finding a lump in your breast

bigdog wrote:You want me to name other ways to rule out breast cancer in a breast lump? Try a 3D Mammogram. They're available at Baptist Medical Center and ....

Breast cancer thread, huh?  Well, we have just a bit of (ongoing) experience with that in our household.  Over 10 years of experience, in fact.

Anyways, I'll spare you all the gory details, but if you want my opinion I wouldn't take my dog to Baptist Health of Pensacola for fleas.  If you like 'em .... well, I wish you luck.   Suffice it to say our experience was "not good" .... and I'm being kind to them by saying just that.  The docs at MD Anderson (both the surgeon and two oncologists) were absolutely aghast when they reviewed my wife's records from Baptist.  They're just damn lucky Florida malpractice laws are so protective of medical groups, that's all I can say.

bigdog wrote:

Vikingwoman wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:3D Mammogram....Still not definitive... what are the other many ways?

BTW... doctors do not just go poking around aimlessly with needles looking for lumps...they are visually guided or visually marked internally....and you know that.

And they're not done w/o a mammo first.

Which is why you don't get the biopsy done BEFORE any other procedures, which is what the original post suggested. No responsible doctor is going to begin cutting away at a woman's breast without doing "other procedures" first.  Reread the original post. She hasn't had a mammogram or ultrasound yet, if I understand the post correctly.
A simple mammogram was able to let me know for years before I had BC that I had cysts in my breasts. Cysts are easy to detect and it's easy to tell the difference in them and cancer. They look like hollow black holes, very distinctive.  A simple mammogram could easily relieve this lady's stress without a biopsy. That's what I'm saying. I suspect that is what her doctor is thinking too.
She's scared and she wants it all out now. She needs a doctor who is able to calm her down and do all the proper procedures first.
Then if it is cancer, she might as well get both of her breasts removed like I did. She's going to worry about BC recurring the rest of her life if she doesn't. Mastectomies aren't really all that bad anymore. You're in the hospital one night, out the next day, take a few pain pills for a week or so, and go on with the rest of your life. It's been several years now and my new breasts will never sag an inch. Most policies will pay for the reconstruction and you get whatever size you want!!!!Life goes on very happily.

That's not true either cysts are easy to detect. Mine was a cyst they said but it had material in it so they couldn't be sure so I had to come back in 6 months for another check. I hope they're right. I wish they just did the biopsy and got it over with. You can keep all that "well, were pretty sure stuff."

Sadly, they found cancer with the biopsy. She has an appointment next week at Northwestern Hospital, and then she is going to the Mayo in Mn. for a second opinion. I am happy they recognize the limits of our regional and rural hospitals. She has lost weight, but has a very positive attitude as her current doctor stated that 90% of this type of cancer is treatable. Good news.

She is getting a MRI Friday, and more tests downtown next week. She called tonight and seems upbeat, but has asked for our confidence not to share her diagnosis. The fear is overwhelming and I understand her request for silence on her disease. I have always told friends, family, business associates, and strangers at poker tables that I have cancer. To each their own.

My problem is that three months ago I mentioned to my wife that I did not like her coloring. I asked Mrs. Seaoat if she was aware of any illness. This is getting spooky as a week ago I saw another person who looked ill beyond something superficial. There is this characteristic grayish pale look about the face. I see it every month on the 21st floor, and this is about the fourth person which my observations have proved to be correct. This is difficult, because I am concerned about her husband's coloring. We are going to suggest when they go up to the Mayo he get a general physical.........I feel like the gatekeeper and do not even want to verbalize my thoughts any more as my wife is freaking, but there is a distinct look of cancer.

I have also seen that look. It is frightening for me to see it. My good friend had the look and then started losing weight. I urged her to go to the doctor, I nagged her sister and insisted she was sick. Months later they found cancer. That was 8 years ago... now she has a mass in her abdominal cavity.

Seaoat, my dad was very sick and I had taken him to 5 doctors... they did tests to include CT scans. Dad was developing Alzheimer's and was uncooperative for most exams.

I smelled the cancer on him. A good friend of mine, an ER physician, went with me to review his X-rays with a radiologist. A definitive reading could not be determined but it was speculated that he could have a very slight widening of the mediastinum. It was my dad and it seemed like no one wanted to make the wrong call.

The next day dad woke with a hoarseness. I took him that day to an ENT doctor. When the doc walked in dad said hello... the doctor turned to me and said, "come out in the hall". He said, "Joani your dad has a tumor that has clipped his phrenic nerve. He has cancer ." My feelings sick... I knew he had it, glad it was diagnosed but heart broken.

Dad died 4 months later of oat cell carcinoma. Part of my heart died with him.

