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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » The best possible thing is about to happen in the MidEast -- Saudi Arabia vs. Iran

The best possible thing is about to happen in the MidEast -- Saudi Arabia vs. Iran

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ZVUGKTUBM
Hospital Bob
Markle
2seaoat
TEOTWAWKI
Wordslinger
10 posters

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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Besides,  Obama aint in office forever.  In fact,  for not too much longer.

And even if this was to go down BEFORE he leaves office,  the pressure on him to defend a major ally of the American government would be so great that not even a messiah like Obama would be able to defy that.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Notice,  I keep referring to Saudi Arabia as an ally of the American "GOVERNMENT".  Which it is.

I specify that because it sure as hell aint no ally to me.  If everyone in that country dropped dead tomorrow I wouldn't give a shit.  And the same goes for Iran.



Last edited by Bob on 1/4/2016, 1:58 am; edited 1 time in total

2seaoat



If war breaks out between Iran, this government's enemy, and Saudi Arabia, this government's ally, it will provide this government the perfect opportunity to obliterate Iran's attempts to become a nuclear power.



President Obama understands the Israeli and Saudi positions of the need for immediacy of war. Sorry, your pedestrian interpretation reflects a mass gap in understanding the nature of this conflict. Not now, perhaps later, but the Iranians are playing the long game.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Seaoat,  that's all the same kind of word salad you used for Zimmerman. 
You told all the rest of us then that,  unlike only you,   we're just ignorant uneducated dumbasses who don't know anything because we don't read books like you do.  And because of that ONLY YOU knew that the trial actually found Zimmerman to be guilty of manslaughter.  lol

2seaoat



actually found Zimmerman to be guilty of manslaughter.

Nope, you still do not understand what I was saying about the presumptions and shifting burden in the Zimmerman case. I did not skip school. I read five newspapers a day and learned in graduate school and beyond. If you want to play like you understand the middle east, then start reading, and catch up for the forty years you paid no attention to books, history, or current events.....in regard to the law......you are incapable of having the patience to learn something which is cumulative. I imagine math, foreign languages, and an understanding of the law are foreign to you. I speak the truth, you get mad, but it does not change reality. Your insight is always welcome, but when you pretend to master something which you are totally clueless, well.....that is why I love this place. A word salad often is tasty for those who can comprehend and have the learning to do the same.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I've been constantly reading stuff all my life,  seaoat.  Before the advent of the internet,  I used to spend a lot of time in libraries.  And libraries contain books.
After the advent of the internet I spend a whole lot of time reading stuff on the internet.

I never said I don't read books.  What I've said is I don't read fiction (novels).  Although I've read very many synopses of works of fiction.

And I'm not mad when I read what you write.  I'm entertained.  lol

2seaoat



I will never regret the formal education which I was blessed in my youth because in my senior years I have found the absence of the same is a horrible handicap which rarely has a wheel chair or artificial leg which can replace the same.........to be old and wise is a gift earned.......not given away without thousands of hours of work. Some can pretend......some can fool themselves, but life choices have been made, and it is never too late to learn, but so much to learn and so little time.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Seaoat,  no human being,  and that even includes the greatest minds in history like Einstein and Obama and you,  can ever learn more than just a little inkling of all there is to learn and know.  And multiple PHD's don't change that.

2seaoat



Seaoat, no human being, and that even includes the greatest minds in history like Einstein and Obama and you, can ever learn more than just a little inkling of all there is to learn and know. And multiple PHD's don't change that.

Wrong.......it is relative.........Size does matter Bob.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:

Wrong.......it is relative.........Size does matter Bob.

Size of what matters?  The brain, the dick,  or the number of PHD's or what?

No it's not relative.  No human being can know but a very small amount of all there is to learn and know.  I'm afraid that applies to all of us,  even you.

Markle

Markle

Bob wrote:
2seaoat wrote:That is also absolutely and positively A FACT.  And an indisputable fact (except seaoat will find a way to dispute it).  lol

Nope......there are some who buy the Israeli position and only a fool would dispute that fact, but that fact has become abundantly clear to be a minority position in this Administration.

