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Five myths about obamacare. What say you?

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Joanimaroni
TEOTWAWKI
Slicef18
Hospital Bob
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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Five Obamacare Myths
By BILL KELLER
Published: July 15, 2012
NYT op-ed piece

ON the subject of the Affordable Care Act — Obamacare, to reclaim the name critics have made into a slur — a number of fallacies seem to be congealing into accepted wisdom. Much of this is the result of unrelenting Republican propaganda and right-wing punditry, but it has gone largely unchallenged by gun-shy Democrats. The result is that voters are confronted with slogans and side issues — “It’s a tax!” “No, it’s a penalty!” — rather than a reality-based discussion. Let’s unpack a few of the most persistent myths.

OBAMACARE IS A JOB-KILLER. The House Republican majority was at it again last week, staging the 33rd theatrical vote to roll back the Affordable Care Act. And once again the cliché of the day was “job-killer.” After years of trying out various alarmist falsehoods the Republicans have found one that seems, judging from the polls, to have connected with the fears of voters.

Some of the job-killer scare stories are based on a deliberate misreading of a Congressional Budget Office report that estimated the law would “reduce the amount of labor used in the economy” by about 800,000 jobs. Sounds like a job-killer, right? Not if you read what the C.B.O. actually wrote. While some low-wage jobs might be lost, the C.B.O. number mainly refers to workers who — being no longer so dependent on employers for their health-care safety net — may choose to retire earlier or work part time. Those jobs would then be open for others who need them.

The impartial truth squad FactCheck.org has debunked the job-killer claim so many times that in its latest update you can hear a groan of weary frustration: words like “whopper” and “bogus” and “hooey.” The job-killer claim is also discredited by the experience under the Massachusetts law on which Obamacare was modeled.

Ultimately the Affordable Care Act could be a tonic for the economy. It aims to slow the raging growth of health care costs by, among other things, using the government’s Medicare leverage to move doctors away from exorbitant fee-for-service medicine, with its incentive to pile on unnecessary procedures. Two veteran health economists, David Cutler of Harvard and Karen Davis, president of the Commonwealth Fund, have calculated that over the first decade of Obamacare total spending on health care, in part by employers, will be half a trillion dollars lower than under the status quo.

OBAMACARE IS A FEDERAL TAKEOVER OF HEALTH INSURANCE. Let’s be blunt. The word for that is “lie.” The main thing the law does is deliver 30 million new customers to the private insurance industry. Indeed, a significant portion of the unhappiness with Obamacare comes from liberals who believe it is not nearly federal enough: that the menu of insurance choices should have included a robust public option, or that Medicare should have been expanded into a form of universal coverage.

Under the law, to be sure, insurance will be governed by new regulations, and supported by new subsidies. This is not the law Ayn Rand would have written. But the share of health care spending that comes from the federal government is expected to rise only modestly, to nearly 50 percent in 2021, and much of that is due not to Obamacare but to baby boomers joining Medicare.

This is a “federal takeover” only in the crazy world where Barack Obama is a “socialist.”

THE UNFETTERED MARKETPLACE IS A BETTER SOLUTION. To the extent there is a profound difference of principle anywhere in this debate, it lies here. Conservatives contend that if you give consumers a voucher or a tax credit and set them loose in the marketplace they will do a better job than government at finding the services — schools, retirement portfolios, or in this case health insurance policies — that fit their needs.

I’m a pretty devout capitalist, and I see that in some cases individual responsibility helps contain wasteful spending on health care. If you have to share the cost of that extra M.R.I. or elective surgery, you’ll think hard about whether you really need it. But I’m deeply suspicious of the claim that a health care system dominated by powerful vested interests and mystifying in its complexity can be tamed by consumers who are strapped for time, often poor, sometimes uneducated, confused and afraid.

“Ten percent of the population accounts for 60 percent of the health outlays,” said Davis. “They are the very sick, and they are not really in a position to make cost-conscious choices.”

LEAVE IT TO THE STATES. THEY’LL FIX IT. The Republican alternative to Obamacare consists in large part of letting each state do its own thing. Presumably the best ideas will go viral.

