Pensacola Discussion Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

This is a forum based out of Pensacola Florida.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » SOTU 15

SOTU 15

+3
knothead
boards of FL
gatorfan
7 posters

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 2]

1SOTU 15 Empty SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 3:49 pm

gatorfan



SOTU 15 is really going to be a stump speech from the Campaigner-in-Chief for the 2016 election. He wants to throw out a handful of shiny objects for his liberal minions to drool over in hopes they will follow the party line and vote in their usual indoctrinated manner. You know, vote for the ones who gives us the “mostest”.

What Obama really needs to talk about is serious tax code reform, a REAL strategy to improve the plight of the disappearing middle class – and it’s not to give away junior college basket weaving scholarships. He also needs to talk about how he is willing to work for bipartisan support in facing the many issues in front of him over the next 2 years.

I doubt he will take the high road though, is he afraid of something?

The Republicans are more than capable of losing the upcoming election cycle on their own since the silent majority of moderates can’t keep the small crew of misguided nutcases muzzled. They are weak and ineffective and combined with truly liberal and equally ineffective lefties on the Dem side will manage once again to accomplish nothing.

Can Obama effect positive change? Not until he decides to work with Congress, however distasteful that may be.

And not until he realizes he represents an entire country, not just one political party.

2SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 3:58 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

Well, shouldn't we, at the very least, allow top tier tax rates to revert back to pre-Bush days? I would actually call for more than that, but at the very least top tier rates should revert back to what they were under Clinton when we were getting perennial surpluses.

And shouldn't tax burdens be reduced for middle and working class demographics? We have all seen the charts which clearly depict gross redistribution of wealth in the US. Shouldn't that be addressed?


_________________
I approve this message.

3SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 3:58 pm

Guest


Guest

It's just political posturing... trying to connive a few populist bargaining chips to usurp legislative control.

At best he'll get small concessions in exchange for his signature. Congratulations comrades.

4SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 4:10 pm

gatorfan



boards of FL wrote:Well, shouldn't we, at the very least, allow top tier tax rates to revert back to pre-Bush days?  I would actually call for more than that, but at the very least top tier rates should revert back to what they were under Clinton when we were getting perennial surpluses.

And shouldn't tax burdens be reduced for middle and working class demographics?  We have all seen the charts which clearly depict gross redistribution of wealth in the US.  Shouldn't that be addressed?

Both of those goals could be achieved along with many others through true tax code reform.

Even a flat tax would be preferable to the monstrosity of a tax code our not so illustrious Congress has foisted on us over several decades of catering to special interests.

When you can call the IRS with a tax question and even they aren't responsible for the legality of the answer they may give you the system is broken.

5SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 4:40 pm

knothead

knothead

I would add that the GOP leadership has indicated they would only consider tax reform if it is revenue neutral obviously for fear of the dreaded Grover Norquist blacklist. Dems are trying to increase revenue from those who can best afford it and have grown very wealthy over the past decade with embarrassingly low tax rates considering their incomes.

6SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 4:56 pm

Guest


Guest

knothead wrote:I would add that the GOP leadership has indicated they would only consider tax reform if it is revenue neutral obviously for fear of the dreaded Grover Norquist blacklist. Dems are trying to increase revenue from those who can best afford it and have grown very wealthy over the past decade with embarrassingly low tax rates considering their incomes.

Lol... if that were indeed the true intent they could've easily done it in 2009... at this point it's populist popcorn.

Bon appetite comrade.

7SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 4:59 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Well, shouldn't we, at the very least, allow top tier tax rates to revert back to pre-Bush days?  I would actually call for more than that, but at the very least top tier rates should revert back to what they were under Clinton when we were getting perennial surpluses.

And shouldn't tax burdens be reduced for middle and working class demographics?  We have all seen the charts which clearly depict gross redistribution of wealth in the US.  Shouldn't that be addressed?

Both of those goals could be achieved along with many others through true tax code reform.

Even a flat tax would be preferable to the monstrosity of a tax code our not so illustrious Congress has foisted on us over several decades of catering to special interests.

When you can call the IRS with a tax question and even they aren't responsible for the legality of the answer they may give you the system is broken.


Repealing the progressive tax system and replacing that with a flat tax for the purpose of addressing the gross trend in wealth redistribution would be like pouring gasoline on a fire for the purpose of putting out the fire.

I'd honestly like to hear your rationale here.  How would increasing taxes for the poor while decreasing taxes for the rich - which is what would happen if we were to replace our current system with a flat tax - help in the area of skewed wealth distribution?

I'm pretty sure the exact opposite needs to happen.


_________________
I approve this message.

8SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 5:04 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

PkrBum wrote:
knothead wrote:I would add that the GOP leadership has indicated they would only consider tax reform if it is revenue neutral obviously for fear of the dreaded Grover Norquist blacklist.  Dems are trying to increase revenue from those who can best afford it and have grown very wealthy over the past decade with embarrassingly low tax rates considering their incomes.

Lol... if that were indeed the true intent they could've easily done it in 2009... at this point it's populist popcorn.

Bon appetite comrade.


