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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Calculated risk

Calculated risk

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1Calculated risk Empty Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 6:39 pm

The Dude

The Dude

This speech biy Israrl's Prime minister could backfire on US Israeli relations which is why so many Israelis were against this speech.

This is very interesting from 2011 we provide over 25 percent of the Israeli military cost

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/united-states-needs-to-reevaluate-its-assistance-to-israel/2011/10/15/gIQAK5XksL_story.html

2Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 6:47 pm

2seaoat



12.5% sounds like a good number to me. If a country wants to have our children and our wealth dumped down the sewer of another nation's self interest, perhaps diplomacy will have more value, and American lives will have more value when we are not taken for granted. This has been a horrible mistake by Israel today.....one that may never be corrected. It is sad that our traitors in their self proclaimed concern about Israel, may have hurt Israel in the long term.

3Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 6:55 pm

The Dude

The Dude

I agree I think it is was a huge mistake driven on an original miscalculation.

His words Israel will go it alone are so hollow as to be comical.
I support Israel generally but this really really pissed me off.

4Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 7:07 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

An excellent piece. The rhetoric has now begun. Now we need to break the vice grip AIPAC has on our politicians. Israel does not rule the United States of America.

The evangelical crowd will scream and cry loudly, but they need to be ignored. They have an apocalyptic view of the world and want war and conflict to happen because it fits their interpretation of the Scriptures.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

5Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 8:20 pm

The Dude

The Dude

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:An excellent piece. The rhetoric has now begun. Now we need to break the vice grip AIPAC has on our politicians. Israel does not rule the United States of America.

The evangelical crowd will scream and cry loudly, but they need to be ignored. They have an apocalyptic view of the world and want war and conflict to happen because it fits their interpretation of the Scriptures.

Yes they do and becauuse Israel is the chosen nation can do no wrong it's actually scary

6Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 8:35 pm

2seaoat



Israel is certainly our only long term ally who does have a democracy and reasonable stability. During the 1973 War, it was the Arabs who launched a preemptive attack and caught Israel off guard, and without our immediate aid, they were five days away from serious incursions into Israel proper.

I think it is fair to say that they will ALWAYS be threatened by surrounding nation states, but diplomacy does work, and again it would be equally wrong if we sent our President to their legislators and told them that their policy of going into Gaza was wrong.....it would never happen. We need to cut our Aid by a small symbolic amount to send a clear message of who is the tail and who is the dog. It is outrageous the traitors in our midst.

7Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 8:43 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

by 2seaoat Today at 7:47 pm
12.5% sounds like a good number to me. If a country wants to have our children and our wealth dumped down the sewer of another nation's self interest, perhaps diplomacy will have more value, and American lives will have more value when we are not taken for granted. This has been a horrible mistake by Israel today.....one that may never be corrected. It is sad that our traitors in their self proclaimed concern about Israel, may have hurt Israel in the long term.
------
Name the last Americsn that Israel had killed for their nation Seaoat. I'll be waiting for you answer. Israel only asks we help with a trifling 3 billion per year COLA to guarantee it's quantitative military edge against its enemies ( every nation that surrounds it and got its aZzzz kicked in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1972). Not me not any of your kids will ever have to put boots on the ground for Israel. They will do the heavy lifting themselves. They always have.

8Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 8:56 pm

2seaoat



They always have.


I would say a big WRONG. The first Gulf war and the second Gulf war indirectly benefited Israel, and Americans died. Did they manipulate the framework for war.......perhaps, but certainly not the first Gulf War, however, the second Gulf War and the continuing conflict are legitimately questioned. The instability of the nation states of Egypt, Syria, and Iraq eliminate 80% of the threat to the nation. Our continuing role in the middle east means that Israeli citizens and soldiers stay safe while our children die.

If you can answer why ISIS has not attacked Israel.......not even missile attacks from Syria leaves many questions, which the President of Syria has succinctly outlines as foreign interests and their proxies have intensified the conflict in Syria. The Syrians in 1973 almost over ran Israel, but for our tanks and planes quickly getting there by airlift. Israel is a good friend. One that we must protect as they should protect us. However, when their vulnerability leaves dead American kids, our interests are not mirror images. I hate the anti-semitism which enters this debate, but the truth is that to sustain this alliance, it will take some serious adjustments.

9Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 9:02 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

2seaoat wrote:Israel is certainly our only long term ally who does have a democracy and reasonable stability.  During the 1973 War, it was the Arabs who launched a preemptive attack and caught Israel off guard, and without our immediate aid, they were five days away from serious incursions into Israel proper.

I think it is fair to say that they will ALWAYS be threatened by surrounding nation states, but diplomacy does work, and again it would be equally wrong if we sent our President to their legislators and told them that their policy of going into Gaza was wrong.....it would never happen.   We need to cut our Aid by a small symbolic amount to send a clear message of who is the tail and who is the dog.  It is outrageous the traitors in our midst.

If diplomacy works, explain the thousands of rockets that still land inside the borders of Israel launched by Hamas and Hezbollah? Explain 1948, 1956, 1967, 1972, and every other battle the Israelies have fought against the aforementioned Iranian proxies?

The only traitors are those who would cut Israel off.

10Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 9:12 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

KarlRove wrote:The only traitors are those who would cut Israel off.

We can't be "traitors" because Israel is not a part of America and we are not Israeli citizens, Poindexter. Now those who would undermine American interests in favor of Israel, if they are U.S. citizens, yes. Time for Karl and Markle to look in the mirror.....

