19 firefighters lost in wild fire battle in AZ

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/01/19224279-perfect-storm-wildfire-raging-in-arizona-claims-19-men-in-elite-unit?lite

This is crazy weather.....my prayers to their families.........

This is a huge story......they were all from the same department at Prescott.....devastating to their families and to the community. I just wish they had some other backup plan when they have people fighting this close. A helicopter which could douse the fire once they have retreated to their fire protection tents.....but we are starting with temps at 130 degrees.....this is so very very sad.

I am dealing with the 10th major flood in 10 years, and this portion of the US is simply having record highs. Global warming has extreme swings in weather, and sadly there is a very high price being paid for the same with lives and lost homes and businesses. I am ready to give up on the flooding. 110 years of river gages, and now the top 10 flood events have happened in the last decade......Death Valley is about to set a record high, and these western communities are simply at risk of fire.......these are very brave men and women who fight a wild fire. I have set natural burns and when the wind changes there is little time for retreat......very very dangerous things these folks do for us, and it is only getting more dangerous as this climate change accelerates extremes.

very sad:( 

Who coulda seen this coming?

But the longer-term trend in large, longer-lasting fires looks to be driven at least in part by global warming, which most atmospheric scientists attribute to a build-up of carbon-dioxide in the atmosphere - released through burning fossil fuels and through land-use changes. Researchers documented the change in a study published in 2006 - in the middle of a four-year period when wildfires consistently consumed more than 8 million acres a year in the US. The increase in larger fires began somewhat abruptly in the mid-1980s, according to the study, which analyzed fire, climate and hydrological data between 1970 and 2004. "This jump means something more than just the fuels," says Swetnam, a member of the research team, referring to a buildup in scrub growth and brush in some terrain that has also fueled wildfires. The increase in larger, longer-lasting fires was most pronounced in the northern Rockies and at high elevations. "That argued more in favor of a climate effect than a Smokey Bear effect" in which humans have contributed to a buildup in fuels by interfering in natural fire cycles, he says. The climate change manifests itself as warmer temperatures and earlier springlike temperatures, which increases the likelihood of longer dry spells.


http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2011/0609/Monster-wildfire-in-Arizona-A-glimpse-of-what-climate-change-could-bring

The Great Global Climate Change Hoax continues to kill people.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the firemen, their families, and the remaining firefighters still on the scene.

Very sad day. Thoughts and prayers with that town and the families of the firefighters.

2seaoat wrote:This is a huge story......they were all from the same department at Prescott.....devastating to their families and to the community.  I just wish they had some other backup plan when they have people fighting this close.  A helicopter which could douse the fire once they have retreated to their fire protection tents.....but we are starting with temps at 130 degrees.....this is so very very sad.

Maybe reverse 911 so the neighbors could fight the fire or maybe more cutbacks to the fire service manpower would have done the trick.

Bring back the bucket brigade ?

Maybe reverse 911 so the neighbors could fight the fire or maybe more cutbacks to the fire service manpower would have done the trick.


It could have gotten people out as the winds changed in real time, and I really do not see putting these assets and people in harms way to save a few isolated homes. When regional planning allows folks to build in the middle of nowhere, there are limits to what a fire department can do to protect their property in a wildfire.....sadly.....sometimes the focus should be on saving lives, and the property be damned. I have a real problem with this deployment and putting so many so close to the risk, and throwing more men into the firestorm............my daughter's friend lost her home in the Colorado fires last week.....I bet if you ask her whether one fireman's life is worth her home her answer would be no........

2seaoat wrote:Maybe reverse 911 so the neighbors could fight the fire or maybe more cutbacks to the fire service manpower would have done the trick.


It could have gotten people out as the winds changed in real time, and I really do not see putting these assets and people in harms way to save a few isolated homes.   When regional planning allows folks to build in the middle of nowhere, there are limits to what a fire department can do to protect their property in a wildfire.....sadly.....sometimes the focus should be on saving lives, and the property be damned.  I have a real problem with this deployment and putting so many so close to the risk, and throwing more men into the firestorm............my daughter's friend lost her home in the Colorado fires last week.....I bet if you ask her whether one fireman's life is worth her home her answer would be no........

      Let me piece this incredibly uninformed response out one tid bit at a time.  First and foremost, firefighters since the dawn of time have always put saving lives in front of trying to save a structure.   These brave men died because they were trying to slow the progress of a huge fire that was bearing down on lives in the area.  Secondly, no amount of reverse 911 in the world can make people leave their homes when they are of the deluded belief that they can save what they own by spraying and praying...that is, spraying a garden hose on their roof and praying for a change in wind direction.   My post above was sarcasm aimed at you seaoat who for years have preached cutbacks to the fire service while at the same time espousing completely unattainable and ludicrous dreams of neighbors fighting their own fires and handling their own emergencies.   I had to laugh at your post above because at least I know that although you may really think this is sad, you don't really give two shits for the lives of those firemen. I don't mean this to be so harsh on seaoat. He is one of my favorite posters, doesn't take sides and tells it like it is. I wish him the best. I just know his stance on the fire service in general....been like that for years.

My stance remains the same on fire services. First, in an urban environment reverse 911 can save lives. Second, what would happen if we just made it a policy to let structures burn to the ground........just get people out, and not try to save structures......contain.....but let them burn to the ground. Now look at the total resources which have been poured into protective services since 2001.....are we any safer. Sorry budgetary explosions about wish lists versus hard core necessity will not have me backing off one inch from my positions which I have held for the last decade. I share office space with a retired fire chief that got everything his heart wanted in the last decade, and often on mutual aid calls has multiple expensive pieces of equipment jamming up in front of a fire......no, I had a friend who just passed who was seriously burned in a training exercise on a volunteer fire department and spent the rest of his life with pain.....because he volunteered to protect and serve his community......sorry when it comes to these blank checks which are being given to fire departments......if you are critical of the budgets....you then are told you do not give a rat's tail about dead firefighters....two distinct issues. I think we are spending in excess of 30% too much for fire protection in this country......with improved building codes, smoke alarms, and even more improved video which is being built into our 911 systems, we should be able to do more with less.....but like the old chief said......911 let him get his dream team.......and he knows that the decade long spending spree was not necessarily the best use of resources. I remain a continuing critic of current deployments.

Such a waste of young productive lives.........I hope the firefighter who survived can describe what happened so that future training can avoid this situation.

I lived in California for a while and they are idiots there. The people living in the fire prone areas are not allowed to clear the brush away from their houses by law....just plain stupid endangering all these lives for some reason I can't understand.
These were good men no doubt and they deserve better leadership at the very top. We spend zillions to monitor what I am typing on the internet and what a waste.

I just heard that the 21 year old lookout survived.......he is in tough position.......I will need a great deal more information than the news provided, but survival guilt will be part of his life......these people were so very young.

More than likely it was oxygen deprivation that got to them...a fire that big can literally suck all the oxygen out of the air. I would like to know who was in charge and where the planes were. I have wondered...if we can pipe oil across the country, why can't we pipe water as well? If they can reclaim desert and semi-arid regions in Africa, why can't we do the same here in the US?

FT. Some articles that I have read blamed sequester on the grounding of some aerial resources. I dont know the validity of those reports.