OBAMA: Since you asked me a question,let me respond. The 8 to 9 million people you refer to that might have to change their coverage —keep in mind out of the 300 million Americans that we are talking about —would be folks who the CBO,the Congressional Budget Office, estimates would find the deal in the exchange better —would be a better deal. So,yes,they would change coverage because they got more choice and competition.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:All of the liberals are in denial because their Messiah and his plan turned out to be not worth a piss in a pot and actually uninsures more than it insures. How asinine is that?

knothead wrote:As a Democrat, I too will speak out on the imperfect implementation of the PPACA.  Before so doing it is interesting that I am the first Democrat posting on this thread . . . others are using the opportunity to gleefully get their pound of flesh but, I concede, your ire is not unfounded and I get that.

First, bizguy's analogy between the National Instant Criminal Background Check website to the top to bottom overhaul of healthcare across our nation is simply irrelevant because of the complexities in the latter being overwhelmingly more challenging. It's but one example of the pound of flesh retribution and as I said I do get that.

My hat is off to former President Clinton for coming out with his position advising that this administration should honor their word.  Executing that wish will be difficult . . . I hope it happens but I fear it will not.

Secondly, it has always been my conviction that reform of our health care system from delivery of services to reining in insurance companies from riding rough shod over the ordinary citizens while harvesting obscene profits is, and remains, a noble objective.  We are witnessing the difficulties of executing that policy no matter how noble it may be.

Finally, I have consistently wanted "Obamacare" to be given a chance to work and yes I definitely lay much of the shortcomings on those red states whose sole objective is to destroy Obama but I digress.  I have no specialized knowledge of insurance or any specialized knowledge of where we go from here but the Obama administration has failed the nation by their own ineptness but I hope that there will be some in Washington, both D's and R's, who are more statesman-like and less politicians will stand together to support doable political remedies instead of the non stop blood letting that gets the country and its citizens no where.

knothead wrote:You must be getting pretty lonesome. Even the Democrats are abandoning you and this total disaster.

Oh Mr. Markle, you are so clueless my friend.  I do have the capacity to acknowledge mistakes but that is a trait which you would not recognize.  Yes the administration has done a horrible job with the ACA roll out but you must live with the reality that, in all probability, you will not see another right wing nut job in the WH in your lifetime so think about it as you copy and paste on this forum.  You are the poster child for what is wrong with this nation but you and your ilk will be exterminated bit by bit and I do hope you continue to lead your pathetic miserable existence with the knowledge that your anger goes with you to your grave? Are we clear? Have a great evening . . . I am!

nadalfan wrote:the irony here is the anger felt by those who believe Obama lied or misled the public are the same people who supported an administration responsible for thousands of unnecessary deaths, countless wounded soldiers, and over a trillion spent on an unjustified war.  A war based on lies.

please spare us your selective indignation

knothead wrote: Those who claim that ObamaCare was 'shoved down their throats' are just in denial about the facts.  Was there wheeling and dealing? . . . well duh! Nothing novel about the methods politicians use to get legislation passed.  Those same types of partisan legislative agendas passed in GOP dominated so-called 'red' states are the norm . . . . legislation that is divisive yet, nevertheless are also shoving partisan agendas down the throats of the opposition so welcome to the wicked world of partisan deal making.  The shoved-down-our-throats mantra is nothing more than sour grapes . . . . both sides do it so enough already with the whining.

nadalfan wrote:the irony here is the anger felt by those who believe Obama lied or misled the public are the same people who supported an administration responsible for thousands of unnecessary deaths, countless wounded soldiers, and over a trillion spent on an unjustified war.  A war based on lies.

please spare us your selective indignation

Nekochan wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:All of the liberals are in denial because their Messiah and his plan turned out to be not worth a piss in a pot and actually uninsures more than it insures. How asinine is that?

They were too busy calling Republicans "haters of the poor and elderly" to pay attention to the warnings being voiced.

Sal wrote: