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For all our conservative knuckle draggers who don't know what democratic socialism is.

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TEOTWAWKI
Wordslinger
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Wordslinger

Wordslinger

"Bernie Sanders is Ayn Rand's worst nightmare: He's changing how we view socialism -- and exposing free market parasites
(Credit: AP/Michael Dwyer)

Since Senator Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., launched his campaign for president this spring, he has gone from being a fringe candidate of the left to a serious challenger of Hillary Clinton, who has long been considered a shoo-in for the Democratic nomination. When Sanders started gaining traction at the beginning of the summer, most shrugged him off as the new Ralph Nader, or even the Ron Paul of the left, an insurgent who would attract a dedicated but slim following.

Today, these comparisons are looking less accurate, and Sanders is no longer a fringe candidate. Last week, the Sanders campaign released its fundraising results for the third quarter of 2015, and not only did it nearly match Clinton’s third quarter results in cash, but broke the fundraising record in small donations. Indeed, the Sanders campaign has reached one million individual donations faster than both of President Obama’s historic campaigns (in 2008, Obama didn’t reach one million until February).

As one would expect, as Sanders has surged, the American right (and center) have gone from ignoring him to attacking him, and the barbs have been predictable indeed. The most common sound something like this: “Socialism has already been tried and it failed,” “There is no free stuff,” “He wants to steal from the job-creators.” Of course, these are familiar attacks that have long wielded against the Democrats, but with a man who does not shun the “socialist” label, they have become even sharper.

First things first: The word “socialism” has become so freely used by the right that it has all but lost the meaning that it once possessed. Since even before the Cold War, the word socialism has been a pejorative in America. When people on the right say, “Socialism has already been tried,” they are by and large thinking of 20th-century communism in the East, i.e., a totalitarian state with a centrally planned economy. If this were the sole definition of socialism, then these anti-socialists would be entirely correct. When considering 20th century communism, it is clear that centrally planned economies without markets do not work in the long run (and black markets become an inevitable feature). At this point in history, markets are necessary for human innovation and wealth creation. But as the economist (and communist, according to Bill O’Reilly) Robert Reich points out his his new book “Saving Capitalism,” the free market vs. government debate is mostly pointless. In order to have a functioning market, there need to be rules, and for rules of the market there needs to be government; the real debate should be whether those rules are working for everyone or just the wealthiest individuals and corporations.

The point is, “socialism” does not necessarily mean centrally planned economies, as most on the right believe. The original definition of socialism was something like this: the collective ownership of the means of production and distribution. In this sense, worker-owned businesses (i.e. worker co-ops) are very “socialistic,” and Sanders has appropriately put forth a plan to increase worker ownership. The word socialism can also mean “Social Democracy” — this is what best describes Bernie Sanders’s philosophy — which involves a market economy with socialistic programs. The most common example of this sort of economic system can be found in the Scandinavian countries, which have hardly “failed.” Indeed, Scandinavian countries have all been previously ranked among the highest in the world when it comes to “ease of doing business,” “global innovation,” and “prosperity.”

The second-most common claim on the right came from the sagging Rand Paul last month, when he said that “Bernie Sanders is offering you free stuff…but guess what, there is no free lunch.” This kind of assumption is not new, and can be traced back to Ronald Reagan and those infamous “welfare queens,” a sad dog-whistle that haunts us to this day. Of course, it’s not about “free stuff,” but fairness. Indeed, when some facts are introduced, this assumption is revealed as a myth that has long been used by the right wing to divide the middle class (particularly along racial lines). Rand Paul seems to be entirely ignorant (willfully, I’m sure) that it is not lazy unemployed people that strain Americas welfare system, but working class people who are not being paid livable wages by corporations. Indeed, this was exactly what was found in a recent study at the University of Berkley California. The Wall Street Journal reports:

“The study found that 56% of federal and state dollars spent between 2009 and 2011 on welfare programs — including Medicaid, food stamps and the Earned Income Tax Credit — flowed to working families and individuals with jobs. In some industries, about half the workforce relies on welfare.”

