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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » CLINTON COMES OUT AGAINST KEYSTONE XL PIPELINE

CLINTON COMES OUT AGAINST KEYSTONE XL PIPELINE

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2seaoat
knothead
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knothead

knothead

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/254553-clinton-comes-out-against-keystone-xl


It took her a couple years to know where she stands but I have opposed this from the beginning. At least Hillary let the body politic know where she stands on a current topic . . . . . good call (in my view)!

Guest


Guest

President hillary would break that position... see obama on nafta. She can't be trusted anymore that bush3.

knothead

knothead

PkrBum wrote:President hillary would break that position... see obama on nafta. She can't be trusted anymore that bush3.

Well now you have complicated the narrative by bringing 'trust' into the equation by implying that Hillary is not trustworthy . . . . I get that but tell me and satisfy my own curiosity: who do YOU trust and why?

We have no statesmen today . . . . . all politicians!

2seaoat



Hillary's deception is best represented in her vote on one of the most important bills in the last 25 years on the Bankruptcy Reform Act.......she abstained.......kids cannot discharge a portion of their student loans, and she was the only senator in congress who abstained. That is who Hillary is. She is not a liberal. It is simply stupid to vote against the pipeline, but its politics. She is clearly the most qualified person running for President, but she has all the attributes which want to make people throw up.

Guest


Guest

How can we trust anybody at this point? The pub frontrunners have no record... just like obama. 412 days till election.

knothead

knothead

Gawd, I was in such a good mood and Mr. Oats and Pkr remind me how we are so screwed . . . .

I have disagreed with Oats from the get go about the XL, stupid of me to oppose? I don't think so but I won't open that can of worms because there are two sides of every coin and XL has two distinct points-of-view. Just saying.

Guest


Guest

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/region/3844194-south-dakota-train-derailment-cause-still-unknown

dumpcare



If there are union jobs on the line she'll change her mind.

knothead

knothead

ppaca wrote:If there are union jobs on the line she'll change her mind.

Perhaps but at her peril . . . .

2seaoat



I saw a tanker train carrying ethanol derail and create the largest fish kill in Illinois history. It took the river almost five years to recover. Unlike BP, these bastards paid hardly anything as they argued the large flood which compromised the creek crossing which collapsed(their maintenance duty) was not the cause, but other contaminants. 54 rail tanks and the fire foam pouring into a river system, and an entire eco system destroyed for half a decade.

Sorry, the first leg of the Keystone I drive over at least once a week as it is delivering oil safely for refinement in Illinois. I get tired of people saying that this is an environmental issue which must stop the pipeline. The pipeline already is delivering oil to refineries. The only difference is the use of rail and truck.....safety experts say pipeline is the best way to convey the same. I simply agree with something which is really not in debate...the pipeline is the safest method of conveyance. So to say there is a debate on safety and environmental spill......no. If you want to argue that train and truck jobs will decrease if the pipeline is installed and oil can be delivered cheaper and we need the jobs.......not at the expense of the environment and safety. Yes, this debate is bone chilling stupid.

Now if you want to ban fossil fuels, you have my attention because that is not stupid, just a priority which would never be voted on by the American Public.....so we are left with this silly symbolic debate. Nope, the pipeline already exists. This is simply an expansion.

Guest


Guest

Oh gawd... more anecdotal testimony. Just admit you disagree.

2seaoat



Oh gawd... more anecdotal testimony. Just admit you disagree.


Nope.....I had to pick up dead fish for a week. Have you ever been around 50 acres covered with dead fish in 90 degree sunny weather.......I tried to get to be able to testify in the DNR lawsuit against CSX, but it was a done deal cut in the back room. My photos were on TV.....if you have seen a trophy Walleye rotting in the sun, it is more than disagreement. Ask Knox to post some more information of the derailment he was involved. My grandfather was an engineer for 35 years when he retired in 1960 and he told horror story after horror story of derailments.....pipelines fail also, but statistically to a much lesser extent. There is no debate if safety and the environment are the subject.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

2seaoat wrote:Now if you want to ban fossil fuels, you have my attention because that is not stupid, just a priority which would never be voted on by the American Public.....

Don't be so sure...... The most ardent of the climate change activists want exactly that. Right now they are testing getting the courts to close all federal lands and offshore waters to further oil and gas exploration, the premise being an imminent danger to the Earth's climate.

Those so-called 10-15 year 'tipping points' have set some folks' hair on fire and they are ready to do anything to push their agenda forward.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

knothead

knothead

Mr. Oats, I will not deny the perils of transport of this substance by rail as that  is stipulated . . . . my rebuttal to you remains that the technology of pipeline safety has a long way to go.  It has the potential to cause irrevocable damage to the aquifer(s) because leaks in a pipeline often are not identified until lasting damage to critical water sources (aquifers) could be contaminated.  The pipeline will deliver a highly toxic substance  (goo) to the refineries in Port Arthur which is a tax free zone . . . .  America gets all the risk and gets nothing in return.  Comparing this to the controversial Iranian nuclear deal as a paralell this is the mother of bad agreements . . . . . . if our nation got commensurate remuneration for the risk then we can have that conversation but to placate the Canadian government for the sake of what? Canada sells their oil on the international market and we get what in return? Ask yourself why we would expose ourselves to such risk for absolutely nothing in return . . . . sadly but not unexpectedly it became a political football and here we are.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:Oh gawd... more anecdotal testimony. Just admit you disagree.


