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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Bernie Sanders - "I am not actively involved with organized religion."

Bernie Sanders - "I am not actively involved with organized religion."

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Hospital Bob
boards of FL
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boards of FL

boards of FL

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bernie-sanders-finally-answers-the-god-question/2016/01/26/83429390-bfb0-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html


He keeps getting better!


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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Try to answer this question with total impartiality,  bds.  And this is strictly about the horse race,  not about policies or any of that.

I realize his revealing this will be no detriment to him amongst his base constituency.
But the question is,  if he's the nominee,  do you think this will help him or hurt him in a general election?

boards of FL

boards of FL

Bob wrote:Try to answer this question with total impartiality,  bds.  And this is strictly about the horse race,  not about policies or any of that.

I realize his revealing this will be no detriment to him amongst his base constituency.
But the question is,  if he's the nominee,  do you think this will help him or hurt him in a general election?



In the future, I think it will be a major liability for one to claim that they are affiliated with any organized religion.

In the past, it was obviously a major liability for one to claim that they are not affiliated with any organized religion.

Today, we're somewhere in between that but probably closer to the past. It's hard to say. There will be some who won't vote for Sanders based on that comment and some who will based on that comment. That said, I think those who would not vote for Sanders based on that comment probably wouldn't have voted for him anyways.

Final verdit: This will have very little, if any impact.


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dumpcare



Good God he is after my vote. I do not believe in organized religion either. Don't mistake this for being an atheist.

This is how elected officials should be.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

It's just more evidence of how wide the divide is with the two factions.

On the other side of the divide,  you have the leading candidate actually pretending to participate in organized religion just to win support from that side.

And markle may challenge me on the "pretending" part,  but from all we've learned about Trump,  I'd say he has about as much sincere respect for organized religion as I do.  lol



Last edited by Bob on 1/27/2016, 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

Sal

Sal

This is certainly a winning position with Millenials.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:This is certainly a winning position with Millenials.

I agree.  And if all voters in the country were millenials,  he'd be a shoo-in.

Bds got it right.  We're in a transition period between the past and the future.
And it's just like the take on queers.
With both religion and queers,  the country slowly seems to be transitioning from one school of thought to the other. 

And interestingly,  the fact that the country seems to be making that transition is what so many on the right side of the divide are so fearful of.  Which pretty much explains the Trump phenomenon.
Trump has become the symbol for the desire to hang on to the past.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Ironic though,  that the symbol of the "future",  would be the oldest person to ever be elected President.  lol

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:Ironic though,  that the symbol of the "future",  would be the oldest person to ever be elected President.  lol

But not as ironic as the living embodiment of the Seven Deadly Sins being the preferred candidate of evangelical voters.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:
Bob wrote:Ironic though,  that the symbol of the "future",  would be the oldest person to ever be elected President.  lol

But not as ironic as the living embodiment of the Seven Deadly Sins being the preferred candidate of evangelical voters.

No argument there.  lol

But there is precedent.  Jim and Tammy were also the darlings of the evangelicals.  And so were a lot of other phonies.   lol

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

It's about time we finally get a candidate who isn't going to pretend he's a born again Question ... er... Christian! I love it. Bernie just isn't involved with RELIGION. Yaaayyyyyyy Team!



Guest


Guest

He is not active in religion.

I could say the same thing.  I am a Christ follower and I am not active in religion.  Religion has hours, rules, and platforms.  Jesus does not.

Excerpt from an article in the Washington Post:

"Sanders, 74, told The Washington Post that his upbringing as the son of an immigrant father and first-generation American mother in Brooklyn instilled in him a sense of morality found in Judaism and many other faiths.

“I want to be treated with dignity and respect, and I want other people to be treated with dignity and respect,” he said. “I think it is important that a sense of morality be part of our politics.”


Sounds like a wise man, spiritually; maybe a little like Bob's golden rule theory.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Good point,  SheWrites,  that wordslinger shouldn't overlook.
Sanders did not tell us he's a "non-believer".  Just that he's not involved in ORGANIZED religion.

dumpcare



Bob wrote:
Salinsky wrote:
Bob wrote:Ironic though,  that the symbol of the "future",  would be the oldest person to ever be elected President.  lol

But not as ironic as the living embodiment of the Seven Deadly Sins being the preferred candidate of evangelical voters.

No argument there.  lol

But there is precedent.  Jim and Tammy were also the darlings of the evangelicals.  And so were a lot of other phonies.   lol

This made me laugh, I always told my wife it looked like she was driving over a bumpy road while applying makeup.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The really revealing thing for me is seeing Jerry Falwell Jr. buying into Trump's "Christianity" when he could have aligned himself with actual Christian candidates. 
Either he's just another phony like most of the tv "evangelists",  or he's as naive as Forrest Gump.  lol

dumpcare



I would venture to guess Trump hasn't been in a church for just about as long as I have stepped inside one.

boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:He is not active in religion.

I could say the same thing.  I am a Christ follower and I am not active in religion.  Religion has hours, rules, and platforms.  Jesus does not.



There is a clear distinction between your religious beliefs and Sanders'.

Here is Sanders'.

“I think everyone believes in God in their own ways,” he said. “To me, it means that all of us are connected, all of life is connected, and that we are all tied together.”


This is more in the category of deism. It is simply a philosophical conjecture that perhaps at some deep level of life and consciousness, there is some level of unity.

That is an entirely different belief system from stating that not only do you know how the universe was created, but you know the name of the guy who created it. You even know the name of his son. And that guy actively involves himself in our lives and cares about what we do in the bedroom and with our genitals.

Once you begin to claim a knowledge of things like that to the degree that you even claim to know the names of these gods, and that you may or may not have conversation with them on a daily basis...well, that is when you break away from what Sanders is talking about. That is when you enter the world of organized religion.


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boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:He is not active in religion.

I could say the same thing.  I am a Christ follower and I am not active in religion.  Religion has hours, rules, and platforms.  Jesus does not.



There is a clear distinction between your religious beliefs and Sanders'.

Here is Sanders'.

“I think everyone believes in God in their own ways,” he said. “To me, it means that all of us are connected, all of life is connected, and that we are all tied together.”


This is more in the category of deism.  It is simply a philosophical conjecture that perhaps at some deep level of life and consciousness, there is some level of unity.  

That is an entirely different belief system from stating that not only do you know how the universe was created, but you know the name of the guy who created it.  You even know the name of his son.  And that guy actively involves himself in our lives and cares about what we do in the bedroom and with our genitals.  

Once you begin to claim a knowledge of things like that to the degree that you even claim to know the names of these gods, and that you may or may not have conversation with them on a daily basis...well, that is when you break away from what Sanders is talking about.   That is when you enter the world of organized religion.


I think my conclusions were valid based on the article.

boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:He is not active in religion.

I could say the same thing.  I am a Christ follower and I am not active in religion.  Religion has hours, rules, and platforms.  Jesus does not.



There is a clear distinction between your religious beliefs and Sanders'.

Here is Sanders'.

“I think everyone believes in God in their own ways,” he said. “To me, it means that all of us are connected, all of life is connected, and that we are all tied together.”


This is more in the category of deism.  It is simply a philosophical conjecture that perhaps at some deep level of life and consciousness, there is some level of unity.  

That is an entirely different belief system from stating that not only do you know how the universe was created, but you know the name of the guy who created it.  You even know the name of his son.  And that guy actively involves himself in our lives and cares about what we do in the bedroom and with our genitals.  

Once you begin to claim a knowledge of things like that to the degree that you even claim to know the names of these gods, and that you may or may not have conversation with them on a daily basis...well, that is when you break away from what Sanders is talking about.   That is when you enter the world of organized religion.


I think my conclusions were valid based on the article.  



Well, you believe that Jesus is the son of god - Jahweh, correct?  And Jahweh took human form in Jesus by way of a virgin birth ala Mary.  He was eventually killed, and then came back to life from the dead.  Etc. etc.  You even attribute very specific quotes to these people as if they are historical fact, and you live by them.   And you didn't inately discover this on your own. These fables were necessarily taught to you - likely at a very young age - by members of a organized religion.

Have I mis-stated anything here?


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boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:He is not active in religion.

I could say the same thing.  I am a Christ follower and I am not active in religion.  Religion has hours, rules, and platforms.  Jesus does not.



There is a clear distinction between your religious beliefs and Sanders'.

Here is Sanders'.

“I think everyone believes in God in their own ways,” he said. “To me, it means that all of us are connected, all of life is connected, and that we are all tied together.”


This is more in the category of deism.  It is simply a philosophical conjecture that perhaps at some deep level of life and consciousness, there is some level of unity.  

That is an entirely different belief system from stating that not only do you know how the universe was created, but you know the name of the guy who created it.  You even know the name of his son.  And that guy actively involves himself in our lives and cares about what we do in the bedroom and with our genitals.  

Once you begin to claim a knowledge of things like that to the degree that you even claim to know the names of these gods, and that you may or may not have conversation with them on a daily basis...well, that is when you break away from what Sanders is talking about.   That is when you enter the world of organized religion.


I think my conclusions were valid based on the article.  



Well, you believe that Jesus is the son of god - Jahweh, correct?  And Jahweh took human form in Jesus by way of a virgin birth ala Mary.  He was eventually killed, and then came back to life from the dead.  Etc. etc.  You even attribute very specific quotes to these people as if they are historical fact, and you live by them.   And you didn't inately discover this on your own.  These fables were necessarily taught to you - likely at a very young age - by members of a organized religion.

Have I mis-stated anything here?

I don't beat you about the head and shoulders over your non religion so back off of me please.  

I stand by what I stated in regard to the article posted.  

You obviously were not treated well by "religion" at some point in your life.  Work through that without attacking me.  

Thank you.

boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:He is not active in religion.

I could say the same thing.  I am a Christ follower and I am not active in religion.  Religion has hours, rules, and platforms.  Jesus does not.



There is a clear distinction between your religious beliefs and Sanders'.

Here is Sanders'.

“I think everyone believes in God in their own ways,” he said. “To me, it means that all of us are connected, all of life is connected, and that we are all tied together.”


This is more in the category of deism.  It is simply a philosophical conjecture that perhaps at some deep level of life and consciousness, there is some level of unity.  

That is an entirely different belief system from stating that not only do you know how the universe was created, but you know the name of the guy who created it.  You even know the name of his son.  And that guy actively involves himself in our lives and cares about what we do in the bedroom and with our genitals.  

Once you begin to claim a knowledge of things like that to the degree that you even claim to know the names of these gods, and that you may or may not have conversation with them on a daily basis...well, that is when you break away from what Sanders is talking about.   That is when you enter the world of organized religion.


I think my conclusions were valid based on the article.  



Well, you believe that Jesus is the son of god - Jahweh, correct?  And Jahweh took human form in Jesus by way of a virgin birth ala Mary.  He was eventually killed, and then came back to life from the dead.  Etc. etc.  You even attribute very specific quotes to these people as if they are historical fact, and you live by them.   And you didn't inately discover this on your own.  These fables were necessarily taught to you - likely at a very young age - by members of a organized religion.

Have I mis-stated anything here?

I don't beat you about the head and shoulders over your non religion so back off of me please.  

I stand by what I stated in regard to the article posted.  

You obviously were not treated well by "religion" at some point in your life.  Worth through that without attacking me.  

Thank you.


My point here is that when you subscribe to very specific...let's call them stories...that give you names, quotes, and very specific events and explanations...all of which are contained in the scripture of an organized religion...well...you kinda forfeit the ability to say "I don't subscribe to organized religion."

Contrast that with Sanders' view.  One doesn't have to be indoctrinated by anyone in order to arrive at Sanders' view.  Any philosopher could sit down and independently arrive at Sanders' view.

But in contrast, a philosopher cannot sit down and deductively or independently come up with Jesus, Jahweh, Mary, virgin birth, all of the quotes, the resurrection, end times, beginning times, etc, etc.   Those types of beliefs necessarily have to come through indoctrination, and the gears of the indoctrination machine are powered by organized religion.  And therein lies the difference.

No idea where you're getting the idea that I'm beating you about the head and shoulders.


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boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:He is not active in religion.

I could say the same thing.  I am a Christ follower and I am not active in religion.  Religion has hours, rules, and platforms.  Jesus does not.



There is a clear distinction between your religious beliefs and Sanders'.

Here is Sanders'.

“I think everyone believes in God in their own ways,” he said. “To me, it means that all of us are connected, all of life is connected, and that we are all tied together.”


This is more in the category of deism.  It is simply a philosophical conjecture that perhaps at some deep level of life and consciousness, there is some level of unity.  

That is an entirely different belief system from stating that not only do you know how the universe was created, but you know the name of the guy who created it.  You even know the name of his son.  And that guy actively involves himself in our lives and cares about what we do in the bedroom and with our genitals.  

Once you begin to claim a knowledge of things like that to the degree that you even claim to know the names of these gods, and that you may or may not have conversation with them on a daily basis...well, that is when you break away from what Sanders is talking about.   That is when you enter the world of organized religion.


I think my conclusions were valid based on the article.  



Well, you believe that Jesus is the son of god - Jahweh, correct?  And Jahweh took human form in Jesus by way of a virgin birth ala Mary.  He was eventually killed, and then came back to life from the dead.  Etc. etc.  You even attribute very specific quotes to these people as if they are historical fact, and you live by them.   And you didn't inately discover this on your own.  These fables were necessarily taught to you - likely at a very young age - by members of a organized religion.

Have I mis-stated anything here?

I don't beat you about the head and shoulders over your non religion so back off of me please.  

I stand by what I stated in regard to the article posted.  

You obviously were not treated well by "religion" at some point in your life.  Worth through that without attacking me.  

Thank you.


My point here is that when you subscribe to very specific...let's call them stories...that give you names, quotes, and very specific events and explanations...all of which are contained in the scripture of an organized religion...well...you kinda forfeit the ability to say "I don't subscribe to organized religion."

Contrast that with Sanders' view.  One doesn't have to be indoctrinated by anyone in order to arrive at Sanders' view.  Any philosopher could sit down and independently arrive at Sanders' view.

But in contrast, a philosopher cannot sit down and deductively or independently come up with Jesus, Jahweh, Mary, virgin birth, all of the quotes, the resurrection, end times, beginning times, etc, etc.   Those types of beliefs necessarily have to come through indoctrination, and the gears of the indoctrination machine are powered by organized religion.  And therein lies the difference.

No idea where you're getting the idea that I'm beating you about the head and shoulders.

Maybe badger is a better description.  

You want to dismiss my beliefs, which you are not fully aware of, and subscribe to the condition that I have been mesmerized by myth.  Your take on your view.  This is not mine.

I've never tried to shove anything in anyone's face or make light of whatever one chooses to believe.  

Yet you can't stand that I can say I am a Christ follower.  You have to broad brush religion on me.  Why is that?

Laughing

The subject is interesting and I say Go Bernie.  We've had a plethora of Presidents who had faith/beliefs but did not stump on the campaign trail with those beliefs.  I think Bernie is aligning himself in this arena.

boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:He is not active in religion.

I could say the same thing.  I am a Christ follower and I am not active in religion.  Religion has hours, rules, and platforms.  Jesus does not.



There is a clear distinction between your religious beliefs and Sanders'.

Here is Sanders'.

“I think everyone believes in God in their own ways,” he said. “To me, it means that all of us are connected, all of life is connected, and that we are all tied together.”


This is more in the category of deism.  It is simply a philosophical conjecture that perhaps at some deep level of life and consciousness, there is some level of unity.  

That is an entirely different belief system from stating that not only do you know how the universe was created, but you know the name of the guy who created it.  You even know the name of his son.  And that guy actively involves himself in our lives and cares about what we do in the bedroom and with our genitals.  

Once you begin to claim a knowledge of things like that to the degree that you even claim to know the names of these gods, and that you may or may not have conversation with them on a daily basis...well, that is when you break away from what Sanders is talking about.   That is when you enter the world of organized religion.


I think my conclusions were valid based on the article.  



Well, you believe that Jesus is the son of god - Jahweh, correct?  And Jahweh took human form in Jesus by way of a virgin birth ala Mary.  He was eventually killed, and then came back to life from the dead.  Etc. etc.  You even attribute very specific quotes to these people as if they are historical fact, and you live by them.   And you didn't inately discover this on your own.  These fables were necessarily taught to you - likely at a very young age - by members of a organized religion.

Have I mis-stated anything here?

I don't beat you about the head and shoulders over your non religion so back off of me please.  

I stand by what I stated in regard to the article posted.  

You obviously were not treated well by "religion" at some point in your life.  Worth through that without attacking me.  

Thank you.


My point here is that when you subscribe to very specific...let's call them stories...that give you names, quotes, and very specific events and explanations...all of which are contained in the scripture of an organized religion...well...you kinda forfeit the ability to say "I don't subscribe to organized religion."

Contrast that with Sanders' view.  One doesn't have to be indoctrinated by anyone in order to arrive at Sanders' view.  Any philosopher could sit down and independently arrive at Sanders' view.

But in contrast, a philosopher cannot sit down and deductively or independently come up with Jesus, Jahweh, Mary, virgin birth, all of the quotes, the resurrection, end times, beginning times, etc, etc.   Those types of beliefs necessarily have to come through indoctrination, and the gears of the indoctrination machine are powered by organized religion.  And therein lies the difference.

No idea where you're getting the idea that I'm beating you about the head and shoulders.

Maybe badger is a better description.  

You want to dismiss my beliefs, which you are not fully aware of, and subscribe to the condition that I have been mesmerized by myth.  Your take on your view.  This is not mine.

I've never tried to shove anything in anyone's face or make light of whatever one chooses to believe.  

Yet you can't stand that I can say I am a Christ follower.  You have to broad brush religion on me.  Why is that?

Laughing

The subject is interesting and I say Go Bernie.  We've had a plethora of Presidents who had faith/beliefs but did not stump on the campaign trail with those beliefs.  I think Bernie is aligning himself in this arena.


I'm not dismissing your beliefs here.  I'm saying that they are very specific theistic beliefs rooted in organized religion.  You just said it yourself.  You are a "Christ follower".  That's theism.

All I'm doing is pointing out that those beliefs are quite different from what Sanders' explained - which is not theism.

So take that! I'm pummeling you with a barrage of punches and kicks about your shoulders and head!


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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

It's your tone,  bds.  At times it comes across as condescending. 

It takes one to know one because sometimes so does mine.  You and I both need improvement in that area.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I've been reading about Sanders' background.  He was raised in a Jewish household (both parents).
He has said that he values that upbringing.  Mainly because when he was young he remembers being told about relatives who were put to death in Nazi concentration camps and that gave him an affinity for what it meant to be Jewish.
But he doesn't practice Judaism and his concept of "god" is not how the word is traditionally defined.

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