One of the most notorious of these corporations that doesn’t have to pay its workers living wages and is more or less receiving corporate welfare is McDonald’s. Indeed, if we are keeping with these right wing terms, McDonald’s is one enormous welfare queen. It has previously been estimated that fast-food workers, who are on average 29 years old, receive around $7 billion in public assistance, and McDonald’s even has a resource line (McResource) that assists workers in signing up for assistance programs (so it doesn’t have to pay livable wages). This is also true for other massive corporations like Walmart, which is notoriously low-paying and last year made nearly $16 billion in profit. It is always easier to go after the working class poor than massive corporations who make billions in profit and spend millions on lobbying.
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Socialism is not about “free stuff,” but cracking down on these corporations that exploit their workers and then rely on the government to make sure they don’t starve. It is not about being lazy and slacking off, but about demanding a fair share and getting paid decently for one’s labor — it is yet another right wing fallacy that people get paid what they’re worth, and that only lazy people are poor. Socialism is about working people, not slackers. It is about fighting capitalist realities like the fact that the top 25 hedge fund managers in America make more money than all of the 157,800 kindergarten teachers combined. Are investors who produce no value really worth that much more than teachers?

Needless to say, the myths and attacks on Sanders and “socialism” will only grow more intense in the months to come. Republican politicians tend to agree with Ayn Rand when it comes to working people, i.e. that they are parasites (although they’d never say such a thing out loud). The Sanders campaign is changing how American people view “socialism,” and hopefully, he is also exposing the GOP as the anti-working class party that it truly is."
Clearly, Adolf Hitler (fascist -- like Markle -- ) was anything but a democratic socialist.

Go Bernie, Go!!

Down with Amerika Inc. -- Corporate control of our government through lobbying and campaign financing.

Guest


Guest

Why do leftists continually revise and reinvent terms? Dredge them up and try to spin them into populist think?

Here's a "new" one after you can't shake the rightful and obvious meanings... liberal fascism. Kinda catchy huh?

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Even the USSR had all the socialism it could stand..and China is more capitalist than we are...

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

For all our conservative knuckle draggers who don't know what democratic socialism is. Supercap2

Guest


Guest

My oldest daughter when she was about four told me that she wanted her favorite meal and that was roast. Well that sounded good so I got all of the ingredients and made it for her... she was less than impressed and said that wasn't roast. It was good anyway and she liked it. A week of so later I made lasagna. She burst into joy when I peeled back the foil... ROAST..!! It was cute... but that didn't make it roast.

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:My oldest daughter when she was about four told me that she wanted her favorite meal and that was roast. Well that sounded good so I got all of the ingredients and made it for her... she was less than impressed and said that wasn't roast. It was good anyway and she liked it. A week of so later I made lasagna. She burst into joy when I peeled back the foil... ROAST..!! It was cute... but that didn't make it roast.

I don't doubt for one second that a child that you were raising displayed such difficulty with terminology.

I'm guessing you call her a "food fascist" and sent her to bed without dinner?

Guest


Guest

I don't belong to the bozo club that keeps resurrecting, reinventing, revising, and renaming...

it's the likes of you... a leftist, collectivist, liberal, democrat, progressive, populist, marxist, socialist, communist, fascist.

If your ideology wasn't such a colossal failure that completely ignores human nature you wouldn't need all those labels.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Listen PB, I ran the above quote and definition because it's one you evidently don't understand. Nothing new. Sweden, Denmark and Norway have been running this kind of government --democratic socialist -- since the end of WWII. But you continue to allude in your comments that people like me and Bernie Sanders are pushing for State-owned factories, work quotas, etc. More like what the old Soviet Union had.

Again, the only thing that's new in the term "democratic socialism" is it's newness to dense republicans, like you.

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:
it's the likes of you... a leftist, collectivist, liberal, democrat, progressive, populist, marxist, socialist, communist, fascist.