Virtually every player in this government,  including obama [Obama],  has stated that the United States will NOT tolerate Iran becoming a nuclear power.

If war breaks out between Iran,  this government's enemy,  and Saudi Arabia,  this government's ally,  it will provide this government the perfect opportunity to obliterate Iran's attempts to become a nuclear power.  There is no way in hell this government will stand by and let Iran defeat it's most prized ally in the Middle East (other than Israel).  To believe it would is almost childishly naive.

Semi-retired President Obama will do nothing.  He is an incompetent and feckless "leader".

In violation of the UNSIGNED agreement between Iraq and President Obama, Iran have launched two ballistic missiles in violation of UN resolutions and this week launched unguided missiles which landed within 1,500 yards of US Navy ships and private freighters and tankers.

Washington was ready to reimpose sanctions and...not surprising, President Obama stopped that in its tracks.  Iraq continues their march toward a nuclear weapon and President Obama simply hopes he can make it to the finish line of his failed administration.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:
Bob wrote:
2seaoat wrote:That is also absolutely and positively A FACT.  And an indisputable fact (except seaoat will find a way to dispute it).  lol

Nope......there are some who buy the Israeli position and only a fool would dispute that fact, but that fact has become abundantly clear to be a minority position in this Administration.

Virtually every player in this government,  including obama [Obama],  has stated that the United States will NOT tolerate Iran becoming a nuclear power.

If war breaks out between Iran,  this government's enemy,  and Saudi Arabia,  this government's ally,  it will provide this government the perfect opportunity to obliterate Iran's attempts to become a nuclear power.  There is no way in hell this government will stand by and let Iran defeat it's most prized ally in the Middle East (other than Israel).  To believe it would is almost childishly naive.

Semi-retired President Obama will do nothing.  He is an incompetent and feckless "leader".

In violation of the UNSIGNED agreement between Iraq and President Obama, Iran have launched two ballistic missiles in violation of UN resolutions and this week launched unguided missiles which landed within 1,500 yards of US Navy ships and private freighters and tankers.

Washington was ready to reimpose sanctions and...not surprising, President Obama stopped that in its tracks.  Iraq continues their march toward a nuclear weapon and President Obama simply hopes he can make it to the finish line of his failed administration.



Bullshit. If Obama could run again he'd win again .. after all, obviously the best the republicans can do right now is offer Trump. LOL

Markle

Markle

Bob wrote:Besides,  Obama aint in office forever.  In fact,  for not too much longer.

And even if this was to go down BEFORE he leaves office,  the pressure on him to defend a major ally of the American government would be so great that not even a messiah like Obama would be able to defy that.

Semi-retired President Obama will do NOTHING. Take that to the bank.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Bob wrote:
2seaoat wrote:That is also absolutely and positively A FACT.  And an indisputable fact (except seaoat will find a way to dispute it).  lol

Nope......there are some who buy the Israeli position and only a fool would dispute that fact, but that fact has become abundantly clear to be a minority position in this Administration.

Virtually every player in this government,  including obama [Obama],  has stated that the United States will NOT tolerate Iran becoming a nuclear power.

If war breaks out between Iran,  this government's enemy,  and Saudi Arabia,  this government's ally,  it will provide this government the perfect opportunity to obliterate Iran's attempts to become a nuclear power.  There is no way in hell this government will stand by and let Iran defeat it's most prized ally in the Middle East (other than Israel).  To believe it would is almost childishly naive.

Semi-retired President Obama will do nothing.  He is an incompetent and feckless "leader".

In violation of the UNSIGNED agreement between Iraq and President Obama, Iran have launched two ballistic missiles in violation of UN resolutions and this week launched unguided missiles which landed within 1,500 yards of US Navy ships and private freighters and tankers.

Washington was ready to reimpose sanctions and...not surprising, President Obama stopped that in its tracks.  Iraq continues their march toward a nuclear weapon and President Obama simply hopes he can make it to the finish line of his failed administration.



