Obamacare architect- Law is beyond comprehension

othershoe1030 wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:When I saw the title of the thread I thought it was referring to the man who created the health care plan in Mass. after which the ACA was modeled. Here's a short interview with him. Some of the questions are out of date because the interview was given before the Supreme Court ruled on the Constitutionality of the individual mandate. Let's not forget where this plan was first put into play and who did that...Romney, and when he was governor he was proud of it too.

3. What are the major differences between Romney’s and Obama’s plans?
They are the same bleeping bill! More seriously, the core of the ACA [Affordable Care Act] is exactly the same as what we did here in Massachusetts, which I like to call a “three-legged stool”: end discrimination in insurance markets, mandate insurance coverage, and subsidize that coverage for the poor. The federal law is then more ambitious because, unlike in Mass., it takes on cost control.

6. Why is health care so expensive in the U.S.? Does illegal immigration cause this?
Illegal immigration has very little to do with it—most illegal immigrants use little health care. It is so expensive because (a) we pay higher prices for medical goods and services than the rest of the world, and (b) we treat patients much too intensively, wasting spending that doesn’t improve health.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/29/10-obamacare-questions-answered-by-mit-economist-jonathan-gruber.html

RoMnEy isn't POTUS and he never intended to have this type of system nationwide as Obama and Pelosi shoved down everyone's throats.

I was bringing the fact of the true designer of the ACA back into the conversation because the headline of your thread was taken from an article that incorrectly claimed Rockefeller was the chief architect and he was not. It was an attempt on my part to not let history get rewritten. It doesn't matter what Romney intended or didn't intend, Gruber was the main author of the plan, the one in Mass. and the national one.

Chrissy wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:When I saw the title of the thread I thought it was referring to the man who created the health care plan in Mass. after which the ACA was modeled. Here's a short interview with him. Some of the questions are out of date because the interview was given before the Supreme Court ruled on the Constitutionality of the individual mandate. Let's not forget where this plan was first put into play and who did that...Romney, and when he was governor he was proud of it too.

3. What are the major differences between Romney’s and Obama’s plans?
They are the same bleeping bill! More seriously, the core of the ACA [Affordable Care Act] is exactly the same as what we did here in Massachusetts, which I like to call a “three-legged stool”: end discrimination in insurance markets, mandate insurance coverage, and subsidize that coverage for the poor. The federal law is then more ambitious because, unlike in Mass., it takes on cost control.

6. Why is health care so expensive in the U.S.? Does illegal immigration cause this?
Illegal immigration has very little to do with it—most illegal immigrants use little health care. It is so expensive because (a) we pay higher prices for medical goods and services than the rest of the world, and (b) we treat patients much too intensively, wasting spending that doesn’t improve health.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/29/10-obamacare-questions-answered-by-mit-economist-jonathan-gruber.html

RoMnEy isn't POTUS and he never intended to have this type of system nationwide as Obama and Pelosi shoved down everyone's throats.

I was bringing the fact of the true designer of the ACA back into the conversation because the headline of your thread was taken from an article that incorrectly claimed Rockefeller was the chief architect and he was not. It was an attempt on my part to not let history get rewritten. It doesn't matter what Romney intended or didn't intend, Gruber was the main author of the plan, the one in Mass. and the national one.

you cant call people who done what ever designers of this bill, romneys plan was a state plan, here states ran the system and it was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fucking much shorter and had NONE of the other federal liberties obamacare does.

but try and turn the shit away from your party as usual, it must be email that went out to yall lol, blame blame were going down in flames LOLOLOLOLOL

the left wrote this monster, this is nothing like any other bill your just too fucking stupid to know that. don't blame this on any republicans, its all yours.

othershoe1030 wrote:

Chrissy wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:When I saw the title of the thread I thought it was referring to the man who created the health care plan in Mass. after which the ACA was modeled. Here's a short interview with him. Some of the questions are out of date because the interview was given before the Supreme Court ruled on the Constitutionality of the individual mandate. Let's not forget where this plan was first put into play and who did that...Romney, and when he was governor he was proud of it too.

3. What are the major differences between Romney’s and Obama’s plans?
They are the same bleeping bill! More seriously, the core of the ACA [Affordable Care Act] is exactly the same as what we did here in Massachusetts, which I like to call a “three-legged stool”: end discrimination in insurance markets, mandate insurance coverage, and subsidize that coverage for the poor. The federal law is then more ambitious because, unlike in Mass., it takes on cost control.

6. Why is health care so expensive in the U.S.? Does illegal immigration cause this?
Illegal immigration has very little to do with it—most illegal immigrants use little health care. It is so expensive because (a) we pay higher prices for medical goods and services than the rest of the world, and (b) we treat patients much too intensively, wasting spending that doesn’t improve health.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/29/10-obamacare-questions-answered-by-mit-economist-jonathan-gruber.html

RoMnEy isn't POTUS and he never intended to have this type of system nationwide as Obama and Pelosi shoved down everyone's throats.

