Do you think moving the estate tax exemption from 125k to 4million is correct?

2seaoat wrote:I am going to be paying more taxes regardless of who is elected president. It is simple. The trickle down cut taxes phase of this country is so over. It will be grinding time......we will have to grind this debt down year by year, and taxpayer by taxpayer.....but I want a fair game. I want a game which is not rigged and I want tax rates returned to where they were in the late 80s, and I want real shrinkage in government. Romney cannot do this.

Rogue wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Sorry folks we have 16 trillion dollars debt and it is not just the 6% of deadbeats who got us there. Estate taxes have always been fair. Taxes on dividends has always been fair. The ATM calculations have always been fair. Capital gains taxes have always been fair. It is absurd to even have a conversation with folks who do not want to pay anything, because they are the problem. They have bought the congress and we have seen top rates cut in half in the last 30 years. Where is the concept of moderation, and balanced approach to running this country. The bootstrap generalizations because of lazy mopes and dopes who are structurally in our system around 6-8%......the 47% are mostly senior citizens who have done their duty.

So let us talk about the fantasy. Good corn farm land can go as high as 10k an acre. Currently a person can die with a 500 acre farm and never have to pay a dime. 200 bushels an acre midwest farmland is getting $7 buck a bushel or 1,400 gross receipts or 700k gross receipts for that 500 acre farm......I will be generous as to costs, but lets say the farmer after fertilizer, fuel and depreciation on equipment is clearing 350k. Now the example I am giving is a real example. For the last 20 years this 500 acre farm has been getting 40k annual farm subsidy. So this farmer this year will be making around 390k.

So farmer and wife die, and this farm passes to their children tax free. Now in 1980 that same farm would pay about 200k estate tax because the exemption was only 125K. The federal government has lost 200k revenue on the transfer of this farm, and cannot even get capital gains tax treatment of a long term capital asset which would currently be 75k......nothing under the current law. Do you realize how many trillions of dollars has been lost by going to far in lowering the estate tax.

So what is the answer. Drop the estate tax back to one million per person. It is real simple to execute an estate plan and transfer assets during a lifetime, but at 1 million that farmer is now going to pay around 100k plus or minus dollars. Now Gunz makes a good point.....in the old days it was a real problem, but you are talking about 25% of one years earning on that 500 acre farm......or better yet get a 100k loan and pay the tax, and collect your 40k farm subsidy and pay your tax. Sorry, there is nothing worse than selfish people who think carrying a 16 trillion dollar debt is the fault of the 6% of the deadbeats.....it is not.....it has been the abandonment of common sense and not returning our rates to where we can balance our budgets. If you do not want to live in America and support this country economically move........otherwise pay your fair share.

I pay about $20,000 a year in taxes. The last few years Ive only gotten back about 25% of that due to child tax credits. Unlike YOU, I will never see a retirement. I will work till I drop over dead. Ive had my retirement fund wiped out practically 3 times in the last decade. 2001, 2008 and most recently due to my own struggles.

it is a well known fact that Gen X is fucked. unless they are gov employees with that big fat PENSION plan that is larger than our entire DEFENSE budget.

medicare will not be there for me, SS will not be there for me. and I will more than likely not be there for me. I am your typical american middle class worker. Whos life revolves around nothing more important than getting my mule ass up everyday to go to work. dont matter if I am sick. i must go work. and I will die at work.

so when you go on about all these cuts that effect my employer, your fucking me over. Because I know all to well, my employers are not going to give me a raise so I can save up. Just the oposit. they will hire younger cheaper labor and replace me. which is the way this economy is working now.

The only thing that has kept me in the workforce is my great knowledge of my profession. thats for now.

soon enough I expect that things will be so tight that quality no longer matters and only numbers matters. thats when I cease to matter and have to lower my standard of living and still I get to die at my pathetic job working.

but none of that matters to people like yall. all that matters is things are eqaul

and I have a iguana loose on my lanai

excuse me

stormwatch89 wrote:Ah, SO we do remain stubborn! When I make it to the Caymens, join me for a cup of tea?

Dreams, you remind me of a class I had in college. The prof went on and on about how the poor couldn't use a bar of soap because they hadn't been taught how to use same.

Come on?!

Rogue wrote:

stormwatch89 wrote:Ah, SO we do remain stubborn! When I make it to the Caymens, join me for a cup of tea?

Dreams, you remind me of a class I had in college. The prof went on and on about how the poor couldn't use a bar of soap because they hadn't been taught how to use same.

Come on?!

yes Storm, according to her, the poor are stupid and cant do anything. They need the gov to wipe thier asses. all the while foriegn people come here and whoop ass by working hard.. a concept they will never get.

Rogue wrote:

2seaoat wrote:You will get every dime of your social security and medicare will be alive and well when your retire. The only thing wrong with America is that you have been brainwashed that somehow letting that farmer's family pocket 40k a year subsidy, and then avoid even long term capital gains tax or estate tax when they die and hand to their kids almost a 400k a year income without paying one dime of taxes which were historically paid. The only way the deficit will be balanced is on your back. This is not socialism, this is common sense paying our bills and balancing the budget. Parts of Romney's tax plan are actually very good. However, it is idiotic to think you can make taxes revenue neutral dropping the ATM, capital gains, the estate tax, and then putting whipped cream on this BS....cut across the board another 20%.