It looks like Bibi's speech blew-up in his face. He should have stayed home.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

11Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 9:13 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

2seaoat wrote:They always have.


I would say a big WRONG.  The first Gulf war and the second Gulf war indirectly benefited Israel, and Americans died.   Did they manipulate the framework for war.......perhaps, but certainly not the first Gulf War, however, the second Gulf War and the continuing conflict are legitimately questioned.  The instability of the nation states of Egypt, Syria, and Iraq eliminate 80% of the threat to the nation.  Our continuing role in the middle east means that Israeli citizens and soldiers stay safe while our children die.  

If you can answer why ISIS has not attacked Israel.......not even missile attacks from Syria leaves many questions, which the President of Syria has succinctly outlines as foreign interests and their proxies have intensified the conflict in Syria.  The Syrians in 1973 almost over ran Israel, but for our tanks and planes quickly getting there by airlift.  Israel is a good friend.  One that we must protect as they should protect us.  However, when their vulnerability leaves dead American kids, our interests are not mirror images.  I hate the anti-semitism which enters this debate, but the truth is that to sustain this alliance, it will take some serious adjustments.


Seabass....how much military aid (and it wasn't tanks) do you really think Israel got from Oct 6, 1973 to Oct 25th before the Russians and the US brokered a peace? Israel's Achilles heel in that war was the AT-3 Sagger anti-tank missile supplied by the Russians to the Arabs. That made armored warfare an even battle at that point because it made up for the Israeli armored supremacy at the time. Israel would have won regardless, but listening to morons like yourself who keep thinking that trading land for an alleged peace deal with stop the Arabs and they will be happy, is lunacy. Israel has given time and time again. It's only reward was more war. Israel doesn't have anything to give in the event of a nuke getting detonated over Tel Aviv in an air burst. There's no second chance for them and you lecturing them from the comfort of your Lazy Boy and two ocean border is something the Jewish nation is laughing at you about.

12Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 9:14 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
KarlRove wrote:The only traitors are those who would cut Israel off.

We can't be "traitors" because Israel is not a part of America and we are not Israeli citizens, Poindexter. Now those who would undermine American interests in favor of Israel, if they are U.S. citizens, yes. Time for Karl and Markle to look in the mirror.....

It looks like Bibi's speech blew-up in his face. He should have stayed home.

You are a traitor if you fail to back Israel.

13Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 9:14 pm

2seaoat



The only traitors are those who would cut Israel off.


I am an American Citizen. I cannot betray that which I owe no allegiance. Is it in American national interests to keep a strong alliance with Israel.....YES.

However, understand history. Israel's 67 preemptive strike, and Egypt and Syria's 1973 preemptive strike were totally different wars. The success of 67 was unprecedented. The almost complete collapse of Israeli tanks in the Sinai as Egypt cleverly hid behind sam missle protection and annihilated their tanks. They begged us for immediate replacements and but for our immediate response the Syrians would have over run the Golan Heights. Eventually Israel dominated with our aid. The reality of 1973 was clear. Strong middle east hostile nation state neighbors presented a real threat to Israel. Those nation states are now in absolute disarray. Is this by accident. Nope.

14Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 9:15 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
KarlRove wrote:The only traitors are those who would cut Israel off.

We can't be "traitors" because Israel is not a part of America and we are not Israeli citizens, Poindexter. Now those who would undermine American interests in favor of Israel, if they are U.S. citizens, yes. Time for Karl and Markle to look in the mirror.....

It looks like Bibi's speech blew-up in his face. He should have stayed home.

Bebe's speech was awesome. I only wish we had a leader with some balls like he has. His balls are so big he needs a wheelbarrow to carry them.

15Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 9:17 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

KarlRove wrote:You are a traitor if you fail to back Israel.

FALSE!!!

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

16Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 9:19 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

KarlRove wrote:His balls are so big he needs a wheelbarrow to carry them.

Karl's mancrush on Bibi continues.... He likes the PM's balls.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

17Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/3/2015, 9:24 pm

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

2seaoat wrote:I cannot betray that which I owe no allegiance.

Thank you for giving Karl a civics lesson.....

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

18Calculated risk Empty Re: Calculated risk 3/4/2015, 10:18 am

KarlRove

KarlRove

2seaoat wrote:They always have.


I would say a big WRONG. The first Gulf war and the second Gulf war indirectly benefited Israel, and Americans died. Did they manipulate the framework for war.......perhaps, but certainly not the first Gulf War, however, the second Gulf War and the continuing conflict are legitimately questioned. The instability of the nation states of Egypt, Syria, and Iraq eliminate 80% of the threat to the nation. Our continuing role in the middle east means that Israeli citizens and soldiers stay safe while our children die.

If you can answer why ISIS has not attacked Israel.......not even missile attacks from Syria leaves many questions, which the President of Syria has succinctly outlines as foreign interests and their proxies have intensified the conflict in Syria. The Syrians in 1973 almost over ran Israel, but for our tanks and planes quickly getting there by airlift. Israel is a good friend. One that we must protect as they should protect us. However, when their vulnerability leaves dead American kids, our interests are not mirror images. I hate the anti-semitism which enters this debate, but the truth is that to sustain this alliance, it will take some serious adjustments.


"I would say"....

Your opinion is not that of an expert. Israel was a sitting duck as Saddam shot SCUD after SCUD into Israel and maintained their demeanor when they could have wiped out Iraq.

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