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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » For Sal and Boards: A vote for the lesser of two evils is morally corrupt!

For Sal and Boards: A vote for the lesser of two evils is morally corrupt!

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knothead
Sal
ZVUGKTUBM
dumpcare
Hospital Bob
Wordslinger
10 posters

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Wordslinger

Wordslinger

The following article says exactly what I feel:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44651.htm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Wordslinger wrote:The following article says exactly what I feel:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44651.htm

I was listening to conservative talk radio today and learned that a faction of right-wing evangelical preachers have banded together to give the message that their followers should not vote in the election as well.
So this is not coming from just one side.

dumpcare



This says it all:

http://theweek.com/speedreads/623969/anonymous-congressman-just-published-shocking-book-confirming-worst-fears-about-congress

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Wordslinger wrote:The following article says exactly what I feel:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44651.htm

Very interesting article.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

ppaca wrote:This says it all:

http://theweek.com/speedreads/623969/anonymous-congressman-just-published-shocking-book-confirming-worst-fears-about-congress

If Amazon publishes a Kindle version, it will be on my reading list, for sure. I only read Kindle books on my PC now (I don't use an actual Kindle). I am always on the hunt for a good Kindle book.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Bob wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:The following article says exactly what I feel:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44651.htm

I was listening to conservative talk radio today and learned that a faction of right-wing evangelical preachers have banded together to give the message that their followers should not vote in the election as well.
So this is not coming from just one side.

My 82 yo MIL is an evangelical, and she told me last week she is writing in my daughter's name for president in November. She is usually true to her cause, and often is a single-issue voter (i.e., votes for whomever is against abortion).

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Sal

Sal

I disagree with the entire premise.

Sanders would do well to direct his movement to focus on races at the local and state levels.

Real, substantive progressive change is possible, but it will take hard and tedious work.

His movement is largely composed of young people, so it is a realistic prospect if he can redirect the focus from himself and prevent harmful disallusionment.

The pendulum has been swinging to the right for decades.

Obama has successfully arrested that direction, and has incrementally moved the nation to the left.

Hillary will advance his agenda.

Trump will destroy it.

The future is bright if we refuse to make perfection the enemy of the good.

Purity candidates are for suckers.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Salinsky wrote:I disagree with the entire premise.

Sanders would do well to direct his movement to focus on races at the local and state levels.

Real, substantive progressive change is possible, but it will take hard and tedious work.

His movement is largely composed of young people, so it is a realistic prospect if he can redirect the focus from himself and prevent harmful disallusionment.

The pendulum has been swinging to the right for decades.

Obama has successfully arrested that direction, and has incrementally moved the nation to the left.

Hillary will advance his agenda.

Trump will destroy it.

The future is bright if we refuse to make perfection the enemy of the good.

Purity candidates are for suckers.  

Sal, do you really deny that Hillary represents the democratic establishment? The truth is, for Trump's and Sander's fans, this coming national election isn't about democrats and republicans anymore. It's change vs. establishment, and change is the winner.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Wordslinger wrote:[ The truth is, for Trump's and Sander's fans, this coming national election isn't about democrats and republicans anymore.  It's change vs. establishment, and change is the winner.

And the stupefying thing about it is,  Sanders has to pretend to be a democrat and Trump has to pretend to be a republican.  That's because so many voters are brainwashed to not vote for anything else.

Guest


Guest

Wordslinger wrote:The truth is, for Trump's and Sander's fans, this coming national election isn't about democrats and republicans anymore.  It's change vs. establishment, and change is the winner.


Wait...we already voted for change and hope with Obama. What are you saying, we didn't get any? It was all fake establishment stuff? Now what are we supposed to believe with this side show of an election? An old guy telling us what to think now?

Screw the peoples mind and force them to the voting booth.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

SheWrites wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:The truth is, for Trump's and Sander's fans, this coming national election isn't about democrats and republicans anymore.  It's change vs. establishment, and change is the winner.


Wait...we already voted for change and hope with Obama.  What are you saying, we didn't get any? It was all fake establishment stuff?  Now what are we supposed to believe with this side show of an election?  An old guy telling us what to think now?  

