A sincere request for an opinion about one of the positions Trump is taking

It's his contention that, unless the other NATO countries start ponying up their fair share of the cost of NATO defense, then the U.S. should reassess it's role in NATO.

Every status quo politician and media figure has ridiculed this as naivete.
But I'm not so sure Trump isn't right about this.

What say you?

The years following the establishment of NATO were America's golden years.
The country was flush with money. It could afford to let these other nations ride on it's back.
That was then and this is now. And now America is no longer flush with money, it's 20 trillion dollars in debt. You don't keep spending like a drunk sailor when you're 20 trillion dollars in debt.

To some extent I agree, but what are the long term consequences? If he alienates NATO country's do you think they would ever come to a defense again?  If he completely withdraws from NATO we become an island to the rest of the world and bang were done when Russia or China come to visit. We put tons of money into their country's economy by having our military interest's located in most of them.

Every pact and agreement should be reevaluated. Every foreign base closed. All aid ended and considered case by case publicly . MiC contracts nulled and made public. Cut active military by half immediately... increase tech research, training and skilled reserve.

No standing army.

ppaca wrote: We put tons of money into their country's economy by having our military interest's located in most of them.

In one sense,  these NATO nations are exactly in the same situation as the Florida panhandle.  
The seven military installations here are the driving force for the local economy.

If you're a Star Trek fan,  the analogy would be to the American federal government becoming like The Borg.  It supplies the juice for all these other Borgs out there.  Some right here in the solar system (Florida panhandle),  and some in the far off reaches of the galaxy (NATO nations).

Fuck,  all this talk about "globalism" being new is crap.  NATO was globalism the year it was founded.  Which coincidentally is the year I was born.

Rome tried to remain an empire after it's decline. Didn't work out too well.

You're right, if all the military bases closed in the panhandle this area would go right down the tubes fast and for many years. You cannot sustain this area on the service industry and attorney's.

The public is naive. Contributions to Nato and manpower have been a constant discussion for thirty years by a number of administrations. Discussions of reducing the number of military bases in Europe, Japan, and Korea has been in discussion for that same period, including but not limited to greater contributions. Nothing Trump has suggested has not and is not being discussed.

I have, like PK advocated Korea and European bases be closed. However, this should be done with reductions which are long term, and coordinated with greater capabilities of host nations and assessment of risk. We must reduce our military by 25% with new strategies of response. Keenan's zones of influence must be recalculated and a strategic plan of continuity must be developed in a bipartisan way. Trump has not suggested anything which is new, he has just has no idea of the complexities and the role of treaties......his fascist dictatorship understanding of how government works is interesting......because whole regions of this nation want the same......he plays to that crowd while our allies shake their collective heads.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/30/trumps-claim-that-the-u-s-pays-the-lions-share-for-nato/

As for the military portion of our NATO contribution, who's to say how much is NATO and how much is our "reach".

Floridatexan wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/30/trumps-claim-that-the-u-s-pays-the-lions-share-for-nato/

As for the military portion of our NATO contribution, who's to say how much is NATO and how much is our "reach".

Did you read this paragraph in your article...

...Trump is talking about indirect spending on NATO, which exceeds direct funding, he begins to have a point. U.S. officials have long complained that other NATO members are not pulling their weight in the alliance; President Obama recently asserted to Atlantic Monthly’s Jeffrey Goldberg that some European allies are “free riders,” a term that Trump echoed in his CNN interview.

The issue is old. The fact that Trump is trying to piggyback on the discussion and have folks who do not read and are not aware think this is an original discussion or something new.......precious.

Our military and leaders have been working on this since the days of Alex Haig.

Of course not. She's not interested in objective analysis. That would go against her conditioning. Trump is the devil... and that's that.

She's not interested in objective analysis.

She is by far the most qualified person to run for the Presidency since John Adams. She has the breadth of experience which make her objective analysis far superior to any other Presidential candidate in the entire field this last election primary cycle. It must really hurt having such a qualified woman doing so well, because we both know part of your disdain for Hillary is because she is a strong women. I get off on on strong women. The smarter and more physical fit and mentally tough.....they own my heart. Some small men just never figured that out. You are not a small man. What has conditioned you to think like one?

