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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Indict Cheney and Bush for torture !

Indict Cheney and Bush for torture !

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KarlRove
Floridatexan
TEOTWAWKI
7 posters

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TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/12/09/calls-grow-dick-cheney-george-w-bush-prosecuted-torture.html

International law prohibits the granting of immunities to public officials who have engaged in acts of torture. This applies not only to the actual perpetrators but also to those senior officials within the US Government who devised, planned and authorised these crimes.

Indict Cheney and Bush for torture ! 0BushCheneyPrison-755146

The odds of the Bush administration officials being turned over for prosecution are zero, but those who have referred to the Bush administration as war criminals have new justifications for their claims.

Guest


Guest

I have no problem with it... as long as this administration is held accountable for drone killing innocent civilians.

Considering that the dems are now in favor of disclosure and transparency... I also want a full accounting of gunrunning, wiretapping, media intimidation, benghazi, bombing and overthrowing sovereign nations w/o congressional approval, irs targeting... etc.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Indict Cheney and Bush for torture ! ObamaInJail

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


There is no equivalent behavior from Obama, except allowing the Bush crowd to skate. That was a mistake.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Floridatexan wrote:
There is no equivalent behavior from Obama, except allowing the Bush crowd to skate.  That was a mistake.
you are in deep denial.......


Indict Cheney and Bush for torture ! Obamadrones

Guest


Guest

PkrBum wrote:I have no problem with it... as long as this administration is held accountable for drone killing innocent civilians.

Considering that the dems are now in favor of disclosure and transparency... I also want a full accounting of gunrunning, wiretapping, media intimidation, benghazi, bombing and overthrowing sovereign nations w/o congressional approval, irs targeting... etc.

Indict Cheney and Bush for torture ! Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTj7j1pnp3dEe-FPJbjpUmuQkYnMRLm2mCiZnQMgzHpcZHVQVT9UA

Then there's also the fact that the Obama administration is just as guilty of continuing the torture of prisoners and their continued imprisonment at Guantanamo.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diOuUYcenW0

Smile



Last edited by Damaged Eagle on 12/10/2014, 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Indict Cheney and Bush for torture ! Awlaki-killing-of-american

KarlRove

KarlRove

Floridatexan wrote:
There is no equivalent behavior from Obama, except allowing the Bush crowd to skate.  That was a mistake.

Alwaki's son 17, American citizen, no due process, dead by drone strike hmmmmmmm, you are clueless

Guest


Guest

Even the gunrunning to mexican cartels lead to hundreds of deaths of innocents...

and obama used executive privilege to thwart justice and transparency. Yea team..!!

2seaoat



There is a conceptual difference. The treatment of prisoner's and the use of torture is a clear moral and legal standard. The use of force in nation states which harbor terrorists under continuing resolutions of congress are acts of war. Is the collateral damage of war, a war crime? Historically, there are very specific standards which must be met. Sadly, there is no clear moral or legal standard. Civilians in Dresden who were fire bombed, or people in Hiroshima who were vaporized are the collateral damage of war and although history has shown moral outrage, it is all together another matter to elevate the same to a legal war crime. The use of drones under the continuing resolution may be bad policy, but it is not a war crime. It could however be elevated to the same if without nexus and with the purpose to kill innocent civilians a government initiated policy which began terrorizing innocent civilians instead of alleged terrorist.

Guest


Guest

http://m.democracynow.org/stories/14215

A new report has revealed that a U.S. drone strike that killed at least a dozen people in Yemen in December failed to comply with rules imposed by President Obama last year to protect civilians. The strike was carried out by the U.S. military’s Joint Special Operations Command and targeted vehicles that were part of a wedding procession going towards the groom’s village outside the central Yemeni city of Rad’a. According to the Human Rights Watch investigation, quote, "some, if not all those killed and wounded were civilians" and not members of the armed group al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula as U.S. and Yemeni government officials initially claimed.

Wikipedia: Since 2004, the United States government has attacked hundreds of targets in Northwest Pakistan using unmanned aerial vehicles (drones) controlled by the Central Intelligence Agency's Special Activities Division. [21] Most of these attacks are on targets in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas along the Afghan border in Northwest Pakistan.

These strikes began during the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, and have increased substantially under U.S. President Barack Obama. [22] Some in the media have referred to the attacks as a "drone war". [23][24] Initially the U.S. government had officially denied the extent of its policy; in May 2013 it acknowledged for the first time that four U.S. citizens had been killed in the strikes. [25] Surveys have shown that the strikes are deeply unpopular in Pakistan, where they have contributed to a negative perception of the United States. [26]

There is a debate regarding the number of civilian and militant casualties. An estimated 286 to 890 civilians have been killed, including 168 to 197 children. [19][20] Amnesty International found that a number of victims were unarmed and that some strikes could amount to war crimes. [27]

Pakistan's Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, has repeatedly demanded an end to the strikes, stating: "The use of drones is not only a continual violation of our territorial integrity but also detrimental to our resolve and efforts at eliminating terrorism from our country". [28] The Peshawar High Court has ruled that the attacks are illegal, inhumane, violate the UN charter on human rights and constitute a war crime. [29] The Obama administration disagrees, contending that the attacks do not violate international law and that the method of attack is precise and effective. [28][30]

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

PkrBum wrote:I have no problem with it... as long as this administration is held accountable for drone killing innocent civilians.

Considering that the dems are now in favor of disclosure and transparency... I also want a full accounting of gunrunning, wiretapping, media intimidation, benghazi, bombing and overthrowing sovereign nations w/o congressional approval, irs targeting... etc.


I agree with you that the perpetrators of torturing captives should be prosecuted and imprisoned if found guilty.

That includes Obama and the use of assassination drones.

Where we differ, is I don't predicate my support of punishing wrongdoing based on which sick, wholly-owned American political party the alleged perpetrator(s) represent.

Wrong is wrong no matter which party is involved.

Screw Amerika Inc. Corporate control of our government through campaign financing.

Guest


Guest

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2014/12/05/commentary/world-commentary/u-s-drones-kill-28-innocents-for-every-bad-guy/#.VInLzMq2VBM

One example is Qari Hussain, who was a deputy commander of the Pakistani Taliban. A Hellfire missile fired by one of Obama’s Predator drones blew up Hussain on Oct. 15 , 2010. To the president, this was a success.

What the White House doesn’t say, however, is there were five previous drone attacks against Hussain. All five failed, killing scores of innocent people.“For the death of a man whom practically no American can name, the U.S. killed 128 people, 13 of them children, none of whom it meant to harm.”

The 128 civilians-to-one-militant death ratio doesn’t even address the legality of targeting Hussain himself, in violation of a 30 -year-old executive order banning political assassinations, not to mention the long-standing U.S. political tradition prohibiting such actions. All drone assassinations are illegal, but the sloppiness of this program is insane.


Al-Qaida leader Ayman Zawahiri, for example, has survived two drone attacks that killed 76 children and 29 adults.

According to Reprieve’s analysis as of Nov. 2 4th, 1,147 people were killed in attempts to kill 41 men.

“Drone strikes have been sold to the American public on the claim that they’re ‘precise,” Jennifer Gibson of Reprieve told the Guardian. “But they are only as precise as the intelligence that feeds them.There is nothing precise about intelligence that results in the deaths of 28 unknown people, including women and children, forevery “bad guy” the U.S. goes after.”

boards of FL

boards of FL

Here again, I'd rather be having a conversation about the use of drones within an economy that is adding millions of private sector jobs while growing at a rate of 3.9% annually and with low inflation...than having a conversation about not one, but two costly wars/occupations that run in the the trillions in the midst of the worst economy since the great depression and a net loss in private sector jobs over an 8 year period.

Results matter, comrades.


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I approve this message.

Sal

Sal

boards of FL wrote:Here again, I'd rather be having a conversation about the use of drones within an economy that is adding millions of private sector jobs while growing at a rate of 3.9% annually and with low inflation...than having a conversation about not one, but two costly wars/occupations that run in the the trillions in the midst of the worst economy since the great depression and a net loss in private sector jobs over an 8 year period.

Results matter, comrades.

You beat me to it.

The debate is not about having a policy of torturing detainees vs the drone program, it's about having a policy of torturing detainees vs having a policy prohibiting the torture of detainees.

I'm not particularly fond of the drone program either, but if you want to talk civilian casualties, then the debate should be having a policy of targeted attacks via drone vs full bore invasion and occupation.

In that debate, the score becomes rather lopsided on one side again.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Sal wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Here again, I'd rather be having a conversation about the use of drones within an economy that is adding millions of private sector jobs while growing at a rate of 3.9% annually and with low inflation...than having a conversation about not one, but two costly wars/occupations that run in the the trillions in the midst of the worst economy since the great depression and a net loss in private sector jobs over an 8 year period.

Results matter, comrades.

You beat me to it.

The debate is not about having a policy of torturing detainees vs the drone program, it's about having a policy of torturing detainees vs having a policy prohibiting the torture of detainees.

I'm not particularly fond of the drone program either, but if you want to talk civilian casualties, then the debate should be having a policy of targeted attacks via drone vs full bore invasion and occupation.

In that debate, the score becomes rather lopsided on one side again.
That's the same ole Bullshit reason that "justified" dropping the A- bombs on the Japanese....you situational ethicists are so slimey.

Sal

Sal

TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Sal wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Here again, I'd rather be having a conversation about the use of drones within an economy that is adding millions of private sector jobs while growing at a rate of 3.9% annually and with low inflation...than having a conversation about not one, but two costly wars/occupations that run in the the trillions in the midst of the worst economy since the great depression and a net loss in private sector jobs over an 8 year period.