For all our conservative knuckle draggers who don't know what democratic socialism is. ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fthedrunklibrarian.files.wordpress.com%2F2015%2F03%2Fccz2u

Guest


Guest

What? You only self-identify as half of them so far? Stay tuned comrade.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Democratic socialism= A greed driven uneducated mob of parasitic freeloaders sucking the life out of an economic system by voting themselves largesse from the public coffers .

2seaoat



Why do leftists continually revise and reinvent terms?
Now that is the funniest thing I have read in years. PK has NEVER taken a political philosophy course and has NO idea what he is talking about when using political nomenclature. He revises and twists standard concepts into some new distortion of the true definition. If you understand many concepts are on a spectrum, and that like going to pick out a blue paint for a bathroom, there are many shades of blue, but blue is a primary color. Blue, yellow, and red make up the primary colors, and green, violet, and orange make up secondary colors and they exist on a color wheel spectrum much like a political wheel spectrum. Pk mixes political concepts like a significantly challenged individual at Lowes mixes paint. He argues that a secondary concept like socialism is organic and one dimensional and is a primary color. It is not. It has components of primary colors which may be polar opposite, yet it is a shade of green which has a multitude of shades and mixes of the primary colors.

Bernie Sanders is on that spectrum. FDR was on the Spectrum. Lyndon Johnson was on that Spectrum. Thomas Jefferson was on that Spectrum. Ronald Reagan was on that spectrum, and PK is on the Spectrum.

Now Pk argues that Blue is green, because green has blue in it.......at least he is consistently wrong on political concepts.

Guest


Guest

If anything it's me that works with primary colors... I call things for what they are... period. It's your ilk that likes to make mauves and beiges out of everything... water down terms until they aren't recognizable and are heterogeneous.

Markle

Markle

PkrBum wrote:I don't belong to the bozo club that keeps resurrecting, reinventing, revising, and renaming...

it's the likes of you... a leftist, collectivist, liberal, democrat, progressive, populist, marxist, socialist, communist, fascist.

If your ideology wasn't such a colossal failure that completely ignores human nature you wouldn't need all those labels.

You're 100% correct. The Progressive/Socialist here are like any of the others in history. Their continuous whine is that "well, Socialism has always failed in the past because it WAS NOT DONE RIGHT".

They, being of superior intellect and knowledge than anyone ever in the past, know how to do it right.

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:Listen PB, I ran the above quote and definition because it's one you evidently don't understand.  Nothing new.  Sweden, Denmark and Norway have been running this kind of government --democratic socialist -- since the end of WWII.  But you continue to allude in your comments that people like me and Bernie Sanders are pushing for State-owned factories, work quotas, etc. More like what the old Soviet Union had.

Again, the only thing that's new in the term "democratic socialism" is it's newness to dense republicans, like you.  

What my far left Socialist/Communist good friend Wordslinger always ignores when touting Sweden, Denmark and Norway is that they have huge incomes from natural resources. For tiny countries, they have huge income from oil and gas in the North Sea and seafood from the North Sea. They even sell surplus energy from hydro-power to other European countries.

ALL those countries combined barely make up the population of one of our states. Yes, that makes a huge difference.

Moreover, the residents of those countries have no aspirations or goals above where they are born. They have, what is the goal of all Socialists, shared misery. When asked why some poll named them as the happiest people in the world, the individual, and many others said, they had no clue as to why. Maybe it's because we just don't know any better.

THANK GOD we live in a nation where we can and do succeed far, far beyond our own expectations.

For all our conservative knuckle draggers who don't know what democratic socialism is. ClowardPiven

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Listen PB, I ran the above quote and definition because it's one you evidently don't understand.  Nothing new.  Sweden, Denmark and Norway have been running this kind of government --democratic socialist -- since the end of WWII.  But you continue to allude in your comments that people like me and Bernie Sanders are pushing for State-owned factories, work quotas, etc. More like what the old Soviet Union had.

Again, the only thing that's new in the term "democratic socialism" is it's newness to dense republicans, like you.  

What my far left Socialist/Communist good friend Wordslinger always ignores when touting Sweden, Denmark and Norway is that they have huge incomes from natural resources.  For tiny countries, they have huge income from oil and gas in the North Sea and seafood from the North Sea.  They even sell surplus energy from hydro-power to other European countries.

