Mr Seaoats. Please call Mayor Hayward ASAP

This is crazy. 12 months to figure how to "Break Even?" All they need is a dollar a ticket surcharge. Seaoats has explained over and over again how simple it is and that there is not really a problem. People are still talking about shops and Marinas. Simply silly folks, where did they ever get those ideas?

Ricks Blog on a Town Meeting
The mayor also described the Community Maritime Park that he helped complete, and which his Neighborhood Services department has run for over year, as a deal that he walked into. He said that he would come up with some solutions to make it break-even within 12 months.

A resident took to the podium to discuss his concerns about the Pensacola Maritime Park. The man said Pensacola residents have been “duped” with regards to the park. He said he envisioned a “beautiful waterfront facility” where “shoppers, diners, tourists, visiting friends and citizens can go for a day’s activities – a Pensacola showcase.”

Instead, he said, he sees a “for-profit baseball stadium and a parking lot.”

“Now I read in the paper we owe for the facility that’s placed here for paying customers. Maybe you can explain why we always get the short end of the stick when there are high finances involved?” he asked Hayward.

“You’re correct,” Hayward said. “I don’t want to make excuses but myself and Councilwoman Myers, we walked into this deal and you’re right. I envisioned shops, a marina and us not getting our brains beaten in by Destin or Gulf Shores or Fairhope. I mean I could start making a list.”

A recent financial report claims that a $400,000 subsidy is needed to keep the Community Maritime Park running. The Community Maritime Park Associates Board also owes the Community Redevelopment Agency $500,000 for the work needed to complete the amphitheater.

To get things back on track, Hayward said the city needs to get stadium naming rights and start leasing the property in the park.

“We all know what we’re up against,” he said. “But I think we’ll be able to bring some solutions to the table in the next 12 months that we’ll be able to break even down there.”

If I give you a dead horse, will you beat it until it stops faking...?

I wanted this project to succeed, but hallmark is right. If all we are going to get out of this is a baseball stadium...well...we're screwed. The awful truth is that no one cares about baseball anymore. The sport has been tanking for years and world series ratings continue to plunge. Baseball has a few regional strongholds around the country but, for the most part, no one cares anymore. This is particularly true in Florida. The younger demographics care less and less about baseball with each poll. One can be morbidly obese and not only play, but be a super star at the major league level these days; it isn't attracting anywhere near our greatest athletes.

Add to the waning popularity of the sport in general the fact that the Pensacola economy has never been kind to semi-pro sports teams in the past, and you get a perfect bad-idea-storm. The Pensacola economy cannot even support a GAP.

I don't know anyone who has actually paid money for a ticket to a Wahoos game. I never have. People are being put in the stands by their employers and whatever sort of block deals they were able to secure when the stadium opened. We will eventually reach a point in time at which - even if the tickets are free from your employer - no one will go. I talk to others who have access to free tickets and none of them have been to a game this year. I probably won't go to a game this year either, even though it's free to me. In the end, the product here is baseball. Each game I have been to I'm checking my watch by the 3rd inning thinking to myself "OK. Let's wrap this up.", and then I'm walking to my car around the 6th inning or earlier.

Stick a fork in it.

This Bait-n-Switch crime will be a burden on the city/county for years to come.. All involved should payback every penny and be thrown in jail to keep other Crooks from doing the same..

Baseball ratings over the last several decades.



Source: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wstv.shtml

Now that was a good start to a discussions without fibs. Thank you. First, I got my shots and cat scans today, and will see how much growth in the tumors. If the docs say I can travel........my big head will follow my feet, and I will try to schedule a meeting with the Mayor, and Mr. Studer. I will discuss only what I have seen first hand with the Mumford and Sons concert series in their four city stop in America. It is a whole new animal in concerts which I believe Pensacola needs to get into the mix for the 2014 tour, with a Mumford or other top act. Pensacola has the central business district with my wife and I have attended two Pelican drops and many other gallery and special events which were just like the after parties for Mumford. Additionally with simple planting of grass on old stinky and putting up temporary fencing, the areas adjacent to the park and Fort Pickens could easily accommodate 10k campers.

