Pensacola Discussion Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

This is a forum based out of Pensacola Florida.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Press Secretary Sean Spicer Falsely Accuses Iran of Attacking US Navy Vessel, an Act of War

+3
2seaoat
RealLindaL
Floridatexan
7 posters

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

"White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer asserted at Thursday’s press briefing that Iran had attacked a U.S. naval vessel, as part of his argument defending the administration’s bellicose announcement that Iran is “on notice.”

National Security Adviser Michael Flynn on Wednesday said he was  “officially putting Iran on notice” following the country’s ballistic missile test and an attack on a Saudi naval vessel by Houthi rebels in Yemen (the Houthis are tenuously aligned with Iran’s government but are distinct from it).

The White House press corps wanted to know what being put “on notice” entailed, and Spicer responded by claiming that Iran’s government took actions against a U.S. naval vessel, which would be an act of war. “I think General Flynn was really clear yesterday that Iran has violated the Joint Resolution, that Iran’s additional hostile actions that it took against our Navy vessel are ones that we are very clear are not going to sit by and take,” he said. “I think that we will have further updates for you on those additional actions.”

Major Garrett of CBS News quietly corrected him, saying “a Saudi vessel,” and Spicer then responded almost inaudibly: “Sorry, thank you, yes a Saudi vessel. Yes, that’s right.” He did not in any way address his false claim that it was an Iranian attack, however.

Watch Spicer’s remarks:..."

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/41740-press-secretary-sean-spicer-falsely-accuses-iran-of-attacking-us-navy-vessel-an-act-of-war

RealLindaL



Good holy grief -- a bunch of utterly incompetent warmongers in the White House. We are in deep doo-doo.

2seaoat



How does one convert former honest men and women into compulsive liars and propagandist? Is it fooling them, or do they consciously know that they are lying through their teeth?

knothead

knothead

2seaoat wrote:How does one convert former honest men and women into compulsive liars and propagandist?   Is it fooling them, or do they consciously know that they are lying through their teeth?

THAT is a great question! My wife and I attended a graveside service today for a cousin on her side and following the service everyone went back to the local volunteer Fire Dept. (which seemed totally weird). The folks there are salt of the earth types for the most part, i.e., hard working farmers and very religious . . . . . I sat down at a table with my plate and was joined by a distant cousin (wife's) who does volunteer work in Haiti who immediately asked "What yall think about what's going on in the country"? Heck I suspected she was a Trumpette but I simply said that was not a good subject for discussion given the circumstance but I have no doubt in my heart they are predominantly pro Trump without really being aware of most of the stuff we discuss here at length. My reply however left little doubt about my own political views. This left me wondering what chance does America have when these evangelicals support a person who is the antithesis of being evangelical without taking into consideration the multitude of indiscretions? I just don't get it . . . . .

RealLindaL



2seaoat wrote:How does one convert former honest men and women into compulsive liars and propagandist?   Is it fooling them, or do they consciously know that they are lying through their teeth?

You're presupposing prior honesty. I don't know that such existed. It seems to be a rare commodity in this society nowadays --think about it. As for Trump himself, there's little question in my mind he's been a liar his whole adult life, if not before.

RealLindaL



knothead wrote:I have no doubt in my heart they are predominantly pro Trump without really being aware of most of the stuff we discuss here at length. This left me wondering what chance does America have when these evangelicals support a person who is the antithesis of being evangelical without taking into consideration the multitude of indiscretions?  I just don't get it . . . . .    

You and I and millions of others don't get it, knot.  It's a truly mysterious dichotomy of thought.   Virtually unfathomable, it seems.      Question

Guest


Guest

knothead wrote: I simply said that was not a good subject for discussion given the circumstance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2bxix3vFYM

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

knothead wrote:
2seaoat wrote:How does one convert former honest men and women into compulsive liars and propagandist?   Is it fooling them, or do they consciously know that they are lying through their teeth?