Bullshit.  If Obama could run again he'd win again .. after all, obviously the best the republicans can do right now is offer Trump.  LOL  

2024 will be the earliest another Republican president will be elected. They could possibly take the Whitehouse back in 2020 if they run a strong moderate who can gain broad appeal across the voter spectrum. They need to re-brand themselves and ditch the crazy extremes, first. 2016 is already lost.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

Markle wrote:Iraq continues their march toward a nuclear weapon and President Obama simply hopes he can make it to the finish line of his failed administration.

The best possible thing is about to happen in the MidEast -- Saudi Arabia vs. Iran - Page 2 Laughi15

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Bob wrote:
2seaoat wrote:That is also absolutely and positively A FACT.  And an indisputable fact (except seaoat will find a way to dispute it).  lol

Nope......there are some who buy the Israeli position and only a fool would dispute that fact, but that fact has become abundantly clear to be a minority position in this Administration.

Virtually every player in this government,  including obama [Obama],  has stated that the United States will NOT tolerate Iran becoming a nuclear power.

If war breaks out between Iran,  this government's enemy,  and Saudi Arabia,  this government's ally,  it will provide this government the perfect opportunity to obliterate Iran's attempts to become a nuclear power.  There is no way in hell this government will stand by and let Iran defeat it's most prized ally in the Middle East (other than Israel).  To believe it would is almost childishly naive.

Semi-retired President Obama will do nothing.  He is an incompetent and feckless "leader".

In violation of the UNSIGNED agreement between Iraq and President Obama, Iran have launched two ballistic missiles in violation of UN resolutions and this week launched unguided missiles which landed within 1,500 yards of US Navy ships and private freighters and tankers.

Washington was ready to reimpose sanctions and...not surprising, President Obama stopped that in its tracks.  Iraq continues their march toward a nuclear weapon and President Obama simply hopes he can make it to the finish line of his failed administration.

Bullshit.  If Obama could run again he'd win again .. after all, obviously the best the republicans can do right now is offer Trump.  LOL  

Sorry you're still on the heavy meds.

August 10, 2015, 10:45 am
Poll: Obama wouldn't win third term
By Neetzan Zimmerman

In a Monmouth University poll released Monday morning, President Obama’s claim that he could win a third White House term if he were to run in 2016 is put to the test — and fails.

"Under our Constitution, I cannot run again,” Obama told members of the African Union during a recent trip to Ethiopia, adding, “I think if I ran, I could win.”

According to the Monmouth poll, Obama should be glad he can’t run again.

Sixty-eight percent of respondents said they would vote for someone else, while only 26 percent said they would be willing to give the president four more years.

Though an understandably low number of Republicans would cast their vote for a third Obama term (5 percent), he polls at just 23 percent with independents. Even Democrats aren’t so sure they’d want Obama back in the Oval Office: 43 percent would vote for another candidate.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/250715-poll-obama-wouldnt-win-third-term

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Bob wrote:
2seaoat wrote:That is also absolutely and positively A FACT.  And an indisputable fact (except seaoat will find a way to dispute it).  lol

Nope......there are some who buy the Israeli position and only a fool would dispute that fact, but that fact has become abundantly clear to be a minority position in this Administration.

Virtually every player in this government,  including obama [Obama],  has stated that the United States will NOT tolerate Iran becoming a nuclear power.

If war breaks out between Iran,  this government's enemy,  and Saudi Arabia,  this government's ally,  it will provide this government the perfect opportunity to obliterate Iran's attempts to become a nuclear power.  There is no way in hell this government will stand by and let Iran defeat it's most prized ally in the Middle East (other than Israel).  To believe it would is almost childishly naive.

Semi-retired President Obama will do nothing.  He is an incompetent and feckless "leader".

In violation of the UNSIGNED agreement between Iraq and President Obama, Iran have launched two ballistic missiles in violation of UN resolutions and this week launched unguided missiles which landed within 1,500 yards of US Navy ships and private freighters and tankers.

Washington was ready to reimpose sanctions and...not surprising, President Obama stopped that in its tracks.  Iraq continues their march toward a nuclear weapon and President Obama simply hopes he can make it to the finish line of his failed administration.

