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1 Repent, Dick Cheney 3/7/2013, 6:09 pm
Floridatexan
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/06/opinion/dowd-repent-dick-cheney.html?_r=0
2 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/7/2013, 7:24 pm
ZVUGKTUBM
That is a very good article on America's most vile and evil VEEP in its history.
3 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/7/2013, 8:12 pm
Guest
Guest
Hey, he hasn't been in office for over 4 years now......keep that self-flaggellation going though if it makes your day.
4 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/7/2013, 8:19 pm
knothead
PACEDOG#1 wrote:Hey, he hasn't been in office for over 4 years now......keep that self-flaggellation going though if it makes your day.
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He was and is a self serving pseudo intellectual and one of the most pathetic VPs in our history.
5 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/7/2013, 8:46 pm
Guest
Guest
Don't hate because he knew how to use the power of his office efficiently. Just because Joe "The Plagiarizer" Biden wants to be Obama's footstool, well that is because he is a wishy-washy wimp.
6 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/7/2013, 8:54 pm
knothead
PACEDOG#1 wrote:Don't hate because he knew how to use the power of his office efficiently. Just because Joe "The Plagiarizer" Biden wants to be Obama's footstool, well that is because he is a wishy-washy wimp.
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That's funny . . . . I do not hate Cheney but history will show that he was Boy George's brain and led him into an endless conflict that was unwarranted and unnecessary. I'm not a fan of Biden but if it makes you feel good to make the assertion then go for it . . . . . .
7 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/7/2013, 10:12 pm
ZVUGKTUBM
knothead wrote:PACEDOG#1 wrote:Don't hate because he knew how to use the power of his office efficiently. Just because Joe "The Plagiarizer" Biden wants to be Obama's footstool, well that is because he is a wishy-washy wimp.
***************************************************
That's funny . . . . I do not hate Cheney but history will show that he was Boy George's brain and led him into an endless conflict that was unwarranted and unnecessary. I'm not a fan of Biden but if it makes you feel good to make the assertion then go for it . . . . . .
History is not going to be friendly to either of them.
8 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/7/2013, 11:19 pm
Floridatexan
There may not be a more evil man in our country's history. If there were any justice in the universe, Cheney would be buried, assassinated, or, best of all, prosecuted for his war crimes, just like his lackey Bush.
9 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 12:22 am
Sal
Floridatexan wrote:
There may not be a more evil man in our country's history. If there were any justice in the universe, Cheney would be buried, assassinated, or, best of all, prosecuted for his war crimes, just like his lackey Bush.
He will never die.
His mechanical heart is fueled by children's tears and kitten's blood.
10 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 1:02 am
2seaoat
History is not going to be friendly to either of them.
I do not know.....that call may be a bit premature. It is very difficult to ever justify the lives lost in Iraq, but Arab Spring and modernity were never going to be bloodless. The evolution of freedom and democracy in this region locked with one foot in the middle ages and one in the 21st century may in fifty years look back and not be so harsh on either VP......I think there are legitimate criticism of both, but I think the certainty of people talking about the lack of threat, and contrived war as part of some master conspiracy overlook real concerns during this period. Fear is often irrational, and to play Monday Quarterback is easy.....history will take a longer view.
I do not know.....that call may be a bit premature. It is very difficult to ever justify the lives lost in Iraq, but Arab Spring and modernity were never going to be bloodless. The evolution of freedom and democracy in this region locked with one foot in the middle ages and one in the 21st century may in fifty years look back and not be so harsh on either VP......I think there are legitimate criticism of both, but I think the certainty of people talking about the lack of threat, and contrived war as part of some master conspiracy overlook real concerns during this period. Fear is often irrational, and to play Monday Quarterback is easy.....history will take a longer view.
11 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 1:05 am
Hospital Bob
Cheney and Biden are both just a couple of dipshits. It's a pathetic country which can't produce anything better for it's leaders. H.L. Mencken got it right. We all (left, right and middle) should be ashamed.
12 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 1:25 am
Hospital Bob
2seaoat wrote:
I do not know.....that call may be a bit premature. It is very difficult to ever justify the lives lost in Iraq, but Arab Spring and modernity were never going to be bloodless. The evolution of freedom and democracy in this region locked with one foot in the middle ages and one in the 21st century may in fifty years look back and not be so harsh on either VP......I think there are legitimate criticism of both, but I think the certainty of people talking about the lack of threat, and contrived war as part of some master conspiracy overlook real concerns during this period. Fear is often irrational, and to play Monday Quarterback is easy.....history will take a longer view.
Neither of those two are smart enough to pull off a conspiracy.