THAT is a great question! My wife and I attended a graveside service today for a cousin on her side and following the service everyone went back to the local volunteer Fire Dept. (which seemed totally weird).  The folks there are salt of the earth types for the most part, i.e., hard working farmers and very religious . . . . . I sat down at a table with my plate and was joined by a distant cousin (wife's) who does volunteer work in Haiti who immediately asked "What yall think about what's going on in the country"? Heck I suspected  she was a Trumpette but I simply said that was not a good subject for discussion given the circumstance but I have no doubt in my heart they are predominantly pro Trump without really being aware of most of the stuff we discuss here at length. My reply however left little doubt about my own political views. This left me wondering what chance does America have when these evangelicals support a person who is the antithesis of being evangelical without taking into consideration the multitude of indiscretions?  I just don't get it . . . . .    

This is exactly one of the questions I was hoping could be discussed by forum members. Since it is not a topic that can be discussed casually in social settings without generating more heat than light I would appreciate it if someone with a first hand knowledge of your question could enlighten us all, seriously.

It has to be more than one thing, more like a constellation of outlooks including the abortion issue and sometimes the 2nd amendment. Family values is usually on the list but that gets thrown out this time around. Naivety re the workings of government? The tendency of the evangelicals to believe without a lot of discernment? I just don't get it either for that group.

This time around though that group is not a huge slice of his supporters. More came from the Joe six-pack crowd? Anti-union, state's rights (white supremacists)?

Unfortunately his supporters also include a lot of people who are just not well informed about how government works or history, American or world history. There's that.

dumpcare



How does one convert former honest men and women into compulsive liars and propagandist?   Is it fooling them, or do they consciously know that they are lying through their teeth?

Well Seaoat in my lifetime I've seen many, I have known certain families with this trait. I believe it is taught and handed down from generation to generation. There are exception's that will go against the particular family grain.

Sal

Sal

This was written by a conservative radio host ...

Mr. Trump understands that attacking the media is the reddest of meat for his base, which has been conditioned to reject reporting from news sites outside of the conservative media ecosystem.

For years, as a conservative radio talk show host, I played a role in that conditioning by hammering the mainstream media for its bias and double standards. But the price turned out to be far higher than I imagined. The cumulative effect of the attacks was to delegitimize those outlets and essentially destroy much of the right’s immunity to false information. We thought we were creating a savvier, more skeptical audience. Instead, we opened the door for President Trump, who found an audience that could be easily misled.

The news media’s spectacular failure to get the election right has made it only easier for many conservatives to ignore anything that happens outside the right’s bubble and for the Trump White House to fabricate facts with little fear of alienating its base.

Unfortunately, that also means that the more the fact-based media tries to debunk the president’s falsehoods, the further it will entrench the battle lines.

During his first week in office, Mr. Trump reiterated the unfounded charge that millions of people had voted illegally. When challenged on the evident falsehood, Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary, seemed to argue that Mr. Trump’s belief that something was true qualified as evidence. The press secretary also declined to answer a straightforward question about the unemployment rate, suggesting that the number will henceforth be whatever the Trump administration wants it to be.

He can do this because members of the Trump administration feel confident that the alternative-reality media will provide air cover, even if they are caught fabricating facts or twisting words (like claiming that the “ban” on Muslim immigrants wasn’t really a “ban”). Indeed, they believe they have shifted the paradigm of media coverage, replacing the traditional media with their own.

In a stunning demonstration of the power and resiliency of our new post-factual political culture, Mr. Trump and his allies in the right media have already turned the term “fake news” against its critics, essentially draining it of any meaning. During the campaign, actual “fake news” — deliberate hoaxes — polluted political discourse and clogged social media timelines.

Some outlets opened the door, by helping spread conspiracy theories and indulging the paranoia of the fever swamps. For years, the widely read Drudge Report has linked to the bizarre conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, who believes that both the attacks of Sept. 11 and the Sandy Hook shootings were government-inspired “false flag” operations.