ALL those countries combined barely make up the population of one of our states.  Yes, that makes a huge difference.

Moreover, the residents of those countries have no aspirations or goals above where they are born.  They have, what is the goal of all Socialists, shared misery.  When asked why some poll named them as the happiest people in the world, the individual, and many others said, they had no clue as to why.  Maybe it's because we just don't know any better.

THANK GOD we live in a nation where we can and do succeed far, far beyond our own expectations.

For all our conservative knuckle draggers who don't know what democratic socialism is. ClowardPiven

Fuck your God for forcing the vast majority of Americans into poverty so 1% can have it all. By the way, Jesus cherished the poor more than any other category of society. How DO you and your bloodsucking Oligarchs rationalize hating workers and the poor and calling yourself Christian? We're all ears.

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Listen PB, I ran the above quote and definition because it's one you evidently don't understand.  Nothing new.  Sweden, Denmark and Norway have been running this kind of government --democratic socialist -- since the end of WWII.  But you continue to allude in your comments that people like me and Bernie Sanders are pushing for State-owned factories, work quotas, etc. More like what the old Soviet Union had.

Again, the only thing that's new in the term "democratic socialism" is it's newness to dense republicans, like you.  

What my far left Socialist/Communist good friend Wordslinger always ignores when touting Sweden, Denmark and Norway is that they have huge incomes from natural resources.  For tiny countries, they have huge income from oil and gas in the North Sea and seafood from the North Sea.  They even sell surplus energy from hydro-power to other European countries.

ALL those countries combined barely make up the population of one of our states.  Yes, that makes a huge difference.

Moreover, the residents of those countries have no aspirations or goals above where they are born.  They have, what is the goal of all Socialists, shared misery.  When asked why some poll named them as the happiest people in the world, the individual, and many others said, they had no clue as to why.  Maybe it's because we just don't know any better.

THANK GOD we live in a nation where we can and do succeed far, far beyond our own expectations.

For all our conservative knuckle draggers who don't know what democratic socialism is. ClowardPiven

Fuck your God for forcing the vast majority of Americans into poverty so 1% can have it all.
 
By the way, Jesus cherished the poor more than any other category of society.  How DO you and your bloodsucking Oligarchs rationalize hating workers and the poor and calling yourself Christian?  We're all ears.  

Why do you make such goofy statements and especially with such hate and vitriol?

For all our conservative knuckle draggers who don't know what democratic socialism is. Socialism

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Listen PB, I ran the above quote and definition because it's one you evidently don't understand.  Nothing new.  Sweden, Denmark and Norway have been running this kind of government --democratic socialist -- since the end of WWII.  But you continue to allude in your comments that people like me and Bernie Sanders are pushing for State-owned factories, work quotas, etc. More like what the old Soviet Union had.

Again, the only thing that's new in the term "democratic socialism" is it's newness to dense republicans, like you.  

What my far left Socialist/Communist good friend Wordslinger always ignores when touting Sweden, Denmark and Norway is that they have huge incomes from natural resources.  For tiny countries, they have huge income from oil and gas in the North Sea and seafood from the North Sea.  They even sell surplus energy from hydro-power to other European countries.

ALL those countries combined barely make up the population of one of our states.  Yes, that makes a huge difference.

Moreover, the residents of those countries have no aspirations or goals above where they are born.  They have, what is the goal of all Socialists, shared misery.  When asked why some poll named them as the happiest people in the world, the individual, and many others said, they had no clue as to why.  Maybe it's because we just don't know any better.

THANK GOD we live in a nation where we can and do succeed far, far beyond our own expectations.

For all our conservative knuckle draggers who don't know what democratic socialism is. ClowardPiven

Fuck your God for forcing the vast majority of Americans into poverty so 1% can have it all.
 
By the way, Jesus cherished the poor more than any other category of society.  How DO you and your bloodsucking Oligarchs rationalize hating workers and the poor and calling yourself Christian?  We're all ears.  