This would be a good point if it were even remotely grounded in reality. Democrats and Obama have been calling for increased taxes on the rich for the last six years. Democrats opposed the original Bush tax cuts as well.

But in PkrBum-land, "It's like....trickle down economics, or something! Democrats are, like, totally doing trickle down stuff, or something!!! They just are!!!!1"


_________________
I approve this message.

9SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 5:20 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

I know I am getting taxed to death. I pay over 1000 per month in federal, medicare and SS taxes. It sucks.

10SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 5:22 pm

knothead

knothead

PkrBum wrote:
knothead wrote:I would add that the GOP leadership has indicated they would only consider tax reform if it is revenue neutral obviously for fear of the dreaded Grover Norquist blacklist.  Dems are trying to increase revenue from those who can best afford it and have grown very wealthy over the past decade with embarrassingly low tax rates considering their incomes.

Lol... if that were indeed the true intent they could've easily done it in 2009... at this point it's populist popcorn.

Bon appetite comrade.

I partly agree pkr . . . . politics governs all things and the Democrats undoubtedly did not want the albatross of a tax increase around their neck. The part where we may or may not agree is the construct of the tax rates that should be raised on the wealthiest as well as the advocated change in the estate tax. These changes made by Repubs were persuasive to voters and it is a mantra that always follows their party. It does take courage to tell the electorate the truth and all politicians are reluctant to do that.

11SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 5:25 pm

gatorfan



boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:



Repealing the progressive tax system and replacing that with a flat tax for the purpose of addressing the gross trend in wealth redistribution would be like pouring gasoline on a fire for the purpose of putting out the fire.

I'd honestly like to hear your rationale here.  How would increasing taxes for the poor while decreasing taxes for the rich - which is what would happen if we were to replace our current system with a flat tax - help in the area of skewed wealth distribution?

I'm pretty sure the exact opposite needs to happen.

I disagree. The poor aren't likely to use tax lawyers and every loophole known to man when doing their taxes. They just pay and go, if they pay anything. They more than likely wouldn't see a much of a difference.

Don't think of a "flat tax" in a simplistic 3X5 card tax return format.

Who knows what the final product of a "flat tax" would look like? Would it be income based with higher flat rates for a rise in income levels? Or would everyone (including businesses) simply pay 5% and call it a day? Elimination of millions of special interest loopholes and mind boggling regulations is the goal.

It really won't matter what tax program is in place if Congress won't spend what revenue they have available wisely.

12SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 5:42 pm

boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:I disagree. The poor aren't likely to use tax lawyers and every loophole known to man when doing their taxes. They just pay and go, if they pay anything. They more than likely wouldn't see a much of a difference.


The poor don't need to do any of that. They're poor. They likely include their income on their tax return and that's is. There is nothing else. Then they get a sizable tax return. It's not as if there are massive - yet, completely obscure and unknown - tax breaks out there for someone working two minimum wage jobs who rents. It's not as if the poor are actually doing really well, and then it is only due to a confusing tax code that they get screwed over.

1040ez.


gatorfan wrote:Who knows what the final product of a "flat tax" would look like? Would it be income based with higher flat rates for a rise in income levels?

If it were, then it wouldn't be 'flat tax'.


_________________
I approve this message.

13SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 6:59 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

1040EZ is for those filing for less than 100k

14SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 6:59 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

Or who that itemize

15SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/19/2015, 7:00 pm

KarlRove

KarlRove

Or those that have less than 1500 earned interest

16SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/20/2015, 10:16 am

gatorfan



boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:I disagree. The poor aren't likely to use tax lawyers and every loophole known to man when doing their taxes. They just pay and go, if they pay anything. They more than likely wouldn't see a much of a difference.


The poor don't need to do any of that.  They're poor.  They likely include their income on their tax return and that's is.  There is nothing else.  Then they get a sizable tax return.  It's not as if there are massive - yet, completely obscure and unknown - tax breaks out there for someone working two minimum wage jobs who rents.  It's not as if the poor are actually doing really well, and then it is only due to a confusing tax code that they get screwed over.  

1040ez.


gatorfan wrote:Who knows what the final product of a "flat tax" would look like? Would it be income based with higher flat rates for a rise in income levels?

If it were, then it wouldn't be 'flat tax'.  

I was pretty sure you would ignore this: Don't think of a "flat tax" in a simplistic 3X5 card tax return format.

Amazing.

17SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/20/2015, 10:26 am

boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:I was pretty sure you would ignore this: Don't think of a "flat tax" in a simplistic 3X5 card tax return format.

Amazing.


I didn't ignore that. You ignored the 'flat' part of 'flat tax'.


_________________
I approve this message.

18SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/20/2015, 10:26 am

2seaoat



Flat tax as a tool to address the disappearing middle class and the growing wealth disparity.......we now have two economist on this forum who have stated solutions to inflation and wealth disparity which have to get the Nobel awards in economics.........the not too much talked about award......the box of rocks award.

19SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/20/2015, 10:33 am

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

KarlRove wrote:I know I am getting taxed to death. I pay over 1000 per month in federal, medicare and SS taxes. It sucks.