We do not need some kind of revolution. We do not need the far left or the far right to dictate to us about how we have to care about the 6% deadbeats, or the 1% wealthy......I am concerned with the other 93% of Americans and how to increase the median income of the same. You continue to vote against your interest, but at some point when we are allowing five million dollar farms to pass tax free guaranteeing close to 400k to descendants.....tell me what you are going to leave your children. Will they have schools with no tax revenue. Will they have a defense department. Will they have roads and bridges. No, a million dollar exemption is plenty in 2012 dollars and there are solid estate planning techniques to transfer wealth to your children without robbing America.

Stormy's argument that the Estate tax is a tax on top of a tax.....so what....16 trillion dollars in debt and nobody is taking their wealth to the grave, and this country is about the living. As a life long Republican I find this irresponsible platform to be against everything I have believed for forty years. You cannot make this country work without raising capital gains back to 20%, rolling back the Bush tax cuts on anybody making over 200k, bring the estate tax exemption back down to a million, and go with Romney's cap on deductions. We need common sense. We need economic patriotism. I am tired of hearing about the 6% deadbeats why you vote against your economic interests.....focus.

I dont vote against my interest. I am sick and tired of hearing that I do. Usually it is dreams that says that because I am a lesbian. because people like that only group people into little groups of voter blocks. I find that VERY shallow.

I vote on what prospers America as a WHOLE. Because when America is properous my chances of gaining the things i work for are more. and My family gains from that.

You hate romney and I understand that. He isnt much better than obama. I understand that.

but all the while you bust romneys ass becuase of his policy, you dont once mention hardly ever the back breaking policy that this corrupt dictating president has had on this country and I RESENT that from you. I resent it terribly and will not EVER let you off the hook because you prospered for YOURSELF years on the concept I have put out. And I find you in hypocrissy to tell me, a person who suffers daily out here that this concept is no longer viable because now you all of a sudden have a emotional breakthough.

YOU Seaoat, are all the more willing to sell me out in my hopes and dreams that I have worked for to settle your own self realization of what you think is greed.

YOU have forgotten that its really hard work that makes people prosper and in your guilt that of seeing that not all people have the same results from the opertunities given in this great country, you sell us out. and expect we are to do more.

Not right! I have given to charity my entire life. much less now but i still do it with all my burdens. dont preach to me about suffering people. I know it all to well and I know what doing the right thing is. I do it every day. I live in my cave of desperation working, trying to help those around me.

But By god you will never tell me that the GOV is the asnwer.

Dreamsglore wrote:

Rogue wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Yes it is......and what exactly is the tax on a dividend? The money a corporation gives out as dividends is after tax dollars......and kabooom! it gets taxed again......your measurement of what gets taxed has nothing to do with what the alternative will become. When wealthy people have so little economic patriotism to this nation or its citizens.....they do not want to pay taxes at all......then leave this country. Go to the Caymans or Bermuda and live a life of wealth and ease, but our tax code represents a set of priorities. When a fireman and his family, or an insurance broker and his family is making 75k a year.....how many folks are going to leave them an estate over 4 or 5 million......how many of those same folks have the extra cash to invest in stocks and receive dividends with after tax dollars.....not too many.

However, Mitt Romney gets up and says that he will balance the budget by creating his cafeteria plan with a cap on deductions.....nope....will not close the 10 trillion dollar gap....not the 7 trillion dollar Obama was talking about, because they were just talking about the 20% cut.....nope this country has worked just fine when the capital gains were 28%, and people actually rather than paying dividends would grow the company and create jobs. The tax code is the ethics code of a nation......and those who think because dividends and the estate tax are a so called double taxation.....sorry....this nation boomed when it was almost double the capital gains, and the exemption was 50 times smaller than today. It will boom again when the selfish people who have betrayed this nation are held accountable. We will have balanced budgets, and we will have real GDP growth....and real fiscal republicans will not longer listen to this crap that taxes should be zero and American citizens are takers.....the only takers in the last 30 years have been the very poor and the very wealthy.....and both are fair game for reform.
Welcome back Stormy......we just pick up where we left off.

I sincerely do not think you can atribute the capital gains tax to having anything to do with the country booming during that time. Its a relativly little amount of collections in the whole scheme of things. I read on one of the links I gave you recently that said there are only 3600 people with more than 5 million dollars in the country.

seems to me that the best way for economic growth is to have the majority of people working, paying taxes at a lower rate, not have all this inflation to where the working people end up spending all there money just to put food on the table but some left over to buy cars, boats and other items that boost bussinesses. Not people on food stamps which is a drain on the system.

Right now we have a terrible inbalance of takers and producers and the left likes it that way because those are thier "majority base".