Bullshit.  If Obama could run again he'd win again .. after all, obviously the best the republicans can do right now is offer Trump.  LOL  

Sorry you're still on the heavy meds.

August 10, 2015, 10:45 am
Poll: Obama wouldn't win third term
By Neetzan Zimmerman

In a Monmouth University poll released Monday morning, President Obama’s claim that he could win a third White House term if he were to run in 2016 is put to the test — and fails.

"Under our Constitution, I cannot run again,” Obama told members of the African Union during a recent trip to Ethiopia, adding, “I think if I ran, I could win.”

According to the Monmouth poll, Obama should be glad he can’t run again.

Sixty-eight percent of respondents said they would vote for someone else, while only 26 percent said they would be willing to give the president four more years.

Though an understandably low number of Republicans would cast their vote for a third Obama term (5 percent), he polls at just 23 percent with independents. Even Democrats aren’t so sure they’d want Obama back in the Oval Office: 43 percent would vote for another candidate.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/250715-poll-obama-wouldnt-win-third-term

One poll.  One.  Still, you might be right.  But even if Obama wouldn't win again, so fucking what?  Shit, ANY democrat would win against the crazies the republicans are offering right now!  Are you insane enough to believe the moderates of this country, democrat or republican, are going to accept Ted "Let's shut down the government if it won't do what we true, evangelical Christians want," Cruz?  Or Marco "I love everything about the Tea Party" Rubio? Or Carly "It's a fact, Planned Parenthood has been processing fetuses to be used as hamburger meat" Fiorina? Or Chris "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it," Christy?

And this is what the republicans are offering moderate America, as opposition to Trump? (I left out Jeb "the war was wrong but my brother is always right" Bush, because the republicans have left him out.)


Where is George Carlin when we need him?  Reality!

Floridatexan

Floridatexan




The United States Shouldn’t Choose Saudi Arabia Over Iran

It’s far too dangerous to take sides in the proxy war between the two great Sunni and Shia states. In fact, our interests are more aligned with Tehran’s.
By Stephen Kinzer
January 04, 2016


Only two Muslim powers remain standing in the Middle East, and suddenly they are on the brink of war. Our old friend, Saudi Arabia, carried out one of its routine mass beheadings last week, and among the victims was a revered Shiite cleric. Our longtime enemy, Iran, which is the heartland of Shiite Islam, was outraged. Furious Iranians burned the Saudi Embassy in Tehran. The next day, Saudi Arabia broke diplomatic relations with Iran.

The United States should do everything possible to avoid choosing sides in an intensifying proxy war between the dominant Shiite and Sunni powers in the Middle East. Though history tells us we should tilt toward Saudi Arabia, our old ally, if we look toward the future, Iran is the more logical partner. The reasons are simple: Iran’s security interests are closer to ours than Saudi Arabia’s are.

Most trouble in the Middle East emerges from ungoverned spaces—the disputed lands of Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Libya and other countries where many people live beyond the reach of legitimate government. This crisis is different. It pits two stable states against each other.

But taking Saudi Arabia’s side would be a disaster. True, militarily the two appear pitifully mismatched. Saudi Arabia is among the world’s best armed states. It has spent vast sums to buy the world’s most advanced war-fighting systems, most of them from the United States. Iran, by contrast, has been under heavy sanctions for decades. Its army is not much better equipped than it was during the Iran-Iraq War 30 years ago.

The confrontation becomes equalized, however, when motivation is factored into the equation. Saudis are notorious for their aversion to sacrifice. They hire foreigners to do most of the kingdom’s daily labor. Few Saudi men would dream of risking their lives for their country. For its war in Yemen, Saudi Arabia has recruited hundreds of mercenaries from Colombia. The Saudis have enough air power to devastate almost any country on earth. Wars are won on the ground, though, and there Saudi Arabia is pitifully weak.
The Iranians are different. If they believe their faith is under threat, they will pour onto battlefields even if they have to fight with slingshots. That difference in patriotic fervor makes sense. Saudi Arabia has existed for 83 years, Iran for more than 2,500.