I'll tell you... I'm certainly not what you are trying to assign me to protect your political argument. Nobody  (I hope) is falling for that shit anymore.  Finally... hillary isn't close to being the most qualified.  Why don't you do something to prove your disconnected group think... list her successes for us.  Something she created in Congress? An important vote that she influenced? How about as sos? Something in the middle east perhaps? Russia? China? N.Korea?

I'll wait.  Btw... a pile of word vomit doesn't count.  It never has... it's just more distraction like your race and sex card and demeaning other's intelligence.  Tactics that no intelligent person would use if their positions were sound.  Get a clue comrade.

You should have watched the convention and learned......to even suggest you do not know about her work for uninsured children really is a priceless tag which will be around your neck, but not understanding her push for severe economic sanctions on Iran, which were the primary prelude to the Iranian deal is just willful ignorance. Sorry your puppet world is void of reality, and when you do not even recognize her work as a senator to insure first responders got health care........that tag around your neck simply becomes a dunce hat which reads.....I do not like women. I get Markle, Bob, and Vector man going for Trump against a woman, I do not get your angle......because you fully know she is the most qualified.....why do you persist with the fiction.....the comic book portrayal of Hillary.

Of course, there must be a re-evaluation of NATO.

Holding all members accountable for their share of monetary, personnel and material contributions.

Hillary Clinton is not capable of accomplishing such a monumental task...unless the nations are willing to make huge contributions to the, now under FBI investigation, Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Slush Fund.

Donald Trump, on the other hand, can, will successfully make changes. He comes to the table with a blank slate, a completely new person on stage. What they do know is he has made huge accomplishments and is a master at negotiations.

Mr. Trump will NOT do as Lame Duck President Barack Hussein Obama does and broadcast his intentions, what he will and especially important, what he will NOT do.

Mr. Trump could well be a more verbose, outspoken president in the mold of Ronald Reagan.

I'd be happy if a congressman or the potus knew the difference between a good deal and a bad one. Hillary pretty much proved her prowess by first claiming that the tpp was the "gold standard"... and now conveniently is against it (see union vote). I wonder what life would be like having no principles or ethics? I wouldn't trust that person to run a cash register... and you fools want to trust her with the most powerful position on earth. Good thinking there nimrods. Y'all are certainly no smarter than a Trump supporter... only someone too stupid to see the irony would think so.

The "work" done by Hillary Clinton for uninsured children is most amusing. Aside from it happening decades ago.

Another poster, on a different thread, used that pathetic example of her accomplishments when I questioned challenged them to list only five of her accomplishments used this as one.

Amusingly, another was she had traveled more miles than any other Secretary of State in history. So now, frequent flyer miles count at an accomplishment. I guess when you have so little to work with, you have to grasp at whatever....

Strange is the fact that even in her own speech, as well as Bill's, and Chelsea speeches, no one made any mention, whatsoever, of the "great work" being done by the Bill, Hillary, and Chelsea Foundation in Haiti and around the world.

Could it be that the instant the Clinton's knew their slush fund was being investigated by the FBI as part of the investigation into Hillary Clinton's emails, they filed amended (different) tax returns to the IRS for the past five years? The statute of limitations for IRS auditing tax returns.

Why not tout that amongst her grand "accomplishments"?

Both of you should have watched the Democratic convention to see the list of her accomplishments.....oh yea you did......on Fox News.....the folks who claim to be fair and balanced, but did not show her accomplishments video, and shut it down during Khan's tear jerk speech......today on the Sunday shows the world is learning about Khan and how he was censured by Fox, and both of you may some day realize that Hillary really is the most qualified presidential candidate since Adams.............well I know you both expressed interest in Mr. 999 as being the most qualified ever, but then again you liked his pizza.

Sooooo... nothing?

