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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Another American sniper tosses in the towel and turns anti-Iraq war.

Another American sniper tosses in the towel and turns anti-Iraq war.

+5
Hospital Bob
ZVUGKTUBM
nadalfan
KarlRove
Wordslinger
9 posters

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Wordslinger

Wordslinger

No doubt Semi-sane Markle will hate this guy ....

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/28277-focus-the-american-sniper-you-didnt-hear-about



Last edited by Wordslinger on 1/30/2015, 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total

KarlRove

KarlRove

So we have another modern John Kerry , oh well.

nadalfan



KarlRove wrote:So we have another modern John Kerry , oh well.

No, we have a young man that was sent to a war based on lies and struggled with eliminating people. To you that may be cowardly, to me it shows humanity and the reality and consequences of war.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

KarlRove wrote:So we have another modern John Kerry , oh well.

Q: If a person in the military believes that America is pursuing an illegal, unjust, unnecessary, unconscionable war against an innocent nation, why are they wrong to turn against it?

During WWII many Nazi SS groups hurried to annihilate Jewish captives as the allied armies and the Soviet Union armies approached. These soldiers were committing despicable, horrendous crimes and their only defense was they were following orders. Is this what you recommend for American military personnel?

KarlRove

KarlRove

nadalfan wrote:
KarlRove wrote:So we have another modern John Kerry , oh well.

No, we have a young man that was sent to a war based on lies and struggled with eliminating people. To you that may be cowardly, to me it shows humanity and the reality and consequences of war.

He volunteered to serve. Nobody forced him. There was no draft. He chose his job. What did he think he would be doing? Working in the chow hall? Seriously, you folks are so butt hurt over the little things. I guess the guy should have never planted those folks making those roadside bombs huh? Just let them kill and maim our own troops horrifically? huh? Loser.

nadalfan



KarlRove wrote:
nadalfan wrote:
KarlRove wrote:So we have another modern John Kerry , oh well.

No, we have a young man that was sent to a war based on lies and struggled with eliminating people.  To you that may be cowardly, to me it shows humanity and the reality and consequences of war.

He volunteered to serve. Nobody forced him. There was no draft. He chose his job. What did he think he would be doing? Working in the chow hall? Seriously, you folks are so butt hurt over the little things. I guess the guy should have never planted those folks making those roadside bombs huh? Just let them kill and maim our own troops horrifically? huh? Loser.

Is this how you feel about all our vets now suffering from PTSD? They knew what they were getting into, nobody forced them, so they should just suck it up? Is there ever a human side to your views?

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

nadalfan wrote:
KarlRove wrote:
nadalfan wrote:
KarlRove wrote:So we have another modern John Kerry , oh well.

No, we have a young man that was sent to a war based on lies and struggled with eliminating people.  To you that may be cowardly, to me it shows humanity and the reality and consequences of war.

He volunteered to serve. Nobody forced him. There was no draft. He chose his job. What did he think he would be doing? Working in the chow hall? Seriously, you folks are so butt hurt over the little things. I guess the guy should have never planted those folks making those roadside bombs huh? Just let them kill and maim our own troops horrifically? huh? Loser.

Is this how you feel about all our vets now suffering from PTSD? They knew what they were getting into, nobody forced them, so they should just suck it up? Is there ever a human side to your views?

Karl's views are skewed by his own untreated PTSD.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

KarlRove

KarlRove

by nadalfan Today at 11:12 am
KarlRove wrote:
“
nadalfan wrote:
“
KarlRove wrote:
“
So we have another modern John Kerry , oh well.
”
No, we have a young man that was sent to a war based on lies and struggled with eliminating people. To you that may be cowardly, to me it shows humanity and the reality and consequences of war.
”
He volunteered to serve. Nobody forced him. There was no draft. He chose his job. What did he think he would be doing? Working in the chow hall? Seriously, you folks are so butt hurt over the little things. I guess the guy should have never planted those folks making those roadside bombs huh? Just let them kill and maim our own troops horrifically? huh? Loser.
”
Is this how you feel about all our vets now suffering from PTSD? They knew what they were getting into, nobody forced them, so they should just suck it up? Is there ever a human side to your views?
------
There's plenty of human side I have on this. I didn't get mine watching CNN

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Hey War Hero: Once again:

Q: If a person in the military believes that America is pursuing an illegal, unjust, unnecessary, unconscionable war against an innocent nation, why are they wrong to turn against it?

During WWII many Nazi SS groups hurried to annihilate Jewish captives as the allied armies and the Soviet Union armies approached. These soldiers were committing despicable, horrendous crimes and their only defense was they were following orders. Is this what you recommend for American military personnel?

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

KarlRove wrote:So we have another modern John Kerry , oh well.

Really? I guess there are some similarities though, like these:

The Vietnam war cast America, the largest, most deadly military force in the world against Vietnamese peasants fighting to unite their country following several decades of being ruled by a colonial power -- namely France. Kerry came to realize this truth and was man enough to speak out against the illegal and wrongful war.

Garett Reppenhagen came to the same conclusion about our Imperialist war in Iraq -- where once again the strongest military power in the world took the role of a bully, by invading a non-industrialized mostly agricultural country that had nothing to do with 9-11, and had made no threat whatever against the U.S.

I salute both these American military members for following their consciences -- an act that took considerably more bravery than War Hero and his ilk are capable of.

The awful truth is, the Vietcong and North Vietnamese fighters, and the Iraqi fighters were patriots fighting foreign invaders who believed they had a right to rule because they wanted to.

Bully -- that descriptive suits you to a T War Hero. You revel in the idea of pushing people around when they haven't a chance against you, your buddies, and all your firepower. You're no different than Chris Kyle -- you just want to beat up and kill those raghead savages. And you wonder why we are disgusted by your false bravado and bullshit patriotism?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

If you want to get the feel for what hell it was like to be part of an Army tank crew advancing across Germany in 1944, rent the movie "Fury".
It just came to Redbox yesterday and I watched it last night.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Bob wrote:If you want to get the feel for what hell it was like to be part of an Army tank crew advancing across Germany in 1944,  rent the movie "Fury".  
It just came to Redbox yesterday and I watched it last night.  


Saw it three weeks ago. A very good war film ... about a handful of American soldiers fighting an impossible battle against superior forces, in the last just war America fought.

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:Hey War Hero:  Once again:

Q: If a person in the military believes that America is pursuing an illegal, unjust, unnecessary, unconscionable war against an innocent nation, why are they wrong to turn against it?

During WWII many Nazi SS groups hurried to annihilate Jewish captives as the allied armies and the Soviet Union armies approached. These soldiers were committing despicable, horrendous crimes and their only defense was they were following orders. Is this what you recommend for American military personnel?

As you well know, there were never any lies and Afghanistan is the place semi-retired President Obama told us repeatedly was the war we should be fighting.  The war is both legal, just and necessary.  Great to have men who are able to do what you cannot so that you can expound your obscene theories.

During the WWII, in many battles, atrocities were committed by all sides.  Many battles did not allow the time take and process prisoners.  I know somewhat of this as my dad lost his left leg and had sever damage to his left hand in late Dec. or early Jan 1945 in the Battle of the Bulge.  He laid for two days with his missing leg and shattered hand until medics got up to them and he was evacuated.



Last edited by Markle on 1/30/2015, 5:14 am; edited 2 times in total

KarlRove

KarlRove

Wordslinger wrote:Hey War Hero:  Once again:

Q: If a person in the military believes that America is pursuing an illegal, unjust, unnecessary, unconscionable war against an innocent nation, why are they wrong to turn against it?

During WWII many Nazi SS groups hurried to annihilate Jewish captives as the allied armies and the Soviet Union armies approached. These soldiers were committing despicable, horrendous crimes and their only defense was they were following orders. Is this what you recommend for American military personnel?

What's funny is that he was all good with it until the American Sniper movie and book are put into the light. Now he wants to play devil's advocate/Johnny Come Lately. I don't buy it. Neither should you. None of the orders this guy got were unlawful. I never had an unlawful order. See, that's where WINNERS make the rules. Had we been the loser of the war, the rules might be different, but unfortunately for people like you it's a thorn in your side.

KarlRove

KarlRove

Markle wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:Hey War Hero:  Once again:

Q: If a person in the military believes that America is pursuing an illegal, unjust, unnecessary, unconscionable war against an innocent nation, why are they wrong to turn against it?

During WWII many Nazi SS groups hurried to annihilate Jewish captives as the allied armies and the Soviet Union armies approached. These soldiers were committing despicable, horrendous crimes and their only defense was they were following orders. Is this what you recommend for American military personnel?

As you well know, there were never any lies and Afghanistan is the place semi-retired President Obama told us repeatedly was the war we should be fighting.  The war is both legal, just and necessary.  Great to have men who are able to do what you cannot so that you can expound your obscene theories.

During the WWII, in many battles, atrocities were committed by all sides.  Many battles did not allow the time take and process prisoners.  I know somewhat of this as my dad lost his left leg and had sever damage to his left hand in late Dec. or early Jan 1944 in the Battle of the Bulge.  He laid for two days with his missing leg and shattered hand until medics got up to them and he was evacuated.


Battle of the Bulge was Dec 44- Jan 45.

KarlRove

KarlRove

Wordslinger wrote:
Bob wrote:If you want to get the feel for what hell it was like to be part of an Army tank crew advancing across Germany in 1944,  rent the movie "Fury".  
It just came to Redbox yesterday and I watched it last night.  


Saw it three weeks ago.  A very good war film ... about a handful of American soldiers fighting an impossible battle against superior forces, in the last just war America fought.

The German people didn't think so much. Especially when Arthur "Bomber" Harris of the RAF was conducting his part of the Combined Bomber Offensive. The Brits wouldn't do daylight high altitude precision bombing and we would. The Brits would roll in at night and pretty much bomb the crap out of entire cities through massive 1000 plane raids over areas build during Medieval times that burned to cinders. The Brits then found out that they could purposely create a firestorm with the use of HE (high explosive) and incendiary bombs. These firestorms reached a temperature of over 1500 degrees and if the HE didn't kill you, the 175 mph vortex of fiery winds sucking out the entire atmosphere over a target did. Bomb shelters did no good against asphyxiation. So, don't tell me everything done on the Allied side was kosher. We literally bombed the Germans to dust. For what? Why were we still pounding targets past Feb 1, 1945? The Germans were going to capitulate regardless at that point. One of the greatest WW II generals (Patton) was sickened by the pointless destruction set upon Europe with the bombing that was overkill to the point that actual military value targets were near nil after Feb 1, 1945.

The same can be said for the Japanese. We had them encircled. Very little food was getting into the country and what could be grown there was not enough to sustain the population. Daily B-29 raids wrecked a great deal of the country in that specific areas where the atomic bomb was to be dropped were left alone. This choice was made by General Leslie Groves who headed up the Manhattan Project. There were four target areas. Nagasaki was only hit when the primary target for the second bomb was obscured fires purposely lit by the Japanese. Even then, the bomb was minutes away from not being dropped there because of an unclear site picture by the bombardier. We could have just done a siege around the island and the Japanese would have had to surrender regardless.

***See I can play your game too over looking at both sides of the issue. Wars are won by generals taking military objectives. It's only when politicians get involved does it screw with the aforementioned goal. The Soviets and Stalin wanted to bring Germany to her knees for starting Operation Barbarossa against them and they did. That was one of the reasons too why on April 12, 1945, Ike held Allied troops at the Elbe. There was no military goal for the Allies to push to Berlin despite the CRIES and WHINES of Churchill and Montgomery. Berlin was not a military target in the sense that the industrial areas of the Ruhr Valley had been. Berlin was all political and it lay in the predetermined sphere of influence the Russians were getting after the war anyhow, so why spill American blood over it? Would it have benefitted the German people for us to have pushed beyond the Elbe? Damn right it would have and could have been used as a bargaining chip against Stalin given the fact that he became a real horse's ass at Potsdam and into the post war era (Cold War). In the Japanese sphere, continued hitting of targets was supposed to soften up the nation for an invasion of the Manhattan Project weapons didn't function as planned and that was a real chance considering the mathematics and physics involved in the making of the plutonium bomb and imploding a sphere of fissionable material. The gun method with a uranium bomb was a done deal and early on because of the characteristics of U-235 and how it reaches fission. The plutonium bomb, not so much. Even then you had folks like Enrico Fermi making bets with fellow scientists that the entire atmosphere of the Earth was going to be destroyed once the bomb went off. There were also the political considerations of dropping the bomb as well and directed at an already knowing Stalin. He knew we had the bomb because people like Klaus Fuchs had infiltrated the Manhattan Project because our Brit friends didn't vet him well enough even though they knew he was sympathetic to the commies. Truman thinks he has a trump card in the successful explosion at the Trinity site and Stalin blows him off saying "they already knew." LOL . I wish I could have seen the look on the banty rooster Truman when Stalin told him that. Bet it was priceless. Finally, had we been more willing to allow Emperor Hirohito an earlier status of remaining over the Japanese people (figurehead), they might have surrendered sooner as well. That had been a major sticking point of the unconditional surrender negotiations. The Japanese just wanted the little dude to keep his place- nothing else.

