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The Last Letter

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knothead
Captn Kaoz
Sal
othershoe1030
gulfbeachbandit
Floridatexan
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1The Last Letter Empty The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 10:15 am

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

The Last Letter

A Message to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney From a Dying Veteran

To: George W. Bush and Dick Cheney
From: Tomas Young

"I write this letter on the 10th anniversary of the Iraq War on behalf of my fellow Iraq War veterans. I write this letter on behalf of the 4,488 soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq. I write this letter on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of veterans who have been wounded and on behalf of those whose wounds, physical and psychological, have destroyed their lives. I am one of those gravely wounded. I was paralyzed in an insurgent ambush in 2004 in Sadr City. My life is coming to an end. I am living under hospice care.

I write this letter on behalf of husbands and wives who have lost spouses, on behalf of children who have lost a parent, on behalf of the fathers and mothers who have lost sons and daughters and on behalf of those who care for the many thousands of my fellow veterans who have brain injuries. I write this letter on behalf of those veterans whose trauma and self-revulsion for what they have witnessed, endured and done in Iraq have led to suicide and on behalf of the active-duty soldiers and Marines who commit, on average, a suicide a day. I write this letter on behalf of the some 1 million Iraqi dead and on behalf of the countless Iraqi wounded. I write this letter on behalf of us all—the human detritus your war has left behind, those who will spend their lives in unending pain and grief.

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

Your positions of authority, your millions of dollars of personal wealth, your public relations consultants, your privilege and your power cannot mask the hollowness of your character. You sent us to fight and die in Iraq after you, Mr. Cheney, dodged the draft in Vietnam, and you, Mr. Bush, went AWOL from your National Guard unit. Your cowardice and selfishness were established decades ago. You were not willing to risk yourselves for our nation but you sent hundreds of thousands of young men and women to be sacrificed in a senseless war with no more thought than it takes to put out the garbage.

I joined the Army two days after the 9/11 attacks. I joined the Army because our country had been attacked. I wanted to strike back at those who had killed some 3,000 of my fellow citizens. I did not join the Army to go to Iraq, a country that had no part in the September 2001 attacks and did not pose a threat to its neighbors, much less to the United States. I did not join the Army to “liberate” Iraqis or to shut down mythical weapons-of-mass-destruction facilities or to implant what you cynically called “democracy” in Baghdad and the Middle East. I did not join the Army to rebuild Iraq, which at the time you told us could be paid for by Iraq’s oil revenues. Instead, this war has cost the United States over $3 trillion. I especially did not join the Army to carry out pre-emptive war. Pre-emptive war is illegal under international law. And as a soldier in Iraq I was, I now know, abetting your idiocy and your crimes. The Iraq War is the largest strategic blunder in U.S. history. It obliterated the balance of power in the Middle East. It installed a corrupt and brutal pro-Iranian government in Baghdad, one cemented in power through the use of torture, death squads and terror. And it has left Iran as the dominant force in the region. On every level—moral, strategic, military and economic—Iraq was a failure. And it was you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, who started this war. It is you who should pay the consequences.

I would not be writing this letter if I had been wounded fighting in Afghanistan against those forces that carried out the attacks of 9/11. Had I been wounded there I would still be miserable because of my physical deterioration and imminent death, but I would at least have the comfort of knowing that my injuries were a consequence of my own decision to defend the country I love. I would not have to lie in my bed, my body filled with painkillers, my life ebbing away, and deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of human beings, including children, including myself, were sacrificed by you for little more than the greed of oil companies, for your alliance with the oil sheiks in Saudi Arabia, and your insane visions of empire.

I have, like many other disabled veterans, suffered from the inadequate and often inept care provided by the Veterans Administration. I have, like many other disabled veterans, come to realize that our mental and physical wounds are of no interest to you, perhaps of no interest to any politician. We were used. We were betrayed. And we have been abandoned. You, Mr. Bush, make much pretense of being a Christian. But isn’t lying a sin? Isn’t murder a sin? Aren’t theft and selfish ambition sins? I am not a Christian. But I believe in the Christian ideal. I believe that what you do to the least of your brothers you finally do to yourself, to your own soul.

