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Obamacare, they should have READ IT, and it is going to hit home on the Hill soon

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cool1
2seaoat
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Guest


Guest

othershoe1030 wrote:
[color=blue]It is odd that you now claim you don't care whose idea the individual mandate was however you called the people calling for it an immoral group. So the Heritage Foundation is also an immoral group to you?

Obamacare, they should have READ IT, and it is going to hit home on the Hill soon - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqemmen-CFAb9lyPiB8aXCdl84nso3zZZlJiAFzlLc3Xu1GWTlmg

You're attempting to call something that forces people to buy from a private business/company a tax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_mandate

Health insurance in the US

In the United States, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act signed in 2010 imposes a health insurance mandate to take effect in 2014. In 2010, a number of states joined litigation in federal court arguing that Congress did not have the power to pass this law and that power to "regulate" commerce does not include an affirmative power to compel commerce by penalizing inaction. On June 28, 2012, the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the health insurance mandate as a valid tax, and thus within Congress' tax and spend powers.


If it's a tax then everyone should be paying it to the federal, state, or local, government and not some private business/company.

If we're going to start out-sourcing tax collection to private businesses/companies then what the hell do we need government for in the first place? Just let the businesses/companies run the country and we can just pay them without the middleman.

As for the rest of your post then JUST FRAKKING DO NATIONALIZE IT ALREADY....

...But I think there's going to be a lot of doctors who are going to be disappointed drawing O-1 through O-5 pay.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTKu-L1b--o

Smile



Last edited by Damaged Eagle on 4/19/2013, 6:02 am; edited 4 times in total

Guest


Guest

PBulldog2 wrote:
William wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:

A moral group of people does not force others to purchase something from a private business, just because they happen to be breathing, by making government legislation.




Let us not forget where the idea of the individual mandate originated:

Funny how it is all in the "framing". Back when the Heritage Foundation thought individual mandates were great they said it was to make sure that EVERYONE TOOK PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN HEALTH INSURANCE/CARE, you know, so that those who dug in their heels and didn't want to do the responsible thing were not carried along like MOOCHERS on the health insurance premiums the rest of us pay.



I don't give a FRAK where individual mandates originated. The moochers you talk about will be there regardless what is done. Just look at the government entitlement system and how if you don't want to work you don't have too.

If you think healthcare should be available to all as a basic right then nationalize the GOD DAMNED industry. While we're at it I mean ALL people are covered by it in the same way and all people working for the industry are paid off a federal pay scale. Let's make it simple for our Congressmen/women to do their job and anyone receiving federal money for pay are on one pay system/scale like the military pay scale. Nurses get paid enlisted pay while doctors and specialists are paid as officers. One pay scale for our Congressmen to decide the pay increase for ALL federal employees should make their job a lot easier.

*****SMILE*****


It is odd that you now claim you don't care whose idea the individual mandate was however you called the people calling for it an immoral group. So the Heritage Foundation is also an immoral group to you?

I agree with your recipe for curing the system, just nationalize it and pay doctors etc. a set fee. That's what they do in Great Britain and it seems to suit them. Doctors don't make the super-mega buck they do here but they don't have to pay for mal-practice insurance either. The system is completely different and everyone is covered. I think you are on to something here.

I also agree with PBull's great letter shooting down so many standard talking points brought up by those who are in love with the pre-aca system

....................................

About 5 years ago, I suggested that we form a National Healthcare Corps as a branch of the DoD. Transfer the VA to it and build more treatment facilities and hospitals. Treatment at those facilities would be aimed at the general public with a yearly premium. The treatment they received would be equivalent to what is available at DoD Hospitals, and no person is turned away.

To staff those facilities, use the same system as the DoD. Give scholarships to qualified med students who in return owe at least 8 years of service to the Corps.

Leave existing healthcare systems in place with the Health Corps relieving a lot of the strain on the private system.

As you can probably guess, I was not just shouted down...I was accused of being a commie, etc.


I don't recall that conversation, William, but I do think it's a good idea. And I've been called a commie more times on this forum than I can count. Ce la vie.

.........................................

Thanx PB. I considered sending that suggestion to Pres. Obama and then laffed at the notion. LOL

Markle

Markle

2seaoat wrote:Single payer has always been the path to sanity. It will liberate our industrial base to free themselves of costs, and it will finally streamline and take unnecessary costs out of the system. What I think people must also understand, that any system will have limits. I understand that under the single payer system of Medicare, that my current two shots will be limited to just one shot per month, and that if I am fortunate enough to make it that far, I will shortly thereafter pass because of the lack of the second shot.

We must recognize that single payer does not mean utopia, but simply efficient and cost effective delivery of medical care to all our citizens. Mr. Markle is quick to point out the failings of other countries medical systems, but fails to see our own failings. We can and must do better, and the Affordable Care Act in its imperfection is the beacon of hope that we can finally start doing things efficiently and equitably for Americans.
[b]

Yes, single payer works so well in Canada and Great Britain.

And no, in Great Britain, you'd already be on their Liverpool Pathway which is their Death Panels way of CUTTING COSTS.

Many patients, nor even their own families know they are on the "path". They are not told. The drugs and other things are simply withheld until their demise. Presto, costs cut.

Since England is going broke on their current health care plan, they are expanding their PRIVATE Practice allowed in their country. In other words, the wealthy, who can afford private health insurance, or pay cash, and get a different caliber of health care.

Markle

Markle

othershoe1030 wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:

A moral group of people does not force others to purchase something from a private business, just because they happen to be breathing, by making government legislation.




Let us not forget where the idea of the individual mandate originated:

Funny how it is all in the "framing". Back when the Heritage Foundation thought individual mandates were great they said it was to make sure that EVERYONE TOOK PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN HEALTH INSURANCE/CARE, you know, so that those who dug in their heels and didn't want to do the responsible thing were not carried along like MOOCHERS on the health insurance premiums the rest of us pay.



I don't give a FRAK where individual mandates originated. The moochers you talk about will be there regardless what is done. Just look at the government entitlement system and how if you don't want to work you don't have too.

If you think healthcare should be available to all as a basic right then nationalize the GOD DAMNED industry. While we're at it I mean ALL people are covered by it in the same way and all people working for the industry are paid off a federal pay scale. Let's make it simple for our Congressmen/women to do their job and anyone receiving federal money for pay are on one pay system/scale like the military pay scale. Nurses get paid enlisted pay while doctors and specialists are paid as officers. One pay scale for our Congressmen to decide the pay increase for ALL federal employees should make their job a lot easier.

*****SMILE*****


It is odd that you now claim you don't care whose idea the individual mandate was however you called the people calling for it an immoral group. So the Heritage Foundation is also an immoral group to you?

I agree with your recipe for curing the system, just nationalize it and pay doctors etc. a set fee. That's what they do in Great Britain and it seems to suit them. Doctors don't make the super-mega buck they do here but they don't have to pay for mal-practice insurance either. The system is completely different and everyone is covered. I think you are on to something here.

I also agree with PBull's great letter shooting down so many standard talking points brought up by those who are in love with the pre-aca system

Thousands of Elderly Breast Cancer Patients Denied Surgery in Britain
Wednesday, June 15, 2011

In Great Britain thousands of breast cancer patients are being denied life-saving surgery due to their age.

Younger patients are more likely to get the surgery.

http://tinyurl.com/3ee7jod

###


The Liverpool Care Pathway to dignity in death


My grandfather’s lingering demise shows why we need protocols for palliative care
By Dr Max Pemberton
6:07PM GMT 13 Jan 2013

The Association for Palliative Medicine, which represents 1,000 doctors specialising in care for dying people, published new guidance last week and warned of a growing shortage of clinicians with expertise in the field. They also warned that inadequate monitoring of the use of the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) as well as wide variations in standards have helped sow confusion and fear among patients – and even among doctors.

What really shocked me was the claim by the head of the association, Dr. Bee Wee, who said she’d heard that, because of recent media reports about the LCP, some patients were now so afraid of being placed on the pathway that they were reluctant to be admitted to hospital to get the treatment they needed. This is a desperately sad situation and confirmed my worst fears about the fallout from the recent media horror stories.

Read more:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/elderhealth/9796968/The-Liverpool-Care-Pathway-to-dignity-in-death.html

Link above repaired



Last edited by Markle on 4/20/2013, 5:36 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Repair link)

Guest


Guest

Markle wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:

A moral group of people does not force others to purchase something from a private business, just because they happen to be breathing, by making government legislation.




Let us not forget where the idea of the individual mandate originated:

Funny how it is all in the "framing". Back when the Heritage Foundation thought individual mandates were great they said it was to make sure that EVERYONE TOOK PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN HEALTH INSURANCE/CARE, you know, so that those who dug in their heels and didn't want to do the responsible thing were not carried along like MOOCHERS on the health insurance premiums the rest of us pay.



I don't give a FRAK where individual mandates originated. The moochers you talk about will be there regardless what is done. Just look at the government entitlement system and how if you don't want to work you don't have too.

If you think healthcare should be available to all as a basic right then nationalize the GOD DAMNED industry. While we're at it I mean ALL people are covered by it in the same way and all people working for the industry are paid off a federal pay scale. Let's make it simple for our Congressmen/women to do their job and anyone receiving federal money for pay are on one pay system/scale like the military pay scale. Nurses get paid enlisted pay while doctors and specialists are paid as officers. One pay scale for our Congressmen to decide the pay increase for ALL federal employees should make their job a lot easier.

*****SMILE*****


It is odd that you now claim you don't care whose idea the individual mandate was however you called the people calling for it an immoral group. So the Heritage Foundation is also an immoral group to you?

I agree with your recipe for curing the system, just nationalize it and pay doctors etc. a set fee. That's what they do in Great Britain and it seems to suit them. Doctors don't make the super-mega buck they do here but they don't have to pay for mal-practice insurance either. The system is completely different and everyone is covered. I think you are on to something here.

I also agree with PBull's great letter shooting down so many standard talking points brought up by those who are in love with the pre-aca system

Thousands of Elderly Breast Cancer Patients Denied Surgery in Britain
Wednesday, June 15, 2011

In Great Britain thousands of breast cancer patients are being denied life-saving surgery due to their age.

Younger patients are more likely to get the surgery.

http://tinyurl.com/3ee7jod

###


The Liverpool Care Pathway to dignity in death


My grandfather’s lingering demise shows why we need protocols for palliative care
By Dr Max Pemberton
6:07PM GMT 13 Jan 2013

The Association for Palliative Medicine, which represents 1,000 doctors specialising in care for dying people, published new guidance last week and warned of a growing shortage of clinicians with expertise in the field. They also warned that inadequate monitoring of the use of the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) as well as wide variations in standards have helped sow confusion and fear among patients – and even among doctors.

What really shocked me was the claim by the head of the association, Dr. Bee Wee, who said she’d heard that, because of recent media reports about the LCP, some patients were now so afraid of being placed on the pathway that they were reluctant to be admitted to hospital to get the treatment they needed. This is a desperately sad situation and confirmed my worst fears about the fallout from the recent media horror stories.

Read more:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/elderhealth/9796968/The-Liverpool-Care-Pathway-to-dignity


Old people should just be able to take a pain pill. obama

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

Markle wrote:

Thousands of Elderly Breast Cancer Patients Denied Surgery in Britain
Wednesday, June 15, 2011

In Great Britain thousands of breast cancer patients are being denied life-saving surgery due to their age.

Younger patients are more likely to get the surgery.

http://tinyurl.com/3ee7jod

###


The Liverpool Care Pathway to dignity in death


My grandfather’s lingering demise shows why we need protocols for palliative care
By Dr Max Pemberton
6:07PM GMT 13 Jan 2013

The Association for Palliative Medicine, which represents 1,000 doctors specialising in care for dying people, published new guidance last week and warned of a growing shortage of clinicians with expertise in the field. They also warned that inadequate monitoring of the use of the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) as well as wide variations in standards have helped sow confusion and fear among patients – and even among doctors.

