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Perfect Accuracy

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1 Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 11:12 am

President Trump has brought a new theory of relativity to the White House. At one end of the truth spectrum is his words "Perfect Accuracy", and apparently a spectrum of lies which are not redefined to be something short of Perfect Accuracy. I used to understand the truth and a lie. I never really understood somebody telling me the Bears won by 14 points, and they really lost the game as not being a lie. President Trump would argue that the statement that the Bears won by 14 points is not Perfect Accuracy. George Orwell described in detail how totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth. I am in total disbelief that across the board Americans are not finding this conduct unacceptable.

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2 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 11:24 am

2seaoat wrote:I am in total disbelief that across the board Americans are not finding this conduct unacceptable.

B ... bu ... but, ... what about entitlement reform???

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3 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 11:34 am

I totally miscalculated the depths of his illness where he really has no empathy or concern for Americans or using his bully pulpit to actually do good. He his fatally flawed with personality disorders which render him so handicapped that he has become dysfunctional. Entitlement reform is required. He has wasted political capital simply tearing down anything President Obama had done because at a dinner the President had ridiculed President Trump about having to make lofty decisions about firing Gary Busse. Who would ever have guessed that this deeply flawed individual would be firing an FBI director.

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4 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 11:46 am

2seaoat wrote: George Orwell described in detail how totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth.  

Citation, please, and maybe a quote or two.

You're doing the same damn thing Trump does, asserting something without any specific reference. He says "People say..." or "I read somewhere..." and you, in another thread, said "it is being reported that...' and  "The President is being reported as..." You're as bad as he is.  Worse, maybe, because he doesn't even pretend he's telling the truth.

If you're referring to 1984, that was futuristic fiction--hyperbolic in the extreme--not a description "in detail" of an actual totalitarian regime.

You, apparently, don't even know the difference between fact and fiction.

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5 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 12:00 pm



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6 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 12:10 pm

Citation, please, and maybe a quote or two.


I am mostly speaking to well read college educated folks here, I cannot waste time educating you. See if you can figure it out yourself without googling. You might try reading some Orwell and elevate your pedestrian game.

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7 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 12:23 pm

Here is the real President mopping the floor with the orange cancerous growth that now pretends to be one. Ah the good old days.


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8 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 12:27 pm

The Graphic is entirely misleading. It puts a sticker on Social Security that it is 100% funded. It is not. In 2035 or possibly sooner benefits will only be able to be paid at the 70% level. So if a person is 65 years of age today, in 18 years at the age of 83, a person getting $2,000 a month social security will see the monthly payment dropped to $1400. This is not some distant and abstract problem. It is an immediate problem which Tip and Reagan forestalled, but that was 35 years ago and the actuarial integrity required ten years ago another raise in revenues and slight adjustments to the qualifying age based on longer life spans. Entitlement reform ignored will have horrible impacts on elderly people 17 years into the future. A person who is forty today has a planning horizon for a broken promise. The babyboomers are heading into the valley of death about to be decimated because the greed of tax reduction and responsibility to future generations was selfishly abandoned. Pay back will be a bitch.

Second, Medicare contributions are insanely too low for upper income retiring individuals who are terminating $1,200 monthly health premiums for $200 medicare premiums. You could not run your business with these broken actuarial tables, and you certainly cannot run a nation with such avoidance of the problems.

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9 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 12:46 pm

2seaoat wrote:Citation, please, and maybe a quote or two.


I am mostly speaking to well read college educated folks here, I cannot waste time educating you.   See if you can figure it out yourself without googling.  You might try reading some Orwell and elevate your pedestrian game.

Just so you know, in 1967 I wrote a 35-page paper on the evolution of Orwell's political opinions. I traced his thought starting with Down and Out, through Wigan Pier and Catalonia--the turning point of his outlook, tempered in the heat of the Spanish Civil War--ending with Animal Farm and, of course, Nineteen Eighty-Four.

Anytime you want to bump uglies about Orwell, I'd be happy to accommodate you.

Let's rock-'n-roll right out here in public and let the readers decide.

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10 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 3:58 pm

Two hours to read and google. See even a dumb animal can be led to water. Then of course you understand my post and where I got my reference? Maybe you are still reading, and want to bedazzle us with your afternoon research. Poser.

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11 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 4:18 pm

2seaoat wrote:Two hours to read and google.  See even a dumb animal can be led to water.  Then of course you understand my post and where I got my reference?  Maybe you are still reading, and want to bedazzle us with your afternoon research. Poser.  