For conservatives, this should have made it clear that something was badly amiss in their media ecosystem. But now any news deemed to be biased, annoying or negative can be labeled “fake news.” Erroneous reports that the bust of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. had been removed from the Oval Office or misleading reports that sanctions against Russia had been lifted will be seized on by Mr. Trump’s White House to reinforce his indictment.

Even as he continues to attack the “dishonest media,” Mr. Trump and his allies are empowering this alt-reality media, providing White House access to Breitbart and other post-factual outlets that are already morphing into fierce defenders of the administration.

The relationship appears to be symbiotic, as Mr. Trump often seems to pick up on talking points from Fox News and has tweeted out links from websites notorious for their casual relationship to the truth, including sites like Gateway Pundit, a hoax-peddling site that announced, shortly after the inauguration, that it would have a White House correspondent.

By now, it ought to be evident that enemies are important to this administration, whether they are foreigners, refugees, international bankers or the press.

But discrediting independent sources of information also has two major advantages for Mr. Trump: It helps insulate him from criticism and it allows him to create his own narratives, metrics and “alternative facts.”

All administrations lie, but what we are seeing here is an attack on credibility itself.

The Russian dissident and chess grandmaster Garry Kasparov drew upon long familiarity with that process when he tweeted: “The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.”

Mr. Kasparov grasps that the real threat is not merely that a large number of Americans have become accustomed to rejecting factual information, or even that they have become habituated to believing hoaxes. The real danger is that, inundated with “alternative facts,” many voters will simply shrug, asking, “What is truth?” — and not wait for an answer.

In that world, the leader becomes the only reliable source of truth; a familiar phenomenon in an authoritarian state, but a radical departure from the norms of a democratic society. The battle over truth is now central to our politics.

This may explain one of the more revealing moments from after the election, when one of Mr. Trump’s campaign surrogates, Scottie Nell Hughes, was asked to defend the clearly false statement by Mr. Trump that millions of votes had been cast illegally. She answered by explaining that everybody now had their own way of interpreting whether a fact was true or not.

“There’s no such thing, unfortunately, anymore as facts,” she declared. Among “a large part of the population” what Mr. Trump said was the truth.

“When he says that millions of people illegally voted,” she said, his supporters believe him — and “people believe they have facts to back that up.”

Or as George Orwell said: “The very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. Lies will pass into history.” But Ms. Hughes’s comment was perhaps unintentionally insightful. Mr. Trump and company seem to be betting that much of the electorate will not care if the president tells demonstrable lies, and will pick and choose whatever “alternative facts” confirm their views.

The next few years will be a test of that thesis.

In the meantime, we must recognize the magnitude of the challenge. If we want to restore respect for facts and break through the intellectual ghettos on both the right and left, the mainstream media will have to be aggressive without being hysterical and adversarial without being unduly oppositional.

Perhaps just as important, it will be incumbent on conservative media outlets to push back as well. Conservatism should be a reality-based philosophy, and the movement will be better off if it recognizes that facts really do matter. There may be short-term advantages to running headlines about millions of illegal immigrants voting or secret United Nations plots to steal your guns, but the longer the right enables such fabrications, the weaker it will be in the long run. As uncomfortable as it may be, it will fall to the conservative media to police its worst actors.

The conservative media ecosystem — like the rest of us — has to recognize how critical, but also how fragile, credibility is in the Orwellian age of Donald Trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/04/opinion/sunday/why-nobody-cares-the-president-is-lying.html?_r=1

RealLindaL



Excellent piece by Sykes.  I'll look forward to his book.


Charles J. Sykes (@SykesCharlie), a former talk-show host in Wisconsin, is the author of the forthcoming “How the Right Lost Its Mind.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/04/opinion/sunday/why-nobody-cares-the-president-is-lying.html

Sal

Sal

Another must read for understanding what's happening in America ...

Press Secretary Sean Spicer Falsely Accuses Iran of Attacking US Navy Vessel, an Act of War Captur49

https://www.amazon.com/Idiot-America-Stupidity-Became-Virtue/dp/0767926153

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum