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Republican district gerrymandering. When you can't compete in the world of ideas...

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othershoe1030
boards of FL
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boards of FL

boards of FL

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-proposal-that-mocks-democracy-in-virginia/2015/02/19/e8b727a2-b798-11e4-aa05-1ce812b3fdd2_story.html?tid=rssfeed


HEAVEN FORBID that an incumbent seeking reelection to Virginia’s state legislature should face a bump in the road in the form of a plausible challenger. If the incumbent were seeking reelection in a district where Democrats and Republicans enjoyed roughly equal support, it might empower voters to keep candidates of both parties on their toes, which would start to look something like democracy.

Clearly, that’s not the Virginia Way — not in these modern times of jiggering electoral maps and cherry-picking voters, the better for incumbents to guarantee their glide path to non-competitive reelection in perpetuity.

Exhibit A for such electoral shenanigans is state Sen. Bryce E. Reeves (R-Spotsylvania) . Mr. Reeves, a culture warrior who wielded an antiabortion message to unseat a veteran Democrat in 2011, was evidently unnerved by his razor-thin margin of victory. He wanted extra Republican voters in his district as padding so that he doesn’t have to repeat the experience this fall, when he appears to face a strong Democratic challenge from Traci Dippert, a teacher. His fellow lawmakers, mainly Republicans, were happy to oblige.

In a move whose cynicism echoes the “democracies” of Russia, Syria and other unsavory places, Mr. Reeves pushed legislation that would trade precincts with a neighboring district. The goal — unobscured by Mr. Reeves’s smoke-blowing about unifying a couple of split precincts — is to export Democrats who might vote against him and import Republicans who look like a surer bet.

The neighboring senator, who would also benefit by the swap, is R. Creigh Deeds (D), whose sense of principle is evidently more fine-tuned than Mr. Reeves’s. Mr. Deeds, who knows a stomach-turning political stunt when he sees one, voted no. “When you’re flipping a Democratic precinct into the district I represent, and a Republican precinct into the district [Mr. Reeves] represents, how else can you see it?” he asked The Post’s Jenna Portnoy.

Unfortunately for voters in Mr. Reeves’s District 17, which stretches from Fredericksburg west to Charlottesville, the GOP-dominated House of Delegates disregarded concerns for old-fashioned virtues like candor and fair play. It voted 65 to 33 in favor of the bill. The Senate, where Republicans enjoy a slight advantage, also backed it, by a vote of 21 to 18.

The bill now goes to Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D), who should veto it.

In many other states, lawmakers wait until after the decennial census to redraw districts. Not so in Virginia, a swing state where it seems Republicans who hold sway in Richmond will stop at nothing to lock in their hold on power — including election-rigging.

Thanks to shameless gerrymandering, more than 90 percent of Virginia’s state legislative elections in 2011 and 2013 combined were blowouts; in more than half, the victorious Republican or Democrat faced no candidate from the other major party.

Little wonder that voter turnout for those elections has been plummeting for years. When voters see brazen cynicism like Mr. Reeves’s, they tend to stay home.


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othershoe1030

othershoe1030

As a result of these designer districts the extremes of both parties have become more pronounced. This extremism is spilling over into our everyday social lives to the point that there is now a trend showing people actually moving to other areas where they feel more comfortable living amongst folks who share their political/social outlook.

I liked it better when politics or positions on events of the day weren't such hot button items. I think the MSM has exacerbated this situation and played a role in injecting emotional and unreasoned responses to many of our nation's decisions. We have been divided by these events: gerrymandering and mass brainwashing into very malleable groups who are becoming less able to effectively communicate or discuss issues. It is working out very well for the PTB.


...redistricting over the past three decades has become more prevalent and more partisan. Much has been written about the pervasiveness of gerrymandering on both sides, and this data buttresses that argument. Not only have races become less competitive—the margin of victory has been at least 20 points in over 74 percent of U.S. House elections since 2004—but the members of these less competitive districts have moved closer to their ideological bases and further from the center.

It makes perfect sense. Without having to fear a competitive electoral fight, there is little incentive for members of Congress to moderate their positions and the country suffers as a result. If we want to move back towards the center and bring a spirit of cooperation back to Congress, reevaluating how we do redistricting—especially with the 2010 Census ongoing—will be vital. The production of more competitive districts should yield candidates closer to the ideological center, hopefully reversing the partisan trending that has crippled our legislative bodies this decade.
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2010/06/15-gerrymandering-frankel

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2010/11/11/the-top-ten-most-gerrymandered-congressional-districts-in-the-united-states/?singlepage=true

This isn't just the top ten...there's also a list of non-contiguous districts, and a dishonorable mention category, complete with detailed maps of each district. Makes Florida look horrible, BTW. Whatever happened to the redistricting lawsuits by the League of Women Voters? Who knows?

gatorfan



Here is your quiz for the day:

What state (largely Democrat) is essentially tied for the most gerrymandered and borders Virginia?

If your answer was Maryland you get a point.

Yes, believe or not folks Democrats like to fool around with the gerrymandering game too.

How many times do I have to show that both party's are more alike than different?

Yawn.

boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:Here is your quiz for the day:

What state (largely Democrat) is essentially tied for the most gerrymandered and borders Virginia?

If your answer was Maryland you get a point.

Yes, believe or not folks Democrats like to fool around with the gerrymandering game too.

How many times do I have to show that both party's are more alike than different?

Yawn.



Democrats and republicans aren't even in the same time zone with respect to district gerrymandering.  It isn't even close.  Republicans can quite literally lose the popular vote but - thanks to district gerrymandering - can "shellack" democrats in House elections.  You acknowledge this, right?   Democrats will need to win the popular vote by 7% or more in order to take the house back.  Likewise, republicans can continue to lose the popular vote by up to 7% and yet still maintain their edge.  Is that a system representative of the will of its citizens?

We should redraw the districts based on some common sense algorithm and then not touch them.  Force politicians to compete in the world of ideas rather than being able to select their voters and put forth batshit crazy ideas.

The republican house would be lost overnight if it were a true barometer of US voters.  Unfortunately, it isn't, so for the time being it is an impenetrable fortress of stupid.


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KarlRove

KarlRove

Whaaaaaa whaaaaaaaa

gatorfan



boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:Here is your quiz for the day:

What state (largely Democrat) is essentially tied for the most gerrymandered and borders Virginia?

If your answer was Maryland you get a point.

Yes, believe or not folks Democrats like to fool around with the gerrymandering game too.

How many times do I have to show that both party's are more alike than different?

Yawn.



Democrats and republicans aren't even in the same time zone with respect to district gerrymandering.  It isn't even close.  Republicans can quite literally lose the popular vote but - thanks to district gerrymandering - can "shellack" democrats in House elections.  You acknowledge this, right?   Democrats will need to win the popular vote by 7% or more in order to take the house back.  Likewise, republicans can continue to lose the popular vote by up to 7% and yet still maintain their edge.  Is that a system representative of the will of its citizens?

We should redraw the districts based on some common sense algorithm and then not touch them.  Force politicians to compete in the world of ideas rather than being able to select their voters and put forth batshit crazy ideas.

The republican house would be lost overnight if it were a true barometer of US voters.  Unfortunately, it isn't, so for the time being it is an impenetrable fortress of stupid.

My point was both party's play the game, can you at least admit that? This argument "but they do it more" doesn't really matter because not all states are equal in representation. Is it right or do I think it right to play games with districts in order to gain seats or to ensure your party has "safe seats" even if it means giving up some swing seats to the other party? No. In fact as an Independent I would like nothing more than to even the playing field, it might make it easier for a moderate Independent to gain traction.

Who would you trust to redraw/realign districts to make them a real reflection of area populations and natural boundaries? Politicians? I don't trust any of them anymore.

boards of FL

boards of FL

KarlRove wrote:Whaaaaaa whaaaaaaaa


Par for the course.


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boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:Here is your quiz for the day:

What state (largely Democrat) is essentially tied for the most gerrymandered and borders Virginia?

If your answer was Maryland you get a point.

Yes, believe or not folks Democrats like to fool around with the gerrymandering game too.

How many times do I have to show that both party's are more alike than different?

Yawn.



Democrats and republicans aren't even in the same time zone with respect to district gerrymandering.  It isn't even close.  Republicans can quite literally lose the popular vote but - thanks to district gerrymandering - can "shellack" democrats in House elections.  You acknowledge this, right?   Democrats will need to win the popular vote by 7% or more in order to take the house back.  Likewise, republicans can continue to lose the popular vote by up to 7% and yet still maintain their edge.  Is that a system representative of the will of its citizens?

We should redraw the districts based on some common sense algorithm and then not touch them.  Force politicians to compete in the world of ideas rather than being able to select their voters and put forth batshit crazy ideas.

The republican house would be lost overnight if it were a true barometer of US voters.  Unfortunately, it isn't, so for the time being it is an impenetrable fortress of stupid.

My point was both party's play the game, can you at least admit that? This argument "but they do it more" doesn't really matter because not all states are equal in representation. Is it right or do I think it right to play games with districts in order to gain seats or to ensure your party has "safe seats" even if it means giving up some swing seats to the other party? No. In fact as an Independent I would like nothing more than to even the playing field, it might make it easier for a moderate Independent to gain traction.

Who would you trust to redraw/realign districts to make them a real reflection of area populations and natural boundaries? Politicians? I don't trust any of them anymore.


Yes. We can point to instances where each party has gerrymandered. I never said otherwise. In fact, I said that republicans gerrymander considerably more than democrats do...which, if you are literate, means that I acknowledge the fact that democrats gerrymander as well.

I'll ask you again, you acknowledge that democrats and republicans aren't even in the same solar system when it comes to gerrymandering, right? Can you acknowledge that?


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gatorfan



boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:Here is your quiz for the day:

What state (largely Democrat) is essentially tied for the most gerrymandered and borders Virginia?

If your answer was Maryland you get a point.

Yes, believe or not folks Democrats like to fool around with the gerrymandering game too.

How many times do I have to show that both party's are more alike than different?

Yawn.



Democrats and republicans aren't even in the same time zone with respect to district gerrymandering.  It isn't even close.  Republicans can quite literally lose the popular vote but - thanks to district gerrymandering - can "shellack" democrats in House elections.  You acknowledge this, right?   Democrats will need to win the popular vote by 7% or more in order to take the house back.  Likewise, republicans can continue to lose the popular vote by up to 7% and yet still maintain their edge.  Is that a system representative of the will of its citizens?

We should redraw the districts based on some common sense algorithm and then not touch them.  Force politicians to compete in the world of ideas rather than being able to select their voters and put forth batshit crazy ideas.

The republican house would be lost overnight if it were a true barometer of US voters.  Unfortunately, it isn't, so for the time being it is an impenetrable fortress of stupid.

My point was both party's play the game, can you at least admit that? This argument "but they do it more" doesn't really matter because not all states are equal in representation. Is it right or do I think it right to play games with districts in order to gain seats or to ensure your party has "safe seats" even if it means giving up some swing seats to the other party? No. In fact as an Independent I would like nothing more than to even the playing field, it might make it easier for a moderate Independent to gain traction.

Who would you trust to redraw/realign districts to make them a real reflection of area populations and natural boundaries? Politicians? I don't trust any of them anymore.


Yes.  We can point to instances where each party has gerrymandered.  I never said otherwise.  In fact, I said that republicans gerrymander considerably more than democrats do...which, if you are literate, means that I acknowledge the fact that democrats gerrymander as well.

I'll ask you again, you acknowledge that democrats and republicans aren't even in the same solar system when it comes to gerrymandering, right?  Can you acknowledge that?

For some reason you always try to assume some superior grasp of a conversation. If you are literate you would see I already answered your question but I guess subtlety isn't your style. I'll make it easy for you" There is no doubt the R's are ahead in the G/M game.

Now if you would answer my question Senor - because the problem will never go away until this happens:

Who would you trust to redraw/realign districts to make them a real reflection of area populations and natural boundaries?

boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:If you are literate you would see I already answered your question but I guess subtlety isn't your style. I'll make it easy for you" There is no doubt the R's are ahead in the G/M game.