Then by all means support any legislative effort to increase taxes on the ultra rich and cut corporate tax loopholes. Your taxes will drop as the bloodsuckers get squeezed.

As a republican living in a country where 1% will soon hold 50% of the country's cash, while you and the rest of the middle class continues to lose economic ground, and then scream to cut corporate taxes makes just as much sense as writing on the blackboard a thousand times: Trickle down works. Trickle down works. Trickle down works. Trickle down works ....

Reality.

20SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/20/2015, 10:33 am

gatorfan



boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:I was pretty sure you would ignore this: Don't think of a "flat tax" in a simplistic 3X5 card tax return format.

Amazing.


I didn't ignore that.  You ignored the 'flat' part of 'flat tax'.  

I know what the established thinking is about a flat tax drone. 1 rate for everyone. I thought this was an informal forum where people could discuss out of the box ideas, obviously that is too much to ask. Apparently you are too linear to participate in spite of your faux interest.

21SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/20/2015, 10:36 am

gatorfan



2seaoat wrote:Flat tax as a tool to address the disappearing middle class and the growing wealth disparity.......we now have two economist on this forum who have stated solutions to inflation and wealth disparity which have to get the Nobel awards in economics.........the not too much talked about award......the box of rocks award.

And you are too narcissistic to think at all. Your only contribution here is to criticize. Drone Jr. Boy I love a parade! There is no need for you to regale us with a MOOC on how to address the disappearing middle class, you have nothing to offer.

22SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/20/2015, 11:10 am

boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:I was pretty sure you would ignore this: Don't think of a "flat tax" in a simplistic 3X5 card tax return format.

Amazing.


I didn't ignore that.  You ignored the 'flat' part of 'flat tax'.  

I know what the established thinking is about a flat tax drone. 1 rate for everyone. I thought this was an informal forum where people could discuss out of the box ideas, obviously that is too much to ask. Apparently you are too linear to participate in spite of your faux interest.


You proposed a "flat tax" and then gave an explanation for that that mirrors the progressive tax system that we already have.

That isn't an example of "thinking outside of the box". That is an example of "proposing what we already have, but with new, incorrect terminology."


_________________
I approve this message.

23SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/20/2015, 11:20 am

gatorfan



boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:I was pretty sure you would ignore this: Don't think of a "flat tax" in a simplistic 3X5 card tax return format.

Amazing.


I didn't ignore that.  You ignored the 'flat' part of 'flat tax'.  

I know what the established thinking is about a flat tax drone. 1 rate for everyone. I thought this was an informal forum where people could discuss out of the box ideas, obviously that is too much to ask. Apparently you are too linear to participate in spite of your faux interest.


You proposed a "flat tax" and then gave an explanation for that that mirrors the progressive tax system that we already have.

That isn't an example of "thinking outside of the box".  That is an example of "proposing what we already have, but with new, incorrect terminology."


It would be unusual for you to consider a total thread discussion instead of cherry picking your talking points.

You are incorrect in thinking we have this: "Elimination of millions of special interest loopholes and mind boggling regulations is the goal."

I find it amusing that you somehow think you are more aware of issues than you really are.

Narrow minded people are a hoot.

24SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/20/2015, 11:23 am

KarlRove

KarlRove

by 2seaoat Today at 11:26 am
Flat tax as a tool to address the disappearing middle class and the growing wealth disparity.......we now have two economist on this forum who have stated solutions to inflation and wealth disparity which have to get the Nobel awards in economics.........the not too much talked about award......the box of rocks award.
----
Obama won the NPP.... So if he won it, what's it really worth?

25SOTU 15 Empty Re: SOTU 15 1/20/2015, 11:29 am

boards of FL

boards of FL

gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
gatorfan wrote:I was pretty sure you would ignore this: Don't think of a "flat tax" in a simplistic 3X5 card tax return format.

Amazing.


I didn't ignore that.  You ignored the 'flat' part of 'flat tax'.  

I know what the established thinking is about a flat tax drone. 1 rate for everyone. I thought this was an informal forum where people could discuss out of the box ideas, obviously that is too much to ask. Apparently you are too linear to participate in spite of your faux interest.


You proposed a "flat tax" and then gave an explanation for that that mirrors the progressive tax system that we already have.

That isn't an example of "thinking outside of the box".  That is an example of "proposing what we already have, but with new, incorrect terminology."


It would be unusual for you to consider a total thread discussion instead of cherry picking your talking points.

You are incorrect in thinking we have this: "Elimination of millions of special interest loopholes and mind boggling regulations is the goal."

I find it amusing that you somehow think you are more aware of issues than you really are.

Narrow minded people are a hoot.


We could eliminate the "millions of special interest loopholes", but that wouldn't bring us to a "flat tax". Nothing you described remotely approaches a "flat tax". A "flat tax" would be a disastrous idea; hence why I wanted to see you defend it.

Wouldn't it be easier to just respond with "Yeah. You're right. A flat tax would be a terrible idea" rather than trying to redefine what a "flat tax" is?

Do you want to be right, or do you want to get it right?


_________________
I approve this message.

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 2]

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » SOTU 15

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum