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KKK, counterprotesters clash in California; 5 hurt and 13 arrested

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ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/27/us/kkk-rally-in-anaheim-violence/index.html



In California? This happened yesterday in Anaheim (where Disneyland is located). There was a large contingent of KKK in Southern California when I was stationed there in 1980. They don't dress up in robes like they do here, but they have the same white supremacist attitudes.

The counter protesters were the intolerant ones here. They outnumbered the KKK members who had announced their march into a minority area of Anaheim beforehand, told police about what they were going to do, etc. They were outnumbered by the counter protestors, who attacked them and threw the first punches. No guns were fired, but 3 people were stabbed; one with the end of a flagpole (critical injury). All the police were trying to do was stop the fighting and protect everyone's First Amendment rights. Thirteen people were arrested.

The First amendment protection was the bottom line here, so long as no other laws were broken or rights suppressed. Even the Westboro Baptist Church is protected by the First Amendment.

Stupidity reigned on both sides. It was stupid for the white supremacists to hold a march into an Orange County barrio. It was also stupid for the counter protestors to not hold a "peaceful" rally against them.

Thank God nobody brought any firearms to this melee!!

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Sal

Sal

TRUMP 2016

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Salinsky wrote:TRUMP 2016

No shit!!!! This just in at CNN.com:


Trump won't disavow support from KKK, David Duke
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/28/politics/donald-trump-white-supremacists/index.html

He told Jake Trapper this morning that he didn't know who David Duke was and did not know the KKK was endorsing him..... Is he that out of touch with mainstream America? Running for President ain't reality TV, ya know......

It looks like he just lost the Jewish vote, as the ADL is calling on him to repudiate Duke's endorsement.


...The Anti-Defamation League had called on Trump to repudiate the support of Duke, the former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, and other white supremacist groups...


Trump seriously needs a political-correctness coach.

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2seaoat



Hell no he won't. The Dixiecrats finally have a candidate who is not pretending to be a hater while shilling for the Oligarchy.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

So, the local chapter of the KKK, sans robes and hoods, decides to hold a "peaceful protest" in the barrio, and that's an exercise in free speech?  Free speech is not an absolute right in the US or anywhere else.  There are always limits and those limits are subject to interpretation by the Supreme Court.  

http://debmcalister.com/2011/06/03/7-things-you-cant-claim-first-amendment-rights-to-say/

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

These 45 words make up the complete First Amendment to the U.S.  Constitution.  For many of us, they are the most important words ever strung into a complex sentence, because they’re the foundation for the unique American way of life.

Originally, First Amendment protections applied only to laws passed by the U.S. Congress, but since 1925 (Gitlow v. New York, 268 U.S. 652), they’ve applied to the rules set by government at any level — federal, state, and local.  The founders obviously intended that the First Amendment be a broad, sweeping statement of the rights they wanted to secure for themselves and their descendents.

But the First Amendment can’t protect Internet and social media users who forget that the free speech guarantee isn’t a free pass to say whatever you want without facing consequences.  That’s because while the First Amendment protects some kinds of speech (that is, you can say or do it), there’s no requirement that other people (such as employers, fraternal organizations, or schools) have to associate with you once you do.  And the First Amendment does not protect all kinds of speech.

The First Amendment Does NOT Protect:

Hate speech.  OK, it protects it sometimes — and sometimes it doesn’t.  For example, the Supreme Court ruled that  Westboro Baptist Church’s hateful protests at military funerals are legal — while most “fighting words” are not.  A Jehovah’s Witness  went to prison for calling a police officer a “God damned racketeer”, a teenager was jailed for burning a cross, and Hustler paid damages to a preacher over a parody labelled as such in the magazine.
 
Speech that incites violence or encourages the audience to commit illegal or dangerous acts.  This is another gray area.  A radio station tried to claim First Amendment protection when two cars chasing a station car carrying prizes forced a third car off the road, killing the driver.  But the courts said that reckless driving was the foreseeable result of the station’s broadcasts.  In another case, chat room conversations that encouraged suicide were also denied First Amendment protection.

“Material support“ to domestic or foreign terrorist groups, even if that “support” intends to offer peaceful alternatives to conflict through humanitarian aid.

Public speech made in the conduct of their duties by public employees.  Richard Ceballos was a LA County Sheriff’s Deputy whose grievance went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court to clarify a key point that many social media users should know by heart:  the law distinguishes between what an employee says as a private citizen, and statements made as part of the person’s job responsibilities.  Your employer, however, does NOT have to make any such distinction.  In many states, you can get fired for making statements as a private citizen that your employer finds objectionable.  Some regulations (such as FINRA, HIPAA, FERPA, and SEC rules for insurance, financial services, health care, education, and brokers) make no distinction between what a person says as a private citizen and what they say as part of their job.  So this is an area that each social media user should understand as it relates to their own profession.

Slander, libel or defamation.  There are many, many nuances here — and the rules are different depending on whether or not the injured person is a public or private figure.  Context matters, too, and so does whether the words used are an opinion (usually, but not always, protected) or factual statement (not protected unless the facts are provably true — and proving the truth is often far more costly and difficult than you might think).

Publishing confidential, trade secret, or copyright material.  I’m not going to even attempt to discuss this in any detail, because the rules are just too complex.  But remember that non-disclosure agreements, employee policy agreements, and contracts apply online and off.  Yes, there are whistleblower statues in some states that will protect an employee who goes public with otherwise protected information because of a threat to public health or illegal activity.  But there is no absolute protection for whistleblowers — and it doesn’t exist everywhere.

True threats.  Like many other areas of First Amendment protection, context, target, and intent matter in determining what is or is not a true threat. Some threats are always illegal — any threat to the President of the U.S., for example. Check out Stanford University’s The Nuremberg Files for a detailed account of the case in which over 200 doctors sued a website which published “Wanted: Dead or Alive” posters with the photos and home addresses of doctors who performed abortions, with details about the doctor’s families (such as the school their children attended, where their spouses worked, and what kinds of cars they drove).  The doctors said that the wanted posters constituted a true threat — and two murders were attributed to the campaign.  (One doctor murdered at church, another at home.) In this case, the Supreme Court ruled that the First Amendment protected the website and its wanted posters.  In other cases, felony and anti-terrorism charges have resulted from less direct threats.  
Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote that “the most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.” Other areas that are not protected include solicitation, child pornography,  and obscenity.

Last, but not least, a corporation or someone acting on behalf of a corporation, and members of certain professions, may not violate the rules and regulations that apply to corporate advertising, sales literature, public appearances, or offers.  The rights discussed in this article generally apply to individual American citizens, not corporate entities.

Note:  For more on the subject of free speech and employment, check a recent blog post titled Exercise Your Free Speech Rights — or Keep Your Job?

# # #

I fear we are headed for Civil War II in this country.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

You have a right to SAY whatever you want in America, FT. I did say that consequences might follow..... But you can still say anything you want, anywhere you want in America.

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Sal

Sal

My understanding is that the counter protestors were shouting and jeering at the bigots, and being the cowards they are, the bigots got scared and pulled knifes and stabbed some people.

That's when the counter protesters grabbed 2x4s and metal rods and whatever they could find and beat the living hell out of them.

Apparently, a Jewish man saved the grand dragon from having his brains beaten in.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

2seaoat wrote:Hell no he won't.  The Dixiecrats finally have a candidate who is not pretending to be a hater while shilling for the Oligarchy.

Apparently, Trump is a big user of Twitter, and he has retweeted statements multiple times that he had to know originated with white supremacy groups.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:You have a right to SAY whatever you want in America, FT. I did say that consequences might follow..... But you can still say anything you want, anywhere you want in America.

I'm well aware of that, Z. And those consequences might be that the speech is ILLEGAL...which is where the repercussions would arise. So free speech has limits. Are you really supporting the KKK in this (or any other) instance?

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Are you really supporting the KKK in this (or any other) instance?

No, I have never supported the KKK......

I remember watching a long line of Klansmen (in white robes) walking out of the old Mason's lodge in Milton in 1976 one Saturday. My room mate was with me and we were trying to drive back to Whiting Field, where we lived in the BOQ. He was a UC Berkley graduate, and had grown up in the San Francisco Bay area, The police had stopped all traffic to allow the Klansmen to parade west down the middle of  Highway 90. Roomie started to roll the window down to yell an expletive at them, but I talked him out of it. I didn't want these guys attacking us/my car.

Milton was at one time a focal point of intolerance in Northwest Florida. It was still a backwater of a town in 1976.

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2seaoat



My experience as a five year old was seeing this poor woman in the mid fifties who had been given a frontal lobotomy. Her insanity was being gay. Short hair and male characteristics.......she had the scar on her head and she loved my brother and I. As my mother and aunt grew up with her, she lived across the street from my grandparents. After the lobotomy she was different than other adults and would spend a great deal of time with my brother and I. I learned later in life that my mother had been playing in the girl's house when they came upon her father's KKK closet with all his costumes and regalia. My mother said he beat his family and was a cruel drunk, but everybody understood what a burning cross meant on your lawn, and losers like this man could bring you into compliance as anybody who did not closely follow the rules of Jim Crow was targeted. I still remember as a child her chain smoking camels and the very distinct scar as she was very slow. My mother and aunt both said she was a great student and intelligent child. What a cruel world I saw as Bob finds nostalgia in the old south.

This experience was in my lifetime. Hatred does not spontaneously disappear. It will take generations and the KKK will always lurk in the shadows.

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