I understood your quote and, as usual, you're full of shit. Orwell never did what you claim. If you think I'm wrong, then prove it.

Cite with a quotation where "George Orwell described in detail how totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth."

Take your time.

You post your pompous bullshit and refuse to back it up. You're just like Trump with his lies.

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12 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 4:59 pm

del.capslock wrote:
2seaoat wrote:Two hours to read and google.  See even a dumb animal can be led to water.  Then of course you understand my post and where I got my reference?  Maybe you are still reading, and want to bedazzle us with your afternoon research. Poser.  

I understood your quote and, as usual, you're full of shit. Orwell never did what you claim. If you think I'm wrong, then prove it.

Cite with a quotation where "George Orwell described in detail how totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth."

Take your time.

You post your pompous bullshit and refuse to back it up. You're just like Trump with his lies.

This comes to my mind:

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

Anyone who's read Animal Farm and 1984 knows Orwell is telling stories wherein totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth. That's the whole point.

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13 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 5:06 pm

Yes, Orwell had diverse writings and understanding of totalitarian regimes. Our Poser is trying to learn, but others are welcome to try to educate him. I am simply amused. Again.

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14 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 5:24 pm

2seaoat wrote:Yes, Orwell had diverse writings and understanding of totalitarian regimes.  Our Poser is trying to learn, but others are welcome to try to educate him.  I am simply amused.   Again.

It is amusing in this context but taken to a national level it makes you wonder what goes on in schools. How is it that, for example, I see reports on TV that the vast majority of Trump supporters STILL think he's doing just a bang-up job shaking things up in Washington.

There is a difference between making improvements to the way government works (never his goal anyway) and barging around like a bull in a China shop breaking everything in sight because he does not know how to navigate the system, nor does he care to learn.

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15 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 5:26 pm

othershoe1030 wrote:
Cite with a quotation where "George Orwell described in detail how totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth."


Anyone who's read Animal Farm and 1984 knows Orwell is telling stories wherein totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth. That's the whole point.

And that's precisely my point. Animal Farm and Nineteen Eighty-Four are both speculative fiction. They may illustrate Orwell's disenchantment with Socialist totalitarianism but neither one "described in detail how totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth."

Using them to prove a point is like calling Gone With the Wind a detailed description of plantation life in the South.

All I wanted was a citation. If you're going to post stuff you should at least be able to back it up with facts not fiction. Apparently 2seaoat doesn't know the difference.

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16 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 5:43 pm

del.capslock wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
Cite with a quotation where "George Orwell described in detail how totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth."


Anyone who's read Animal Farm and 1984 knows Orwell is telling stories wherein totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth. That's the whole point.

And that's precisely my point. Animal Farm and Nineteen Eighty-Four are both speculative fiction. They may illustrate Orwell's disenchantment with Socialist totalitarianism but neither one "described in detail how totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth."

Using them to prove a point is like calling Gone With the Wind a detailed description of plantation life in the South.

All I wanted was a citation. If you're going to post stuff you should at least be able to back it up with facts not fiction. Apparently 2seaoat doesn't know the difference.

I think there is more than one way of describing in detail a certain condition. You could write a scientific paper on some disease describing how it attacks the body or you could write a novel telling the story of someone struggling to live with the disease. Each one has its own impact.

I personally think Orwell's two books cited here make a very vivid impression of life in a totalitarian system. I think for the purposes of making a point of this to a broad audience it is more effective than reading about political systems in a polly-sci book. The books bring the story to life. It gives people something to refer to.

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17 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 5:59 pm

othershoe1030 wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
I think there is more than one way of describing in detail a certain condition. You could write a scientific paper on some disease describing how it attacks the body or you could write a novel telling the story of someone struggling to live with the disease. Each one has its own impact.

I personally think Orwell's two books cited here make a very vivid impression of life in a totalitarian system. I think for the purposes of making a point of this to a broad audience it is more effective than reading about political systems in a polly-sci book. The books bring the story to life. It gives people something to refer to.

Fine. Then he could have cited them with quotes, which is all I asked him to do in the beginning and which he refused to do. He just made a blanket statement with no link or citation. That's chickenshit. I could say "Marx described in detail that Capitalism sucks" but without a citation or some quotes, it's bullshit.

My beef is that 2seaoat does this all the time. He wants to be taken seriously but he doesn't want to do serious work. HE'S NOT A SERIOUS PERSON, HE'S A PHONY.