What really shocked me was the claim by the head of the association, Dr. Bee Wee, who said she’d heard that, because of recent media reports about the LCP, some patients were now so afraid of being placed on the pathway that they were reluctant to be admitted to hospital to get the treatment they needed. This is a desperately sad situation and confirmed my worst fears about the fallout from the recent media horror stories.

Read more:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/elderhealth/9796968/The-Liverpool-Care-Pathway-to-dignity


So Markle....don't you realize we also have palliative care in the United States? What is it about palliative care that frightens you?

National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization:
http://my.nhpco.org/NHPCO/Home

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

By the way, the last link you posted is inactive, Markle.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

William wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:

A moral group of people does not force others to purchase something from a private business, just because they happen to be breathing, by making government legislation.




Let us not forget where the idea of the individual mandate originated:

Funny how it is all in the "framing". Back when the Heritage Foundation thought individual mandates were great they said it was to make sure that EVERYONE TOOK PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN HEALTH INSURANCE/CARE, you know, so that those who dug in their heels and didn't want to do the responsible thing were not carried along like MOOCHERS on the health insurance premiums the rest of us pay.



I don't give a FRAK where individual mandates originated. The moochers you talk about will be there regardless what is done. Just look at the government entitlement system and how if you don't want to work you don't have too.

If you think healthcare should be available to all as a basic right then nationalize the GOD DAMNED industry. While we're at it I mean ALL people are covered by it in the same way and all people working for the industry are paid off a federal pay scale. Let's make it simple for our Congressmen/women to do their job and anyone receiving federal money for pay are on one pay system/scale like the military pay scale. Nurses get paid enlisted pay while doctors and specialists are paid as officers. One pay scale for our Congressmen to decide the pay increase for ALL federal employees should make their job a lot easier.

*****SMILE*****


It is odd that you now claim you don't care whose idea the individual mandate was however you called the people calling for it an immoral group. So the Heritage Foundation is also an immoral group to you?

I agree with your recipe for curing the system, just nationalize it and pay doctors etc. a set fee. That's what they do in Great Britain and it seems to suit them. Doctors don't make the super-mega buck they do here but they don't have to pay for mal-practice insurance either. The system is completely different and everyone is covered. I think you are on to something here.

I also agree with PBull's great letter shooting down so many standard talking points brought up by those who are in love with the pre-aca system

....................................

About 5 years ago, I suggested that we form a National Healthcare Corps as a branch of the DoD. Transfer the VA to it and build more treatment facilities and hospitals. Treatment at those facilities would be aimed at the general public with a yearly premium. The treatment they received would be equivalent to what is available at DoD Hospitals, and no person is turned away.

To staff those facilities, use the same system as the DoD. Give scholarships to qualified med students who in return owe at least 8 years of service to the Corps.

Leave existing healthcare systems in place with the Health Corps relieving a lot of the strain on the private system.

As you can probably guess, I was not just shouted down...I was accused of being a commie, etc.


After med school, 8 years of service seems like too much...and then there's the cost of medical school that they hoped to recoup in private practice. I certainly don't want to remove incentives for people to enter med school and graduate. On the other hand, lots of doctors and nurses get their training in the military...at least the previous generation. As PB pointed out, single-payer is the goal. The ACA is a stepping stone, however wobbly. There are certain commercial entities out there that exist only because they are able to form a parasitic relationship with the health care system...they need to be gone.

Markle

Markle

PBulldog2 wrote:
Markle wrote:

Thousands of Elderly Breast Cancer Patients Denied Surgery in Britain
Wednesday, June 15, 2011

In Great Britain thousands of breast cancer patients are being denied life-saving surgery due to their age.

Younger patients are more likely to get the surgery.

http://tinyurl.com/3ee7jod

###


The Liverpool Care Pathway to dignity in death


My grandfather’s lingering demise shows why we need protocols for palliative care
By Dr Max Pemberton
6:07PM GMT 13 Jan 2013

The Association for Palliative Medicine, which represents 1,000 doctors specialising in care for dying people, published new guidance last week and warned of a growing shortage of clinicians with expertise in the field. They also warned that inadequate monitoring of the use of the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) as well as wide variations in standards have helped sow confusion and fear among patients – and even among doctors.

What really shocked me was the claim by the head of the association, Dr. Bee Wee, who said she’d heard that, because of recent media reports about the LCP, some patients were now so afraid of being placed on the pathway that they were reluctant to be admitted to hospital to get the treatment they needed. This is a desperately sad situation and confirmed my worst fears about the fallout from the recent media horror stories.

Read more:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/elderhealth/9796968/The-Liverpool-Care-Pathway-to-dignity


So Markle....don't you realize we also have palliative care in the United States? What is it about palliative care that frightens you?

National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization:
http://my.nhpco.org/NHPCO/Home

Simple, now this is complicated.

It is VOLUNTARY.


Wednesday, 23 January 2013

Liverpool Care Pathway - The Open Secret

This is BBC News -

22 January 2013 Last updated at 13:43

Liverpool Care Pathway: More than 10,000 patients placed on plan

By Julian SturdyBBC Look East

Almost half of the acute hospital trusts in the East have been offered incentives by the government to put dying patients on a programme that allows doctors to withdraw treatment.

More than 10,000 patients in the region have been put on the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) in the last three years, a BBC investigation has found.

The programme was designed to ease the suffering of people at the end of their lives, but the Government has ordered an independent review after complaints that some patients and their relatives were not being told they were on it.
Read more: http://liverpool-care-pathway-a-national-sc.blogspot.com/2013/01/liverpool-care-pathway-open-secret.html

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

Markle wrote:
PBulldog2 wrote:
Markle wrote:

Thousands of Elderly Breast Cancer Patients Denied Surgery in Britain
Wednesday, June 15, 2011

In Great Britain thousands of breast cancer patients are being denied life-saving surgery due to their age.

Younger patients are more likely to get the surgery.

http://tinyurl.com/3ee7jod

###



You don't understand palliative care. You don't understand the concepts of "mapping"
The Liverpool Care Pathway to dignity in death


My grandfather’s lingering demise shows why we need protocols for palliative care
By Dr Max Pemberton
6:07PM GMT 13 Jan 2013

The Association for Palliative Medicine, which represents 1,000 doctors specialising in care for dying people, published new guidance last week and warned of a growing shortage of clinicians with expertise in the field. They also warned that inadequate monitoring of the use of the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) as well as wide variations in standards have helped sow confusion and fear among patients – and even among doctors.

What really shocked me was the claim by the head of the association, Dr. Bee Wee, who said she’d heard that, because of recent media reports about the LCP, some patients were now so afraid of being placed on the pathway that they were reluctant to be admitted to hospital to get the treatment they needed. This is a desperately sad situation and confirmed my worst fears about the fallout from the recent media horror stories.

Read more:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/elderhealth/9796968/The-Liverpool-Care-Pathway-to-dignity


So Markle....don't you realize we also have palliative care in the United States? What is it about palliative care that frightens you?

National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization:
http://my.nhpco.org/NHPCO/Home

Simple, now this is complicated.

It is VOLUNTARY.


Wednesday, 23 January 2013

Liverpool Care Pathway - The Open Secret

This is BBC News -

22 January 2013 Last updated at 13:43

Liverpool Care Pathway: More than 10,000 patients placed on plan

By Julian SturdyBBC Look East

Almost half of the acute hospital trusts in the East have been offered incentives by the government to put dying patients on a programme that allows doctors to withdraw treatment.

More than 10,000 patients in the region have been put on the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) in the last three years, a BBC investigation has found.

The programme was designed to ease the suffering of people at the end of their lives, but the Government has ordered an independent review after complaints that some patients and their relatives were not being told they were on it.
Read more: http://liverpool-care-pathway-a-national-sc.blogspot.com/2013/01/liverpool-care-pathway-open-secret.html


You don't understand palliative care. You don't understand the concepts of "mapping" and "pathways" as the terms relate to the provision of health care. We have operated under those concepts in the US for decades.

