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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Orlando Massacre ...

Orlando Massacre ...

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ZVUGKTUBM
Markle
2seaoat
Sal
Wordslinger
9 posters

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1Orlando Massacre ... Empty Orlando Massacre ... 6/12/2016, 10:23 pm

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

We need to recognize we are at war with ISIS and other Islamic terrorist organizations. It's time to take a close look at Israel, which has been living with this kind of terrorism for several decades.

The recent shooting in Tel Aviv demonstrates Israel's intelligent and effective strategy. Anywhere you go in Israel where people congregate -- temples, tourism venues, airports, restaurants, shopping centers etc. there are always a few armed soldiers or police nearby.

Once a terrorist starts shooting he or they are immediately attacked. The result is fewer Israeli victims because armed police or soldiers are on hand.

We need to employ the same tactics. Wherever people congregate in large numbers, we need a few armed police or National Guard soldiers on station. Armed response should be within minutes, not hours.

The Orlando situation went on for several hours before the police went in to kill the suspect.

America needs to deal with the reality of terrorist war and learn from the Israelis.

2Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/12/2016, 10:28 pm

Sal

Sal

There were two armed officers at the scene when the shooting started.

They were powerless to stop it.

The issue is access to extremely powerful and efficient human killing machines by deranged individuals.

Until we get a handle on that, the carnage will continue.

The religion of the lunatic is for the most part a distraction.

3Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/12/2016, 10:43 pm

2seaoat



Turn America into more of a police state does not solve the problem. Armed LEO at the nightclub.....failure......two hours response from LEO.....can you say columbine.......no, the answer is 1: cut the defense budget and quit bombing innocents in the Middle East. Ronald Reagan was strong enough to cut and run. It is time to cut and run. 2. We need to invest in more intelligence and software development which allows our various databases to talk to each other. The FBI has this guy in their database, and when the three day background check on his gun purchases cannot get those on the no fly zone, or those on the FBI database, we are failing not because we do not fill the streets with more police, but a failure of intelligence. 3. development of better security protocols at the gate of areas where large numbers congregate. I remember you could enter my childrens grade school from any door, and it took years to correct this, but the success of the Israeli fight against terrorism is first and foremost playing the probabilities. When law enforcement gets across the board funding from Homeland, and politics require that better video and security in NY where large groups meet is axed for a new fire truck in Lincoln NB because of politics.....we are not being smart. People are going to be killed. If we live our lives in a police state, we all lose, and the best hope for this world is crushed in tyranny under the guise of security......

4Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/12/2016, 11:34 pm

Markle

Markle

Salinsky wrote:There were two armed officers at the scene when the shooting started.

They were powerless to stop it.

The issue is access to extremely powerful and efficient human killing machines by deranged individuals.

Until we get a handle on that, the carnage will continue.

The religion of the lunatic is for the most part a distraction.

Apparently there was one, on duty armed officer at the scene. doubtful he'd have been wearing body armor for such an assignment.

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/terrorist-was-organized-and-well-prepared-during-deadly-nightclub-mass-shooting-official-says/338196567

5Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/12/2016, 11:35 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Wordslinger wrote:America needs to...learn from the Israelis.

The last thing I want to see is for America to turn into a police state like Israel (one of the last apartheid states to exist on Planet Earth).

Israel would have a lot less terror if it softened a bit toward the Arabs around her. The hard-line Israeli government thrives on the terror committed against its people. How else can it justify staying in power if there were even a tiny possibility for there to be peace in its midst?

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

6Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 6:19 am

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:

The religion of the lunatic is for the most part a distraction.

Is it?

http://www.atheistrepublic.com/blog/abbassyed/homophobic-islam

7Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 6:19 am

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Salinsky wrote:There were two armed officers at the scene when the shooting started.

They were powerless to stop it.

The issue is access to extremely powerful and efficient human killing machines by deranged individuals.

Until we get a handle on that, the carnage will continue.

The religion of the lunatic is for the most part a distraction.

As I understand it, the initial off-duty cop who engaged Mateen outside the club was outgunned and his action resulted in Mateen entering the club and beginning his killing spree. The cop was afraid to go after him, and who can blame him?

Roaming Israeli security forces are armed with automatic weapons as well as body armor.

8Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 6:26 am

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:America needs to...learn from the Israelis.

The last thing I want to see is for America to turn into a police state like Israel (one of the last apartheid states to exist on Planet Earth).

Israel would have a lot less terror if it softened a bit toward the Arabs around her. The hard-line Israeli government thrives on the terror committed against its people. How else can it justify staying in power if there were even a tiny possibility for there to be peace in its midst?

That's wrong. The Arabs who oppose Israel have been bombing and killing innocent Israelis for three decades. Remember the PLO? Hamas?
It's clear our intel services -- including the FBI who interviewed Mateen twice, are incapable of providing 100% security.

We already have heavily armed police roaming big airports. What I'm suggesting is to enlarge that tactic to include all major venues where masses of citizens are expected to congregate.

If you don't want a police state, then accept the role of victim. Nuts like Mateen -- thanks to the NRA -- can easily acquire assault rifles and body armor.