Screw the peoples mind and force them to the voting booth.


You're right -- we didn't get the change we voted for when we elected Obama. I have no idea what you mean in your statement about "this side show" of an election. It's no sideshow lady, it's the main event. What planet are you living on? If you mean you don't like Trump or Hillary, join the crowd!

You want to listen to young men telling you what to think? Ryan's your guy then ... what a jerk!

You don't come across as a young, insecure virgin, lady. I doubt you ever allow anyone to tell you how to think. So cut the crap. It's the issues sweetheart, not the sex or the age of the politician.

Guest


Guest

Wordslinger wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:The truth is, for Trump's and Sander's fans, this coming national election isn't about democrats and republicans anymore.  It's change vs. establishment, and change is the winner.


Wait...we already voted for change and hope with Obama.  What are you saying, we didn't get any? It was all fake establishment stuff?  Now what are we supposed to believe with this side show of an election?  An old guy telling us what to think now?  

Screw the peoples mind and force them to the voting booth.


You're right -- we didn't get the change we voted for when we elected Obama.  I have no idea what you mean in your statement about "this side show" of an election.  It's no sideshow lady, it's the main event.  What planet are you living on?  If you mean you don't like Trump or Hillary, join the crowd!

You want to listen to young men telling you what to think?  Ryan's your guy then ... what a jerk!

You don't come across as a young, insecure virgin, lady.  I doubt you ever allow anyone to tell you how to think.   So cut the crap.  It's the issues sweetheart, not the sex or the age of the politician.


As I've stated time and time again - circus, sideshow, anything but the real deal.

The main event is behind the curtains of those who back Hillary and Trump. All the same people.

Ryan is not my guy and I agree he is a jerk.

Nope, not insecure at all and no one tells me what to think/do. However, there's plenty of big mouthed men and women out there telling me how my vote counts or does not count. It's a bullying contest and I do not allow the stupidity of bullying overtake my common sense.

My vote...my choice...and it's slim pickens. Still.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I'm about as inclined to vote on this election as I am to vote on American Idol.
In fact, I wish the government would farm out the whole election to whoever produced American Idol and let him conduct it. Wouldn't you really like to see all the candidates rolled out one at a time so Simon Cowell could give his opinion about em.

knothead

knothead

Using the mantra of politicians being morally corrupt is easy to throw around but when we place all the various candidates under intense scrutiny it is not difficult to find substantive criticism over issues, past policies, statements, and alliances . . . . . using these things we the people are charged with the responsibility of deciding who gets the keys to the Oval office.  Now we have seriously flawed candidates to choose from . . . . I actually contributed to Bernie's campaign but am fully aware that if he becomes the nominee the GOP will rain hell down on him just as they are currently on HRC, it's part of the process.  As far as the outcome it makes more practical sense to elect HRC, warts and all, because in my mind she represents stability and competence compared to Trump who represents instability and incompetence.  Do I like Bernie? Yes, absolutely but most of his populist hyperbole is pie in the sky, especially given a House governed by Republicans who have refused to lend any support whatsoever for Obama we can deduce then that nothing will happen with Bernie . . . . if Trump wins we will have the Pubs with all three branches of government and potential selection of up to four appointees to the SCOTUS . . . . I am no longer conflicted . . . . go HRC!

Sal

Sal

knothead wrote:Using the mantra of politicians being morally corrupt is easy to throw around but when we place all the various candidates under intense scrutiny it is not difficult to find substantive criticism over issues, past policies, statements, and alliances . . . . . using these things we the people are charged with the responsibility of deciding who gets the keys to the Oval office.  Now we have seriously flawed candidates to choose from . . . . I actually contributed to Bernie's campaign but am fully aware that if he becomes the nominee the GOP will rain hell down on him just as they are currently on HRC, it's part of the process.  As far as the outcome it makes more practical sense to elect HRC, warts and all, because in my mind she represents stability and competence compared to Trump who represents instability and incompetence.  Do I like Bernie? Yes, absolutely but most of his populist hyperbole is pie in the sky, especially given a House governed by Republicans who have refused to lend any support whatsoever for Obama we can deduce then that nothing will happen with Bernie . . . . if Trump wins we will have the Pubs with all three branches of government and potential selection of up to four appointees to the SCOTUS . . . . I am no longer conflicted . . . . go HRC!