Saudi Arabia’s decision to provoke this crisis was aimed at least in part at forcing the United States to take sides. Supporting Saudi Arabia over Iran, however, would be a way of harming our own interests.

Why does Iran make more long-term sense as a partner? Countries should fulfill two qualifications to become U.S. partners. Their interests should roughly coincide with ours, and their societies should look something like our own. On both counts, Iran comes out ahead.

Iran and the United States are bound above all by their shared loathing of Sunni terror groups. In addition, Iran is closely tied to large Shiite populations in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Bahrain. It can influence those populations in ways no one else can. If it is brought into regional security arrangements, it will have a greater interest in stability—partly because that would increase its own influence in the region.

By almost any standard, Iranian society is far closer to ours than Saudi society. Years of religious rule have made Iranians highly secular. The call to prayer is almost never heard in Iran. In Saudi Arabia, by contrast, it dominates life, and all shops must close during designated prayer breaks. Iranian women are highly dynamic and run many businesses. Saudi women may not even drive or travel without a man’s permission. The 9/11 attacks were planned and carried out mainly by Saudis; Tehran was the only capital in the Muslim world where people gathered spontaneously after the attacks for a candlelight vigil in sympathy with the victims.

Turning abruptly away from Saudi Arabia, however, would also be unwise.
Both countries have long been hostile to American interests—Iran publicly, Saudi Arabia privately, while pretending to be our friend. Americans have come to understand that Saudi Arabia is a harshly repressive state. Even worse, Saudis are the key financiers of the Islamic State, Al Qaeda, and the Taliban. They sponsor “charities” that build mosques and religious schools where boys in dozens of countries learn to chant the Koran and hate America. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton asserted in a 2009 cable that “donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.”

Those terrorist groups are America’s principal enemy in the Middle East. Iran hates them even more than we do, since they want to kill every Shiite. Saudis support and promote them. Any policy to address the current crisis must recognize this essential reality.

At the same time, however, Saudi Arabia holds one of the keys necessary to unlocking a new future for the Middle East. We can turn that key only by working with Saudi Arabia despite all it has done to undermine our national security. Saudi-bashing is richly justified and emotionally satisfying, but would not be a wise basis for American foreign policy. Precisely because Saudi Arabia has been the principal supporter of abhorrent terror gangs, it has a measure of influence over them. No Christian or Shi’ite Muslim ever will.

Anyone who embraces Enlightenment values has reason to detest Saudi Arabia. The fact that it is pouring gasoline over the flaming Middle East is yet another reason. Detesting a country, however, is not reason enough to push it away. Diplomacy has nothing to do with affection. It is about advancing national interests.

The United States advanced its interests by reaching a nuclear deal with Iran last year. It will further advance them by building on that agreement to improve relations with Iran. We cannot, however, turn our back on Saudi Arabia, because both countries are the main drivers of sectarian hatred in the Middle East. Some kind of understanding between them is a prerequisite to a calmer Middle East. Encouraging it should be a key goal of American diplomacy. Iran makes a better partner than Saudi Arabia—but we should do whatever possible to avoid having to make that choice.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/saudi-arabia-iran-213504#ixzz3wNwgqU6u



gatorfan



2seaoat wrote:It means that the Saudi execution of the cleric was an attempt to escalate the violence.  However, Iran is smart.   Their militia is winning in Iraq over the Saudi backed ISIS and Iran knows that attrition is to their advantage......they will have full contact pressure on the Saudis, but will not foolishly provoke a stupid attack which gives America no choice.......they are playing many moves ahead, and again.......there is no timetable......it is the Saudis who are increasingly getting into a desperate state as ISIS is failing and shia influence grows.

The Iranians, Chinese, and Putin are playing Obama like a fiddle. It's obvious they do not respect him and given his weak and in some cases, nonexistent foreign policy there is no reason for them to do so.

Whoever sits in the White House next is going to have their job cut out for them trying to resolve all of the issues left hanging through inaction and misguided action.