Why do you make such goofy statements and especially with such hate and vitriol?  

For all our conservative knuckle draggers who don't know what democratic socialism is. Socialism

It figures ... another cheap shot from the pathetic curmudgeon, rather than deal with the challenge, you diddle up another flatulent cliche. Fact is, you and your swarm of Christian hardcore fundamentalist "money is people" freaks, have as much in common with the historic Jesus, as an ant has with an elephant.

Guest


Guest

Gawd... you leftists are so easily lead around by populist speak. Democratic socialism is just thinly veiled fascism... which progressives were always enamored with as an economic model and the incremental steps to direct socialism/communism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

Democratic socialism is a political ideology advocating a democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system,involving a combination of political democracy with social ownership of the means of production. Sometimes used synonymously with "socialism",the adjective "democratic" is added to distinguish itself from the Marxist–Leninist brand of socialism. [1]

Democratic socialism is distinguished from both the Soviet model of centralized socialism and social democracy. This distinction arose from the authoritarian form of government and centralized economic system that emerged in the Soviet Union during the 20th century. [2] A distinction is also made between democratic socialism and social democracy in that the former is committed to systemic transformation of the economy while the latter is not. [3]

Democratic socialism rejects the social democratic view of reform through state intervention within capitalism,seeing capitalism as inherently incompatible with the democratic values of freedom,equality and solidarity. Democratic socialists believe that the issues inherent to capitalism can only be solved by transitioning from capitalism to socialism, by superseding private property with some form of social ownership,with any attempt to address the economic contradictions of capitalism through reforms only likely to generate more problems elsewhere in the capitalist economy. [4][5]

However,"democratic socialism" is sometimes used as a synonym for social democracy,where "social democracy" usually refers to support for political democracy,regulation of the capitalist economy,and a welfare state. [6]

Democratic socialism is not specifically revolutionary or reformist,as many types of democratic socialism can fall into either category,with some forms overlapping with social democracy. Some forms of democratic socialism accept social democratic reformism to gradually convert the capitalist economy to a socialist one using the pre-existing political democracy,while other forms are revolutionary in their political orientation and advocate for the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie and the capitalist economy. The "democratic" element refers to support for political democracy and/or a multi-party system.

Definition

Democratic socialism is defined as having a socialist economy in which the means of production are socially and collectively owned or controlled alongside a politically democratic system of government.

Some tendencies of democratic socialism advocate for revolution in order to transition to socialism,sharply distinguishing it from social democracy. [7]

For example,Peter Hain classifies democratic socialism,along with libertarian socialism,as a form of anti-authoritarian "socialism from below" (using the term popularised by Hal Draper),in contrast to Stalinism and social democracy,variants of authoritarian state socialism. For Hain,this democratic/authoritarian divide is more important than the revolutionary/reformist divide. [8] In this type of democratic socialism,it is the active participation of the population as a whole,and workers in particular,in the management of economy that characterises democratic socialism,while nationalisation and economic planning (whether controlled by an elected government or not) are characteristic of state socialism. A similar,but more complex,argument is made by Nicos Poulantzas. [9]

Draper himself uses the term "revolutionary-democratic socialism" as a type of socialism from below in his The Two Souls of Socialism. He writes: "the leading spokesman in the Second International of a revolutionary-democratic Socialism-from-Below [was] Rosa Luxemburg,who so emphatically put her faith and hope in the spontaneous struggle of a free working class that the myth-makers invented for her a 'theory of spontaneity'". [10] Similarly,about Eugene Debs,he writes: "'Debsian socialism' evoked a tremendous response from the heart of the people,but Debs had no successor as a tribune of revolutionary-democratic socialism." [11]

In contrast,other tendencies of democratic socialism advocate for socialism that follow a gradual,reformist or evolutionary path to socialism,rather than a revolutionary one. [12] Often,this tendency is invoked to distinguish democratic socialism from Marxist–Leninist socialism,as in Donald Busky's Democratic Socialism: A Global Survey, [13] Jim Tomlinson's Democratic Socialism and Economic Policy: The Attlee Years,1945-1951,Norman Thomas Democratic Socialism: a new appraisal or Roy Hattersley's Choose Freedom: The Future of Democratic Socialism. A variant of this set of definitions is Joseph Schumpeter's argument,set out in Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy (1941),that liberal democracies were evolving from "liberal capitalism" into democratic socialism,with the growth of workers' self-management,industrial democracy and regulatory institutions. [14]

The Democratic Socialists of America defines democratic socialism as a movement to eliminate capitalism by evolving a "social order based on popular control of resources and production."