You can hem and haw all you want. Winners make the rules. Losers get to go by them. Despite how we prosecuted the war against the aforementioned foes, we did so with the Intel and the agreements made with our allies. The same with the GWOT. All the data was there, but if Bush was a fool, then so was the world. They had the same evidence Bush and the military had. Would it have been wiser to wait it out longer like Colin Powell suggested? Probably, but then Obama hasn't listened to his generals either so that is a wash, huh? Had we lost the wars discussed, we would have been subjected to martial law and our way of life lost. Period, End of discussion. We are fortunate that we did not. Picking and choosing the way you have only shows your one-sidedness and hypocrisy. America hasn't always been the Knight in Shining Armor, but we don't have commanders and Presidents who have the same train of thought as Stalin, Mao, or Hitler...or the same goals to commit genocide on entire nations/races and in Stalin's case, some of his own people like during his purge and in WW II.

Your reasoning is why you are a giant joke. Just as I have described, you are all over the place when it comes to Bush et al, but turn a blind eye where the Dems are concerned. Obama's bombed more nations than Bush. Obama has zero respect throughout the world. Nations like Syria and Iran taunt him. Of course, Iran taunted Jimmy Carter as well. Two men of the same inability to lead.

Thinking that WWII was a just war.....it JUST depends on your viewpoint. You viewpoint is quite skewed to the point that TRUTH for you only exists where your political opponents have set up shop. Not in logic or reason. Goebbels would have hired you in heartbeat.

KarlRove

KarlRove

The jihadist Muslims want to end out way of life just as much as the Germans or Japanese.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Once again War Hero .... how about trying to give us your answer or opinion on the following:Hey War Hero: Once again:

Q: If a person in the military believes that America is pursuing an illegal, unjust, unnecessary, unconscionable war against an innocent nation, why are they wrong to turn against it?

During WWII many Nazi SS groups hurried to annihilate Jewish captives as the allied armies and the Soviet Union armies approached. These soldiers were committing despicable, horrendous crimes and their only defense was they were following orders. Is this what you recommend for American military personnel?

You keep dancing around this question instead of answering it. Why?

polecat

polecat

KarlRove wrote:So we have another modern John Kerry , oh well.


Karl who would you rather be in a foxhole with John Kerry or Ted Nugent?

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Semi-sane Markle commented in response to this thread:

"As you well know, there were never any lies and Afghanistan is the place semi-retired President Obama told us repeatedly was the war we should be fighting. The war is both legal, just and necessary. Great to have men who are able to do what you cannot so that you can expound your obscene theories."

He must have some point here, but I fail to grasp it. The reasons the U.S. government broadcast in support of our invasion of Afghanistan was to defeat the Taliban who had provided bases for Al Quaida. Once we had defeated the Taliban, and forced Al Qaida into Pakistan's remote mountains, why in hell did we have to stay? There's only one reason: we were going to nation build once again. Remaining in Afghanistan was a dreadful, costly and self-destructive effort, which began with establishing Hamid Karzai as our puppet leader. The Karzai family is now unbelievably rich with American aid money they managed to pocket and stash away.

Obama was 100% wrong about meddling in Afghanistan. We've spent billions, and our nation-building has failed utterly. The Taliban -- whom we declared as our initial target enemy is stronger than ever and every indication leads to the conclusion they will soon take over.

All our efforts to rebuild and democratize Islamic countries in the Mideast have been dreadful failures due to America's insane and self-destructive belief that we're the best and we have the right to bully other people who don't see it our way.

Since our successful imperialist war against the Philippines in 1899-1902, and in Japan and Germany after WWII, we have never been successful at nation building through invading and occupying foreign countries -- particularly when we let them know up front we weren't going to be there forever. Consider: as soon as you inform a captive population that they have to do everything your way, but that you'll be leaving in a few years -- you LOSE. They recognize right away that when you leave, the ancient tribal conflicts will flare up again. And the bravest of them begin studying how to make and use IEDs.

