The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route.

Hospital Bob

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http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-pollution-northeastern-china-20131022,0,5024464.story#axzz2ivszSDd2

Nekochan

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And this is why it's crazy that China was largely exempt from the Kyoto Protocol.

Hospital Bob

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Nekochan wrote:And this is why it's crazy that China was largely exempt from the Kyoto Protocol.

For the explanation as to why that happened, like always, follow the money.

Much of the world's economy, and especially that of our country, is now absolutely dependent on maintaining the cheap goods China exports.
If Chinese industry was required to meet the demands of the Kyoto Protocol, the price of an I-phone would probably go up several hundred percent. And so would everything else we import from China.
That would cripple the world's consumer based economies including our own.
It would create so much unemployment in our country that it would probably lead to an economic depression.

So they had a choice. Either keep those economies afloat, or force China to clean it's air.

Nekochan

Nekochan

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Bob wrote:

Nekochan wrote:And this is why it's crazy that China was largely exempt from the Kyoto Protocol.

For the explanation as to why that happened, like always, follow the money.

Much of the world's economy, and especially that of our country, is now absolutely dependent on maintaining the cheap goods China exports.
If Chinese industry was required to meet the demands of the Kyoto Protocol, the price of an I-phone would probably go up several hundred percent. And so would everything else we import from China.
That would cripple the world's consumer based economies including our own.
It would create so much unemployment in our country that it would probably lead to an economic depression.

So they had a choice. Either keep those economies afloat, or force China to clean it's air.

That's an interesting take on the issue. They other opinion is that if China was made to clean up its act, they would have been forced to play more fair in the world market.

Hospital Bob

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That's an interesting take on the issue. They other opinion is that if China was made to clean up its act, they would have been forced to play more fair in the world market.

Do you think the Walmart family and the bosses at Apple, and the shareholders of the thousands of other western companies want China to spend the hundreds of billions of dollars required to deal with this pollution?
Do you think the tens of millions of these companies' employees want that?
Do you think the tens (actually hundreds) of millions of American consumers want that?

Which do you think all those people want? "Fairness"? Or the profits and wages and the ability to buy cheap goods?

Nekochan

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I think you make a very compelling point.

Hospital Bob

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If you really want to appreciate the situation we're in, you need do only two things.

1. Observe who the people are who rally around Donald Trump and others when they bash China.

2. Then pay a visit to Harbor Freight and observe the same blue collar types in coveralls lined up to buy that merchandise.

Nekochan

Nekochan

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Bob wrote:If you really want to appreciate the situation we're in, you need do only two things.

1. Observe who the people are who rally around Donald Trump and others when they bash China.

2. Then pay a visit to Harbor Freight and observe the same blue collar types in coveralls lined up to buy that merchandise.

lol, we were just at Harbor Freight yesterday. Hubby forgot to take his coupons. Crying or Very sad

TEOTWAWKI

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What does any of this havre to do with Nazis ?

Nekochan

Nekochan

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TEOTWAWKI wrote:What does any of this havre to do with Nazis ?

No idea, but I'm sure that Seaoat will get to the bottom of it. Twisted Evil

Hospital Bob

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TEOTWAWKI wrote:What does any of this havre to do with Nazis ?

I apologize for taking the nazi forum off-topic. lol

Guest

Guest

Nekochan wrote:

Bob wrote:If you really want to appreciate the situation we're in, you need do only two things.

1. Observe who the people are who rally around Donald Trump and others when they bash China.

2. Then pay a visit to Harbor Freight and observe the same blue collar types in coveralls lined up to buy that merchandise.

lol, we were just at Harbor Freight yesterday. Hubby forgot to take his coupons.

If you can find the coupons on your phone they can scan the code from your phone. I dont buy much from HF but I did buy a 5 horse gas motor for my tiller. Unreal, How they can make a operating motor for 100 dollars. It has received very good reviews. Mine has worked great all season. Just sayin...

ZVUGKTUBM

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Hey, one of the reasons the Banksters offshored all of the U.S. manufacturing interest to China is that they would not have to comply with any environmental laws (along with being able to use Chinese slave labor [i.e., very low wages] in their factories).

Markle

Markle

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Nekochan wrote:And this is why it's crazy that China was largely exempt from the Kyoto Protocol.

I believe India, also with a smog/pollution problem is exempt as well.

It is NOT about the smog and pollution, it is about the UN's, and President Barack Hussein Obama's strong desire to redistribute wealth.

Hospital Bob

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Say what, markle? How in the name of all that's stupid does this have anything whatever to do with obama wanting to redistribute the wealth.
You are now so obsessed with obama that anytime anything is discussed it can always be explained only as obama.
That kind of bad guy exists only in batman movies and children's fairytales, markle.

Markle

Markle

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Bob wrote:

Nekochan wrote:And this is why it's crazy that China was largely exempt from the Kyoto Protocol.

For the explanation as to why that happened, like always, follow the money.

Much of the world's economy, and especially that of our country, is now absolutely dependent on maintaining the cheap goods China exports.
If Chinese industry was required to meet the demands of the Kyoto Protocol, the price of an I-phone would probably go up several hundred percent. And so would everything else we import from China.
That would cripple the world's consumer based economies including our own.
It would create so much unemployment in our country that it would probably lead to an economic depression.

So they had a choice. Either keep those economies afloat, or force China to clean it's air.

China is working hard to clean up their atmosphere but they have a LOT of work to do. Much of their pollution is from manufacturing plants and they can't simply shut them down.

They are building one, very high tech, low pollution coal burning power plants per month but they have so many that are very dirty as well. They also have more nuclear plants being built and on the drawing boards than the rest of the world combined. They are also making strides with solar energy. But when you have well over ONE BILLION PEOPLE, that's a lot of people to provide for and catch up with the rest of the developed world.

Nekochan

Nekochan

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Markle wrote:

Nekochan wrote:And this is why it's crazy that China was largely exempt from the Kyoto Protocol.

I believe India, also with a smog/pollution problem is exempt as well.

It is NOT about the smog and pollution, it is about the UN's, and President Barack Hussein Obama's strong desire to redistribute wealth.

Yes, China and India were exempt.

Markle

Markle

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Bob wrote:Say what, markle? How in the name of all that's stupid does this have anything whatever to do with obama wanting to redistribute the wealth.
You are now so obsessed with obama that anytime anything is discussed it can always be explained only as obama.
That kind of bad guy exists only in batman movies and children's fairytales, markle.

Partly I bring it up to get under your skin. Also, do you disagree that one of President Barack Hussein Obama primary goals is to redistribute wealth? For example, ObamaCare.

Last edited by Markle on 10/27/2013, 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hospital Bob

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Yes obama is into redistribution of wealth. But that has nothing to do with why we sent the jobs to china and why we consume so much chinese exports.
And a republican president (mccain or romney) would have signed off on the same Kyoto Protocols.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

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Bob wrote:Say what, markle? How in the name of all that's stupid does this have anything whatever to do with obama wanting to redistribute the wealth.
You are now so obsessed with obama that anytime anything is discussed it can always be explained only as obama.
That kind of bad guy exists only in batman movies and children's fairytales, markle.

Markle can't answer any thread without spinning it politically so it looks like Democrats are awful and Republicans only represent good. He lives in a very strange reality.

Markle

Markle

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Bob wrote:Yes obama is into redistribution of wealth. But that has nothing to do with why we sent the jobs to china and why we consume so much chinese exports.
And a republican president (mccain or romney) would have signed off on the same Kyoto Protocols.