2seaoat wrote:Sadly, they found cancer with the biopsy.  She has an appointment next week at Northwestern Hospital, and then she is going to the Mayo in Mn. for a second opinion.  I am happy they recognize the limits of our regional and rural hospitals.  She has lost weight, but has a very positive attitude as her current doctor stated that 90% of this type of cancer is treatable.   Good news.

Sorry to hear about the cancer, but glad for the good statistics. Many of us have been the beneficiaries of the large strides in breast cancer treatment in recent decades.

I find myself confused, tho, by your seeming to indicate that Northwestern is but a 'regional or rural' hospital. You've been singing their praises all this time for being a cutting edge teaching hospital and keeping you alive for 10 years. What am I missing, that required her going all the way to Mayo?

We are about two hours from Chicago. I had my first lung tumor removed at a regional, non chicago hospital. My friend went to the same hospital. We have no problems with their orthopedic folks setting my wife's broken leg and ankle, but a cancer treatment center they are not. She made two appointments. One with the Number 14 hospital in America, Northwestern, and one with the Mayo Clinic which is usually top ten. She is leaving the regional system.

Joannie I so agree. I think dogs can detect when a human has cancer, and I feel like I can look at somebody and determine that person "probably" has cancer. You make me sad when you talk about your dad and your loss of his companionship. My daughter is taking my demise very hard, and I just think there is a special bond between a daughter and father, where sons and fathers are too macho to make that emotional connection.

I am now worried about our friend's husband who has that white ashen look which caused both my wife and I to comment a couple weeks ago. It seems like some people just get ambushed by health issues.

Ghost, if you've read my posts you would know that I have also had years of experience with  breast cancer, but I'm obviously not as upset about it as you have been. My experience with gyn/ob and mammograms has been with Baptist Hospital my entire adult life.  All my kids were born there. The woman's center there was always excellent with their imaging services and it is one of the very few places that would give you the results the same day as you had your mammogram. That's why I went there- I didn't like waiting around either. As far as their doctors, there is no finer surgeon in Pensacola than Dr Tyson who did my surgery. He also had an upbeat attitude-"lets get in there, get it out, and quit worrying about it"- that I absolutely loved. Once I went to him, my fears were completely alleviated, and he was right in his diagnosis.
So you can put the folks at Baptist down if you want to, but they saved my life and I think they are top notch.
You're not the only one who has faced BC, but those who face it without panic and dread are usually rewarded with better results. Unless you and your doctor assume you'll beat it and act like that's so, you're in trouble. Dr Tyson was a Godsend.
Try not to be so patronizing.

And nobody can smell cancer on a person. Now I remember why I check in here so rarely. Statements like that are taken without question. LOL

And nobody can smell cancer on a person. Now I remember why I check in here so rarely. Statements like that are taken without question. LOL


Cancer raises polyamine levels, and they do have a distinct odor. ... Using an electronic nose, researchers have been able to detect prostate cancer from urine smell print profiles. These studies, and others like them, are a promising area of cancer research. It's still in its infancy, though.Jul 22, 2016

is there an odor?


When it comes to cancer, early detection can save lives. This is why researchers around the world are working to find new ways to detect cancer before it has the chance to spread.

One interesting avenue of research concerns the smells associated with cancer that the human nose can’t necessarily detect. Researchers are looking to canines, hoping to make use of their superior olfactory talents.
What the research says

In a 2008 study, researchers taught a dog to differentiate between types and grades of ovarian tumors versus healthy samples. In controlled experiments, the study authors found that their trained dogs were very reliable at sniffing out ovarian cancers

https://www.healthline.com/health/cancer/can-you-smell-cancer#research

I have never been treated at Baptist or any other hospital in Pensacola. If I had cancer in Pensacola, I would go to Tampa, Houston, or Birmingham. My Pulmonary doc in thirty years had only seen two cases with my type of cancer, while my new Pulmonary doc at Northwestern does 150 operations a year on my rare cancer, and my Pulmonary doc did not know what an octreotide scan was, and he failed to put me on Sando injections......I will go with common sense and probabilities, but if you think a good bedside manner is important without the expertise.....go for it.

