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Help me understand

+6
Joanimaroni
Markle
EmeraldGhost
Sal
Hospital Bob
2seaoat
10 posters

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1Help me understand Empty Help me understand 12/3/2015, 12:58 pm

2seaoat



We have spent trillions on waging war on terrorism. We have almost doubled LEO budgets since 2001. The streets were full of police cars, armored vehicles, and armed police who responded immediately. There are reports that there were people with conceal and carry weapons at the scene, but did not exchange fire because they were uncertain...............all the things which were going to make Americans safer. Yet, 14 people easily died despite almost twenty years of emptying the American treasury seeking security which is a total illusion.

Fact.......anybody can easily get a gun in America. Fact.......anybody with a gun can easily kill innocents. We can NEVER stop the killing. So during the last twenty years mass killings have exploded the more we seek security, the more die. During this same period Americans have more guns than ever and the profits have never been higher for gun merchants. Can we not find a path to common sense safety standards with guns? Cars are safer today and fewer people die from auto deaths than fifty years ago. Do people still die from car accidents? yes. Have we restricted folks with making them wear a seat belt? yes. Why can we not come up with common sense gun safety standards which lower gun deaths?

2Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 1:12 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote: Cars are safer today and fewer people die from auto deaths than fifty years ago.   Do people still die from car accidents?  yes.   Have we restricted folks with making them wear a seat belt?  yes.   Why can we not come up with common sense gun safety standards which lower gun deaths?

They were building bombs in their apartment.  They weren't doing that for no reason.

Here's my guess.  What happened yesterday was actually just an inadvertent act.  Something prematurely triggered this nutjob off at that Christmas party and hopefully we'll find out what that was once we hear from the eyewitness survivors.  And then he leaves the party,  goes home,  gets his Saudi wife and him dressed up in paramilitary gear and grabs the guns and goes back to wreak havoc on the party.  BUT,  that wasn't his original goal.   If it was then he likely would have become a martyr while doing it.  But he wanted to escape.  Why?  So he could get his hands on those bombs and accomplish the original goal which would have been his martyrdom.
If he hadn't been triggered off prematurely,  what happened yesterday would not have happened.  The Flying Spaghetti Monster only knows what he would have blown up with those bombs and how many innocent people he would have taken down when he did.

3Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 1:17 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Remember,  it was when the older Tsarnaev brother traveled abroad to his muslim origins is when he really got radicalized.

Maybe the wife this one found in Saudi Arabia and whoever she was associated with played a role in his radicalization too.

4Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:09 pm

2seaoat



A criminal conspiracy. Common criminals. They were caught. Yet, today Ted Cruz wants to declare war on somebody. To put boots on the ground and put Americans in the Middle East, and so it goes. Anybody can get a gun. Anybody can kill someone.....and so it goes. The shrill cry of folks wanting to spend another five trillion and all it takes is somebody getting a gun and killing someone to set off the same fear.......yet one thousand fold die from senseless gun violence in America, and we sit idle, but the thought that we can feed MIC and invade and kill innocents......that is rational?

5Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:21 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:A criminal conspiracy.  Common criminals.  

Yes everyone who has ever committed an act of terror is of course also a criminal.
We get that,  seaoat.  lol

6Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:23 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Now we're learning the woman came here on a Pakistani visa.  Which of course has no bearing on this whatsoever.  We need to concentrate on the "commonality" of this crime.  lol

7Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:25 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Of course we're overlooking one distinct possibility,  seaoat.  Both of these characters could have been influenced by the racist elevator music and Bill O'Reilly is concealing that from us.

8Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:27 pm

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:Now we're learning the woman came here on a Pakistani visa.  Which of course has no bearing on this whatsoever.  We need to concentrate on the "commonality" of this crime.  lol

Well, there certainly is one "commonality" that this crime shares with every other mass shooting that has happened in this country.

But, we don't want to talk about that.

9Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:29 pm

2seaoat



Ok, Bob.......Let's follow your subtle logic. We can save lives if we only stop ALL visas. Nobody from any foreign country can come into this country. 750 dead from terrorism since 9-12, and lets go for three years without anybody coming to this country, and how would that impact the eighty people a day who are dying from guns? Help me now? You think our threat is from abroad, so we simply stop people coming into America.......five hundred times the number of victims of terrorism die every week, and you think the threat is from abroad.

10Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:34 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:Ok, Bob.......Let's follow your subtle logic.   We can save lives if we only stop ALL visas.  

That's exactly what I said.  We need to stop all visas.  That's my whole position on this.  Visas committed this common crime.  lol

11Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:34 pm

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Help me understand too.   Haven't been following all the media on this much today so forgive me if the answers to some of this are already out there.

This Farook guy ... he attended the office party, got mad, went home, gathered up his wife, two semiautomatic rifles, a buttload of ammo, pipe bombs, changed into tactical clothing, etc .... all in the space of 15 minutes?    I can't even run down to the convenience store 4 miles down the road, pick up some cigars, and make it home in 15 minutes.

When did he & his wife drop the baby off at his mothers .... before he went to the party?   Or after he left the party & went & got his wife & arsenal?

Could it be more he went into the party to do a reconnaissance, made some planned angry anti-western/christian statements, went out into the parking lot & gave a couple other already geared-up jihadists who were waiting out there the high-sign & they went in & did the deed?  Or maybe they were waiting nearby down the street.  (the shooters were supposedly wearing masks, can anybody actually ID them as the shooters at the office party?)

Another thing:
So ... police set up surveillance on a townhouse in Redlands pursuant to a tip after the shooting, saw the SUV leave, followed & pulled it over & the shootout ensued.    Now what I heard this morning is that this Farook guy & his bride had their own single-family residence in another area they lived in.   So whose townhouse was this?    

Who was the vehicle registered to?   If it was Farook's ... how long had he owned it? Do you really need a behemoth SUV like that for a couple with a baby? Interesting it was a large dark-colored SUV .... just like a lot of Feds drive around in. It would blend right in a scene with a ton of LEO presence. Was it a recent purchase/lease. Could the large dark SUV been intentionally used so it would blend in with all the FBI, ICE, ATF, etc large dark unmarked SUV's?

And where were they supposedly going?

And what's up with the 3rd guy they "detained?"   Haven't heard a lot about him?

Could there be some others who were involved in this still on the loose?   No doubt Farook & his wife were in the shoot out with police .... but could it be they were not the actual shooters at the party?   Why go in with a girl when you're doing a man's job? (esp if you are a fundamentalist Muslim)



Last edited by EmeraldGhost on 12/3/2015, 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

12Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:37 pm

2seaoat



Yes everyone who has ever committed an act of terror is of course also a criminal.
We get that, seaoat. lol


We get that......really Bob? When you combine the word war with any object, it usually does not end well. The war on drugs. Spend more money, put everybody in jail for non violent crime, and bankrupt the nation. The war on terror. Spend more money, put American kids in the Middle East to be maimed, and kill innocent civilians.

You do not respond to criminal acts with war. Words matter.

13Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:41 pm

2seaoat



And what's up with the 3rd guy they "detained?

He was just running from the scene. It did provide a light moment at the news conference because he apparently had an outstanding misdemeanor warrant, so he was arrested.

Clearly, this was not spontaneous. Beyond that.....we simply do not have the facts. It was a criminal conspiracy and it was properly handled by the police. We need to stop the subtle Orwellian doublespeak which turns common crimes into some type of war.

14Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:47 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:Yes everyone who has ever committed an act of terror is of course also a criminal.
We get that,  seaoat.  lol


We get that......really Bob?   When you combine the word war with any object, it usually does not end well.  The war on drugs.   Spend more money, put everybody in jail for non violent crime, and bankrupt the nation.   The war on terror.  Spend more money, put American kids in the Middle East to be maimed, and kill innocent civilians.

You do not respond to criminal acts with war.  Words matter.

Seaoat,  who exactly are you talking to?  Do you have me confused with markle?
Remember,  I'm the one who keeps pointing out over and over that hornets sting you when you continually poke sticks into their nests for 60 years. 
I'm not the one who says hornets sting us because "they hate us for our freedoms".  lol

15Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:55 pm

2seaoat



Remember, it was when the older Tsarnaev brother traveled abroad to his muslim origins is when he really got radicalized.

Maybe the wife this one found in Saudi Arabia and whoever she was associated with played a role in his radicalization too.


Problem solved Bob.....nobody can come to America. We will live in peace and security. Masterful........and we did not have to kill innocent civilians. Now the eighty who die a day......ahhhhhhhh our prayers are with them.

16Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 2:59 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:Remember,  it was when the older Tsarnaev brother traveled abroad to his muslim origins is when he really got radicalized.