Nope.....I had to pick up dead fish for a week. Have you ever been around 50 acres covered with dead fish in 90 degree sunny weather.......I tried to get to be able to testify in the DNR lawsuit against CSX, but it was a done deal cut in the back room. My photos were on TV.....if you have seen a trophy Walleye rotting in the sun, it is more than disagreement. Ask Knox to post some more information of the derailment he was involved. My grandfather was an engineer for 35 years when he retired in 1960 and he told horror story after horror story of derailments.....pipelines fail also, but statistically to a much lesser extent. There is no debate if safety and the environment are the subject.

See post#7 dufus.

Markle

Markle

knothead wrote:http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/254553-clinton-comes-out-against-keystone-xl


It took her a couple years to know where she stands but I have opposed this from the beginning. At least Hillary let the body politic know where she stands on a current topic . . . . . good call (in my view)!

She is desperate. She is even losing her base. She said she was opposed to the Keystone Pipeline when the vast majority all VOTERS support building the pipeline.

Her campaign is lost and she is hoping this will pull her out of the fire.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:
knothead wrote:http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/254553-clinton-comes-out-against-keystone-xl


It took her a couple years to know where she stands but I have opposed this from the beginning. At least Hillary let the body politic know where she stands on a current topic . . . . . good call (in my view)!

She is desperate.  She is even losing her base.  She said she was opposed to the Keystone Pipeline when the vast majority all VOTERS support building the pipeline.

Her campaign is lost and she is hoping this will pull her out of the fire.


No sense adding anything to this thread anymore, as the super-intelligent, politically-wise, former supporter of McCain-Palin, Herman Cain, and that 47% Mormon guy has spoken.

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
knothead wrote:http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/254553-clinton-comes-out-against-keystone-xl


It took her a couple years to know where she stands but I have opposed this from the beginning. At least Hillary let the body politic know where she stands on a current topic . . . . . good call (in my view)!

She is desperate.  She is even losing her base.  She said she was opposed to the Keystone Pipeline when the vast majority all VOTERS support building the pipeline.

Her campaign is lost and she is hoping this will pull her out of the fire.


No sense adding anything to this thread anymore, as the super-intelligent, politically-wise, former supporter of McCain-Palin, Herman Cain, and that 47% Mormon guy has spoken.  

In spite of his being a rabid bigot and racist, I still consider Socialist/Communist Wordslinger a friend.

Guest


Guest

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/03/08/obama-did-warren-buffett-railroad-stocks-huge-favo.aspx

The railroad that is by far the leader in crude transportation is Burlington Northern Santa Fe, a subsidiary of Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway (NYSE:BRK-A) (NYSE:BRK-B).

BNSF is the largest carrier of oil from North Dakota's Bakken shale formation, and construction of the Keystone XL pipeline could put a dent in BNSF's $22 billion annual revenue stream. In 2013, $5.7 billion of that came from industrial products, of which a major component is oil. Sales from that segment increased14%, or $700 million, in 2013 due to "significantly higher petroleum products volumes." Canadian National Railway and Canadian Pacific Railway have also been big beneficiaries of the political red tape, as they are the major shippers on the Canadian side.

Berkshire also benefits from the Keystone XL standoff via another subsidiary, Union Tank Car, which makes freight cars designed to haul crude oil. That company has been operating at full capacity in recent years, producing 6,240 cars annually amid excess industry demand from the shale boom. Buffett also said in his letter to share holders last year that BNSF would add 5,000 tank cars to its fleet, evidence that demand is still growing for crude rail shipments.

2seaoat



The environmental argument of damage to the water table is a red herring. Why is the Illinois water table less important than Western States? Clearly, this entire environmental debate has been backed by big money which wants the less safe truck and rail transport which makes them more profits. Some clever folks fired up this red herring to their advantage to make increased profits why they destroy our environment with more and more spills and accidents based on accidents. When you have seen first hand the incredible environmental damage from rail transport, you have a tendency not to be complacent. Corruption is in full effect, and Hillary is quite adept in taking advantage from the same. The pipeline has existed for almost eight years now without spill, yet all over the country accidents continue. I will never forgive CSX for their drive for profits over proper maintenance, and the ironic thing is that ethanol was always the alternative to dirty gas, oil, and coal, yet it killed a river for almost a half decade......and it is still not 100% recovered.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
knothead wrote:http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/254553-clinton-comes-out-against-keystone-xl


It took her a couple years to know where she stands but I have opposed this from the beginning. At least Hillary let the body politic know where she stands on a current topic . . . . . good call (in my view)!

She is desperate.  She is even losing her base.  She said she was opposed to the Keystone Pipeline when the vast majority all VOTERS support building the pipeline.