[quote="bigdog"]My experience with gyn/ob and mammograms has been with Baptist Hospital my entire adult life.  All my kids were born there. The woman's center there was always excellent with their imaging services and it is one of the very few places that would give you the results the same day as you had your mammogram. That's why I went there- I didn't like waiting around either. As far as their doctors, there is no finer surgeon in Pensacola than Dr Tyson who did my surgery. He also had an upbeat attitude-"lets get in there, get it out, and quit worrying about it"- that I absolutely loved. Once I went to him, my fears were completely alleviated, and he was right in his diagnosis./quote]

I feel the same way you do about Baptist, the Gulf Breeze Women's Center, and Dr. Jack Tyson, who also did my lumpectomy.   (For those who don't recall, Dr. Tyson was the leader on the team of surgeons who re-attached the arm of 8-year-old Jessie Arbogast when it was bitten off by a bull shark here back in, I think, 2002. Edit correction: 2001)  

Couldn't tell from your post, bigdog, whether or not you know that the warm, wonderful, and skilled Dr. Tyson has left the area (our loss) and is now with Yale New Haven Health, doing general surgery out of Bridgeport Hospital.  Also don't know when you last saw him but he's lost a ton of weight since he did my surgery.  Here's a pic:

https://www.bridgeporthospital.org/physicians/john-w-tyson.aspx

Not sure why his page doesn't mention cancer/breast surgery; maybe he had to stick to other types to complement existing staff there; who knows?  But he's always been a general surgeon and an excellent one.

2seaoat wrote:You make me sad when you talk about your dad and your loss of his companionship.

Sad?? Really??

But he's always been a general surgeon and an excellent one.



I believe there are qualitative differences in medical care. I find the analogy to the Wahoos. A player may be an excellent hitter in the minors, but there is no comparison between the big leagues. I golfed with the doc who removed my gallbladder at the local hospital.......no problem, but he failed to take pathology from the gallbladder when it was clearly marked from observation to be "diseased"......yep if I was not dying from cancer in part because of this blunder, I too would be telling you what a great surgeon he was.......he was not.....he was a great guy but minor league talent......period. Talent like cream rises to the top, and it is the exception not the rule to find great doctors not associated with great research hospitals......sorry......I have suffered because of minor league performance from doctors who otherwise were thought to be great docs at our regional hospital. To each their own, but regional hospitals kill people. Why do you think Studer made so much money in Pensacola?

There was a team of surgeons working on Jessie. Dr Ian Rogers whom I assisted in surgery several times along with my boss was the leading surgeon for Jessie.


Dr. Ian Rogers was a pioneer in world of plastic surgery - independent
Apr 8, 2009 · WICKLOW native Dr. W. Ian Rogers, a plastic surgeon who gained prominence for surgically reattaching the severed arm of a young shark-attack victim, died unexpectedly at his Florida home in the U.S. on Saturday last. ... Dr. Rogers, originally from County Wicklow, moved to Pensacola ...

bigdog wrote:Ghost, if you've read my posts you would know that I have also had years of experience with  breast cancer, but I'm obviously not as upset about it as you have been. My experience with gyn/ob and mammograms has been with Baptist Hospital my entire adult life.  All my kids were born there. The woman's center there was always excellent with their imaging services and it is one of the very few places that would give you the results the same day as you had your mammogram. That's why I went there- I didn't like waiting around either. As far as their doctors, there is no finer surgeon in Pensacola than Dr Tyson who did my surgery. He also had an upbeat attitude-"lets get in there, get it out, and quit worrying about it"- that I absolutely loved. Once I went to him, my fears were completely alleviated, and he was right in his diagnosis.
So you can put the folks at Baptist down if you want to, but they saved my life and I think they are top notch.
You're not the only one who has faced BC, but those who face it without panic and dread are usually rewarded with better results. Unless you and your doctor assume you'll beat it and act like that's so, you're in trouble. Dr Tyson was a Godsend.
Try not to be so patronizing.

And nobody can smell cancer on a person. Now I remember why I check in here so rarely. Statements like that are taken without question. LOL

Often wrong but never in doubt.

Still waiting on the many other ways to detect breast cancer other than a bioosy.

Yes, Linda, it was Dr Jack Tyson who did my double mastectomy and I agree with you that he is a wonderful doctor and has the best bedside manner of just about any doctor I've ever had. I hate it that he has left this area- I didn't know that had happened. It's been about 6 years now since he did my surgery and since it went so well I didn't have to do any long series of follow-ups. He wasn't a small guy when he did my surgery so finding out he's lost all that weight is amazing. He never once allowed me to worry about my future once I was in his care though, and in my opinion, that's the perfect kind of doctor for anyone with any type of cancer. I didn't know he was the one who reattached that boy's hand either, now I am even more impressed than ever. Such a loss for our city.

I don't doubt some dogs can smell diseases, but my dad died of cancer and I've known many people with cancer. I don't believe that a human can smell the disease if the person is kept clean.