Jam Productions was involved in the Mumford concert series, but they are also on the leading edge of camping concert weekends where they generate between 40-60 dollars of extra profit for the city which hosts the concert series. This usually means at least 400k to the host city with Jam taking care of security, parking, buses and ferries, and camping areas. Once an annual camping series is put in place, the key is the involvement of downtown business owners who lease in front of their businesses on Saturday night and generate profits for downtown business interests. The after party can be entered for as little as 6-10 bucks with profits shared with Jam and the city.

I know you think the park is a mistake. It is not. Folks have to talk about how to improve the same. It takes vision. To see how successful Monterrey and Dixon were in the Mumford concert series gives unlimited revenue income into a park like Maritime. If I am well enough to travel......I will travel before the end of the baseball season. I cannot be embarrassed. I have stood in front of head honchos selling concepts my whole life.....so the silly seaoat from the PNJ will take my 10 minutes of their time.......this only takes coordination and vision......Pensacola is a winner.....it is way past the time to think winner and score a victory.....not pie in the sky optimism.....cold hard experience..........

Put a fork in what

The Heat?

Nope....you should know better Boards.....lets do a little less birther stats and try a little relevance:

Minor League Baseball continued a strong 2012 on the attendance front after attracting 8,407,103 fans last month, bringing the industry’s season total to 22,346,686 through June -- up 4.2 percent from June 2011.

The 176 clubs in 15 leagues attracted 901,800 more fans than they did through June last year.

http://www.ballparkdigest.com/201207065145/minor-league-baseball/news/milb-attendance-up-again-in-june-2012

Minor league baseball set attendance records for five straight seasons from 2004-08 before the recession slowed its growth. If this season's pace continues, it would mark the second straight year that minor league attendance held relatively steady. Last year’s figure was just 0.4 percent off 2010, prompting Minor League Baseball president Pat O’Conner to says “flat is the new up” during such challenging financial times. The same appears true this year, though a bigger finish appeared possible early this season.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/business/2012/09/minor-league-attendance-may-come-up-short/

The truth is that Minor league baseball is kicking butt despite the recession. Folks all over the nation would love to have Pensacola's first year attendance......and with the beach crowd on vacation.....the market is slowly being cultivated into some huge numbers in five years......

World Series TV ratings to prove the park is a failure.....come on now...you are playing with big boyz who pull your chain about the small market Pacer/Spur game....which lets that above average Heat team get a freebee into the finals.....yep TV markets even in baseball want the Yankees, boston, chicago, and La.....when they do not get them....well your stats are correct.

It takes vision.


Of course it does and if you remember, we voters voted on a Maritime Park plan but we got the opposite of what we voted for. Should we just sit back and accept it? No.

The Wahoos no longer lead the attendance record. As I discussed in another thread, We do not have a anchor downtown that draws people to the Park or to anything else. Bringing the Kitty Hawk here will be the best damn anchor we could ever get ahold of. Great for everything downtown, The County and our beaches.

Seaoat, I think we should change your handle to Seagoat...you're reminding me a lot of my ex...a Capricorn...when is your birthday?



http://www.gods-and-monsters.com/capricorn-goat.html

The sea goat is often referred to as the 'Capricorn goat' because of its association with the Capricorn zodiac sign. What you choose to call it is up to you. The creature remains the same.

The sea goat has the body of a goat from the waist up and the tail of fish. It's a very unusual creature, even for mythical standards, because the two halves don't seem to make a whole lot of sense together. Goats are designed to climb steep and rocky cliffs while fish are designed to move smoothly through water. Neither half compliments the other. In fact, they almost make it a completely impossible creature altogether.

Most mythologists have the origin of the Capricorn goat screwed up, just as they have Capricorn mythology screwed up. Some believe the image of the sea goat comes from the story of Typhon, the king of monsters. They attribute the image to the god Pan, a satyr, who jumped into the river to flee Typhon's assault on the gods. Others say that there was a separate figure named Aegipan (notice the similar name), who was the sea goat of Capricorn legend. There are no real conclusive clues as to where this mysterious god came from or where else he is referenced. In my opinion, that's because he's a sorry excuse for a myth that nobody knew what else to do with.

The best explanation of the Capricorn goat comes from the Capricorn zodiac sign myth that was discovered in the writings known as the Scriptures of Delphi. You can read the full Capricorn zodiac sign myth here, but I'll also give you the quick breakdown.

Basically the sea goats came from the first sea goat, Pricus, who was created by the god Chronos (Greek mythology). The legend goes that eventually all the sea goats made their way inevitably to land where they became the four-legged goats that we know today, leaving Pricus as the sole sea goat and the figure in Capricorn mythology.

