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Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges

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EmeraldGhost
2seaoat
TEOTWAWKI
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/politics/scalia-black-scientists-scotus/index.html


I had to read this a few times just to make sure that Scalia was actually saying, openly, what I thought he was saying.  

GOP 2016! Going all-in on Donald Trump and white supremacy!


Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges Swtmvsx



Washington (CNN)Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia raised eyebrows on Wednesday with a comment he made during the court's hearing of an affirmative action case, in which he seemed to suggest some African-Americans belong in lesser colleges.

Scalia was questioning the attorney for the University of Texas, which is defending its use of race as a factor in admissions in the case before the court.

"There are those who contend that it does not benefit African-Americans to get them into the University of Texas where they do not do well, as opposed to having them go to a less-advanced school, a less -- a slower-track school where they do well," Scalia said, according to the transcript. "One of the briefs pointed out that most of the black scientists in this country don't come from schools like the University of Texas."

Supreme Court divided in affirmative action case

The attorney, Gregory G. Garre, tried to interject, but Scalia continued.

"They come from lesser schools where they do not feel that they're being pushed ahead in classes that are too fast for them," Scalia said. "I'm just not impressed by the fact that the University of Texas may have fewer. Maybe it ought to have fewer. And maybe some -- you know, when you take more, the number of blacks, really competent blacks, admitted to lesser schools, turns out to be less."

Garre said the court had already rejected that argument in the past.

"I don't think the solution to the problems with student body diversity can be to set up a system in which not only are minorities going to separate schools, they're going to inferior schools," Garre told Scalia.

The case, Fisher v. Texas, was heard for the second time on Wednesday, and all signs pointed again to a deeply divided court. The first time the case was heard, the justices made a narrow ruling that sent the case back down to the lower courts.

The arguments came as colleges across the country are confronting racial tensions and unrest over perceived unequal treatment of students.

Carrie Severino, chief counsel for the conservative Judicial Crisis Network and a former clerk to Justice Clarence Thomas, defended Scalia, saying he wasn't implying black students are inferior.

"What Justice Scalia is referring to is the 'mismatch theory' popularized by Stuart Taylor and Richard Sander in their book," she said. "The idea is that if a student is admitted to a school they are not academically prepared for then they will not perform up to their own potential. This is a theory -- contested of course -- but I don't want people to get the idea that it means that all black students are not as smart as white students, or even that they are not as well prepared across the board."

"Students with an interest in science who are admitted to a very competitive school via a large preference tend to drop out of the sciences at a much higher rate than do otherwise similar students who attend somewhat less competitive programs," the brief said. "Competition mismatch appears to be a major factor in the low rate at which African-American students become scientists, despite high levels of interest in the sciences."


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Markle

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boards of FL wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/politics/scalia-black-scientists-scotus/index.html


I had to read this a few times just to make sure that Scalia was actually saying, openly, what I thought he was saying.  

GOP 2016!  Going all-in on Donald Trump and white supremacy!



Washington (CNN)Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia raised eyebrows on Wednesday with a comment he made during the court's hearing of an affirmative action case, in which he seemed to suggest some African-Americans belong in lesser colleges.

Scalia was questioning the attorney for the University of Texas, which is defending its use of race as a factor in admissions in the case before the court.

"There are those who contend that it does not benefit African-Americans to get them into the University of Texas where they do not do well, as opposed to having them go to a less-advanced school, a less -- a slower-track school where they do well," Scalia said, according to the transcript. "One of the briefs pointed out that most of the black scientists in this country don't come from schools like the University of Texas."

Supreme Court divided in affirmative action case

The attorney, Gregory G. Garre, tried to interject, but Scalia continued.

"They come from lesser schools where they do not feel that they're being pushed ahead in classes that are too fast for them," Scalia said. "I'm just not impressed by the fact that the University of Texas may have fewer. Maybe it ought to have fewer. And maybe some -- you know, when you take more, the number of blacks, really competent blacks, admitted to lesser schools, turns out to be less."

Garre said the court had already rejected that argument in the past.

"I don't think the solution to the problems with student body diversity can be to set up a system in which not only are minorities going to separate schools, they're going to inferior schools," Garre told Scalia.

The case, Fisher v. Texas, was heard for the second time on Wednesday, and all signs pointed again to a deeply divided court. The first time the case was heard, the justices made a narrow ruling that sent the case back down to the lower courts.

The arguments came as colleges across the country are confronting racial tensions and unrest over perceived unequal treatment of students.

Carrie Severino, chief counsel for the conservative Judicial Crisis Network and a former clerk to Justice Clarence Thomas, defended Scalia, saying he wasn't implying black students are inferior.

"What Justice Scalia is referring to is the 'mismatch theory' popularized by Stuart Taylor and Richard Sander in their book," she said. "The idea is that if a student is admitted to a school they are not academically prepared for then they will not perform up to their own potential. This is a theory -- contested of course -- but I don't want people to get the idea that it means that all black students are not as smart as white students, or even that they are not as well prepared across the board."

"Students with an interest in science who are admitted to a very competitive school via a large preference tend to drop out of the sciences at a much higher rate than do otherwise similar students who attend somewhat less competitive programs," the brief said. "Competition mismatch appears to be a major factor in the low rate at which African-American students become scientists, despite high levels of interest in the sciences."

Why do you think being honest and factual is a bad thing.



Last edited by Markle on 12/10/2015, 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

boards of FL

boards of FL

Markle wrote:Why do you think being honest and factual is a bad thing.



Look at that! Even the base is on board!


GOP 2016!


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The sensibilities of the green participation ribbon mentality are very fragile. Please refrain from objectivity.

boards of FL

boards of FL

PkrBum wrote:The sensibilities of the green participation ribbon mentality are very fragile. Please refrain from objectivity.


Look, everyone.  The guy who is only capable of injecting empty rhetoric and then running away from actual discussion is talking about participation ribbons.  The guy lacking in a level of competence that would afford him the ability to participate in online political discussions is talking about participation ribbons.

Here is yours, election-boy.


Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges 4200


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Markle

Markle

boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:Why do you think being honest and factual is a bad thing.

Look at that!  Even the base is on board!  

GOP 2016!  

Do you deny that what he said is TRUE? Keep in mind, life is not fair.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

So .... how come Obama's Occidental College & Harvard records are sealed?

Why can't we know what courses he took, what grades he made, and who paid for his education?

boards of FL

boards of FL

Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:Why do you think being honest and factual is a bad thing.

Look at that!  Even the base is on board!  

GOP 2016!  

Do you deny that what he said is TRUE?  Keep in mind, life is not fair.



Of course I reject Scalia's comments. He said that black people simply aren't fit for elite schools and would be better off in lower quality schools. That's complete bullshit and about as overtly racist as one can get.

Are you honestly telling me, on a public message board, that you agree with his comments?


Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges Bonbon-dbfbe36b2ab7e3e46f8bdbc19fcc3ada


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boards of FL

boards of FL

EmeraldGhost wrote:So .... how come Obama's Occidental College & Harvard records are sealed?

Why can't we know what courses he took, what grades he made, and who paid for his education?



His records aren't "sealed".  They simply have not been publicly released.  But to say that they are "sealed", as if Obama went through some legal process to insure that that information never sees the light of day, that's false.  My college records aren't open to the public, though I haven't "sealed" them.  No one I know's college records are public information, though they haven't "sealed" them.  This idea that Obama's records are "sealed" is essentially red meat being thrown out for low information voters.  Why vote on things like policy when you can instead vote on empty rhetoric like "His rekors r sealeD!!!" and "Benghasi!!!?

And I don't see how that makes Scalia's comments any less racist.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/


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Why should race be considered at all?

Markle

Markle

boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:Why do you think being honest and factual is a bad thing.

Look at that!  Even the base is on board!  

GOP 2016!  

Do you deny that what he said is TRUE?  Keep in mind, life is not fair.

Of course I reject Scalia's comments.  He said that black people simply aren't fit for elite schools and would be better off in lower quality schools.  That's complete bullshit and about as overtly racist as one can get.  

Are you honestly telling me, on a public message board, that you agree with his comments?  

Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges Bonbon-dbfbe36b2ab7e3e46f8bdbc19fcc3ada


Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges 69d74526-818e-455c-b628-ad5ce7381bb2

boards of FL

boards of FL

Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:Why do you think being honest and factual is a bad thing.

Look at that!  Even the base is on board!  

GOP 2016!  

Do you deny that what he said is TRUE?  Keep in mind, life is not fair.

Of course I reject Scalia's comments.  He said that black people simply aren't fit for elite schools and would be better off in lower quality schools.  That's complete bullshit and about as overtly racist as one can get.  

Are you honestly telling me, on a public message board, that you agree with his comments?  

Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges Bonbon-dbfbe36b2ab7e3e46f8bdbc19fcc3ada


Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges 69d74526-818e-455c-b628-ad5ce7381bb2


Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges Running-styles-forrest-gump


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Markle

Markle

boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:Why do you think being honest and factual is a bad thing.

Look at that!  Even the base is on board!  

GOP 2016!  

Do you deny that what he said is TRUE?  Keep in mind, life is not fair.

Of course I reject Scalia's comments.  He said that black people simply aren't fit for elite schools and would be better off in lower quality schools.  That's complete bullshit and about as overtly racist as one can get.  

Are you honestly telling me, on a public message board, that you agree with his comments?  

Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges Bonbon-dbfbe36b2ab7e3e46f8bdbc19fcc3ada


Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges 69d74526-818e-455c-b628-ad5ce7381bb2


Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges Running-styles-forrest-gump

So glad you concede that you are lying about what was said by Justice Scalia.

boards of FL

boards of FL

Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:Why do you think being honest and factual is a bad thing.

Look at that!  Even the base is on board!  

GOP 2016!  

Do you deny that what he said is TRUE?  Keep in mind, life is not fair.

Of course I reject Scalia's comments.  He said that black people simply aren't fit for elite schools and would be better off in lower quality schools.  That's complete bullshit and about as overtly racist as one can get.  

Are you honestly telling me, on a public message board, that you agree with his comments?  

Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges Bonbon-dbfbe36b2ab7e3e46f8bdbc19fcc3ada


Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges 69d74526-818e-455c-b628-ad5ce7381bb2


Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges Running-styles-forrest-gump

So glad you concede that you are lying about what was said by Justice Scalia.




But I didn't concede anything, and I'm not lying about what Scalia said.  Here is the direct quote:

"There are those who contend that it does not benefit African-Americans to get them into the University of Texas where they do not do well, as opposed to having them go to a less-advanced school, a less -- a slower-track school where they do well," Scalia said, according to the transcript. "One of the briefs pointed out that most of the black scientists in this country don't come from schools like the University of Texas."


There it is.  That's a direct quote.


With that said.  I'm actually glad that you responded the way you just did, because I was just talking about this in a different post.  This is is your coping mechanism.  No one wants to admit that they're stupid.  No one wants to admit that they're incompetent.  And yet, some people certainly are.  We have at least four or five on this forum who confirm that every day - yourself included.  Oddly enough, I have noticed this new trend where the incompetents quote someone, and then they interpret that quote in the precise opposite manner as it was intended.

For example.  I just directly answered your question about Scalia.  Your response there was to effectively run away.  You responded with an image, that way you can feel as if you've actually contributed something substantive rather than tuck tail and run, which - again - is what you do here every day.  I point that fact out with my "Run, Forrest!" gif, and your response is to pretend as if I just conceded that I'm lying?  You realize that everyone can see my posts, right?  You realize that when you say "So glad you concede that you are lying about what was said by Justice Scalia.", everyone can clearly see that you are completely full of shit, right?  If you've ever wondered why people constantly refer to you as senile or dumb, that's why, Mr. Realtor.

What's particularly interesting about this is that I have noticed TEO is now doing this as well, and I commented on it here in this thread:

https://pensacoladiscussion.forumotion.com/t23021-the-republican-party-is-ablaze#266776


It must be a miserable life to have to constantly go around telling yourself that reality isn't what it actually is.  I can post a link to a BLS report showing that the unemployment rate has decreased, and your response will predictably be "THANK YOU FOR SHOWING US THAT THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS INCREASING!"   I can post a link showing that GDP expanded 2.1%, and your response will predictably be "THANK YOU FOR SHOWING US THAT WE'RE IN A RECESSION!"  

Both yourself and TEO appear to be trapped in a perpetual state of denial.  You simply cannot handle reality, so you have to reassure yourself that things are precisely the opposite as you actually see them.  For TEO, we haven't seen 9 million jobs added to the economy.  We haven't see GDP expand quarter after quarter for years.  We haven't seen the unemployment rate cut in half from the peak of the recession.  Of course not!  In TEO land, we're a mere days away from martial law!  I tell ya.  It's really happening this time!  This one's for real!  Right?  Well, of course not.   Martial law isn't just around the corner, as TEO would have us beleive.  TEO is simply a senile idiot trying to cope with reality.  And, of course, when someone points that out.... "WELL THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT I'M A GENIUS AND THE SMARTEST PERSON ON THE FORUM!!"