My day of reckoning is upon me. Yours will come. I hope you will be put on trial. But mostly I hope, for your sakes, that you find the moral courage to face what you have done to me and to many, many others who deserved to live. I hope that before your time on earth ends, as mine is now ending, you will find the strength of character to stand before the American public and the world, and in particular the Iraqi people, and beg for forgiveness."

2The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 10:33 am

Guest


Guest

Floridatexan wrote:The Last Letter

A Message to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney From a Dying Veteran

To: George W. Bush and Dick Cheney
From: Tomas Young

"I write this letter on the 10th anniversary of the Iraq War on behalf of my fellow Iraq War veterans. I write this letter on behalf of the 4,488 soldiers and Marines who died in Iraq. I write this letter on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of veterans who have been wounded and on behalf of those whose wounds, physical and psychological, have destroyed their lives. I am one of those gravely wounded. I was paralyzed in an insurgent ambush in 2004 in Sadr City. My life is coming to an end. I am living under hospice care.

I write this letter on behalf of husbands and wives who have lost spouses, on behalf of children who have lost a parent, on behalf of the fathers and mothers who have lost sons and daughters and on behalf of those who care for the many thousands of my fellow veterans who have brain injuries. I write this letter on behalf of those veterans whose trauma and self-revulsion for what they have witnessed, endured and done in Iraq have led to suicide and on behalf of the active-duty soldiers and Marines who commit, on average, a suicide a day. I write this letter on behalf of the some 1 million Iraqi dead and on behalf of the countless Iraqi wounded. I write this letter on behalf of us all—the human detritus your war has left behind, those who will spend their lives in unending pain and grief.

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

Your positions of authority, your millions of dollars of personal wealth, your public relations consultants, your privilege and your power cannot mask the hollowness of your character. You sent us to fight and die in Iraq after you, Mr. Cheney, dodged the draft in Vietnam, and you, Mr. Bush, went AWOL from your National Guard unit. Your cowardice and selfishness were established decades ago. You were not willing to risk yourselves for our nation but you sent hundreds of thousands of young men and women to be sacrificed in a senseless war with no more thought than it takes to put out the garbage.

I joined the Army two days after the 9/11 attacks. I joined the Army because our country had been attacked. I wanted to strike back at those who had killed some 3,000 of my fellow citizens. I did not join the Army to go to Iraq, a country that had no part in the September 2001 attacks and did not pose a threat to its neighbors, much less to the United States. I did not join the Army to “liberate” Iraqis or to shut down mythical weapons-of-mass-destruction facilities or to implant what you cynically called “democracy” in Baghdad and the Middle East. I did not join the Army to rebuild Iraq, which at the time you told us could be paid for by Iraq’s oil revenues. Instead, this war has cost the United States over $3 trillion. I especially did not join the Army to carry out pre-emptive war. Pre-emptive war is illegal under international law. And as a soldier in Iraq I was, I now know, abetting your idiocy and your crimes. The Iraq War is the largest strategic blunder in U.S. history. It obliterated the balance of power in the Middle East. It installed a corrupt and brutal pro-Iranian government in Baghdad, one cemented in power through the use of torture, death squads and terror. And it has left Iran as the dominant force in the region. On every level—moral, strategic, military and economic—Iraq was a failure. And it was you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, who started this war. It is you who should pay the consequences.

I would not be writing this letter if I had been wounded fighting in Afghanistan against those forces that carried out the attacks of 9/11. Had I been wounded there I would still be miserable because of my physical deterioration and imminent death, but I would at least have the comfort of knowing that my injuries were a consequence of my own decision to defend the country I love. I would not have to lie in my bed, my body filled with painkillers, my life ebbing away, and deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of human beings, including children, including myself, were sacrificed by you for little more than the greed of oil companies, for your alliance with the oil sheiks in Saudi Arabia, and your insane visions of empire.