Maybe the wife this one found in Saudi Arabia and whoever she was associated with played a role in his radicalization too.


Problem solved Bob.....nobody can come to America.

You really need to keep up,  seaoat.  Farook didn't "come to America".
He was born in America and lived in America.
The bigger question would be how many more Americans are potentially going to do what he did.

17Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 3:01 pm

Markle

Markle

Salinsky wrote:
Bob wrote:Now we're learning the woman came here on a Pakistani visa.  Which of course has no bearing on this whatsoever.  We need to concentrate on the "commonality" of this crime.  lol

Well, there certainly is one "commonality" that this crime shares with every other mass shooting that has happened in this country.

But, we don't want to talk about that.

Right, they were all in "safe, gun free zones".

18Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 3:07 pm

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost wrote:Help me understand too.   Haven't been following all the media on this much today so forgive me if the answers to some of this are already out there.

This Farook guy ... he attended the office party, got mad, went home, gathered up his wife, two semiautomatic rifles, a buttload of ammo, pipe bombs, changed into tactical clothing, etc .... all in the space of 15 minutes?    I can't even run down to the convenience store 4 miles down the road, pick up some cigars, and make it home in 15 minutes.

When did he & his wife drop the baby off at his mothers .... before he went to the party?   Or after he left the party & went & got his wife & arsenal?

Could it be more he went into the party to do a reconnaissance, made some planned angry anti-western/christian statements, went out into the parking lot & gave a couple other already geared-up jihadists who were waiting out there the high-sign & they went in & did the deed?  Or maybe they were waiting nearby down the street.  (the shooters were supposedly wearing masks, can anybody actually ID them as the shooters at the office party?)

Another thing:
So ... police set up surveillance on a townhouse in Redlands pursuant to a tip after the shooting, saw the SUV leave, followed & pulled it over & the shootout ensued.    Now what I heard this morning is that this Farook guy & his bride had their own single-family residence in another area they lived in.   So whose townhouse was this?    

Who was the vehicle registered to?   If it was Farook's ... how long had he owned it?   Do you really need a behemoth SUV like that for a couple with a baby?   Interesting it was a large dark-colored SUV .... just like a lot of Feds drive around in.   It would blend right in a scene with a ton of LEO presence.  Was it a recent purchase/lease.  Could the large dark SUV been intentionally used so it would blend in with all the FBI, ICE, ATF, etc large dark unmarked SUV's?

And where were they supposedly going?

And what's up with the 3rd guy they "detained?"   Haven't heard a lot about him?

Could there be some others who were involved in this still on the loose?   No doubt Farook & his wife were in the shoot out with police .... but could it be they were not the actual shooters at the party?   Why go in with a girl when you're doing a man's job? (esp if you are a fundamentalist Muslim)

Ok ... so I found one answer ... the SUV was rented "days" before the shooting. Article did not say by who.

19Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 3:13 pm

2seaoat



You really need to keep up, seaoat. Farook didn't "come to America".
He was born in America and lived in America.
The bigger question would be how many more Americans are potentially going to do what he did.



Not really Bob......it is you who have to keep up. Don't you know that we should register Muslims, and that they do not come from America, and like Catholics in the time of John Kennedy, the pope was controlling catholics and radical Islam is controlling Muslims, so how can a Muslim be an American citizen when they will be registered like a visitor on a Visa.....We already are going to be exporting 11 million people, heck what are a few more Muslims.......how about the real problem. People are dying from gun violence in America and NO attempt has been made to form congressional committees to openly and honestly discuss how this can be reduced.

In Bob's world nobody will be speaking Spanish in a New Mexico restaurant, all those dirty little bags of garbage will be shipped out of this country, and Muslims will be tatooed and sent to camps, because we need to keep up Bob that Muslims need to be registered and lose their rights as citizens because one American a week dies to terrorism since 9-12 and the other five hundred and fifty who die cannot be discussed because we need to feed American wealth to MIC, and the gun merchants.......yep......I need to keep up.

20Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 4:05 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:You really need to keep up,  seaoat.  Farook didn't "come to America".
He was born in America and lived in America.
The bigger question would be how many more Americans are potentially going to do what he did.