Mateen was inspired by ISIS. Why aren't we attacking ISIS with our own troops on the turf they control?

9Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 6:29 am

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:

Israel would have a lot less terror if it softened a bit toward the Arabs around her.

I agree with you that when a foreign invader is occupying someone's homeland,  it motivates that person to want to get revenge on the foreign invader.  And that's why our government should get it's sorry ass out of the middle east.

But there are two things wrong with applying that explanation to this particular monster.

One,  this character was an American,  born and bred in America.

And two,  the homosexuals in that night club were as meek and "soft" as it gets.  They posed the least threat in the world to this monster and anyone else in the muslim world.  And yet they were the ones made to die and Dick Cheney and every other person responsible for the occupations of the middle east are left untouched.



Last edited by Bob on 6/13/2016, 6:40 am; edited 1 time in total

10Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 6:36 am

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
Salinsky wrote:

The religion of the lunatic is for the most part a distraction.

Is it?

http://www.atheistrepublic.com/blog/abbassyed/homophobic-islam

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/diplomat-qatar-frees-dutch-woman-held-rape-report-39810603

11Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 6:42 am

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

PkrBum wrote:
Bob wrote:
Salinsky wrote:

The religion of the lunatic is for the most part a distraction.

Is it?

http://www.atheistrepublic.com/blog/abbassyed/homophobic-islam

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/diplomat-qatar-frees-dutch-woman-held-rape-report-39810603

This is what happens when ancient mindless religions are controlling the minds of those living in the modern world.

12Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 6:58 am

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The moron who did this could have put a million Vote for Trump yard signs in people's yards all across America,  and it would not have helped Trump as much as this mass shooting did.  
So all this moron accomplished was to give a big boost to the guy who wants to ban all muslims from coming to America.

But when we introduce Trump into this,  it gets even more stupefying.
Why?  Because Trump is tweeting to say "see I was right,  we need to ban all muslims from coming into America".

I got news for the orange haired orangutan AND for all the other chimpanzees who worship him.  This one didn't come into the country.  He was always here.  He's a fucking American,  you dickweeds.

13Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 8:06 am

Guest


Guest

He was contacted atleast twice by the fbi and then approved by fbi background check to purchase weapons.

He is also accused by his ex-wife of beating her... though it's not clear if that was established by the courts.

It appears that there were indicators... though it will never be possible to contain every threat. Best to be realistic.

14Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 9:15 am

gatorfan



Wordslinger wrote:We need to recognize we are at war with ISIS and other Islamic terrorist organizations.  It's time to take a close look at Israel, which has been living with this kind of terrorism for several decades.


America needs to deal with the reality of terrorist war and learn from the Israelis.  

The last time I was in Israel I asked a resident in Haifa why there were so many people (women and men) carrying automatic weapons. It seems that even when off duty IDF personnel were required to carry their weapons. I actually felt safer there than I did in areas of Washington D.C.

15Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 12:06 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Wordslinger wrote:Why aren't we attacking ISIS with our own troops on the turf they control?

Oh, come now, Wordslinger.... You want to put boots back on the ground in that God-forsaken region? You may as well write Lindsey Graham in for your presidential choice in November. I thought we were trying to extricate from a quagmire over there, not dive back in.....

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

16Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 12:51 pm

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Wordslinger wrote:
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:America needs to...learn from the Israelis.

The last thing I want to see is for America to turn into a police state like Israel (one of the last apartheid states to exist on Planet Earth).

Israel would have a lot less terror if it softened a bit toward the Arabs around her. The hard-line Israeli government thrives on the terror committed against its people. How else can it justify staying in power if there were even a tiny possibility for there to be peace in its midst?

That's wrong.  The Arabs who oppose Israel have been bombing and killing innocent Israelis for three decades.  Remember the PLO?  Hamas?
It's clear our intel services -- including the FBI who interviewed Mateen twice, are incapable of providing 100% security.

We already have heavily armed police roaming big airports.  What I'm suggesting is to enlarge that tactic to include all major venues where masses of citizens are expected to congregate.  

If you don't want a police state, then accept the role of victim.  Nuts like Mateen -- thanks to the NRA -- can easily acquire assault rifles and body armor.

Mateen was inspired by ISIS.  Why aren't we attacking ISIS with our own troops on the turf they control?


I agree. Also, we need to adopt Isreal's protocol for our TSA program. Isreal starts it's profile as soon as a ticket is booked.

17Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 12:59 pm

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Why aren't we attacking ISIS with our own troops on the turf they control?

Oh, come now, Wordslinger.... You want to put boots back on the ground in that God-forsaken region? You may as well write Lindsey Graham in for your presidential choice in November. I thought we were trying to extricate from a quagmire over there, not dive back in.....

We attacked Iraq when in fact, Saddam had done absolutely nothing against United States. We're in Afghanistan not to defend our country, but to nation-build.

The war with ISIS is different -- they're agents or affiliates are actually murdering Americans. They chose to make war on us.

Yes, it's time we went in and wiped out a real enemy!

18Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 1:13 pm

Markle

Markle

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:America needs to...learn from the Israelis.

The last thing I want to see is for America to turn into a police state like Israel (one of the last apartheid states to exist on Planet Earth).