I have, like many other disabled veterans, suffered from the inadequate and often inept care provided by the Veterans Administration. I have, like many other disabled veterans, come to realize that our mental and physical wounds are of no interest to you, perhaps of no interest to any politician. We were used. We were betrayed. And we have been abandoned. You, Mr. Bush, make much pretense of being a Christian. But isn’t lying a sin? Isn’t murder a sin? Aren’t theft and selfish ambition sins? I am not a Christian. But I believe in the Christian ideal. I believe that what you do to the least of your brothers you finally do to yourself, to your own soul.

My day of reckoning is upon me. Yours will come. I hope you will be put on trial. But mostly I hope, for your sakes, that you find the moral courage to face what you have done to me and to many, many others who deserved to live. I hope that before your time on earth ends, as mine is now ending, you will find the strength of character to stand before the American public and the world, and in particular the Iraqi people, and beg for forgiveness."


cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers

3The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 10:37 am

gulfbeachbandit

gulfbeachbandit

Did he write the same letter to the senate and congress who voted to go to war?
Including obama, who was in favor of this war when he voted for it.

4The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 10:38 am

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

When Do We Start the War Crimes Trial?


5The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 10:43 am

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

gulfbeachbandit wrote:Did he write the same letter to the senate and congress who voted to go to war?
Including obama, who was in favor of this war when he voted for it.
------------------

A careful reading of the Authorization for the Use of Force adopted by large bipartisan majorities in both the House and Senate shows the congressional authorization was hardly the "blank check" the news media portrayed it as. Congress limited the President's use of military force against Iraq by authorizing war only to:

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq, and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq."
The use of the word "and" after the first paragraph is critical. While Congress did not require an imminent or immediate threat, it was not prepared to authorize the President to go to war over a violation of a Security Council Resolution involving WMDs unless there was also some likelihood that if left unchecked, Saddam would present a "continuing threat" of using those weapons against the United States in the foreseeable future
.

6The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 11:08 am

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

The nation has truly lost its way when it comes to war and veterans. That letter should be posted outside of all recruiting offices, offices that are now euphemistically called 'career centers".

Both parties have let the vets down. The wait for a response from the VA to get help has never been longer. The nearly 3 trillion $$$ cost of the war was called an emergency so it didn't show up on the regular federal budget. What a nice trick that was? Now that the R's have their hair on fire over the debt they could see out of the corner of their eye but didn't want to acknowledge they don't want to adequately fund/expand the VA to a functional level. This I believe is not a pro-life stance, nor is it a pro-family position.

7The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 11:42 am

Sal

Sal

gulfbeachbandit wrote:
Including obama, who was in favor of this war when he voted for it.

Obama was a state senator in Illinois when the Iraq war began, and this is what he said about it at the time;

Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don't oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain. I don't oppose all wars.

After Sept. 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again. I don't oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism.

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income — to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear — I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaida. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.


So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with bin Laden and al-Qaida, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings. You want a fight, President Bush?

Let's fight to make sure that the U.N. inspectors can do their work, and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe. You want a fight, President Bush?

Let's fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair. The consequences of war are dire, the sacrifices immeasurable. We may have occasion in our lifetime to once again rise up in defense of our freedom, and pay the wages of war. But we ought not — we will not — travel down that hellish path blindly. Nor should we allow those who would march off and pay the ultimate sacrifice, who would prove the full measure of devotion with their blood, to make such an awful sacrifice in vain.

So, stuff it.

8The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 11:48 am

Captn Kaoz

Captn Kaoz

It is an all volunteer force. Nobody forced him to join. When he joined, he took the following oath of enlistment:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

9The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 1:14 pm

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Captn Kaoz wrote:It is an all volunteer force. Nobody forced him to join. When he joined, he took the following oath of enlistment:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Does he deserve to die because he was misled by evil people advancing their own agendas under the guise of patriotism? Even you know your argument is lame.