The Kyoto Protocol was not ratified by congress and you have no way of knowing if Senator McCain or Gov. Romney might have signed the accord. Largely it is dead.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

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Markle wrote:

Bob wrote:Yes obama is into redistribution of wealth. But that has nothing to do with why we sent the jobs to china and why we consume so much chinese exports.
And a republican president (mccain or romney) would have signed off on the same Kyoto Protocols.

The Kyoto Protocol was not ratified by congress and you have no way of knowing if Senator McCain or Gov. Romney might have signed the accord. Largely it is dead.

Okay you found me out and proved I don't know squat about that Kyoto thing other than all I need to know. That the environmentalists are on one side and and the establishment republicans are on the other. And McCain and Romney are as pro-business establishment republicans as it gets.
Neither would ever support anything that causes business to spend fortunes for environmental reasons. And you know that as well as I do. If you don't then you're really living in a political fantasy world.

Markle

Markle

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Bob wrote:

Markle wrote:

Bob wrote:Yes obama is into redistribution of wealth. But that has nothing to do with why we sent the jobs to china and why we consume so much chinese exports.
And a republican president (mccain or romney) would have signed off on the same Kyoto Protocols.

The Kyoto Protocol was not ratified by congress and you have no way of knowing if Senator McCain or Gov. Romney might have signed the accord. Largely it is dead.

Okay you found me out and proved I don't know squat about that Kyoto thing other than all I need to know. That the environmentalists are on one side and and the establishment republicans are on the other. And McCain and Romney are as pro-business establishment republicans as it gets.
Neither would ever support anything that causes business to spend fortunes for environmental reasons. And you know that as well as I do. If you don't then you're really living in a political fantasy world.

There has to be an economic balance. The UN's goal is to redistribute wealth from rich nations to poorer nations. They can do that through methods like the Kyoto Protocol which punishes productive clean nations and does nothing to those with the massive pollution problems.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

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Markle wrote: The UN's goal is to redistribute wealth from rich nations to poorer nations. They can do that through methods like the Kyoto Protocol which punishes productive clean nations and does nothing to those with the massive pollution problems.

That part of your reply confirms that you are now one of the same people you refer to when you post the "Conspiraloon" cartoon. lol

Markle

Markle

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Bob wrote:

Markle wrote: The UN's goal is to redistribute wealth from rich nations to poorer nations. They can do that through methods like the Kyoto Protocol which punishes productive clean nations and does nothing to those with the massive pollution problems.

That part of your reply confirms that you are now one of the same people you refer to when you post the "Conspiraloon" cartoon. lol

No conspiracy about it. The United Nations has great visions of running the world and the UN visualizes that happening by taxing the wealthier nations in order to help the poorer nations.

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The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route.

1 The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 10:31 am

Hospital Bob

2 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 10:34 am

Nekochan

3 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 10:42 am

Hospital Bob

4 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 10:45 am

Nekochan

5 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 10:53 am

Hospital Bob

6 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 10:57 am

Nekochan

7 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 11:00 am

Hospital Bob

8 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 11:05 am

Nekochan

9 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 11:12 am

TEOTWAWKI

10 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 11:19 am

Nekochan

11 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 11:23 am

Hospital Bob

12 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 12:24 pm

Guest

13 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 1:42 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

14 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 6:56 pm

Markle

15 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 7:01 pm

Hospital Bob

16 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 7:04 pm

Markle

17 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 7:10 pm

Nekochan

18 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 7:15 pm

Markle

19 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 7:19 pm

Hospital Bob

20 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 7:21 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

21 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 8:33 pm

Markle

22 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/27/2013, 9:07 pm

Hospital Bob

23 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/28/2013, 1:44 am

Markle

24 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/28/2013, 1:59 am

Hospital Bob

25 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route. 10/28/2013, 2:08 am

Markle

26 Re: The smog is so thick in China that visibility is reduced to 20 yards. Municipal bus drivers lost their way in the haze. In one case, a morning rush hour bus that left at 5:30 wandered around for three hours before the driver found the route.

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