And now here we have Markle exhibiting that same behavior exactly as I have described.   Scalia didn't make overtly racist comments!  Of course not!  Boards of FL just admitted that it was all a lie!  Right?  I mean, right?  Well, no.  Quite the opposite, actually.

Here you are, Markle.  Your rocking chair is over there in the corner.

Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges Bonbon-dbfbe36b2ab7e3e46f8bdbc19fcc3ada


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Markle

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You have no clue as to the damage done by quota's do you?

You lied when you revised what Justice Scalia said to this: He said that black people simply aren't fit for elite schools and would be better off in lower quality schools.

If you are such a rabid supporter of quota's above qualifications, then why not carry it to the NBA?

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Markle wrote:You have no clue as to the damage done by quota's do you?

You lied when you revised what Justice Scalia said to this:  He said that black people simply aren't fit for elite schools and would be better off in lower quality schools.

If you are such a rabid supporter of quota's above qualifications, then why not carry it to the NBA?


Dummy you don't need brains to get into colleges, just loans.....you probably should be tall (Mandingos)for the NBA since baskets are up around 10 ft high....

2seaoat



You have no clue as to the damage done by quota's do you?

The damage of quotas for 100 years after the Civil War meant that talented black and hispanic kids did not have ANY opportunity to attend top educational institutions in some regions of this nation. That damage with quotas over 100 years has resulted in an imperfect system to attempt to rectify the 100 year quota process. It has been hugely successful. I have mentored students from the Illinois math and science academy, and the smartest student I had work on a project was an african american student whose parents were doctors. That student would never have had the opportunity in Birmingham Alabama from 1865 to 1965. If some who are not completely up to the standards of today, it only follows that for a hundred years there were talented people who exceeded the standards but were denied entry. This is not rocket science, and it is far from perfect, but it is a moral choice which I have found has remarkable success over the last fifty years. Fifty years from now and maybe this will all be unnecessary......It still serves a very important purpose today.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

boards of FL wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:So .... how come Obama's Occidental College & Harvard records are sealed?

Why can't we know what courses he took, what grades he made, and who paid for his education?



His records aren't "sealed".  They simply have not been publicly released.  But to say that they are "sealed", as if Obama went through some legal process to insure that that information never sees the light of day, that's false.  My college records aren't open to the public, though I haven't "sealed" them.  No one I know's college records are public information, though they haven't "sealed" them.  This idea that Obama's records are "sealed" is essentially red meat being thrown out for low information voters.  Why vote on things like policy when you can instead vote on empty rhetoric like "His rekors r sealeD!!!" and "Benghasi!!!?

And I don't see how that makes Scalia's comments any less racist.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/


"sealed" "not publicly released" ... same difference. Semantics.

He could release 'em with the stroke of a pen.

He's the freakin' President of the United States. He works for us. We are his employer. We have a right to know .... and I, or one, would like to.

I think all elected officials education records should be fully released.

Whatcha wanna bet they'll never see the light of day? Ever.

boards of FL

boards of FL

EmeraldGhost wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:So .... how come Obama's Occidental College & Harvard records are sealed?

Why can't we know what courses he took, what grades he made, and who paid for his education?



His records aren't "sealed".  They simply have not been publicly released.  But to say that they are "sealed", as if Obama went through some legal process to insure that that information never sees the light of day, that's false.  My college records aren't open to the public, though I haven't "sealed" them.  No one I know's college records are public information, though they haven't "sealed" them.  This idea that Obama's records are "sealed" is essentially red meat being thrown out for low information voters.  Why vote on things like policy when you can instead vote on empty rhetoric like "His rekors r sealeD!!!" and "Benghasi!!!?

And I don't see how that makes Scalia's comments any less racist.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/


"sealed" "not publicly released" ... same difference.  Semantics.

He could release 'em with the stroke of a pen.

He's the freakin' President of the United States.  He works for us.  We are his employer.  We have a right to know .... and I, or one, would like to.  

I think all elected officials education records should be fully released.

Whatcha wanna bet they'll never see the light of day?  Ever.


Yes. I suppose he could.

Let's say that he did exactly that. How would that information influence us today in any way? How would it really be material in any sense? He's a lame duck president at this point. I think that vetting isn't necessarily the best strategy seeing as how we're in election season in a lame duck presidency.


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Markle

Markle

boards of FL wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:So .... how come Obama's Occidental College & Harvard records are sealed?

Why can't we know what courses he took, what grades he made, and who paid for his education?