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Listen PB, I ran the above quote and definition because it's one you evidently don't understand.  Nothing new.  Sweden, Denmark and Norway have been running this kind of government --democratic socialist -- since the end of WWII.  But you continue to allude in your comments that people like me and Bernie Sanders are pushing for State-owned factories, work quotas, etc. More like what the old Soviet Union had.

Again, the only thing that's new in the term "democratic socialism" is it's newness to dense republicans, like you.  

What my far left Socialist/Communist good friend Wordslinger always ignores when touting Sweden, Denmark and Norway is that they have huge incomes from natural resources.  For tiny countries, they have huge income from oil and gas in the North Sea and seafood from the North Sea.  They even sell surplus energy from hydro-power to other European countries.

ALL those countries combined barely make up the population of one of our states.  Yes, that makes a huge difference.

Moreover, the residents of those countries have no aspirations or goals above where they are born.  They have, what is the goal of all Socialists, shared misery.  When asked why some poll named them as the happiest people in the world, the individual, and many others said, they had no clue as to why.  Maybe it's because we just don't know any better.

THANK GOD we live in a nation where we can and do succeed far, far beyond our own expectations.

For all our conservative knuckle draggers who don't know what democratic socialism is. ClowardPiven

Fuck your God for forcing the vast majority of Americans into poverty so 1% can have it all.
 
By the way, Jesus cherished the poor more than any other category of society.  How DO you and your bloodsucking Oligarchs rationalize hating workers and the poor and calling yourself Christian?  We're all ears.  

Why do you make such goofy statements and especially with such hate and vitriol?  

For all our conservative knuckle draggers who don't know what democratic socialism is. Socialism

It figures ... another cheap shot from the pathetic curmudgeon, rather than deal with the challenge, you diddle up another flatulent cliche.  Fact is, you and your swarm of Christian hardcore fundamentalist "money is people" freaks, have as much in common with the historic Jesus, as an ant has with an elephant.

Cheap shot...? It seems that you're the one taking far more than cheap shots with you rant against little ol' me loaded with childish profanities and NO FACTS.

NO FACTS because it pains you greatly that AGAIN, I am 100% right.

You are a great foil though.

Guest


Guest

I guess we know who the knuckle dragging comrades are now... lol. Democratic socialism anyone?

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:I guess we know who the knuckle dragging comrades are now... lol. Democratic socialism anyone?

Laugh Knuckledraggers .. Trump draws 5,000, Bernie draws 25,000. And, Bernie's a democratic socialist. If Bernie gets in, maybe you guys can run off to the UAE. ... LOL

Guest


Guest

Take a careful look again at the description and direct quotes I listed above. Now tell me you truly wish that for us.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:Take a careful look again at the description and direct quotes I listed above. Now tell me you truly wish that for us.


It beats hell out of a system where 1% controls more than 50% now, and intends to control everything. What's strange, is that the system as it stands right now victimizes you as much as everyone else -- yet you can't wait to put your flabby body on the front line in their defense. ...

Guest


Guest

Wordslinger wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Take a careful look again at the description and direct quotes I listed above. Now tell me you truly wish that for us.


It beats hell out of a system where 1% controls more than 50% now, and intends to control everything. What's strange, is that the system as it stands right now victimizes you as much as everyone else -- yet you can't wait to put your flabby body on the front line in their defense. ...

First... I'm not and have never been flabby... not even close. Second... please take a few minutes to really read the post.

I can't imagine that is what you truly believe and would support. Be honest.

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