Israel would have a lot less terror if it softened a bit toward the Arabs around her. The hard-line Israeli government thrives on the terror committed against its people. How else can it justify staying in power if there were even a tiny possibility for there to be peace in its midst?

Explain for us how Israel is "one of the last apartheid states to exist on Planet Earth.

19Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 1:21 pm

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Why aren't we attacking ISIS with our own troops on the turf they control?

Oh, come now, Wordslinger.... You want to put boots back on the ground in that God-forsaken region? You may as well write Lindsey Graham in for your presidential choice in November. I thought we were trying to extricate from a quagmire over there, not dive back in.....

We attacked Iraq when in fact, Saddam had done absolutely nothing against United States.  We're in Afghanistan not to defend our country, but to nation-build.

The war with ISIS is different -- they're agents or affiliates are actually murdering Americans.  They chose to make war on us.

Yes, it's time we went in and wiped out a real enemy!

We wouldn't have to do that had Lame Duck President Barack Hussein Obama listened to his military advisers and kept 10-15 thousand troops in Iraq.

President Obama's following failures are well known leading to the strength of ISIS today.

20Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 1:25 pm

Markle

Markle

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Why aren't we attacking ISIS with our own troops on the turf they control?[/color][/b]

Oh, come now, Wordslinger.... You want to put boots back on the ground in that God-forsaken region? You may as well write Lindsey Graham in for your presidential choice in November. I thought we were trying to extricate from a quagmire over there, not dive back in.....

Earth to ZVUGKTUBM, we already have boots back on the ground in Iraq. It is the only reason Iraq has been making progress against ISIS.

21Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 1:33 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Markle wrote:

Earth to ZVUGKTUBM, we already have boots back on the ground in Iraq.  It is the only reason Iraq has been making progress against ISIS.

If Bush's pro-axis of evil (Iran) shia government takes control again,  the sunni ISIS and other jihadists will then take it out on the other target.  Us.

Notice,  markle,  there has never been an Al Qaeda,  ISIS, or any other jihadi attack on the Bahamas?  Why?  Because the Bahamian government has not tried to occupy Iraq,  Afghanistan and Syria.

22Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 1:42 pm

Sal

Sal

A lot of ass-backward thinking in this thread.

The reason the extremists want to kill Americans and other Westerners is because we're always meddling in their lands, propping up corrupt and brutal despots who keep the masses uneducated and impoverished, stealing their resources, and dropping bombs on their heads.

ISIS has been around for a long time, but they really caught fire when Dubya disbanded the Iraqi military.

If we would get the hell out of that region, they'd be so busy killing each other for next millennia that they'd scarcely give us a second thought.

Unfortunately, there's too much money to made.

And no, none of that would change even in St. Bernie the Immaculate were elected President.

23Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 2:13 pm

Guest


Guest

Salinsky wrote:A lot of ass-backward thinking in this thread.

The reason the extremists want to kill Americans and other Westerners is because we're always meddling in their lands, propping up corrupt and brutal despots who keep the masses uneducated and impoverished, stealing their resources, and dropping bombs on their heads.

ISIS has been around for a long time, but they really caught fire when Dubya disbanded the Iraqi military.

If we would get the hell out of that region, they'd be so busy killing each other for next millennia that they'd scarcely give us a second thought.

Unfortunately, there's too much money to made.

And no, none of that would change even in St. Bernie the Immaculate were elected President.

They want to kill us for the same reason they kill other muslims that don't follow their particular beliefs... we are infidels. They plan to eventually establish a caliphate and spread their islamic fascist control over the entire globe. Just ask them.

24Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 2:25 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Salinsky wrote:The reason the extremists want to kill Americans and other Westerners is because we're always meddling in their lands, propping up corrupt and brutal despots who keep the masses uneducated and impoverished, stealing their resources, and dropping bombs on their heads.

ISIS has been around for a long time, but they really caught fire when Dubya disbanded the Iraqi military.

If we would get the hell out of that region, they'd be so busy killing each other for next millennia that they'd scarcely give us a second thought.

You nailed it with that one.....

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

25Orlando Massacre ... Empty Re: Orlando Massacre ... 6/13/2016, 2:38 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

PkrBum wrote:They plan to eventually establish a caliphate and spread their islamic fascist control over the entire globe. Just ask them.

Fearmonger much? Wishing to do something and being able to actually carry it out are two different things.

Is there an ISIS invasion fleet waiting to come ashore like in a D-Day movie? How about we get a grip and realize that no "Caliphate", if one actually arises, is ever going to build a naval fleet that rivals the U.S. Navy with which to threaten the United States. We are a nuclear power and hold the means to make any world enemy pause in their evil intents (that is why it is called "deterrence").  

ISIS needs to be kept in perspective. We should arm the ISIS enemies, keep both sides fighting against each other in order to exhaust themselves, then make a deal with which ever side wins to help them exploit the 145 billion barrels of recoverable crude beneath the desert sands there. For you climate change apologists, we don't need to burn it and add carbon to the atmosphere--burning petroleum is actually wasteful, as there are a myriad of other uses for black gold.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

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