But it doesn't take quarterbacks or history to see that neither has accomplished anything worthwhile with the authority they were given. Each's gravestone should read "career politician" because that's all they deserve.
13 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 1:29 am
2seaoat
Bob,
I have to disagree. I do not think the country has been served by two better Vice Presidents in the last 50 years. They both had extensive legislative experience, and were both very knowledgeable on foreign affairs. They both had special interest connections, but the reality of our legislatures result in those connections in the absence of campaign reform.
I will take intelligent men in office over dullards regardless of which party they represent. This country has become a SNL skit where we disrespect our elected officials without ever grasping how difficult their jobs really are. Either man could whip up anyone on this forum with one intellectual hand tied behind their back, and have more courage than any of us......so this ease that we create bad guys, and ignore a bad system.......amazes me.
I have to disagree. I do not think the country has been served by two better Vice Presidents in the last 50 years. They both had extensive legislative experience, and were both very knowledgeable on foreign affairs. They both had special interest connections, but the reality of our legislatures result in those connections in the absence of campaign reform.
I will take intelligent men in office over dullards regardless of which party they represent. This country has become a SNL skit where we disrespect our elected officials without ever grasping how difficult their jobs really are. Either man could whip up anyone on this forum with one intellectual hand tied behind their back, and have more courage than any of us......so this ease that we create bad guys, and ignore a bad system.......amazes me.
14 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 1:43 am
Hospital Bob
"Either man could whip up anyone on this forum with one intellectual hand tied behind their back, and have more courage than any of us"
Are you talking about the "courage" it takes to get five draft deferments because you had "other priorities" and then send thousands to their deaths in the most wrong-headed excuse for a war in the country's history? I don't know that "courage" is the word I'd use for that? A pair of big brass balls maybe. But not courage.
And how much intelligence does it take to say all the goofy stuff Biden has said? If goofiness is a measure of intelligence he should be in the mensa society.
"......so this ease that we create bad guys, and ignore a bad system.......amazes me."
All either has done is preside over the worst decline in the country's history. And I can think of nothing either has done to distinguish himself during that decline. Cheney accelerated the decline. And Biden has done nothing but suck off the government teat for an entire career. History won't even remember him, seaoat.
Are you talking about the "courage" it takes to get five draft deferments because you had "other priorities" and then send thousands to their deaths in the most wrong-headed excuse for a war in the country's history? I don't know that "courage" is the word I'd use for that? A pair of big brass balls maybe. But not courage.
And how much intelligence does it take to say all the goofy stuff Biden has said? If goofiness is a measure of intelligence he should be in the mensa society.
"......so this ease that we create bad guys, and ignore a bad system.......amazes me."
All either has done is preside over the worst decline in the country's history. And I can think of nothing either has done to distinguish himself during that decline. Cheney accelerated the decline. And Biden has done nothing but suck off the government teat for an entire career. History won't even remember him, seaoat.
15 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 1:53 am
2seaoat
Is a Vice President evil because a President is weak? Is a Vice President responsible for getting the votes to go to Iraq? Is a Vice President who has been dead cinch correct on Afghanastan for 10 years going to get credit for his persistent and correct policy guidance to President Obama....when he has been ignored? No, the job is in evolution. From John Adams basically thinking it was being relegated to hell, to its current status of actively guiding our policies.....your very admission of culpability for wars tells me that you have admitted that the office has evolved and these two men have been largely responsible for this transition........I cannot stress how important both men have been to this country. The fact that either vice president was a chickenhawk is of little concern, because to date I have not found the buck stopping on either's desk that gave them the ultimate decision of war or peace. I find them to be both part of the best and brightest this country has offered in that office.
16 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 2:08 am
Hospital Bob
2seaoat wrote:Is a Vice President evil because a President is weak? Is a Vice President responsible for getting the votes to go to Iraq? Is a Vice President who has been dead cinch correct on Afghanastan for 10 years going to get credit for his persistent and correct policy guidance to President Obama....when he has been ignored? No, the job is in evolution. From John Adams basically thinking it was being relegated to hell, to its current status of actively guiding our policies.....your very admission of culpability for wars tells me that you have admitted that the office has evolved and these two men have been largely responsible for this transition........I cannot stress how important both men have been to this country. The fact that either vice president was a chickenhawk is of little concern, because to date I have not found the buck stopping on either's desk that gave them the ultimate decision of war or peace. I find them to be both part of the best and brightest this country has offered in that office.
Bush had a foreign policy vacuum between his ears when he entered office. Cheney filled that vacuum. And filled it with neocon stupidity.