At least women in the UK have the possible option of surgery and/or other treatment in the event of breast cancer. Many in our country do not, at least right now. In the future, whether or not a woman gets breast surgery, chemo or radiation will depend not on her age but on the quality of her insurance.

Which is worse - refusing to treat a woman (even a young, otherwise healthy woman) because she has no insurance or is under insured, or refusing to treat an elderly woman aggressively because she is 75 years old and has a new breast cancer? Cold-hearted question, I know, but it's one that bears asking.

Oh, and by the way - your information is old. It has long since been proven that mastectomy alone may not be the best way to treat breast cancer. Lumpectomy or partial mastectomy followed by chemo and radiation are just as effective, if not moreso.

Guest


Guest

Floridatexan wrote:
William wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:

A moral group of people does not force others to purchase something from a private business, just because they happen to be breathing, by making government legislation.




Let us not forget where the idea of the individual mandate originated:

Funny how it is all in the "framing". Back when the Heritage Foundation thought individual mandates were great they said it was to make sure that EVERYONE TOOK PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN HEALTH INSURANCE/CARE, you know, so that those who dug in their heels and didn't want to do the responsible thing were not carried along like MOOCHERS on the health insurance premiums the rest of us pay.



I don't give a FRAK where individual mandates originated. The moochers you talk about will be there regardless what is done. Just look at the government entitlement system and how if you don't want to work you don't have too.

If you think healthcare should be available to all as a basic right then nationalize the GOD DAMNED industry. While we're at it I mean ALL people are covered by it in the same way and all people working for the industry are paid off a federal pay scale. Let's make it simple for our Congressmen/women to do their job and anyone receiving federal money for pay are on one pay system/scale like the military pay scale. Nurses get paid enlisted pay while doctors and specialists are paid as officers. One pay scale for our Congressmen to decide the pay increase for ALL federal employees should make their job a lot easier.

*****SMILE*****


It is odd that you now claim you don't care whose idea the individual mandate was however you called the people calling for it an immoral group. So the Heritage Foundation is also an immoral group to you?

I agree with your recipe for curing the system, just nationalize it and pay doctors etc. a set fee. That's what they do in Great Britain and it seems to suit them. Doctors don't make the super-mega buck they do here but they don't have to pay for mal-practice insurance either. The system is completely different and everyone is covered. I think you are on to something here.

I also agree with PBull's great letter shooting down so many standard talking points brought up by those who are in love with the pre-aca system

....................................

About 5 years ago, I suggested that we form a National Healthcare Corps as a branch of the DoD. Transfer the VA to it and build more treatment facilities and hospitals. Treatment at those facilities would be aimed at the general public with a yearly premium. The treatment they received would be equivalent to what is available at DoD Hospitals, and no person is turned away.

To staff those facilities, use the same system as the DoD. Give scholarships to qualified med students who in return owe at least 8 years of service to the Corps.

Leave existing healthcare systems in place with the Health Corps relieving a lot of the strain on the private system.

As you can probably guess, I was not just shouted down...I was accused of being a commie, etc.


After med school, 8 years of service seems like too much...and then there's the cost of medical school that they hoped to recoup in private practice. I certainly don't want to remove incentives for people to enter med school and graduate. On the other hand, lots of doctors and nurses get their training in the military...at least the previous generation. As PB pointed out, single-payer is the goal. The ACA is a stepping stone, however wobbly. There are certain commercial entities out there that exist only because they are able to form a parasitic relationship with the health care system...they need to be gone.


..........................................

The scholarships from the Medical Corps would pay for med school, thus the 8 years of service to repay the system.

Guest


Guest

Boogity boogity boogity...........

Guest


Guest

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/10/budget-request-denied-sebelius-turns-to-health-executives-to-finance-obamacare/

Guest


Guest

doubtingthomas wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/10/budget-request-denied-sebelius-turns-to-health-executives-to-finance-obamacare/

Sebelius has made multiple phone calls to health industry executives, community organizations and church groups

cant wait to see how this pans out. lets see, first they bait and switch healthcare industry, slash them with a sword of reimbursement cuts and not to mention all the demonization to church groups, and they are now asking for a hand out from the people they just shit in their faces.

yes, the church groups will hand it over im sure, you know all that abortion and birth control stuff made them all so happy.