The most important thing for this country right now is to get people back to work and off the gov teet. And IMHO its not more regulation which stagnates buss growth or more taxes which stagnates buss growth. You know this too well. You know very well that you wouldnt hire another person if you had to write a big fat check at the end of the year to the gov, or quarterly which ever it is that you do.

bussinesses have been scared from day one of obama, with reason too. obama is anti-bussiness. They know it and we are all suffering from it.

You can not legislate economic patriotism.

You cant take from producers and give it to takers.

You cant pick winners and losers at the gov level

You can instill class warfare as we have now.

economic patriotism is in fact fairness for all, even those who have made better for themsleves from the same oppertunities that have been provided to every single individual in this country. The chance to do well. And punishing those who do well will produce a society that looses its drive to do well, the ending result a country full of takers, with a few extremly rich at the top dooling out the crumbs to the peasant masses. And the odds are those doing the dooling and having the most wealth will be in our Gov. And dont tell me this senario cant happen. It has.

This is the horseshit that the republicans are doling out.The very poor don't have the opportunities to do well because they don't have the resources to take advantage of them.You take someone in SRC who needs a job but they can't get to that job because they don't have a car.They can't get a car because they don't have a job. I see this everyday.We have a program in our company that gets taxes exempted for hiring a welfare person but do other companies hire that person for the tax deduction.No!They don't want them so they hire college grads for low paying jobs because they can.The chances for poor to succeed are slim but then we complain about the 47% who don't pay taxes. You take 20% out of a minimum wage persons pay and you leave them barely surviving.The cost of childcare alone eats up what they make.People are clueless to the plight of the poor.

Dreamsglore wrote:

Rogue wrote:

2seaoat wrote:You will get every dime of your social security and medicare will be alive and well when your retire. The only thing wrong with America is that you have been brainwashed that somehow letting that farmer's family pocket 40k a year subsidy, and then avoid even long term capital gains tax or estate tax when they die and hand to their kids almost a 400k a year income without paying one dime of taxes which were historically paid. The only way the deficit will be balanced is on your back. This is not socialism, this is common sense paying our bills and balancing the budget. Parts of Romney's tax plan are actually very good. However, it is idiotic to think you can make taxes revenue neutral dropping the ATM, capital gains, the estate tax, and then putting whipped cream on this BS....cut across the board another 20%.

We do not need some kind of revolution. We do not need the far left or the far right to dictate to us about how we have to care about the 6% deadbeats, or the 1% wealthy......I am concerned with the other 93% of Americans and how to increase the median income of the same. You continue to vote against your interest, but at some point when we are allowing five million dollar farms to pass tax free guaranteeing close to 400k to descendants.....tell me what you are going to leave your children. Will they have schools with no tax revenue. Will they have a defense department. Will they have roads and bridges. No, a million dollar exemption is plenty in 2012 dollars and there are solid estate planning techniques to transfer wealth to your children without robbing America.

Stormy's argument that the Estate tax is a tax on top of a tax.....so what....16 trillion dollars in debt and nobody is taking their wealth to the grave, and this country is about the living. As a life long Republican I find this irresponsible platform to be against everything I have believed for forty years. You cannot make this country work without raising capital gains back to 20%, rolling back the Bush tax cuts on anybody making over 200k, bring the estate tax exemption back down to a million, and go with Romney's cap on deductions. We need common sense. We need economic patriotism. I am tired of hearing about the 6% deadbeats why you vote against your economic interests.....focus.

I dont vote against my interest. I am sick and tired of hearing that I do. Usually it is dreams that says that because I am a lesbian. because people like that only group people into little groups of voter blocks. I find that VERY shallow.

I vote on what prospers America as a WHOLE. Because when America is properous my chances of gaining the things i work for are more. and My family gains from that.

You hate romney and I understand that. He isnt much better than obama. I understand that.

but all the while you bust romneys ass becuase of his policy, you dont once mention hardly ever the back breaking policy that this corrupt dictating president has had on this country and I RESENT that from you. I resent it terribly and will not EVER let you off the hook because you prospered for YOURSELF years on the concept I have put out. And I find you in hypocrissy to tell me, a person who suffers daily out here that this concept is no longer viable because now you all of a sudden have a emotional breakthough.

YOU Seaoat, are all the more willing to sell me out in my hopes and dreams that I have worked for to settle your own self realization of what you think is greed.

YOU have forgotten that its really hard work that makes people prosper and in your guilt that of seeing that not all people have the same results from the opertunities given in this great country, you sell us out. and expect we are to do more.

Not right! I have given to charity my entire life. much less now but i still do it with all my burdens. dont preach to me about suffering people. I know it all to well and I know what doing the right thing is. I do it every day. I live in my cave of desperation working, trying to help those around me.

But By god you will never tell me that the GOV is the asnwer.

What is this corrupt policy you talk about? You sit there an rail about hard work and opportunities? Why aren't you rich? You say you work hard.Where is your wealth? The truth is you didn't inherit any wealth and few people achieve wealth on their own even if they work their ass of.