States do have a long history of pioneering new ideas, sometimes enlightened (Oregon’s vote-by-mail comes to mind) and sometimes less benign (see Florida’s loopy gun laws). Obamacare actually underwrites pilot programs to reduce costs, and gives states freedom — some would argue too much freedom — in designing insurance-buying exchanges. But the best ideas don’t spread spontaneously. Some states are too poor to adopt worthwhile reforms. Some are intransigent, or held captive by lobbies.

OBAMACARE IS A LOSER. RUN AGAINST IT, RUN FROM IT, BUT FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE DON’T RUN ON IT. When Mitt Romney signed that Massachusetts law in 2006, the coverage kicked in almost immediately. Robert Blendon, a Harvard expert on health and public opinion, recalls the profusion of heartwarming stories about people who had depended on emergency rooms and charity but now, at last, had a regular relationship with a doctor. Romneycare was instantly popular in the state, and remains so, though it seems to have been disowned by its creator.

Unfortunately, the benefits of Obamacare do not go wide until 2014, so there are not yet testimonials from enthusiastic, family-next-door beneficiaries. This helps explain why the bill has not won more popular affection. (It also explains why the Republicans are so desperate to kill it now, before Americans feel the abundant rewards.)

Blendon believes that because of the delayed benefits and the general economic anxiety, “It will be very hard for the Democrats to move the needle” on the issue this election year.

He may be right, but shame on the Democrats if they don’t try. There’s no reason except cowardice for failing to mount a full-throated defense of the law. It is not perfect, but it is humane, it is (thanks to the Supreme Court) fiscally viable, and it comes with some reasonable hopes of reforming the cockeyed way we pay health care providers.

Even before the law takes full effect, it has a natural constituency, starting with every cancer victim, every H.I.V. sufferer, everyone with a condition that now would keep them from getting affordable coverage. Any family that has passed through the purgatory of cancer — as mine did this year, with decent insurance — can imagine the hell of doing it without insurance.

Against this, Mitt Romney offers some vague free-market principles and one unambiguous promise: to dash the hopes of 30 million uninsured, and add a few million to their ranks by slashing Medicaid.

If the Obama campaign needs a snappy one-liner, it could borrow this one from David Cutler: “Never before in history has a candidate run for president with the idea that too many people have insurance coverage.”

Slicef18

Slicef18

ButtMan wrote:Five Obamacare Myths
By BILL KELLER
Published: July 15, 2012
NYT op-ed piece

ON the subject of the Affordable Care Act — Obamacare, to reclaim the name critics have made into a slur — a number of fallacies seem to be congealing into accepted wisdom. Much of this is the result of unrelenting Republican propaganda and right-wing punditry, but it has gone largely unchallenged by gun-shy Democrats. The result is that voters are confronted with slogans and side issues — “It’s a tax!” “No, it’s a penalty!” — rather than a reality-based discussion. Let’s unpack a few of the most persistent myths.

OBAMACARE IS A JOB-KILLER. The House Republican majority was at it again last week, staging the 33rd theatrical vote to roll back the Affordable Care Act. And once again the cliché of the day was “job-killer.” After years of trying out various alarmist falsehoods the Republicans have found one that seems, judging from the polls, to have connected with the fears of voters.

Some of the job-killer scare stories are based on a deliberate misreading of a Congressional Budget Office report that estimated the law would “reduce the amount of labor used in the economy” by about 800,000 jobs. Sounds like a job-killer, right? Not if you read what the C.B.O. actually wrote. While some low-wage jobs might be lost, the C.B.O. number mainly refers to workers who — being no longer so dependent on employers for their health-care safety net — may choose to retire earlier or work part time. Those jobs would then be open for others who need them.

The impartial truth squad FactCheck.org has debunked the job-killer claim so many times that in its latest update you can hear a groan of weary frustration: words like “whopper” and “bogus” and “hooey.” The job-killer claim is also discredited by the experience under the Massachusetts law on which Obamacare was modeled.

Ultimately the Affordable Care Act could be a tonic for the economy. It aims to slow the raging growth of health care costs by, among other things, using the government’s Medicare leverage to move doctors away from exorbitant fee-for-service medicine, with its incentive to pile on unnecessary procedures. Two veteran health economists, David Cutler of Harvard and Karen Davis, president of the Commonwealth Fund, have calculated that over the first decade of Obamacare total spending on health care, in part by employers, will be half a trillion dollars lower than under the status quo.