An astute and clear eyed assessment of the situation we currently face.

RealLindaL



Salinsky wrote:
knothead wrote:Using the mantra of politicians being morally corrupt is easy to throw around but when we place all the various candidates under intense scrutiny it is not difficult to find substantive criticism over issues, past policies, statements, and alliances . . . . . using these things we the people are charged with the responsibility of deciding who gets the keys to the Oval office.  Now we have seriously flawed candidates to choose from . . . . I actually contributed to Bernie's campaign but am fully aware that if he becomes the nominee the GOP will rain hell down on him just as they are currently on HRC, it's part of the process.  As far as the outcome it makes more practical sense to elect HRC, warts and all, because in my mind she represents stability and competence compared to Trump who represents instability and incompetence.  Do I like Bernie? Yes, absolutely but most of his populist hyperbole is pie in the sky, especially given a House governed by Republicans who have refused to lend any support whatsoever for Obama we can deduce then that nothing will happen with Bernie . . . . if Trump wins we will have the Pubs with all three branches of government and potential selection of up to four appointees to the SCOTUS . . . . I am no longer conflicted . . . . go HRC!

An astute and clear eyed assessment of the situation we currently face.

I'll second that.

2seaoat



Hillary is not the lesser of two evils. She is the most experienced presidential candidate in 100 years and she is competent. We have seen what incompetency can do in the office of President. Bernie has framed the debate in incredible naive rose colored glasses. As much as he is dead cinch correct on some issues, when he tries to tie his paradigm into a nice neat package there are incredible gaps which he overlooks and just thinks it will magically come together once he is President. I think others have mentioned this, but they are correct. At this point his efforts and revolution would better be spent on congressional races as the real battle for systemic change in American politics will begin and end in Congress.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:She is the most experienced presidential candidate in 100 years

Ridiculous. See: hoover, taft, harrison, lbj, nixon... etc. And arguably: fdr, wilson, lbj, reagan... etc. Infact... she has no direct executive experience... unless you want to consider her debacle as sos: Russia reset, libya, syria, tunisia, egypt... etc.

I will give you this... it's a very popular leftist establishment talkingpoint. But your comrades don't qualify 100 years.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

RealLindaL wrote:
Salinsky wrote:
knothead wrote:Using the mantra of politicians being morally corrupt is easy to throw around but when we place all the various candidates under intense scrutiny it is not difficult to find substantive criticism over issues, past policies, statements, and alliances . . . . . using these things we the people are charged with the responsibility of deciding who gets the keys to the Oval office.  Now we have seriously flawed candidates to choose from . . . . I actually contributed to Bernie's campaign but am fully aware that if he becomes the nominee the GOP will rain hell down on him just as they are currently on HRC, it's part of the process.  As far as the outcome it makes more practical sense to elect HRC, warts and all, because in my mind she represents stability and competence compared to Trump who represents instability and incompetence.  Do I like Bernie? Yes, absolutely but most of his populist hyperbole is pie in the sky, especially given a House governed by Republicans who have refused to lend any support whatsoever for Obama we can deduce then that nothing will happen with Bernie . . . . if Trump wins we will have the Pubs with all three branches of government and potential selection of up to four appointees to the SCOTUS . . . . I am no longer conflicted . . . . go HRC!

An astute and clear eyed assessment of the situation we currently face.

I'll second that.  

Count me in also. Trump would be a disaster.

Guest


Guest

PkrBum wrote:
2seaoat wrote:She is the most experienced presidential candidate in 100 years

Ridiculous. See: hoover, taft, harrison, lbj, nixon... etc. And arguably: fdr, wilson, lbj, reagan... etc. Infact... she has no direct executive experience... unless you want to consider her debacle as sos: Russia reset, libya, syria, tunisia, egypt... etc.