10The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 1:22 pm

Captn Kaoz

Captn Kaoz

Floridatexan wrote:
Captn Kaoz wrote:It is an all volunteer force. Nobody forced him to join. When he joined, he took the following oath of enlistment:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Does he deserve to die because he was misled by evil people advancing their own agendas under the guise of patriotism? Even you know your argument is lame.

Where in my post does it say "he deserved to die"? I said he volunteered and knew the risks. By the way. I have re-read the letter. Just what is he dying from? And how do we know it was caused by his service?

11The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 1:31 pm

Captn Kaoz

Captn Kaoz

This is from the story:

Young—who suffered an anoxic brain injury in 2008—said he had been contemplating "conventional" suicide, but decided to go on hospice care, "stop feeding and fade away."


This guy honorably served his country. He was wounded in battle. He is probably suffering from PTSD but he is causing his own death.

12The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 2:24 pm

Sal

Sal

Captn Kaoz wrote:This is from the story:

Young—who suffered an anoxic brain injury in 2008—said he had been contemplating "conventional" suicide, but decided to go on hospice care, "stop feeding and fade away."


This guy honorably served his country. He was wounded in battle. He is probably suffering from PTSD but he is causing his own death.

The man's spine was severed by a sniper's bullet in Iraq.

He's paralyzed from the chest down, suffers from spasms and seizures, is in constant pain, and recently had his colon removed so he can no longer even eat solid food.

So, what exactly is your point, asshole?

13The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 2:30 pm

Captn Kaoz

Captn Kaoz

Sal wrote:
Captn Kaoz wrote:This is from the story:

Young—who suffered an anoxic brain injury in 2008—said he had been contemplating "conventional" suicide, but decided to go on hospice care, "stop feeding and fade away."

This guy honorably served his country. He was wounded in battle. He is probably suffering from PTSD but he is causing his own death.

The man's spine was severed by a sniper's bullet in Iraq.

He's paralyzed from the chest down, suffers from spasms and seizures, is in constant pain, and recently had his colon removed so he can no longer even eat solid food.


So, what exactly is your point, asshole?


Sal is that all you can do is call people names. Is it that hard for you to be civil? What I'm saying is he is committing suicide. There are thousands of combat wounded vets who are living everyday with pain and challenges that I hope I never have to go through. However, they have not given up. They are an inspiration to the human condition. Unlike You.

14The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 2:58 pm

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Captn Kaoz wrote:
Sal wrote:
Captn Kaoz wrote:This is from the story:

Young—who suffered an anoxic brain injury in 2008—said he had been contemplating "conventional" suicide, but decided to go on hospice care, "stop feeding and fade away."

This guy honorably served his country. He was wounded in battle. He is probably suffering from PTSD but he is causing his own death.

The man's spine was severed by a sniper's bullet in Iraq.

He's paralyzed from the chest down, suffers from spasms and seizures, is in constant pain, and recently had his colon removed so he can no longer even eat solid food.


So, what exactly is your point, asshole?


Sal is that all you can do is call people names. Is it that hard for you to be civil? What I'm saying is he is committing suicide. There are thousands of combat wounded vets who are living everyday with pain and challenges that I hope I never have to go through. However, they have not given up. They are an inspiration to the human condition. Unlike You.

Idiot. For some of these people, there is NO HOPE. What exactly are you defending, anyway? Should he have just kept his feelings to himself? Committed suicide? What? He's surely not the only soldier to feel betrayed after having sworn that oath. Try living without a colon, for God's sake.

15The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 3:19 pm

Captn Kaoz

Captn Kaoz

Attacked again. Is that all you can do is call people names who disagree with you? I'll repeat my position again. This time I'll type it slow because I know you don't read so fast.

First, you are politicizing the plight of a wounded warrior for one more shot at George Bush. Your argument is old and worn. Second, when he volunteered he did so with the understanding that he may not come home one day or he may not come home in one piece. I salute his service and the service of all of our warriors, wounded or dead.

Why don't you post a story about a wounded warrior who has overcome the odds? There are plenty of them out there. It's because you have PTBD - Post Tramatic Bush Disorder.