I think we will have to wait and see what the new threats will be to these groups. thuggery it will have to be, im sure.

Markle

Markle

doubtingthomas wrote:http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/294501-baucus-warns-of-huge-train-wreck-in-obamacare-implementation

Yep, dems are a doubting Thomas now.

I agree Medicare for all.

How? Where does the money come from? You say that like there is a money tree or as a voter in Detroit said, OBAMA'S STASH!

Where will this money come from? Please don't say the "RICH", they don't have anywhere NEAR this much money.

Current Debt . . . $16.5 TRILLION Plus the $1.2 TRILLION proposed by President Barack Hussein Obama for 2013. (No budget approved)

Unfunded Liabilities (money we have PROMISED, do not have, nor do we have it coming in)

Social Security. . . . $15.9 TRILLION (10,000 Baby Boomers RETIRE EVERY DAY) (How many workers are entering the job market daily?)

Prescription Drugs .$20.4 TRILLION

Medicare. . . . . . . . $83.4 TRILLION

Total Unfunded Liabilities $120.4 TRILLION!

Number of Households in 2010 = 112,611,029

Unfunded Liability Per household $1,053,398.00

http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html

PLUS ObamaCare and Untold TRILLIONS more in TAXES

Markle

Markle

PBulldog2 wrote:Below is a really good letter. It's long, but it may help some to understand if they take time to digest what is says.

It's Time for Single-Payer

By Dr. James Mitchiner
American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP) News, 08/07/12



Myth #2: Canadian Health Care Would Be Bad for America

Americans love to repeat anecdotes about the supposedly lousy medical care our northern neighbors receive from their single-payer system, by demoralized and overworked doctors who work at ill-equipped hospitals with out-of-date technology. This is rubbish. Do Canadians often wait for weeks [no, they have to wait MONTHS] to see a specialist? Yes. Do Americans also wait? Yes. There is no evidence that Canadians are dropping dead in the streets while waiting for their emergency bypasses or appendectomies, nor is there any evidence that Canadian physicians are emigrating to the U.S. or other countries en masse. Further, there is no evidence that the quality of care in Canada, across the board, is inferior to that practiced in the U.S. Despite comparable rates of smoking and alcoholism, Canadians on average live longer than Americans by more than 2 years, and their infant mortality rate is less than ours. Finally, consider this: Canadians spend much less than we do for health care, both in per-capita dollars and as a percent of GDP, so I have no doubt that if we were to adopt a Canadian-style system and fund it to the tune of $2.6 trillion annually, we would not have 9-month waits for MRIs, even if every one of them was clinically indicated.


Dr. Mitchiner is an emergency physician in Ann Arbor, Mich., a former president of the Washtenaw County (Mich.) Medical Society, and a member of Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP). ACEP News is a publication of the American College of Emergency Physicians.[/b]


PNHP is made up of very few doctors who desire a single payer system. That he says people were not dying in the streets is true. That they don't have months or year long waiting lists to see a specialist or for surgery is a lie.

That they have a higher life span and higher infant mortality rate is due to the FACT that they are made up of a single race and nationality society.

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Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada, 2011 report
Type: Research Studies
Date Published: December 12, 2011

This edition of Waiting Your Turn indicates that waiting times for elective medical treatment have increased since last year. Specialist physicians surveyed across 12 specialties and 10 Canadian provinces report a total waiting time of 19.0 weeks between referral from a general practitioner and receipt of elective treatment. At 104 percent longer than it was in 1993, this is the longest total wait time recorded since the Fraser Institute began measuring wait times in Canada.