Results matter, comrades.

You beat me to it.

The debate is not about having a policy of torturing detainees vs the drone program, it's about having a policy of torturing detainees vs having a policy prohibiting the torture of detainees.

I'm not particularly fond of the drone program either, but if you want to talk civilian casualties, then the debate should be having a policy of targeted attacks via drone vs full bore invasion and occupation.

In that debate, the score becomes rather lopsided on one side again.
That's the same ole Bullshit reason that "justified" dropping the A- bombs on the Japanese....you situational ethicists are so slimey.

No, it's not.

Its simply about being a grownup with the capacity to gauge degrees of unfortunate, but inevitable, outcomes.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

It's about making the wholesale slaughter of other people easy without any danger to you. The perfect military. Like some kind of angry god we rain brimstone from the heavens on the scurrying crowds below. Omnipotent omniscient gods..no...bunch of drooling serial killers, murderers with a new toy is what it really is.


War should be painful for all concerned or it becomes too easy.

Guest


Guest

Leftist ethics and sensibilities rely on how a given situation is framed and who is charge of it.

Otherwise the cia in charge of torture and the cia in charge of targeted assassinations might be hard to swallow.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

PkrBum wrote:I have no problem with it... as long as this administration is held accountable for drone killing innocent civilians.

Considering that the dems are now in favor of disclosure and transparency... I also want a full accounting of gunrunning, wiretapping, media intimidation, benghazi, bombing and overthrowing sovereign nations w/o congressional approval, irs targeting... etc.

Pathetic, as usual. You got your answer on Benghazi; the supposed scandal at the IRS was a desperate attempt to hide GOP donors' identities and the extremely partisan activities of these tax-exempt organizations...and no doubt the Justice Dept. was looking into these activities; the gunrunning began under Bush, as did the wiretapping...as early as February 2001. As for the military activity, nothing Obama has done is even close to what Bush and Cheney perpetrated. So you'd like the criminals held accountable, so long as there's another witch hunt for Obama. Got it.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Floridatexan wrote:
PkrBum wrote:I have no problem with it... as long as this administration is held accountable for drone killing innocent civilians.

Considering that the dems are now in favor of disclosure and transparency... I also want a full accounting of gunrunning, wiretapping, media intimidation, benghazi, bombing and overthrowing sovereign nations w/o congressional approval, irs targeting... etc.

Pathetic, as usual.  You got your answer on Benghazi; the supposed scandal at the IRS was a desperate attempt to hide GOP donors' identities and the extremely partisan activities of these tax-exempt organizations...and no doubt the Justice Dept. was looking into these activities; the gunrunning began under Bush, as did the wiretapping...as early as February 2001.  As for the military activity, nothing Obama has done is even close to what Bush and Cheney perpetrated.  So you'd like the criminals held accountable, so long as there's another witch hunt for Obama.  Got it.
Do you get sand in your ears while you have your head buried ?

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
PkrBum wrote:I have no problem with it... as long as this administration is held accountable for drone killing innocent civilians.

Considering that the dems are now in favor of disclosure and transparency... I also want a full accounting of gunrunning, wiretapping, media intimidation, benghazi, bombing and overthrowing sovereign nations w/o congressional approval, irs targeting... etc.

Pathetic, as usual.  You got your answer on Benghazi; the supposed scandal at the IRS was a desperate attempt to hide GOP donors' identities and the extremely partisan activities of these tax-exempt organizations...and no doubt the Justice Dept. was looking into these activities; the gunrunning began under Bush, as did the wiretapping...as early as February 2001.  As for the military activity, nothing Obama has done is even close to what Bush and Cheney perpetrated.  So you'd like the criminals held accountable, so long as there's another witch hunt for Obama.  Got it.
Do you get sand in your ears while you have your head buried ?

Indict Cheney and Bush for torture ! Poster_of_the_movie_The_Neanderthal_Man

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Floridatexan wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
PkrBum wrote:I have no problem with it... as long as this administration is held accountable for drone killing innocent civilians.

Considering that the dems are now in favor of disclosure and transparency... I also want a full accounting of gunrunning, wiretapping, media intimidation, benghazi, bombing and overthrowing sovereign nations w/o congressional approval, irs targeting... etc.

Pathetic, as usual.  You got your answer on Benghazi; the supposed scandal at the IRS was a desperate attempt to hide GOP donors' identities and the extremely partisan activities of these tax-exempt organizations...and no doubt the Justice Dept. was looking into these activities; the gunrunning began under Bush, as did the wiretapping...as early as February 2001.  As for the military activity, nothing Obama has done is even close to what Bush and Cheney perpetrated.  So you'd like the criminals held accountable, so long as there's another witch hunt for Obama.  Got it.
Do you get sand in your ears while you have your head buried ?

Indict Cheney and Bush for torture ! Poster_of_the_movie_The_Neanderthal_ManYES and ?

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