Guest


Guest

I can't think of a single nation or relation in the ME, asia, africa, or europe that is better than when he took office.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

PkrBum wrote:I can't think of a single nation or relation in the ME, asia, africa, or europe that is better than when he took office.

Which of those nations were better after 8 years of Bush?

Sal

Sal

Obama is President of the United States, and the U.S. is doing much, much better than it was when he took office.

A simple "thank you" would suffice.

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Bob wrote:
2seaoat wrote:That is also absolutely and positively A FACT.  And an indisputable fact (except seaoat will find a way to dispute it).  lol

Nope......there are some who buy the Israeli position and only a fool would dispute that fact, but that fact has become abundantly clear to be a minority position in this Administration.

Virtually every player in this government,  including obama [Obama],  has stated that the United States will NOT tolerate Iran becoming a nuclear power.

If war breaks out between Iran,  this government's enemy,  and Saudi Arabia,  this government's ally,  it will provide this government the perfect opportunity to obliterate Iran's attempts to become a nuclear power.  There is no way in hell this government will stand by and let Iran defeat it's most prized ally in the Middle East (other than Israel).  To believe it would is almost childishly naive.

Semi-retired President Obama will do nothing.  He is an incompetent and feckless "leader".

In violation of the UNSIGNED agreement between Iraq and President Obama, Iran have launched two ballistic missiles in violation of UN resolutions and this week launched unguided missiles which landed within 1,500 yards of US Navy ships and private freighters and tankers.

Washington was ready to reimpose sanctions and...not surprising, President Obama stopped that in its tracks.  Iraq continues their march toward a nuclear weapon and President Obama simply hopes he can make it to the finish line of his failed administration.

Bullshit.  If Obama could run again he'd win again .. after all, obviously the best the republicans can do right now is offer Trump.  LOL  

Sorry you're still on the heavy meds.

August 10, 2015, 10:45 am
Poll: Obama wouldn't win third term
By Neetzan Zimmerman

In a Monmouth University poll released Monday morning, President Obama’s claim that he could win a third White House term if he were to run in 2016 is put to the test — and fails.

"Under our Constitution, I cannot run again,” Obama told members of the African Union during a recent trip to Ethiopia, adding, “I think if I ran, I could win.”

According to the Monmouth poll, Obama should be glad he can’t run again.

Sixty-eight percent of respondents said they would vote for someone else, while only 26 percent said they would be willing to give the president four more years.

Though an understandably low number of Republicans would cast their vote for a third Obama term (5 percent), he polls at just 23 percent with independents. Even Democrats aren’t so sure they’d want Obama back in the Oval Office: 43 percent would vote for another candidate.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/250715-poll-obama-wouldnt-win-third-term

One poll.  One.  Still, you might be right.  But even if Obama wouldn't win again, so fucking what?  Shit, ANY democrat would win against the crazies the republicans are offering right now!  Are you insane enough to believe the moderates of this country, democrat or republican, are going to accept Ted "Let's shut down the government if it won't do what we true, evangelical Christians want," Cruz?  Or Marco "I love everything about the Tea Party" Rubio? Or Carly "It's a fact, Planned Parenthood has been processing fetuses to be used as hamburger meat" Fiorina? Or Chris "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it," Christy?  

And this is what the republicans are offering moderate America, as opposition to Trump?  (I left out Jeb "the war was wrong but my brother is always right" Bush, because the republicans have left him out.)  

Where is George Carlin when we need him?  Reality!

My Socialist/Communist good friend Wordslinger does some simple fact checking, learns that I am RIGHT AGAIN, and loses control. Increasingly, he is becoming my very best foil. Keep up the good work my good friend!

The best possible thing is about to happen in the MidEast -- Saudi Arabia vs. Iran - Page 2 Name%20calling%202_zpsg3sqlnrp

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Salinsky wrote:Obama is President of the United States, and the U.S. is doing much, much better than it was when he took office.

Really?

Well, if you ask me ... and in the words of a great American bard .... "we're rollin' downhill like a snowball headed for hell"

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