Is Grover Finally Over?

A topic that begs to be discussed with the looming fiscal crisis facing the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/27/opinion/bruni-is-grover-norquists-hold-on-congress-finally-over.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

An excerpt:

"Someday someone will write a dark history — a farce, really — of how he managed to bring nearly all of the Republican Party to heel, compelling legislator upon legislator to lash themselves to his no-new-taxes pledge. Until then we’ll have to content ourselves with his misfortune over the last few days. No sooner had a nation digested its turkey than his goose began to be cooked. The spreading rebellion in the Republican ranks was manifest on the post-Thanksgiving Sunday talk shows."

It is long past time for the uber-partisans (on both sides) to go away. Anyone who thinks the country can continue down the current road without some tax increases and overhaul of the tax code doesn't have a clue. Now if the politicians would just use fiscal restraint......

nochain wrote:It is long past time for the uber-partisans (on both sides) to go away. Anyone who thinks the country can continue down the current road without some tax increases and overhaul of the tax code doesn't have a clue. Now if the politicians would just use fiscal restraint......

And there's the problem....during elections 'fiscal restraint' is popular and spoken about on a regular basis...after the elections the same politicians that rail against government spending make sure that they get their cut...there is or never has been any accountability...

I say vote everyone out who even took that guy's pledge. How stupid must one be to sign a pledge that states that, no matter what, you're going to favor a particular policy. No matter what new information comes to light or no matter what scenario you may find yourself in, by golly, you're still going to cling to this policy.

Essentially, just cover your ears, shut your eyes, basically block out reality, and then repeatedly shout, "I will not raise taxes! I will not raise taxes!"

boards of FL wrote:I say vote everyone out who even took that guy's pledge. How stupid must one be to sign a pledge that states that, no matter what, you're going to favor a particular policy. No matter what new information comes to light or no matter what scenario you may find yourself in, by golly, you're still going to cling to this policy.

Essentially, just cover your ears, shut your eyes, basically block out reality, and then repeatedly shout, "I will not raise taxes! I will not raise taxes!"

While we are it, vote everyone else out who has held office the past few years. They were also willing participants in the political travesty that is occurring.

nochain wrote:

boards of FL wrote:I say vote everyone out who even took that guy's pledge. How stupid must one be to sign a pledge that states that, no matter what, you're going to favor a particular policy. No matter what new information comes to light or no matter what scenario you may find yourself in, by golly, you're still going to cling to this policy.

Essentially, just cover your ears, shut your eyes, basically block out reality, and then repeatedly shout, "I will not raise taxes! I will not raise taxes!"

While we are it, vote everyone else out who has held office the past few years. They were also willing participants in the political travesty that is occurring.

Vote everyone out that is unbending about making overdue cuts too?...In 2008 the cohw said it would be disasterous to raise taxes in a recession and/or a slow economy...well is this sound advice or just politics to get elected?...There is a record on how spending hasn't done what was promised....Democrats in Congress are now calling for driving over the fiscal cliff...This is leadership?...The Senate under Reid has been HORRIBLE and things don't look to be getting any better...

nochain wrote:It is long past time for the uber-partisans (on both sides) to go away. Anyone who thinks the country can continue down the current road without some tax increases and overhaul of the tax code doesn't have a clue. Now if the politicians would just use fiscal restraint......

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Completely agree with your post here . . . . . both sides, as you pointed out, must be willing to put some serious skin in the discussions. The 'pledge' is a ball and chain around the necks of reasonable Republicans. For the first time, there are signs of a willingness to break from this choke hold by some leading members of the GOP. It is an imperative . . . . raising taxes alone will not solve our fiscal problem but it is one element coupled with both tax loopholes and entitlement reform to demonstrate both sides are committed to solving this nation's fiscal problems in a responsible way.

boards of FL wrote:I say vote everyone out who even took that guy's pledge. How stupid must one be to sign a pledge that states that, no matter what, you're going to favor a particular policy. No matter what new information comes to light or no matter what scenario you may find yourself in, by golly, you're still going to cling to this policy.

Essentially, just cover your ears, shut your eyes, basically block out reality, and then repeatedly shout, "I will not raise taxes! I will not raise taxes!"

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You articulate the frustrations felt by many but you are in denial if you believe that Grover Norquist is irrelevant. While I agree with your frustration the reality is that Norquist has demonstrated his ability to 'primary' those who break his pledge . . . . . that alone has kept them in line but circumstances have dramatically changed and the political will to raise taxes seems to be gaining support. Thx!

The current oath was enacted in 1884:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.


To the last one.....anybody signing an oath before taking office who does not in a public manner renounce the oath of no new taxes is a traitor and clearly fails in his current oath to this country. "mental reservation or purpose of evasion"......each and every person who takes the communist oath or Grover's oath are traitors all......................a true fiscal conservative need take no oath but supports and defends the constitution and works to do the same efficiently.....these traitors are no less offensive than the traitors who tried to destroy this union, and why the basic oath was modified.....time for a hearing to determine a breach of oath, and whether these pawns of the Oligarchy who despise our constitution should be tried for treason.

newswatcher wrote:

nochain wrote:

boards of FL wrote:I say vote everyone out who even took that guy's pledge. How stupid must one be to sign a pledge that states that, no matter what, you're going to favor a particular policy. No matter what new information comes to light or no matter what scenario you may find yourself in, by golly, you're still going to cling to this policy.

Essentially, just cover your ears, shut your eyes, basically block out reality, and then repeatedly shout, "I will not raise taxes! I will not raise taxes!"

While we are it, vote everyone else out who has held office the past few years. They were also willing participants in the political travesty that is occurring.

Vote everyone out that is unbending about making overdue cuts too?...In 2008 the cohw said it would be disastrous to raise taxes in a recession and/or a slow economy...well is this sound advice or just politics to get elected?...There is a record on how spending hasn't done what was promised....Democrats in Congress are now calling for driving over the fiscal cliff...This is leadership?...The Senate under Reid has been HORRIBLE and things don't look to be getting any better...

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I think practically everyone agree with your premise that along with raising revenue through higher taxes that we must reduce spending.

2seaoat wrote:The current oath was enacted in 1884:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.


To the last one.....anybody signing an oath before taking office who does not in a public manner renounce the oath of no new taxes is a traitor and clearly fails in his current oath to this country. "mental reservation or purpose of evasion"......each and every person who takes the communist oath or Grover's oath are traitors all......................a true fiscal conservative need take no oath but supports and defends the constitution and works to do the same efficiently.....these traitors are no less offensive than the traitors who tried to destroy this union, and why the basic oath was modified.....time for a hearing to determine a breach of oath, and whether these pawns of the Oligarchy who despise our constitution should be tried for treason.

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Great point SO, it really is a repudiation of the oath of office!

It is not my original thought and I heard this being discussed on a radio talk show with a great deal of clarity and certainty, I believe these folks are traitors. When a K street lobbyist who is a paid for shill of a small group of military industrial, oil, wall street, and the banksters can lock up congressional members to virtually abandon their oath of office for a loyalty to a third party organization which may actively be trying to destroy the United States and the constitution it was founded on........treason is too kind of a word.

2seaoat wrote:It is not my original thought and I heard this being discussed on a radio talk show with a great deal of clarity and certainty, I believe these folks are traitors. When a K street lobbyist who is a paid for shill of a small group of military industrial, oil, wall street, and the banksters can lock up congressional members to virtually abandon their oath of office for a loyalty to a third party organization which may actively be trying to destroy the United States and the constitution it was founded on........treason is too kind of a word.

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I embrace the reasoning completely . . . . .