I will give you this... it's a very popular leftist establishment talkingpoint. But your comrades don't qualify 100 years.

April 7, 2016 Email to Campaign Donors

" If you’re with her, chip in to get your free sticker and let her know how proud you are to support the most qualified candidate in the history of our country." Robby Mook (Hillary campaign manager)

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Wordslinger wrote:The following article says exactly what I feel:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44651.htm

Even if your vote helps defeat Trump you’re clearly telling Democratic party elites they can confidently betray your concerns as long as they offer you someone marginally better than the Republican alternative. Where will it end? The Democratic Party will just continue to betray progressive causes with impunity. Progressives should say enough is enough and put moral principles above short-term political expediency.

I agree completely that the Democratic Party has become just another branch of the Business Party http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/chomsky-todays-democrats-are-moderate-republicans?akid=14263.310455.Oa2voI&rd=1&src=newsletter1056516&t=14 and has ignored its progressive base for years. In short they have sold out. They are not standing for principals that help the middle class or unions or anti-war factions to the extent I would like to see. The Congress is a total wreck making any reasonable proposals along these lines DOA.

That being said it is extremely difficult for me to get behind the notion that it would be more moral to vote for a third party candidate or to not vote at all than it would be to vote for HRC thereby basically electing Donald.

How can it be a moral choice if your vote or non-vote helps to elect a psychopath?

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

2seaoat wrote:Hillary is not the lesser of two evils.  She is the most experienced presidential candidate in 100 years and she is competent.  We have seen what incompetency can do in the office of President.   Bernie has framed the debate in incredible naive rose colored glasses.   As much as he is dead cinch correct on some issues, when he tries to tie his paradigm into a nice neat package there are incredible gaps which he overlooks and just thinks it will magically come together once he is President.  I think others have mentioned this, but they are correct.  At this point his efforts and revolution would better be spent on congressional races as the real battle for systemic change in American politics will begin and end in Congress.

You of all people should know that the way to accomplish something big is to THINK BIG. Dammit, I'm tired of people saying that Bernie Sanders' agenda is impossible to achieve...so what do we do? Continue to go with the status quo, which has eroded the middle class for decades? We need change; we got some of it with President Obama, who will, despite all the efforts to take him down, be remembered as one of our greatest Presidents.

And the Hillary-bashing...that's counterproductive...as is the idea of voting third-party.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

...the way to accomplish something big is to THINK BIG. Dammit, I'm tired of people saying that Bernie Sanders' agenda is impossible to achieve...so what do we do? Continue to go with the status quo, which has eroded the middle class for decades? We need change; we got some of it with President Obama, who will, despite all the efforts to take him down, be remembered as one of our greatest Presidents.

And the Hillary-bashing...that's counterproductive...as is the idea of voting third-party.

I agree with your notion that we need big change. I still hold out a small hope that SOMETHING will pop on the news scene before the convention that will render HRC dead politically and shift all the discontent in the party behind Bernie, that is my hope but we must deal with what seem to be our  options at the moment if she is our nominee.

I vote in Florida and voted for Bernie in the primary. I have sent him donations. Other than signing up to work on a phone bank or some similar activity I do not know what else I can do at this point.

Obviously if HRC is the Democrats' nominee Bernie will not be on the ballot in the Fall. What are you proposing we do, those of us who are Bernie supporters?

Guest


Guest

Move to venezuela or n.korea or russia or portugal or spain or china... etc.

It's not like there aren't already socialist utopias. Enjoy comrades.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

PkrBum wrote:Move to venezuela or n.korea or russia or portugal or spain or china... etc.

It's not like there aren't already socialist utopias. Enjoy comrades.

This is such an old tried-true right wing tactic to try and undermine or discredit arguments made or discussions carried on that express views you do not agree with.

No one is looking to move. No one is advocating a socialist utopia. I just wonder why you think this country should be run by Wall Street and other special interests? What is the benefit to the general population? I ask this because that is exactly what's been happening for the last few decades.

Is Trump your answer? What do you propose to improve the country or do you think things are just wonderful as is?

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