Obama had even less experiencing with governing in general. He obviously chose the hack he'd buddied up with during his laughably short career in congress to fill that vacuum he had between his ears too. And it should be very very obvious to anyone how effective Biden has been as a congressional liason for Obama. We now have the most dysfunctional relationship between the white house and congress in the country's history. To not see that requires some really thick blinders.
17 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 2:17 am
Hospital Bob
My god, seaoat, with Biden's help the white house cannot even get a Senate controlled by their own party to pass a budget for the last five years. That is an unprecedented and monumental failure of leadership.
Last edited by Bob on 3/8/2013, 2:18 am; edited 1 time in total
18 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 2:17 am
2seaoat
To not see that requires some really thick blinders.
Perhaps. It would require me to buy into the proposition that personalities can exact greater influence and power than systems. Personalities come and go, but systemic change which gives better tools to those personalities is the threshold question. So what you think are blinders, is simply the recognition that Senator Biden was owned by the credit card companies as he was a strong supporter of the bankruptcy reform act, and Count dracula had deep oil and military industrial complex ties which influence his paradigm as it related to world politics.
You think that replacing these two personalities would change the system. You fail to recognize the inherent limits for change which can be effectuated by people who have finally been put on the front line of an increasingly dysfunctional system. No, the men have been extremely competent, and worthy of the office. Their faults are not so much in their tenancy in the Vice Presidency, rather it is the undue influence which bought and paid for them in a broken campaign finance law which allows congress to be bought and paid for.......so if you want to have an intelligent conversation on real reforms.....or if you want to create a SNL skit on these two able Vice presidents.....it all works for me, but in the end, history may not judge them as SNL skits.
Perhaps. It would require me to buy into the proposition that personalities can exact greater influence and power than systems. Personalities come and go, but systemic change which gives better tools to those personalities is the threshold question. So what you think are blinders, is simply the recognition that Senator Biden was owned by the credit card companies as he was a strong supporter of the bankruptcy reform act, and Count dracula had deep oil and military industrial complex ties which influence his paradigm as it related to world politics.
You think that replacing these two personalities would change the system. You fail to recognize the inherent limits for change which can be effectuated by people who have finally been put on the front line of an increasingly dysfunctional system. No, the men have been extremely competent, and worthy of the office. Their faults are not so much in their tenancy in the Vice Presidency, rather it is the undue influence which bought and paid for them in a broken campaign finance law which allows congress to be bought and paid for.......so if you want to have an intelligent conversation on real reforms.....or if you want to create a SNL skit on these two able Vice presidents.....it all works for me, but in the end, history may not judge them as SNL skits.
19 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 2:23 am
Hospital Bob
2seaoat wrote:To not see that requires some really thick blinders.
Perhaps. It would require me to buy into the proposition that personalities can exact greater influence and power than systems. Personalities come and go, but systemic change which gives better tools to those personalities is the threshold question. So what you think are blinders, is simply the recognition that Senator Biden was owned by the credit card companies as he was a strong supporter of the bankruptcy reform act, and Count dracula had deep oil and military industrial complex ties which influence his paradigm as it related to world politics.
You think that replacing these two personalities would change the system. You fail to recognize the inherent limits for change which can be effectuated by people who have finally been put on the front line of an increasingly dysfunctional system. No, the men have been extremely competent, and worthy of the office. Their faults are not so much in their tenancy in the Vice Presidency, rather it is the undue influence which bought and paid for them in a broken campaign finance law which allows congress to be bought and paid for.......so if you want to have an intelligent conversation on real reforms.....or if you want to create a SNL skit on these two able Vice presidents.....it all works for me, but in the end, history may not judge them as SNL skits.
Before you continue with this argument, seaoat, you might want to remember that it's you yourself who has so emphasized the role Abraham Lincoln played in overcoming and turning around a similar period of national decline. lol
20 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 2:32 am
2seaoat
Before you continue with this argument, seaoat, you might want to remember that it's you yourself who has so emphasized the role Abraham Lincoln played in overcoming and turning around a similar period of national decline. lol
A very good point Bob.....but he was President, and most importantly as he addressed systematic change of a broken system, he relied on his entire cabinet for input......and particularly was known for putting people on his cabinet who would be truthful and not afraid to voice their criticisms of the president. Now if you want to critique both President Bush, and President Obama did you see a similar attempt to get a real debate as to policy.....no they both sought to circle the wagons and work at keeping dissent out of the oval Office. Lincoln had his hand forced because before he had really settled into Washington DC he had a insurrection of terrorist attacking our country. The system broke before he even had an opportunity to exercise his political leadership to reform the system. So if you want to transfer powers to the Vice President which has never existed. If you want to have personalities be guided by our creator......then watch in horror as our system finally breaks.......I personally do not even see us getting close to that point. I think most of the whining and hysteria is media created, and very profitable. It is hired guns providing smoke screens for real systemic reform......nope Lincoln was our greatest President, not by choice, but because our system was broken......we are close to a break again, but not as to breadth or magnitude, so our leader will not be judged by the same standards as Lincoln.