This, naturally, explains why there are no sea goats today. Because you needed an explanation.

"Pricus"....

I keep hearing you talk about the "Old Stinky" propery. The City doesnt own it. They are trying to trade their sanitation service for it. 3.1 Million is the asking price, I think. The only use for old stinky will be to visit the Mayors new house or his Realty company.
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OK, everyone. I think it is time that I confess that I am a billionaire. I want to gain political will so that I can get you guys to fund this gigantic (in terms of your ability to fund) operation that involves restructuring our local economy around the art of VCR repair! I know, I know. "No one uses VCRs anymore!". That is what you're saying, right? Big deal! If we build it, they will come!

That is this entire project.

My idea for a winter olympic training center w toboggan run and skating rink would waste more money.

Come to think of it... it might have drawn more attendance too.

boards of FL wrote:OK, everyone. I think it is time that I confess that I am a billionaire. I want to gain political will so that I can get you guys to fund this gigantic (in terms of your ability to fund) operation that involves restructuring our local economy around the art of VCR repair! I know, I know. "No one uses VCRs anymore!". That is what you're saying, right? Big deal! If we build it, they will come!

That is this entire project.

you do make me laugh daddy

boards of FL wrote:OK, everyone. I think it is time that I confess that I am a billionaire. I want to gain political will so that I can get you guys to fund this gigantic (in terms of your ability to fund) operation that involves restructuring our local economy around the art of VCR repair! I know, I know. "No one uses VCRs anymore!". That is what you're saying, right? Big deal! If we build it, they will come!

That is this entire project.

Will we have to have a annual concert by the Mumbley Pegs every year to support it? If so I am all for it....................
Lots of old XXX VCR tapes that need a good player. Should be a "Slam Dunk"

. wrote:

boards of FL wrote:OK, everyone. I think it is time that I confess that I am a billionaire. I want to gain political will so that I can get you guys to fund this gigantic (in terms of your ability to fund) operation that involves restructuring our local economy around the art of VCR repair! I know, I know. "No one uses VCRs anymore!". That is what you're saying, right? Big deal! If we build it, they will come!

That is this entire project.

you do make me laugh daddy

You gonna play with your tits for daddy again and Skype him like a good little slut...?

Ever bark like a dog...?

Maritime Park remains an unmitigated success. I argued for four years that the city was leaving too much profit on the table, and this operation was going to be very profitable and that a minor league team would come to Pensacola.

I was laughed off the PNJ forum. This is softball boyz.....you got nothing. I was called a studerite, I was called an idiot, and I was lectured that the Pelicans would never put more than 900 people a game in the stadium, that there would be no profit from baseball operations, and that the project was always only about baseball as an anchor. When I gave examples of Spring training profits from concessions, I was laughed at. I argued that the City must never give up concessions, and people laughed at me telling me how much money are you going to make on 900 people.

Well by my calculations the City left a half million on the table during contract negotiations. Now some of you argue conspiracy, but if anybody read the paper, the naysayers had this park as being unprofitable. It is a gold mine. So when the city was negotiating, they were basically listening to the naysayers.....who I always argued initially were part of the reason people gave up concessions......nobody gives up concessions.....nobody does not have an extra sales tax on concessions, and nobody gives up naming rights on a stadium. Yet, the naysayers convinced folks that no minor league team would come, and there would be 900 people average per game.

There is lined up about 400k of leaseholds which will be pumping money into the coffers, but the contract allows surcharges on the tickets. A buck surcharge is not going to be liked by baseball operations, but it covers the deficit for a few years, and once the leaseholds are in place, there will be no shortfall......none. My guess is that Mr. Studer will be making a million a year for the first five years on baseball operations. I do not see deficits in four years, and the 1.6 million if four straight years of subsidy is chosen rather than the surcharge will be back charged on renewal of the lease where concessions are recaptured. There is no city in America which would not die for this park.....none. Once the political infighting is over, the horizon looks very rosy for Pensacola......and yes, If you ask me why the money was left on the table....conspiracy by Mr. Studer......or failure of the naysayers to see the profit in this operation.....it is pretty easy to see that Studer had to do nothing.....the naysayers sold the contract each day in the paper.....it could never be profitable.....yea, tell that to Mr. Studer.....the more vicious the personal attacks, and the more fruit loop the predictions of 900 people a game.....he was guaranteeing profit for a decade.