By the way where is the link that talks about the seizures and colon removal? I have searched and the only news agency I can find covering this is Yahoo.

16The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 3:34 pm

knothead

knothead

First, you are politicizing the plight of a wounded warrior for one more shot at George Bush.

Captain, you bristle obviously at the scorn directed at Bush but history will prove the Iraqi war waged by the Bush/Cheney team will have consequences of untold proportions for decades . . . . . . it was one of the worst if not the worst decision ever made by an administration in our nation's history and you are dismissive of these facts by saying they are tired and worn complaints by the Democrats or lefties in your world.

I agree that soldiers who volunteer and get killed or wounded knew that up front. Our nation and our leaders have the heavy burden of making decisions sending our warriors into battle without first having no doubt about the intelligence to support the claims. I, like you, honor and support our military but we seem to desert them when they come home . . . . . we average one suicide per day.

This is absolutely positively Bush's fault and I say that without reservation and I take no joy in doing so but the buck stops with him on Iraq and always will.

17The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 3:39 pm

Guest


Guest

Lots have come home who had gotten injured cussing bush( they are brainwashed too). for one plenty in the left voted to go to war, including your clintons. So dont think that wont be brought up in 2016 either.

I, with Capt thank the man for his service however unfortunatly people go in the military and they do not grasp what they are signing up for. The left has made the military out to be some sort of freebie social program with a possible death in war tied to it.

Never the less. Bush isnt the prez anymore and he is not going to be tried for war crimes. And if he ever was, so many of your lefties are going down with him. Clintons and pelosi for a couple, so go ahead. rake all thier asses out as far as I care.

oh and one other thing. over 4 years later we still have soldiers in iraq. Dont even try to question it. Not only that, how many other places in the world have we sent soldiers to fight and DIE since the peace maker took office?

18The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 3:49 pm

Sal

Sal

Chrissy wrote:Lots have come home who had gotten injured cussing bush( they are brainwashed too). for one plenty in the left voted to go to war, including your clintons. So dont think that wont be brought up in 2016 either.

I, with Capt thank the man for his service however unfortunatly people go in the military and they do not grasp what they are signing up for. The left has made the military out to be some sort of freebie social program with a possible death in war tied to it.

Never the less. Bush isnt the prez anymore and he is not going to be tried for war crimes. And if he ever was, so many of your lefties are going down with him. Clintons and pelosi for a couple, so go ahead. rake all thier asses out as far as I care.

oh and one other thing. over 4 years later we still have soldiers in iraq. Dont even try to question it. Not only that, how many other places in the world have we sent soldiers to fight and DIE since the peace maker took office?

There were many Dems responsible for authorizing the POTUS to use military power. They deserve all the criticism they receive for having done so.

Only Dubya and his administration are responsible for using a casus belli of lies to justify an unnecessary invasion of a sovereign nation, pouring trillions of dollars down a rathole, killing hundreds of thousands of people, re-introducing the tactical use of chemical weapons and torture by US personnel on the battlefield, refusing to raise taxes to pay for a war thus exploding the federal deficit, exposing a covert CIA operative because her husband said the stated reason for the war was bullshit, strengthening Iran while destabilizing the entire Middle East, and raising the stock value of Halliburton the Veep's former company? For that, they deserve prison time if not much worse.



Last edited by Sal on 3/20/2013, 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

19The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 3:54 pm

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Captn Kaoz wrote:Attacked again. Is that all you can do is call people names who disagree with you? I'll repeat my position again. This time I'll type it slow because I know you don't read so fast.

First, you are politicizing the plight of a wounded warrior for one more shot at George Bush. Your argument is old and worn. Second, when he volunteered he did so with the understanding that he may not come home one day or he may not come home in one piece. I salute his service and the service of all of our warriors, wounded or dead.

Why don't you post a story about a wounded warrior who has overcome the odds? There are plenty of them out there. It's because you have PTBD - Post Tramatic Bush Disorder.