2seaoat wrote:Both of you should have watched the Democratic convention to see the list of her accomplishments.....oh yea you did......on Fox News.....the folks who claim to be fair and balanced, but did not show her accomplishments video, and shut it down during Khan's tear jerk speech......today on the Sunday shows the world is learning about Khan and how he was censured by Fox, and both of you may some day realize that Hillary really is the most qualified presidential candidate since Adams.............well I know you both expressed interest in Mr. 999 as being the most qualified ever, but then again you liked his pizza.

So tell us, Hillary Clinton's five major accomplishments!

A tear-jerking story does not qualify someone for the oval office.

The Khizr Khan's story was made up of lies, lies everyone knows so I don't see the point. Why didn't his wife speak?

Markle wrote: What they do know is he has made huge accomplishments and is a master at negotiations.

What I know is that what he has accomplished has too often been achieved by riding on the backs of those he eventually cheated big time, hiding behind the veil of bankruptcy law or just plain refusing to pay. The world's greatest stiffer.

As for being a master of negotiations, that's what HE says. I could almost guarantee you haven't read what his ghost writer on "The Art of the Deal" recently revealed -- and that's because you simply don't want to know.

The man is a trumped up phony from the get go.

Markle wrote:Mr. Trump will NOT do as Lame Duck President Barack Hussein Obama does and broadcast his intentions, what he will and especially important, what he will NOT do.

Loud, brash and boastful Trump as a man of discretion who keeps his counsel about anything??!!  That seems quite a stretch, even for you.  But the fact of the matter is that you, sir, don't know SHIT about what Trump will or will not do on the world stage, as he is totally and completely UNTESTED.   You intend to take an unknown race car for a brand new test run on a complex and dangerous track at full throttle, with the fate of the entire country resting on the results. This, to me, is the height of irresponsibility.

So tell us, Hillary Clinton's five major accomplishments!

She got handicapped kids into schools when they were treated like freaks and were excluded.

She started the process of expanded health care for all Americans....she failed, and that failure changed the way First Ladies would be viewed forever after....including first men.

She got over six million kids without insurance insured in a bipartisan effort as first lady, after getting knocked down on the healthcare bill....she got back up and prevailed.

As Senator, she was able to get first responders extended medical coverage despite Republican obstruction, and she NEVER gave up, nor did the obstruction

As SOS she got laughed at for implementing the toughest economic sanctions on Iran, and then two years later they came to the negotiating table and signed an impressive American victory where diplomacy Trumped war.......

these are just five of a hundred things this champion of the people has accomplished on her way to being the most qualified presidential candidate since John Adams......fact not fiction.......lock her up lock her up lock her up.....hell yes you better lock her up because she will raise the minimum wage, lower tuition costs, invest in America instead of the Middle East, and expand Medicare to fifty year olds...........no wonder you did not watch the convention.....your ignorance is your bliss.

No response.....no reason to recognize Hillary's real accomplishments....it is more fun playing in your fantasy world of pretend

2seaoat wrote:So tell us, Hillary Clinton's five major accomplishments!

She got handicapped kids into schools when they were treated like freaks and were excluded.

She started the process of expanded health care for all Americans....she failed, and that failure changed the way First Ladies would be viewed forever after....including first men.

She got over six million kids without insurance insured in a bipartisan effort as first lady, after getting knocked down on the healthcare bill....she got back up and prevailed.

As Senator, she was able to get first responders extended medical coverage despite Republican obstruction, and she NEVER gave up, nor did the obstruction

As SOS she got laughed at for implementing the toughest economic sanctions on Iran, and then two years later they came to the negotiating table and signed an impressive American victory where diplomacy Trumped war.......

these are just five of a hundred things this champion of the people has accomplished on her way to being the most qualified presidential candidate since John Adams......fact not fiction.......lock her up lock her up lock her up.....hell yes you better lock her up because she will raise the minimum wage, lower tuition costs, invest in America instead of the Middle East, and expand Medicare to fifty year olds...........no wonder you did not watch the convention.....your ignorance is your bliss.