you choose to blame people who had nothing to do with it

Nonsense. I was debating this subject for three years in the PNJ. Nonsense. the naysayers simply argued that this project would not be successful financially. When I tried to tell them with real world examples that minor league baseball has been in my experience very profitable, and that concessions were a key component of profitability where the city should never give up concessions......I was laughed off the PNJ forum and called a studer employee. No the naysayer denied profitability, just like they are still denying the same now. These operations are tremendously profitable, exactly like I predicted. I also correctly predicted that the naysayers had created such an environment of negativity, the City had to give every benefit to the baseball operations.........because nobody was going to attend. When I said this park would do over a quarter million the first year.....I was laughed off the PNJ.......no the atmosphere of negativity made Studer's contract easy.....and I mapped this out in detail......and now you want to tell me this did not happen.......sorry.....you were wrong then, and you are wrong now......there is almost a million dollars plus of direct profits from baseball operations alone, without considering on dime of the other leaseholds. It is simple math. It was foreseeable. The idiocy which spewed negatively from the paper set the baseline for negotiations, and the City gave away the store exactly as I predicted.

BUT HERE IS THE CONCEPT YOU STILL DO NOT COMPREHEND.....THE PARK IS TURNING A PROFIT.

They thought they were building a 2,000 seat stadium!!! That is what they were contracted to do. But the "naysayers" made them build a 5000 seat park. LOL

Please do not play poker.....it could get ugly. Four years ago on the pages of the PNJ, I alone argued that the Pelicans would never play a game in the new stadium, and that a minor league team would play in Pensacola. It was obvious to anybody who had seen minor league ball what was going to happen.

Folks like yourself roasted and laughed at me. X and Skip, told me flat out it was impossible to get a minor league team. I said clearly they were clueless, that this stadium was not being built for the Pelicans......geez.....you still act surprised. The flop is ace king ten, and you have a pair of queens and you go all in on the idea that folks are going to risk everything on a pair of queens.....never a thought that someone of the ten players is going to have an ace or king......incredible how the same faulty logic rears its head up again and again.

EARTH TO HALLMARK.......THE PARK IS PROFITABLE........AND YOU STILL DO NOT SEE THIS.....INCREDIBLE.

Now I did my part in the PNJ. I tried repeatedly to have folks focus on the profits and make sure too much was not left on the table, but to continue to argue that this thing is not profitable is conceptually whacked.....your problem is that what I begged for three years got ignored, and now you do not like the allocation of the profit.....so please find some weak minded person to buy into your argument that this park is a failure....it is not....it is a huge success which is growing.........and the citizen's own it......they will do better in years 10-30, but I still argue that the profits are so great, they still will do well in years 5-10.

So you knew all along that the Pelicans would never play at Studerville? Why in Gods name did they contact to build a stadium for them, then have to revise the plans and the contract? You should have told Hoar construction. They could have used the info.

Oats says " I said clearly they were clueless, that this stadium was not being built for the Pelicans......


Hoar construction
Initially, we were hired to build a stadium for the Pensacola Pelicans, an independent minor league team.[b] After installing the foundation and starting the structural steel, there was a change in the game plan: an existing AA Southern League team would be moving to this stadium.

Oats says " I said clearly they were clueless, that this stadium was not being built for the Pelicans......

I listened to what Mr. Studer had said to the PNJ......I listened. He made it clear that they eventually would like to get a minor league team. It was laughed at, but I argued that this was going to happen from the git go....you would have to be brought to school on a little bus to think that this beautiful park would not have a minor league team eventually. It just happened sooner than I think Studer even expected. It was a home run to get them so soon. I also argued from day one that the stadium was too small. That they should be building this for a minimum of 7k people......this is not rocket science. It is wildly profitable.......and you deny the same.....at least BP no longer is saying the debt is 100 million.....he is using a connotation which takes into account debt servicing....not debt. When will a light bulb go off in your head.....when will you admit the profitability of this park and the plan......you chase your tail with false concepts and try to paint this as a failure......a zero sum game where the park is a failure....you fail to recognize its success, and the division of the success in the current time frame is unequal, but the success is measurable in dollars and cents. It always has been win/win......not your silly lose/lose paradigm.