By the way where is the link that talks about the seizures and colon removal? I have searched and the only news agency I can find covering this is Yahoo.

Great job of not attacking me...I'm not politicizing this man's story...HE IS. He's laying blame where it belongs, while he still has time to do so. Tell your story to the wives, children, and parents of our war wounded and dead. JERK.

20The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 4:01 pm

Captn Kaoz

Captn Kaoz

[quote="knothead"]First, you are politicizing the plight of a wounded warrior for one more shot at George Bush.

Captain, you bristle obviously at the scorn directed at Bush but history will prove the Iraqi war waged by the Bush/Cheney team will have consequences of untold proportions for decades . . . . . . it was one of the worst if not the worst decision ever made by an administration in our nation's history and you are dismissive of these facts by saying they are tired and worn complaints by the Democrats or lefties in your world.

Mr Knothead, I felt the war in Iraq was a mistake. It may turn out to be a huge blunder, only time will tell. In the short term, it emboldened Iran and possibly Al-Qaeda. As evil as Saddam was, he kept Iran in-check. If we would have gone into Afghanistan right away with the full force like we did Iraq, we may have have gotten Osama and the Taliban right away and things may have turned out differently in Afghanistan.

21The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 5:43 pm

Yella

Yella

Sal wrote:
gulfbeachbandit wrote:
Including obama, who was in favor of this war when he voted for it.

Obama was a state senator in Illinois when the Iraq war began, and this is what he said about it at the time;

Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don't oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain. I don't oppose all wars.

After Sept. 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again. I don't oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism.

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income — to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear — I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaida. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.


So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with bin Laden and al-Qaida, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings. You want a fight, President Bush?

Let's fight to make sure that the U.N. inspectors can do their work, and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe. You want a fight, President Bush?

Let's fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair. The consequences of war are dire, the sacrifices immeasurable. We may have occasion in our lifetime to once again rise up in defense of our freedom, and pay the wages of war. But we ought not — we will not — travel down that hellish path blindly. Nor should we allow those who would march off and pay the ultimate sacrifice, who would prove the full measure of devotion with their blood, to make such an awful sacrifice in vain.

So, stuff it.

Very good, Sal, this should quiet the outbursts from gulfbeachbandit for a while as he sits and licks his wounds from the clever mindthrashing you just handed him.

I just posted this commentary on the General section but it will also do well here.

Bush and Cheney will go unpunished, living in the lap of luxury and uncaring about anyone who was killed or maimed in their war for the Big Business CEOs to whom they both are thralled, unpunished, that is until they are settled in their front row seats that are reserved for them in Hell.

http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

22The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 5:49 pm

Margin Call

Margin Call

gulfbeachbandit wrote:Did he write the same letter to the senate and congress who voted to go to war?
Including obama, who was in favor of this war when he voted for it.

Obama also caused the recession when he became President.* No


23The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 5:51 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

Sal wrote:Obama was a state senator in Illinois when the Iraq war began, and this is what he said about it at the time;

So, stuff it.

Oddly enough, I have pointed this very same fact out to him as well. I guess it didn't sink in.


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24The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 6:23 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Perhaps Markle will come along and post one of his overused cut-and-pastes pointing out why the war in Iraq was a just war....

I am sure he has at least one in his portfolio that exonerates Bush and Cheney completely, blames mostly Democrats for the war, and goes after both Obama and Clinton as well.

...I bet we saw it posted over 1,000 times on the PNJ forum, previously, also...

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

25The Last Letter Empty Re: The Last Letter 3/20/2013, 6:40 pm

Margin Call

Margin Call

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:Perhaps Markle will come along and post one of his overused cut-and-pastes pointing out why the war in Iraq was a just war....

I am sure he has at least one in his portfolio that exonerates Bush and Cheney completely, blames mostly Democrats for the war, and goes after both Obama and Clinton as well.

...I bet we saw it posted over 1,000 times on the PNJ forum, previously, also...

He reminds me of Ray Finkle writing "laces out" everywhere.

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