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18 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 6:14 pm

like calling Gone With the Wind a detailed description of plantation life in the South.

Now that is some high level conceptual thought. Thank you for confirming the obvious. I am glad your reading today has helped fill some of your continuing deficiencies, but the Gone with the Wind analogy......priceless. I am happy to see other forum members are not burdened with such a pedestrian need for instruction. I am enjoying this. To think I am speaking with a person who wrote a 35 page paper on Orwell. Was that Freshman year in High School after you read Animal Farm in eighth grade? Was it typed, or written in long hand. I am impressed, because the cutting and pasting must have involved Elmer's glue.

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19 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 7:08 pm

del.capslock wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
del.capslock wrote:
I think there is more than one way of describing in detail a certain condition. You could write a scientific paper on some disease describing how it attacks the body or you could write a novel telling the story of someone struggling to live with the disease. Each one has its own impact.

I personally think Orwell's two books cited here make a very vivid impression of life in a totalitarian system. I think for the purposes of making a point of this to a broad audience it is more effective than reading about political systems in a polly-sci book. The books bring the story to life. It gives people something to refer to.

Fine. Then he could have cited them with quotes, which is all I asked him to do in the beginning and which he refused to do. He just made a blanket statement with no link or citation. That's chickenshit. I could say "Marx described in detail that Capitalism sucks" but without a citation or some quotes, it's bullshit.

My beef is that 2seaoat does this all the time. He wants to be taken seriously but he doesn't want to do serious work. HE'S NOT A SERIOUS PERSON, HE'S A PHONY.

I can relate to your gripe about no link in many cases but really, how many people could have read Orwell's books without drawing the conclusion that the authorities in them had not destroyed the truth? Just the name Orwell is enough of a reference. I don't think it requires footnotes, in this case to make the point that the Trumpster lives in his own world and makes things up as he goes along.

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20 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 7:26 pm

2seaoat wrote:President Trump has brought a new theory of relativity to the White House.  At one end of the truth spectrum is his words "Perfect Accuracy", and apparently a spectrum of lies which are not redefined to be something short of Perfect Accuracy.  I used to understand the truth and a lie.   I never really understood somebody telling me the Bears won by 14 points, and they really lost the game as not being a lie.  President Trump would argue that the statement that the Bears won by 14 points is not Perfect Accuracy.  George Orwell described in detail how totalitarian regimes manipulate the truth.   I am in total disbelief that across the board Americans are not finding this conduct unacceptable.

I'm watching the news on MSNBC and CNN via Sling and its "news package", which unfortunately does not include Fox News, why is that?

We've been warned by many to guard against letting this administration start standing for what is normal. This is NOT normal and we should not forget that. Given that thought I continue to be surprised at how many times I hear phrases like: another lie from the WH; or he (Trump) lies all the time; or How can we believe anything that he says? and so on.
Fewer people think he is believable now than earlier in his administration.
This is encouraging to me because they are calling it as they see it. Previously the word lie would not be part of a news story re a president.




Trump Loses Ground on Key Characteristics
Percentage who think each of the following applies to Donald Trump
                                               

http://www.gallup.com/poll/208640/majority-no-longer-thinks-trump-keeps-promises.aspx

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21 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 7:42 pm

how many people could have read Orwell's books without drawing the conclusion that the authorities in them had not destroyed the truth? Just the name Orwell is enough of a reference.

It appears at least one is having difficulty with understanding Orwell.

In regard to Sling TV, I also have the basic package which does not include Msnbc or Fox. I have been very happy without those two networks. I think you can for $5 more a month get both of the shows in their premium package, but I have not looked at that for about six months. I am very happy with the streaming tv. It has been great. I have adjusted to the HBO not playing some of the shows until the next day, but heck Bill is as good as he is on Friday night is just as good on Saturday morning.

I find that CNN is more informative and fact oriented than either Fox or MSNBC, both of which I watched alternating between the two. I think I am much more balanced and calm breaking my addiction to opinion news.

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22 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 10:41 pm

2seaoat wrote:how many people could have read Orwell's books without drawing the conclusion that the authorities in them had not destroyed the truth? Just the name Orwell is enough of a reference.

It appears at least one is having difficulty with understanding Orwell.

In regard to Sling TV, I also have the basic package which does not include Msnbc or Fox.  I have been very happy without those two networks.   I think you can for $5 more a month get both of the shows in their premium package, but I have not looked at that for about six months.   I am very happy with the streaming tv.  It has been great.  I have adjusted to the HBO not playing some of the shows until the next day, but heck Bill is as good as he is on Friday night is just as good on Saturday morning.