This is your first time conceding this.


gatorfan wrote:Who would you trust to redraw/realign districts to make them a real reflection of area populations and natural boundaries?


It isn't rocket science. Simply develop an algorithm that accounts for population and geography, and then strictly apply it to all states. How many republicans does it take to effectively divide up a rectangle evenly, rather than in an oddly distorted fashion?


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Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:Here is your quiz for the day:

What state (largely Democrat) is essentially tied for the most gerrymandered and borders Virginia?

If your answer was Maryland you get a point.

Yes, believe or not folks Democrats like to fool around with the gerrymandering game too.

How many times do I have to show that both party's are more alike than different?

Yawn.



Democrats and republicans aren't even in the same time zone with respect to district gerrymandering.  It isn't even close.  Republicans can quite literally lose the popular vote but - thanks to district gerrymandering - can "shellack" democrats in House elections.  You acknowledge this, right?   Democrats will need to win the popular vote by 7% or more in order to take the house back.  Likewise, republicans can continue to lose the popular vote by up to 7% and yet still maintain their edge.  Is that a system representative of the will of its citizens?

We should redraw the districts based on some common sense algorithm and then not touch them.  Force politicians to compete in the world of ideas rather than being able to select their voters and put forth batshit crazy ideas.

The republican house would be lost overnight if it were a true barometer of US voters.  Unfortunately, it isn't, so for the time being it is an impenetrable fortress of stupid.

My point was both party's play the game, can you at least admit that? This argument "but they do it more" doesn't really matter because not all states are equal in representation. Is it right or do I think it right to play games with districts in order to gain seats or to ensure your party has "safe seats" even if it means giving up some swing seats to the other party? No. In fact as an Independent I would like nothing more than to even the playing field, it might make it easier for a moderate Independent to gain traction.

Who would you trust to redraw/realign districts to make them a real reflection of area populations and natural boundaries? Politicians? I don't trust any of them anymore.


Yes.  We can point to instances where each party has gerrymandered.  I never said otherwise.  In fact, I said that republicans gerrymander considerably more than democrats do...which, if you are literate, means that I acknowledge the fact that democrats gerrymander as well.

I'll ask you again, you acknowledge that democrats and republicans aren't even in the same solar system when it comes to gerrymandering, right?  Can you acknowledge that?

For some reason you always try to assume some superior grasp of a conversation. If you are literate you would see I already answered your question but I guess subtlety isn't your style. I'll make it easy for you" There is no doubt the R's are ahead in the G/M game.

Now if you would answer my question Senor - because the problem will never go away until this happens:

Who would you trust to redraw/realign districts to make them a real reflection of area populations and natural boundaries?

Pseudo political expertise

gatorfan



boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:If you are literate you would see I already answered your question but I guess subtlety isn't your style. I'll make it easy for you" There is no doubt the R's are ahead in the G/M game.


This is your first time conceding this.


gatorfan wrote:Who would you trust to redraw/realign districts to make them a real reflection of area populations and natural boundaries?


It isn't rocket science.  Simply develop an algorithm that accounts for population and geography, and then strictly apply it to all states.  How many republicans does it take to effectively divide up a rectangle evenly, rather than in an oddly distorted fashion?

LOL. Went right over your head I see, no your question was answered before - you just choose to ignore it. As usual.

Your "algorithm" solution has some merit but also pitfalls for metropolitan areas unless it's your objective to split what will likely be significant numbers of minority groups in larger populated areas.

So I see you have no answer, just more snarky talk.

boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:LOL. Went right over your head I see, no your question was answered before - you just choose to ignore it. As usual.


Where? Use the quote feature.


gatorfan wrote:Your "algorithm" solution has some merit but also pitfalls for metropolitan areas unless it's your objective to split what will likely be significant numbers of minority groups in larger populated areas.

So I see you have no answer, just more snarky talk.


I gave you an answer. Any computer programmer could develop an algorithm that would evenly divide up states in the most efficient manner geographically. Once we have that, strictly apply that to all states. The only time that districts would be redrawn would be at census time for the purpose of accounting for shifts in population. The end.


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