Not really Bob......it is you who have to keep up.  Don't you know that we should register Muslims, and that they do not come from America, and like Catholics in the time of John Kennedy, the pope was controlling catholics and radical Islam is controlling Muslims, so how can a Muslim be an American citizen when they will be registered like a visitor on a Visa.....We already are going to be exporting 11 million people, heck what are a few more Muslims.......how about the real problem.   People are dying from gun violence in America and NO attempt has been made to form congressional committees to openly and honestly discuss how this can be reduced.

In Bob's world nobody will be speaking Spanish in a New Mexico restaurant, all those dirty little bags of garbage will be shipped out of this country, and Muslims will be tatooed and sent to camps, because we need to keep up Bob that Muslims need to be registered and lose their rights as citizens because one American a week dies to terrorism since 9-12 and the other five hundred and fifty who die cannot be discussed because we need to feed American wealth to MIC, and the gun merchants.......yep......I need to keep up.

Yep,  all that is my position allright.  You've nailed it.  lol

21Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 4:09 pm

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

A spokeswoman for CAIR was just on Fox News.  She pulled no punches.  She is in total disagreement with you,  seaoat.  Wants American muslims to start speaking out about this insanity same as she's doing.
You do know what CAIR is,  do you not?

22Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 4:27 pm

2seaoat



http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/king-of-coal-don-blankenship-found-guilty-in-deadly-mine-explosion/ar-AAfZoe5?li=BBnb7Kz

I know that not enough of these criminals are finding jail cells why some worry about one death a week.........No wall street criminals......no MIC criminals......No wall street criminals......no environmental criminals......and you are worried about Muslims.

23Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 4:55 pm

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

EmeraldGhost wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:Help me understand too.   Haven't been following all the media on this much today so forgive me if the answers to some of this are already out there.

This Farook guy ... he attended the office party, got mad, went home, gathered up his wife, two semiautomatic rifles, a buttload of ammo, pipe bombs, changed into tactical clothing, etc .... all in the space of 15 minutes?    I can't even run down to the convenience store 4 miles down the road, pick up some cigars, and make it home in 15 minutes.

When did he & his wife drop the baby off at his mothers .... before he went to the party?   Or after he left the party & went & got his wife & arsenal?

Could it be more he went into the party to do a reconnaissance, made some planned angry anti-western/christian statements, went out into the parking lot & gave a couple other already geared-up jihadists who were waiting out there the high-sign & they went in & did the deed?  Or maybe they were waiting nearby down the street.  (the shooters were supposedly wearing masks, can anybody actually ID them as the shooters at the office party?)

Another thing:
So ... police set up surveillance on a townhouse in Redlands pursuant to a tip after the shooting, saw the SUV leave, followed & pulled it over & the shootout ensued.    Now what I heard this morning is that this Farook guy & his bride had their own single-family residence in another area they lived in.   So whose townhouse was this?    

Who was the vehicle registered to?   If it was Farook's ... how long had he owned it?   Do you really need a behemoth SUV like that for a couple with a baby?   Interesting it was a large dark-colored SUV .... just like a lot of Feds drive around in.   It would blend right in a scene with a ton of LEO presence.  Was it a recent purchase/lease.  Could the large dark SUV been intentionally used so it would blend in with all the FBI, ICE, ATF, etc large dark unmarked SUV's?

And where were they supposedly going?

And what's up with the 3rd guy they "detained?"   Haven't heard a lot about him?

Could there be some others who were involved in this still on the loose?   No doubt Farook & his wife were in the shoot out with police .... but could it be they were not the actual shooters at the party?   Why go in with a girl when you're doing a man's job? (esp if you are a fundamentalist Muslim)

Ok ... so I found one answer ... the SUV was rented "days" before the shooting.  Article did not say by who.


Red flags when I heard about the rented large size SUV, dropping off baby, pipe bombs with toy remote control car detonators, and the first victim being jewish.

24Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 5:01 pm

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

The muslim religion/political system is all about death and violence to anyone that disagrees with their warped ideology. They need to be tracked like child molesters...quit coddling them and buckling under their temper tantrums....man-up and kick ass.

25Help me understand Empty Re: Help me understand 12/3/2015, 6:29 pm

polecat

polecat

Bob wrote:Remember,  it was when the older Tsarnaev brother traveled abroad to his muslim origins is when he really got radicalized.

Maybe the wife this one found in Saudi Arabia and whoever she was associated with played a role in his radicalization too.


Who do you think ''radicalized'' Robert Lewis Dear?

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