A very good point Bob.....but he was President, and most importantly as he addressed systematic change of a broken system, he relied on his entire cabinet for input......and particularly was known for putting people on his cabinet who would be truthful and not afraid to voice their criticisms of the president. Now if you want to critique both President Bush, and President Obama did you see a similar attempt to get a real debate as to policy.....no they both sought to circle the wagons and work at keeping dissent out of the oval Office. Lincoln had his hand forced because before he had really settled into Washington DC he had a insurrection of terrorist attacking our country. The system broke before he even had an opportunity to exercise his political leadership to reform the system. So if you want to transfer powers to the Vice President which has never existed. If you want to have personalities be guided by our creator......then watch in horror as our system finally breaks.......I personally do not even see us getting close to that point. I think most of the whining and hysteria is media created, and very profitable. It is hired guns providing smoke screens for real systemic reform......nope Lincoln was our greatest President, not by choice, but because our system was broken......we are close to a break again, but not as to breadth or magnitude, so our leader will not be judged by the same standards as Lincoln.
21 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 2:50 am
Guest
Guest
knothead wrote:PACEDOG#1 wrote:Don't hate because he knew how to use the power of his office efficiently. Just because Joe "The Plagiarizer" Biden wants to be Obama's footstool, well that is because he is a wishy-washy wimp.
***************************************************
That's funny . . . . I do not hate Cheney but history will show that he was Boy George's brain and led him into an endless conflict that was unwarranted and unnecessary. I'm not a fan of Biden but if it makes you feel good to make the assertion then go for it . . . . . .
Endless? Didn't your messiah end the Iraq war? That's what the left has been telling us for two years now. That's what he campaigned on as well. So, you're wrong. It wasn't endless and the END was planned even before Obama started running for the office.
22 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 2:55 am
Guest
Guest
Bob wrote:
Bush had a foreign policy vacuum between his ears when he entered office. Cheney filled that vacuum. And filled it with neocon stupidity.
Obama had even less experiencing with governing in general. He obviously chose the hack he'd buddied up with during his laughably short career in congress to fill that vacuum he had between his ears too. And it should be very very obvious to anyone how effective Biden has been as a congressional liason for Obama. We now have the most dysfunctional relationship between the white house and congress in the country's history. To not see that requires some really thick blinders.
That would mean Obama has the same vacuum between his noggin as well because not only has he continued most every program related to the GWOT that Bush started, he's intensified the drone campaign exponentially to include killing US citizens (as you all have said) without due process.
23 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/8/2013, 2:57 am
Guest
Guest
Floridatexan wrote:
There may not be a more evil man in our country's history. If there were any justice in the universe, Cheney would be buried, assassinated, or, best of all, prosecuted for his war crimes, just like his lackey Bush.
Hopefully you first. Your hero loves to kill US citizens without due process of law.
24 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/9/2013, 11:58 am
Floridatexan
PACEDOG#1 wrote:Floridatexan wrote:
There may not be a more evil man in our country's history. If there were any justice in the universe, Cheney would be buried, assassinated, or, best of all, prosecuted for his war crimes, just like his lackey Bush.
Hopefully you first. Your hero loves to kill US citizens without due process of law.
You're a really sick puppy, aren't you? You wouldn't know Jesus if He multiplied the loaves and fishes before your eyes.
25 Re: Repent, Dick Cheney 3/9/2013, 12:14 pm
Guest
Guest
PACEDOG#1 wrote:Floridatexan wrote:
There may not be a more evil man in our country's history. If there were any justice in the universe, Cheney would be buried, assassinated, or, best of all, prosecuted for his war crimes, just like his lackey Bush.
Hopefully you first. Your hero loves to kill US citizens without due process of law.
...................................
And you wonder why you have a target on your back...?
You said:
Change your tactics WTM and nobody will have a clue....
That cuts both ways. If you would stop your incessant lying, obfuscation, dissembling, and outrageous distortions of the truth, it would be a lot easier on the folk who actually care about the truth.
Get a clue.
Now run along and start at least 5 more threads whining about the need to ban me so that your (sic) freedom to puke unsavory over the top lies into this forum, will not be infringed.
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