I find that CNN is more informative and fact oriented than either Fox or MSNBC, both of which I watched alternating between the two.  I think I am much more balanced and calm breaking my addiction to opinion news.

I have always known what FOX represented, to the point that, as I have said, I changed the channel whenever possible in a public venue. It amazes me that, given the fallout on Ailes and O'Reilly, people haven't wised up. They're victims of propaganda, and they don't even know it.

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23 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/12/2017, 11:01 pm

2seaoat wrote:how many people could have read Orwell's books without drawing the conclusion that the authorities in them had not destroyed the truth? Just the name Orwell is enough of a reference.

It appears at least one is having difficulty with understanding Orwell.

In regard to Sling TV, I also have the basic package which does not include Msnbc or Fox.  I have been very happy without those two networks.   I think you can for $5 more a month get both of the shows in their premium package, but I have not looked at that for about six months.   I am very happy with the streaming tv.  It has been great.  I have adjusted to the HBO not playing some of the shows until the next day, but heck Bill is as good as he is on Friday night is just as good on Saturday morning.

I find that CNN is more informative and fact oriented than either Fox or MSNBC, both of which I watched alternating between the two.  I think I am much more balanced and calm breaking my addiction to opinion news.

Mr. Oats, I recall a while back you outlining a cord cutting approach with the TV package . . . . . would you please outline what you have learned and share . . . . . ???

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24 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/13/2017, 7:34 am

2seaoat wrote:like calling Gone With the Wind a detailed description of plantation life in the South.

Now that is some high level conceptual thought.  Thank you for confirming the obvious.  I am glad your reading today has helped fill some of your continuing deficiencies, but the Gone with the Wind analogy......priceless.  I am happy to see other forum members are not burdened with such a pedestrian need for instruction.  I am enjoying this.  To think I am speaking with a person who wrote a 35 page paper on Orwell.  Was that Freshman year in High School after you read Animal Farm in eighth grade?   Was it typed, or written in long hand.  I am impressed, because the cutting and pasting must have involved Elmer's glue.

No, it was in the first term of my Sophomore year while working on a dual PoliSci/History major--with a minor in English Lit--at a serious University, not one of those silly-ass Illinois diploma mills of which you're so proud. It was typed in one of the study spaces at Shapiro, which will tell you all you need to know.

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25 Re: Perfect Accuracy on 5/13/2017, 9:05 am

would you please outline what you have learned and share . . . . . ???

Our direct TV bill was getting close to $140 per month for a couple special channels, HBO, and the basic cable channels.  We often would lose coverage during storms, and then saw our daughter's direct TV bill was $225 with almost all the channels.   It was an addiction costing $1,800 a year.

We had put up a 35 foot flagpole a couple years ago, so our first step was to put up a directional antenna on our flagpole.  We can now get our local channels through digital free signals rather than direct tv, but the best part is we get metv, grit tv, laff tv, and other specialty tv for free with almost 40 channels to choose.  Next we went to Best Buy and spent $45 for a Roku streaming tv and signed up for Netflix, Hulu, Sling, and HBO.  We upgraded our internet speed for $5 a month, and on a promotion got a second Roku for free.   My wife has one on her TV, and we have one in our family room where I sleep in a lazy boy.  We get all the basic channels like espn, history, AE, cnn, amc, tnt, etc. but the HBO requires watching the programs a day after they are played on regular HBO.  I watch vice news each week day, and our total bill is less than fifty dollars a month, a savings close to $90 a month.  I spend about 60/40 on the streaming with 40 on the free antenna tv and the specialty shows which are mostly tv series from when I was a kid which at this point in my life is very relaxing and fun.  I would recommend to everyone who has a good stream of broadband to cut the cable and direct tv monopoly.   Our experience has been very good except that on the second TV, the ROKU will limit your watching the same program on both TVs.  So my wife can be watching HBO and I can be watching CNN and there is no problem, but if we are both watching CNN one of the roku receivers will shut off the program.  We have adjusted and with almost a hundred bucks a month savings, we have broken our addiction.

We also take the roku reciever to florida for the four months we are down there and watch all the tv without having to get a TV package with the cable company or direct TV saving us another $1,200 a year as we used to have the monthly cost in Florida and in Illinois. So in our situation our TV addiction was costing us almost $3,000 more than we are now paying.

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