His records aren't "sealed".  They simply have not been publicly released.  But to say that they are "sealed", as if Obama went through some legal process to insure that that information never sees the light of day, that's false.  My college records aren't open to the public, though I haven't "sealed" them.  No one I know's college records are public information, though they haven't "sealed" them.  This idea that Obama's records are "sealed" is essentially red meat being thrown out for low information voters.  Why vote on things like policy when you can instead vote on empty rhetoric like "His rekors r sealeD!!!" and "Benghasi!!!?

And I don't see how that makes Scalia's comments any less racist.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/


"sealed" "not publicly released" ... same difference.  Semantics.

He could release 'em with the stroke of a pen.

He's the freakin' President of the United States.  He works for us.  We are his employer.  We have a right to know .... and I, or one, would like to.  

I think all elected officials education records should be fully released.

Whatcha wanna bet they'll never see the light of day?  Ever.

Yes.  I suppose he could.  

Let's say that he did exactly that.  How would that information influence us today in any way?  How would it really be material in any sense?  He's a lame duck president at this point.  I think that vetting isn't necessarily the best strategy seeing as how we're in election season in a lame duck presidency.

YOU'RE afraid that it will solidly confirm that semi-retired President Obama is indeed, positively unqualified to be President of the United states much less anything else.

George W. Bush wasn’t the best college student around. But at least he’s been up front about his college record, unlike Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and Sarah Palin. John McCain, on the other hand, has been quite upfront about the fact that he was ranked 894 out of 899 in the Naval Academy.

COLLEGE TRANSCRIPTS OF GEORGE W. BUSH SHOW C AVERAGE

In fact, George W. Bush has openly released his Yale University undergraduate transcript. As you can see, Bush truly was a solid C student. He never got an A in anything the entire time that he was in college (although he never got a D or an F either). Bush almost got As in history and anthropology, and earned a high pass in Japanese, of all things. However, he received a 71 and a 73 respectively in his two political science and government classes. His lowest grade was in sociology — a 70.

Bush earned a 1206 on the SATs, which is pretty good. These days, though, a 1200 won’t get you anywhere near Yale, so I wonder how true that was back then, and how much Bush’s father’s connections had to do with getting him in.

http://www.eduinreview.com/blog/2008/10/college-transcripts-of-george-w-bush-show-c-average/

The mention of the SAT score is that since George Bush, and for that matter, since I took the SAT exams the score has been "re-centered". Too many students were getting lower and lower scores on the exam so, rather than blame the method of education, they give extra points to the math and English scores thus increasing them...artificially.



Last edited by Markle on 12/13/2015, 2:05 am; edited 1 time in total

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


George W Bush did not release his records until they were leaked by the New Yorker in 2004. He then redacted the grades, although they had already been published. He was a C- student and a legacy. Other Presidents have not released their academic records to the public. There is no reason to do so. The entire discussion is moot.

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote:You have no clue as to the damage done by quota's do you?

The damage of quotas for 100 years after the Civil War meant that talented black and hispanic kids did not have ANY opportunity to attend top educational institutions in some regions of this nation.   That damage with quotas over 100 years has resulted in an imperfect system to attempt to rectify the 100 year quota process.  It has been hugely successful.   I have mentored students from the Illinois math and science academy, and the smartest student I had work on a project was an african american student whose parents were doctors.  That student would never have had the opportunity in Birmingham Alabama from 1865 to 1965.   If some who are not completely up to the standards of today, it only follows that for a hundred years there were talented people who exceeded the standards but were denied entry.   This is not rocket science, and it is far from perfect, but it is a moral choice which I have found has remarkable success over the last fifty years.  Fifty years from now and maybe this will all be unnecessary......It still serves a very important purpose today.

Once again...this is 2015.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Side note: Between 1857 and 1950 there were 4,000 lynchings of African-American men.


Let's keep the blacks out of good schools, so we can continue to rule ...

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:Side note:  Between 1857 and 1950 there were 4,000 lynchings of African-American men.

Let's keep the blacks out of good schools, so we can continue to rule ...

Again, LYING about what was said by Justice Scalia.  All Progressives have is to twist the truth in the hopes they will be believed.

Once again...
Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges 69d74526-818e-455c-b628-ad5ce7381bb2



Last edited by Markle on 12/13/2015, 3:30 am; edited 1 time in total

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:Side note:  Between 1857 and 1950 there were 4,000 lynchings of African-American men.

Let's keep the blacks out of good schools, so we can continue to rule ...

How many blacks have murdered blacks since or say...1960?
Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges Lynchings%20too_zpsgt7u5miq

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