Same back to you Joanie.
What I said was that a mammogram can distinguish between a cyst and a growth that might possibly be a cancer. When you leave a women's center and you are told you have cysts in your breasts, you shouldn't go home and worry about your lumps or lump being cancer. Technologists aren't stupid and neither are the radiologists who read the mammograms. A biopsy should not be step one in determining breast cancer. You can disagree. I suspect pretty much every breast cancer specialist out there would agree with me.
Not even a biopsy is 100%. It was not 100% correct with my daughter. That is an observation based on personal experience.
You like to argue for the sake of argument and it always ends as a waste of time. You like to cherry pick phrases and argue them, ignoring the obvious meaning of the entire post. You don't want a serious discussion, just a gotcha phrase. It reminds me of other posters from the past.
No, you can't smell cancer. Maybe my blue tick hound can, but you can't.
If you can, you should volunteer your services to a cancer center somewhere so you can screen women when they come in without them having to do any other procedures. God hates it when people waste their talents.

2seaoat wrote:We are about two hours from Chicago.  I had my first lung tumor removed at a regional, non chicago hospital.  My friend went to the same hospital.  We have no problems with their orthopedic folks setting my wife's broken leg and ankle, but a cancer treatment center they are not.  She made two appointments.  One with the Number 14 hospital in America, Northwestern, and one with the Mayo Clinic which is usually top ten.  She is leaving the regional system.

Joannie I so agree.   I think dogs can detect when a human has cancer, and I feel like I can look at somebody and determine that person "probably" has cancer.  You make me sad when you talk about your dad and your loss of his companionship.  My daughter is taking my demise very hard, and I just think there is a special bond between a daughter and father, where sons and fathers are too macho to make that emotional connection.

I am now worried about our friend's husband who has that white ashen look which caused both my wife and I to comment a couple weeks ago.  It seems like some people just get ambushed by health issues.  

I was very close to my dad. We were fishing buddies. Dad would throw the net and catch mullet. I would clean them and we would cook them on the dock.  I was off on Fridays and weather permitting we fished the intercoastal most of those days.

I wanted to surprise dad and learned to throw a net. I started with a small 7 foot net with pink trim....Hubby would toss out a lethargic mullet and I would throw my net.

We took dad camping at Ft. PICKENS  and went to the coast guard station dock. I grabbed my new net and showed him how I could throw....he was so proud to see his 8 month pregnancy daughter hit a school of silver mullet....20 mullet pulled in.

So many good memories and laughs. When dad started developing Alzheimers, oh gosh, we denied it for awhile but.... Mom and dad volunteered for St. Vincent de Paul. Dad went on the truck to pick up donated furniture. I came home and found my den couch replaced with a tweed orange plaid couch he bought from St. Vincent. Later dad replaced my oak breakfast table with captain chairs....I got a white round formica table with yellow swivel vinyl tub chairs. Ugh! Dad told me the oak table made more money for St. Vincent than my couch....I prayed to St. Vincent and begged mom to make him stop. I held my breath coming home on volunteer Tuesday.

bigdog wrote:Same back to you Joanie.
What I said was that a mammogram can distinguish between a cyst and a growth that might possibly be a cancer. When you leave a women's center and you are told you have cysts in your breasts, you shouldn't go home and worry about your lumps or lump being cancer. Technologists aren't stupid and neither are the radiologists who read the mammograms. A biopsy should not be step one in determining breast cancer. You can disagree. I suspect pretty much every breast cancer specialist out there would agree with me.
Not even a biopsy is 100%. It was not 100% correct with my daughter. That is an observation based on personal experience.
You like to argue for the sake of argument and it always ends as a waste of time. You like to cherry pick phrases and argue them, ignoring the obvious meaning of the entire post. You don't want a serious discussion, just a gotcha phrase. It reminds me of other posters from the past.
No, you can't smell cancer. Maybe my blue tick hound can, but you can't.
If you can, you should volunteer your services to a cancer center somewhere so you can screen women when they come in without them having to do any other procedures. God hates it when people waste their talents.

You forgot the next sentence......"There are so many less invasive procedures that can be done to rule out cancer in the breast."

Joanimaroni wrote:

2seaoat wrote:We are about two hours from Chicago.  I had my first lung tumor removed at a regional, non chicago hospital.  My friend went to the same hospital.  We have no problems with their orthopedic folks setting my wife's broken leg and ankle, but a cancer treatment center they are not.  She made two appointments.  One with the Number 14 hospital in America, Northwestern, and one with the Mayo Clinic which is usually top ten.  She is leaving the regional system.

Joannie I so agree.   I think dogs can detect when a human has cancer, and I feel like I can look at somebody and determine that person "probably" has cancer.  You make me sad when you talk about your dad and your loss of his companionship.  My daughter is taking my demise very hard, and I just think there is a special bond between a daughter and father, where sons and fathers are too macho to make that emotional connection.