Our nation building in Germany and Japan post WWII worked because we never told them we'd be leaving. Hell we still have bases there!

As for soldiers who come to hate using America's unbelievable military might and technology to invade, occupy, bully and kill mostly illiterate third-world populations who are little if any threat to the people of Boise or Fort Worth, maybe their voices should be listened to instead of ridiculed.

"My country, right or wrong," is destroying America.



ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

polecat wrote:
KarlRove wrote:So we have another modern John Kerry , oh well.


Karl who would you rather be in a foxhole with John Kerry or Ted Nugent?

He would definitely go with Ted, LOL! Ideology trumps true combat experience.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

KarlRove

KarlRove

by Wordslinger Today at 12:34 pm
Once again War Hero .... how about trying to give us your answer or opinion on the following:Hey War Hero: Once again:

Q: If a person in the military believes that America is pursuing an illegal, unjust, unnecessary, unconscionable war against an innocent nation, why are they wrong to turn against it?

During WWII many Nazi SS groups hurried to annihilate Jewish captives as the allied armies and the Soviet Union armies approached. These soldiers were committing despicable, horrendous crimes and their only defense was they were following orders. Is this what you recommend for American military personnel?

You keep dancing around this question instead of answering it. Why?
by polecat Today at 12:38 pm
-------
It's answered, just not the way you can comprehend it. I know the verbage is probably above what you can comprehend. Maybe ask your mom to break it down for you.

KarlRove

KarlRove

by ZVUGKTUBM Today at 2:05 pm
polecat wrote:
“
KarlRove wrote:
“
So we have another modern John Kerry , oh well.
”

Karl who would you rather be in a foxhole with John Kerry or Ted Nugent?
”
He would definitely go with Ted, LOL! Ideology trumps true combat experience
------
Kerry never spent time in a foxhole ever. If he did it would have given him more time to write additional decorations like he did in Nam.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

KarlRove wrote:The jihadist Muslims want to end out way of life just as much as the Germans or Japanese.

I do not believe what you state above for one second. The Muslims were a good sop to replace the USSR as our enemy once the Cold War was over.

Though mean and powerful, the USSR was never the threat to U.S. security that our leaders and the MIC portrayed them to be. They were an economical basket-case, technologically inferior, and one-third destroyed by their war against Germany. They were much more afraid U.S. intentions than we should have been of theirs. But, every empire needs an enemy to survive, and the MIC needed steady revenue. The Cold War lasted for 40 years, when a different tack might have been better.

The Muslims are even less of a threat to America than the USSR was. No Muslim country has 1,600 ICBMs aimed at the heartland of the U.S. like the Russians did, and never will. No Muslim country borders America and no Muslim country has a Navy that can project power internationally (and never will). There are ways to handle the world's Muslims without just warring against them.

Forty years ago, I was a Cold-War hawk and drank the koolaid, and that is how I ended up in Marine Corps. No regrets about serving, but with age comes wisdom. The U.S. needs to stop carrying a club everywhere it goes in the world.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Markle

Markle

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
KarlRove wrote:The jihadist Muslims want to end out way of life just as much as the Germans or Japanese.

I do not believe what you state above for one second. The Muslims were a good sop to replace the USSR as our enemy once the Cold War was over.

Though mean and powerful, the USSR was never the threat to U.S. security that our leaders and the MIC portrayed them to be. They were an economical basket-case, technologically inferior, and one-third destroyed by their war against Germany. They were much more afraid U.S. intentions than we should have been of theirs. But, every empire needs an enemy to survive, and the MIC needed steady revenue. The Cold War lasted for 40 years, when a different tack might have been better.

The Muslims are even less of a threat to America than the USSR was. No Muslim country has 1,600 ICBMs aimed at the heartland of the U.S. like the Russians did, and never will. No Muslim country borders America and no Muslim country has a Navy that can project power internationally (and never will). There are ways to handle the world's Muslims without just warring against them.

Forty years ago, I was a Cold-War hawk and drank the koolaid, and that is how I ended up in Marine Corps. No regrets about serving, but with age comes wisdom. The U.S. needs to stop carrying a club everywhere it goes in the world.

Comfy on that chaise lounge as you float down Denial River?

Another American sniper tosses in the towel and turns anti-Iraq war. RaftingRiver-1

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