I was bringing the fact of the true designer of the ACA back into the conversation because the headline of your thread was taken from an article that incorrectly claimed Rockefeller was the chief architect and he was not. It was an attempt on my part to not let history get rewritten. It doesn't matter what Romney intended or didn't intend, Gruber was the main author of the plan, the one in Mass. and the national one.

you cant call people who done what ever designers of this bill, romneys plan was a state plan, here states ran the system and it was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fucking much shorter and had NONE of the other federal liberties obamacare does.

but try and turn the shit away from your party as usual, it must be email that went out to yall lol, blame blame were going down in flames LOLOLOLOLOL

the left wrote this monster, this is nothing like any other bill your just too fucking stupid to know that. don't blame this on any republicans, its all yours.

It is so much better than the old status quo I can't believe it. I am so glad it passed. You know it is the best thing ever!

PkrBum wrote:It's too bad that those who accept these utilitarian solutions will not feel the ultimate consequences.

PkrBum wrote:I donno... I think obamacare is designed to fail... and most leftists really want a fully socialized single provider.

othershoe1030 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I donno... I think obamacare is designed to fail... and most leftists really want a fully socialized single provider.

I think it will have to be changed along the way because we couldn't get it set up the way we wanted. I agree, single payer is the only thing that makes sense but it was too big a change to make all at once. Too many people making money in the insurance and health care industries. The pharmaceutical companies didn't want to give up charging Americans more for the same medication than they charge in other countries. Who would want to give that up?

VectorMan wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I donno... I think obamacare is designed to fail... and most leftists really want a fully socialized single provider.

I think it will have to be changed along the way because we couldn't get it set up the way we wanted. I agree, single payer is the only thing that makes sense but it was too big a change to make all at once. Too many people making money in the insurance and health care industries. The pharmaceutical companies didn't want to give up charging Americans more for the same medication than they charge in other countries. Who would want to give that up?

That's a problem to me. Why wasn't it set up the way you wanted? Why did Pelosi say it had to be passed to find out what is in it? That's a serious problem in my book. Makes her sound like a complete moron. You'd think she wouldn't want people to think that about her. Oh well, it may have already been too late for that. LOL

Single payer is the only thing that makes sense? Be careful what you wish for. Unless you're old and don't care about the health care of future Americans. Carry on and lean forward.

Edit: Just noticed your age under your avatar. You're no spring chicken. I guess you get grandfathered-in.

PkrBum wrote:I donno... I think obamacare is designed to fail... and most leftists really want a fully socialized single provider.

PkrBum wrote:I'm just wondering who you think Obama caved to or compromised with? No pubs supported obamacare and none voted for it. The dems that held out were bribed to gain the required votes to pass the bill. OS was just complaining about rewriting history... but usually it requires a longer period of time to allow people to forget the actual events. Lol... it's disingenuous at best to credit or blame the right for any part of the aca today... try again in a decade or two.

PBulldog2 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I donno... I think obamacare is designed to fail... and most leftists really want a fully socialized single provider.

Yup, you nailed it. I'm the leftist/downdist poster here, and I fully support single payer.

I may be a libertarian/anarchist when it comes to most issues, but by gosh, if I have to pay taxes then I want my taxes to pay for something other than war and corporate bailouts, dammit.

President Obama caved when he agreed to the ACA, but like OS wrote, I suppose some change is better than no change at all. Like you wrote, PKR, I, too have come to the conclusion that Obamacare is designed to fail. I don't think that's a bad thing, because the next step will be single payer.

PBulldog2 wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I donno... I think obamacare is designed to fail... and most leftists really want a fully socialized single provider.

Yup, you nailed it. I'm the leftist/downdist poster here, and I fully support single payer.

I may be a libertarian/anarchist when it comes to most issues, but by gosh, if I have to pay taxes then I want my taxes to pay for something other than war and corporate bailouts, dammit.

President Obama caved when he agreed to the ACA, but like OS wrote, I suppose some change is better than no change at all. Like you wrote, PKR, I, too have come to the conclusion that Obamacare is designed to fail. I don't think that's a bad thing, because the next step will be single payer.

PkrBum wrote:The solution to the crisis will likely be more like a morph than a socialization... no matter what's promised or reported.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009/01/washington-lobbying-grew-to-32.html

btw... the govt for a very long time manipulated and ultimately controlled everything that's gone on in insurance and healthcare. We may as well take a candid look at where we are and where we're headed. Big govt hasn't proven itself very good at social engineering or running programs... what makes you so sure this is a good idea?

PkrBum wrote:I noticed that the chronology is a bit off in the 60's... but this shows the incremental involvement. There's much more detail.

http://www.pbs.org/healthcarecrisis/history.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_in_the_United_States

A better chronology: http://healthreform.kff.org/flash/health-reform-new.html