I am now worried about our friend's husband who has that white ashen look which caused both my wife and I to comment a couple weeks ago.  It seems like some people just get ambushed by health issues.  

I was very close to my dad. We were fishing buddies. Dad would throw the net and catch mullet. I would clean them and we would cook them on the dock.  I was off on Fridays and weather permitting we fished the intercoastal most of those days.

I wanted to surprise dad and learned to throw a net. I started with a small 7 foot net with pink trim....Hubby would toss out a lethargic mullet and I would throw my net.

We took dad camping at Ft. PICKENS  and went to the coast guard station dock. I grabbed my new net and showed him how I could throw....he was so proud to see his 8 month pregnancy daughter hit a school of silver mullet....20 mullet pulled in.

So many good memories and laughs. When dad started developing Alzheimers, oh gosh, we denied it for awhile but.... Mom and dad volunteered for St. Vincent de Paul. Dad went on the truck to pick up donated furniture. I came home and found my den couch replaced with a tweed orange plaid couch he bought from St. Vincent. Later dad replaced my oak breakfast table with captain chairs....I got a white round formica table with yellow swivel vinyl tub chairs. Ugh! Dad told me the oak table made more money for St. Vincent than my couch....I prayed to St. Vincent and begged mom to make him stop. I held my breath coming home on volunteer Tuesday.

Seaoat I will have to tell you about dad's premonition. ..another day!

bigdog wrote:Same back to you Joanie.
What I said was that a mammogram can distinguish between a cyst and a growth that might possibly be a cancer. When you leave a women's center and you are told you have cysts in your breasts, you shouldn't go home and worry about your lumps or lump being cancer. Technologists aren't stupid and neither are the radiologists who read the mammograms. A biopsy should not be step one in determining breast cancer. You can disagree. I suspect pretty much every breast cancer specialist out there would agree with me.
Not even a biopsy is 100%. It was not 100% correct with my daughter. That is an observation based on personal experience.
You like to argue for the sake of argument and it always ends as a waste of time. You like to cherry pick phrases and argue them, ignoring the obvious meaning of the entire post. You don't want a serious discussion, just a gotcha phrase. It reminds me of other posters from the past.
No, you can't smell cancer. Maybe my blue tick hound can, but you can't.
If you can, you should volunteer your services to a cancer center somewhere so you can screen women when they come in without them having to do any other procedures. God hates it when people waste their talents.

Well, a 3 D mammogram or ultrasound didn't distinguish between a cyst or a tumor in my case. I had to come back in 6 months to check it again.

[quote="2seaoat"if you think a good bedside manner is important without the expertise.....go for it.[/quote]

Don't know who the "you" is you're addressing here, Sea, but I never said that.  In fact it's total and complete bullshit.

Jack Tyson is a skilled surgeon who was recommended to me by my long-time, widely respected ob/gyn doc, and was perfectly capable of removing my tiny 8 mm tumor and sentinel nodes and establishing clear margins.   If people listened to you, very few skilled surgeons (except in a very few top hospitals nationwide) would have much business involving tumor removal; there would be fewer entering the field and less availability for patients.

Tyson's upbeat, encouraging and calming qualities were icing on the cake -- totally secondary but greatly appreciated.  After all, patient attitude/mindset is important, too.

bigdog wrote:I didn't know he was the one who reattached that boy's hand either, now I am even more impressed than ever. Such a loss for our city.

It's still a significant loss despite the fact that I was mistaken about Tyson's having been the lead surgeon on the Arbogast case.  He was part of the team during the re-attachment procedure, but not the surgeon in charge at that point. Sorry, guys.

From a CNN.com article at the time:

Tyson works with The Surgery Group, a company of general surgeons in Pensacola. "My role in the Arbogast surgery was initial resuscitation and initial care of the patient. I took care of the leg wound" -- Arbogast was seriously bitten on his right thigh -- "and I assisted with the arm wound."

yes, if everybody listened to me, they would be going to top twenty research hospitals when it concerns cancer. I have seen utter incompetence at two local hospitals. Now if you broke your arm.......no problem, the local hospital will work. I have a hospital six miles away which I would drive three hours to chicago before being admitted there. Are there good doctors at local and regional hospitals......yes, but the probabilities are clear that with cancer survival depends on the highest probability treatment........and that is NOT a local or regional hospital.

2seaoat wrote: cancer survival depends on the highest probability treatment........and that is NOT a local or regional hospital.

Tell that to the "probable" millions of cancer survivors treated by local or regional hospitals.  Obviously yours is a rare and special case.