Her campaign is lost and she is hoping this will pull her out of the fire.


No sense adding anything to this thread anymore, as the super-intelligent, politically-wise, former supporter of McCain-Palin, Herman Cain, and that 47% Mormon guy has spoken.  

In spite of his being a rabid bigot and racist, I still consider Socialist/Communist Wordslinger a friend.


Golly, that's really swell of you Semi-sane "I know NOSSING!" Markle. I cherish your respect and admiration.

knothead

knothead

2seaoat wrote:The environmental argument of damage to the water table is a red herring.  Why is the Illinois water table less important than Western States?  Clearly, this entire environmental debate has been backed by big money which wants the less safe truck and rail transport which makes them more profits.  Some clever folks fired up this red herring to their advantage to make increased profits why they destroy our environment with more and more spills and accidents based on accidents.   When you have seen first hand the incredible environmental damage from rail transport, you have a tendency not to be complacent.  Corruption is in full effect, and Hillary is quite adept in taking advantage from the same.   The pipeline has existed for almost eight years now without spill, yet all over the country accidents continue.  I will never forgive CSX for their drive for profits over proper maintenance, and the ironic thing is that ethanol was always the alternative to dirty gas, oil, and coal, yet it killed a river for almost a half decade......and it is still not 100% recovered.


Over time pipelines corrode and although it may take years to leak, leak they will and there is no firewall to detect these leaks when they do occur. That said CSX, UP, BNSF and NS are all multibillion dollar enterprises. They dance to the tune of the FRA and DOT who places safety thresholds on the design of higher safety standards that certainly must be imposed. When Fred Levin nailed the CSX on their lack of maintenance on their right-of-ways and won a $52M settlement back in the 70's the company responded with installation of CWR (continuous welded rail), elevated standards of tank car design mandated by the FRA to place head shields and locking couplers. Accidents began to drop. This is a process that is currently underway to evaluate safer tank cars design in conjunction with the FRA and will be accompanied by lower speed restrictions in curves. Accidents have always happened but these companies respond to catastrophic events by avoiding more of the same by funding upgrades and I am confident that is going on at this moment.

2seaoat



http://www.economics21.org/commentary/pipelines-safer-rail-transportation-oil-gas

By a factor of four, pipelines are safer based on the volume of product transported. There is no debate. Just big money finding useful interests groups to confuse people about the truth. The Keystone Pipeline is right environmental choice for transport of oil and protection of the environment.

Now if somebody wants to make the argument that stopping the pipeline will stop carbon fuel based products from reaching the market, or will make it more expensive therefore protecting the environment.......talk to Z, because every carbon based product will reach the marketplace over the next 200 years despite improvements in renewable alternatives.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

The crux of this whole matter is climate change activism weighing-in against Canada's development of the Athabasca oil sands in Alberta.

The Canadians might hear their arguments one day, but not until they have recovered all of the 166 billion barrels of recoverable bitumen within the resource--scheduled to grow to over 3 million barrels per day by 2020.

If they cannot sell this fuel in the U.S., the Chinese stand ready to buy up every drop. It will not be without a market.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Markle

Markle

knothead wrote:
2seaoat wrote:The environmental argument of damage to the water table is a red herring.  Why is the Illinois water table less important than Western States?  Clearly, this entire environmental debate has been backed by big money which wants the less safe truck and rail transport which makes them more profits.  Some clever folks fired up this red herring to their advantage to make increased profits why they destroy our environment with more and more spills and accidents based on accidents.   When you have seen first hand the incredible environmental damage from rail transport, you have a tendency not to be complacent.  Corruption is in full effect, and Hillary is quite adept in taking advantage from the same.   The pipeline has existed for almost eight years now without spill, yet all over the country accidents continue.  I will never forgive CSX for their drive for profits over proper maintenance, and the ironic thing is that ethanol was always the alternative to dirty gas, oil, and coal, yet it killed a river for almost a half decade......and it is still not 100% recovered.


Over time pipelines corrode and although it may take years to leak, leak they will and there is no firewall to detect these leaks when they do occur.  That said CSX, UP, BNSF and NS are all multibillion dollar enterprises.  They dance to the tune of the FRA and DOT who places safety thresholds on the design of higher safety standards that certainly must be imposed.  When Fred Levin nailed the CSX on their lack of maintenance on their right-of-ways and won a $52M settlement back in the 70's the company responded with installation of CWR (continuous welded rail), elevated standards of tank car design mandated by the FRA to place head shields and locking couplers.  Accidents began to drop.  This is a process that is currently underway to evaluate safer tank cars design in conjunction with the FRA and will be accompanied by lower speed restrictions in curves.  Accidents have always happened but these companies respond to catastrophic events by avoiding more of the same by funding upgrades and I am confident that is going on at this moment.  

Even the far left politically controlled EPA has said that there will be no environmental impact from the Keystone Pipeline.

CLINTON COMES OUT AGAINST KEYSTONE XL PIPELINE Stirthepot-1

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