Wait times between 2010 and 2011 increased in both the segment between referral by a general practitioner to consultation with a specialist (rising to 9.5 weeks from 8.9 weeks in 2010), and the segment between a consultation with a specialist and receipt of treatment (rising to 9.5 weeks from 9.3 weeks in 2010). In fact, physicians themselves believe that Canadians wait nearly 3 weeks longer than what they consider is clinically “reasonable” for elective treatment after an appointment with a specialist. There is, however, a great deal of variation in the total waiting time faced by patients across the provinces. While Ontario reports the shortest total wait in 2011 (14.3 weeks); Prince Edward Island reports the longest at 43.9 weeks. The same is true of variations among specialties. Patients wait longest between a GP referral and plastic surgery (41.6 weeks), while those waiting for medical oncology begin treatment in 4.2 weeks.

It is estimated that, across all 10 provinces, in 2011 people are waiting for an estimated 941,321 procedures. This means that, assuming that each person waits for only one procedure, 2.8 percent of Canadians are waiting for treatment. Importantly, physicians report that only about 9.4 percent of their patients are on a waiting list because they requested a delay or postponement. The results of this year’s survey indicate that despite high levels of health expenditure and provincial wait time strategies, it is clear that patients in Canada are waiting too long to receive treatment

[In the United States that would equal 8.6 MILLION PATIENTS.]

Population of Canada 34.4 million

Population of U.S. 308 million

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research-news/display.aspx?id=2147484001


PDF file of the entire study
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/waiting-your-turn-2011.pdf

Markle

Markle

PBulldog2 wrote:Below is a really good letter. It's long, but it may help some to understand if they take time to digest what is says.

It's Time for Single-Payer

By Dr. James Mitchiner
American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP) News, 08/07/12


Myth #4: Single-Payer Would Stop Medical Innovation

To my knowledge, there is no correlation between innovation and a country’s method of health care financing. Many technologies and medical advances we now take for granted originated in nations with national health insurance, for example, CT scans and MRIs (Great Britain), laparoscopic cholecystectomy (Canada), percutaneous coronary angioplasty (Germany), and H. pylori treatment (Australia). The largest single source of funding for medical research in the U.S. is a government agency – the National Institutes of Health – which provided almost $31 billion in funding for medical research in fiscal year 2012. And in terms of per-capita drug R&D costs, the U.S. lags behind Britain and Sweden.

Dr. Mitchiner is an emergency physician in Ann Arbor, Mich., a former president of the Washtenaw County (Mich.) Medical Society, and a member of Physicians for a National Health Program. ACEP News is a publication of the American College of Emergency Physicians.[/b]



Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.

Fact No. 3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries. Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians. Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer: Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent). Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians. More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent). Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).

Fact No. 5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report “excellent” health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent). Conversely, white Canadian young adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower income to describe their health as “fair or poor.”

Obamacare, they should have READ IT, and it is going to hit home on the Hill soon - Page 2 10MostImportantRecentMedicalInnovations

Fact No. 6: Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the U.K. Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long — sometimes more than a year — to see a specialist, to have elective surgery like hip replacements or to get radiation treatment for cancer. All told, 827,429 people are waiting for some type of procedure in Canada. In England, nearly 1.8 million people are waiting for a hospital admission or outpatient treatment.

Fact No. 7: People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed. More than 70 percent of German, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand and British adults say their health system needs either “fundamental change” or “complete rebuilding.”

Fact No. 8: Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians. When asked about their own health care instead of the “health care system,” more than half of Americans (51.3 percent) are very satisfied with their health care services, compared to only 41.5 percent of Canadians; a lower proportion of Americans are dissatisfied (6.8 percent) than Canadians (8.5 percent).

Fact No. 9: Americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in Canada or the U.K. Maligned as a waste by economists and policymakers naive to actual medical practice, an over-whelming majority of leading American physicians identified computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as the most important medical innovations for improving patient care during the previous decade. [See the table.] The United States has 34 CT scanners per million Americans, compared to 12 in Canada and eight in Britain. The United States has nearly 27 MRI machines per million compared to about 6 per million in Canada and Britain.

Fact No. 10: Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations. The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other single developed country. Since the mid-1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to American residents more often than recipients from all other countries combined. In only five of the past 34 years did a scientist living in America not win or share in the prize. Most important recent medical innovations were developed in the United States.

Read more: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649


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