OBAMACARE IS A FEDERAL TAKEOVER OF HEALTH INSURANCE. Let’s be blunt. The word for that is “lie.” The main thing the law does is deliver 30 million new customers to the private insurance industry. Indeed, a significant portion of the unhappiness with Obamacare comes from liberals who believe it is not nearly federal enough: that the menu of insurance choices should have included a robust public option, or that Medicare should have been expanded into a form of universal coverage.

Under the law, to be sure, insurance will be governed by new regulations, and supported by new subsidies. This is not the law Ayn Rand would have written. But the share of health care spending that comes from the federal government is expected to rise only modestly, to nearly 50 percent in 2021, and much of that is due not to Obamacare but to baby boomers joining Medicare.

This is a “federal takeover” only in the crazy world where Barack Obama is a “socialist.”

THE UNFETTERED MARKETPLACE IS A BETTER SOLUTION. To the extent there is a profound difference of principle anywhere in this debate, it lies here. Conservatives contend that if you give consumers a voucher or a tax credit and set them loose in the marketplace they will do a better job than government at finding the services — schools, retirement portfolios, or in this case health insurance policies — that fit their needs.

I’m a pretty devout capitalist, and I see that in some cases individual responsibility helps contain wasteful spending on health care. If you have to share the cost of that extra M.R.I. or elective surgery, you’ll think hard about whether you really need it. But I’m deeply suspicious of the claim that a health care system dominated by powerful vested interests and mystifying in its complexity can be tamed by consumers who are strapped for time, often poor, sometimes uneducated, confused and afraid.

“Ten percent of the population accounts for 60 percent of the health outlays,” said Davis. “They are the very sick, and they are not really in a position to make cost-conscious choices.”

LEAVE IT TO THE STATES. THEY’LL FIX IT. The Republican alternative to Obamacare consists in large part of letting each state do its own thing. Presumably the best ideas will go viral.

States do have a long history of pioneering new ideas, sometimes enlightened (Oregon’s vote-by-mail comes to mind) and sometimes less benign (see Florida’s loopy gun laws). Obamacare actually underwrites pilot programs to reduce costs, and gives states freedom — some would argue too much freedom — in designing insurance-buying exchanges. But the best ideas don’t spread spontaneously. Some states are too poor to adopt worthwhile reforms. Some are intransigent, or held captive by lobbies.

OBAMACARE IS A LOSER. RUN AGAINST IT, RUN FROM IT, BUT FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE DON’T RUN ON IT. When Mitt Romney signed that Massachusetts law in 2006, the coverage kicked in almost immediately. Robert Blendon, a Harvard expert on health and public opinion, recalls the profusion of heartwarming stories about people who had depended on emergency rooms and charity but now, at last, had a regular relationship with a doctor. Romneycare was instantly popular in the state, and remains so, though it seems to have been disowned by its creator.

Unfortunately, the benefits of Obamacare do not go wide until 2014, so there are not yet testimonials from enthusiastic, family-next-door beneficiaries. This helps explain why the bill has not won more popular affection. (It also explains why the Republicans are so desperate to kill it now, before Americans feel the abundant rewards.)

Blendon believes that because of the delayed benefits and the general economic anxiety, “It will be very hard for the Democrats to move the needle” on the issue this election year.

He may be right, but shame on the Democrats if they don’t try. There’s no reason except cowardice for failing to mount a full-throated defense of the law. It is not perfect, but it is humane, it is (thanks to the Supreme Court) fiscally viable, and it comes with some reasonable hopes of reforming the cockeyed way we pay health care providers.

Even before the law takes full effect, it has a natural constituency, starting with every cancer victim, every H.I.V. sufferer, everyone with a condition that now would keep them from getting affordable coverage. Any family that has passed through the purgatory of cancer — as mine did this year, with decent insurance — can imagine the hell of doing it without insurance.

Against this, Mitt Romney offers some vague free-market principles and one unambiguous promise: to dash the hopes of 30 million uninsured, and add a few million to their ranks by slashing Medicaid.

If the Obama campaign needs a snappy one-liner, it could borrow this one from David Cutler: “Never before in history has a candidate run for president with the idea that too many people have insurance coverage.”

This is one of the best pieces of clarification I've seen to date. It's amazing the misinformation people post on these sites. It's willful ignorance at it's best about a subject as profound as Social Security and Medicare. Nay sayers will say Social Security and Medicare are going broke. THAT IS NOT TRUE. They are underfunded, unlike our military which has plenty of money. And the Presidents private military unit, the CIA.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Well I think it's great to add millions more people and NO more doctors...that will insure that a lot of Docs will quit ...maybe gut the whole system..which then will save lives . Then Obama can take credit for getting rid of death by Doctors.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

It's like everything else we have to try to understand. The information we have to work with is so politicized and so biased and so partisan that I have zero faith in my ability to come to any valid conclusions about anything anymore.
All of us out here are pretty much just at the mercy of all this mountain of bias and misinformation.
The only way most of us know to react to it is just to choose a side and then absorb only what we want to be told and discard the rest.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Here's something for the republican lovers will like. It came in email.
_______________________________________________________


All should read this. The problem I have with the republican campaign is that these should be written on hand outs at all rallies, and perhaps even mailed en mass to the general public. It is ominous and will lead this country down a path toward socialism from which we will never return.
Good morning, This will make your morning. And some want to reelect thismonster for our President for another 4 years. We are totally a crazy, stupid nation if we elect him again.
YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS.

At age 76 when you most need it, you are not eligible for cancer
treatment see page 272
What Nancy Pelosi didn't want us to know until after the healthcare bill was passed. Remember she said, "pass it and then read it!!." Here it is!
______________________________
Obama Care Highlighted by Page Number
THE CARE BILL HB 3200


JUDGE KITHIL IS THE 2ND OFFICIAL WHO HAS OUTLINED THESE PARTS OF THE CARE BILL.
Judge Kithil of Marble Falls, TX - highlighted the most egregious pages of HB3200
Please read this........ especially the reference to pages 58 & 59


JUDGE KITHIL wrote:

**
Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to
all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.

**
Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an
individual's bank account and will have the authority to make
electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

**
Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the
government) for all union members, union retirees and for
community organizations (such as the Association
of Community Organizations for Reform Now -
ACORN).

**
Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section
will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their
right mind come up with that?)

**
Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same
regardless of specialty, and the government will set all
doctors' fees.

**
Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care
according to the patient's age.

**
Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on
hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an
exception.

**
Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care
planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be
required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five
years. (Death counseling..)

**
Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify
which doctors can write an end-of-life order.

HAD ENOUGH???? Judge Kithil then goes on to identify:

"Finally, it is specifically stated that this bill will not apply to
members of Congress. Members of Congress are already
exempt from the Social Security system, and have a well-funded
private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on
our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick
'fix' to make the plan financially sound for their future."

- Honorable
David Kithil of Marble Falls, Texas

All of the above should give you the ammo you need to support your opposition to Obamacare. Please send this information on to all of your email contacts.

Guest


Guest

ButtMan wrote:Here's something for the republican lovers will like. It came in email.
_______________________________________________________


All should read this. The problem I have with the republican campaign is that these should be written on hand outs at all rallies, and perhaps even mailed en mass to the general public. It is ominous and will lead this country down a path toward socialism from which we will never return.
Good morning, This will make your morning. And some want to reelect thismonster for our President for another 4 years. We are totally a crazy, stupid nation if we elect him again.
YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS.

At age 76 when you most need it, you are not eligible for cancer
treatment see page 272
What Nancy Pelosi didn't want us to know until after the healthcare bill was passed. Remember she said, "pass it and then read it!!." Here it is!
______________________________
Obama Care Highlighted by Page Number
THE CARE BILL HB 3200


JUDGE KITHIL IS THE 2ND OFFICIAL WHO HAS OUTLINED THESE PARTS OF THE CARE BILL.
Judge Kithil of Marble Falls, TX - highlighted the most egregious pages of HB3200
Please read this........ especially the reference to pages 58 & 59


JUDGE KITHIL wrote:

**
Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to
all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.

**
Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an
individual's bank account and will have the authority to make
electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

**
Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the
government) for all union members, union retirees and for
community organizations (such as the Association
of Community Organizations for Reform Now -
ACORN).

**
Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section
will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their
right mind come up with that?)

**
Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same
regardless of specialty, and the government will set all
doctors' fees.

**
Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care
according to the patient's age.

**
Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on
hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an
exception.

**
Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care
planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be
required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five
years. (Death counseling..)

**
Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify
which doctors can write an end-of-life order.

HAD ENOUGH???? Judge Kithil then goes on to identify:

"Finally, it is specifically stated that this bill will not apply to
members of Congress. Members of Congress are already
exempt from the Social Security system, and have a well-funded
private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on
our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick
'fix' to make the plan financially sound for their future."

- Honorable
David Kithil of Marble Falls, Texas

All of the above should give you the ammo you need to support your opposition to Obamacare. Please send this information on to all of your email contacts.

Didn't check any of this out but since the 80's congress has been in the social security system, so that is wrong.

Another one going around the internet is that under obamacare you part B premiums in 2014 will be $247.00 per month. This is an outright lie Part B is tied to the CPI since the 80's and there was nothing concerning part B in the legislation.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Some of the job-killer scare stories are based on a deliberate misreading of a Congressional Budget Office report that estimated the law would “reduce the amount of labor used in the economy” by about 800,000 jobs. Sounds like a job-killer, right? Not if you read what the C.B.O. actually wrote. While some low-wage jobs might be lost, the C.B.O. number mainly refers to workers who — being no longer so dependent on employers for their health-care safety net — may choose to retire earlier or work part time. Those jobs would then be open for others who need them.


This will put many many small business owners out of business.

Yella

Yella

ButtMan wrote:Five Obamacare Myths
By BILL KELLER
Published: July 15, 2012
NYT op-ed piece

ON the subject of the Affordable Care Act — Obamacare, to reclaim the name critics have made into a slur — a number of fallacies seem to be congealing into accepted wisdom. Much of this is the result of unrelenting Republican propaganda and right-wing punditry, but it has gone largely unchallenged by gun-shy Democrats. The result is that voters are confronted with slogans and side issues — “It’s a tax!” “No, it’s a penalty!” — rather than a reality-based discussion. Let’s unpack a few of the most persistent myths.

OBAMACARE IS A JOB-KILLER. The House Republican majority was at it again last week, staging the 33rd theatrical vote to roll back the Affordable Care Act. And once again the cliché of the day was “job-killer.” After years of trying out various alarmist falsehoods the Republicans have found one that seems, judging from the polls, to have connected with the fears of voters.

Some of the job-killer scare stories are based on a deliberate misreading of a Congressional Budget Office report that estimated the law would “reduce the amount of labor used in the economy” by about 800,000 jobs. Sounds like a job-killer, right? Not if you read what the C.B.O. actually wrote. While some low-wage jobs might be lost, the C.B.O. number mainly refers to workers who — being no longer so dependent on employers for their health-care safety net — may choose to retire earlier or work part time. Those jobs would then be open for others who need them.

The impartial truth squad FactCheck.org has debunked the job-killer claim so many times that in its latest update you can hear a groan of weary frustration: words like “whopper” and “bogus” and “hooey.” The job-killer claim is also discredited by the experience under the Massachusetts law on which Obamacare was modeled.

Ultimately the Affordable Care Act could be a tonic for the economy. It aims to slow the raging growth of health care costs by, among other things, using the government’s Medicare leverage to move doctors away from exorbitant fee-for-service medicine, with its incentive to pile on unnecessary procedures. Two veteran health economists, David Cutler of Harvard and Karen Davis, president of the Commonwealth Fund, have calculated that over the first decade of Obamacare total spending on health care, in part by employers, will be half a trillion dollars lower than under the status quo.

OBAMACARE IS A FEDERAL TAKEOVER OF HEALTH INSURANCE. Let’s be blunt. The word for that is “lie.” The main thing the law does is deliver 30 million new customers to the private insurance industry. Indeed, a significant portion of the unhappiness with Obamacare comes from liberals who believe it is not nearly federal enough: that the menu of insurance choices should have included a robust public option, or that Medicare should have been expanded into a form of universal coverage.

Under the law, to be sure, insurance will be governed by new regulations, and supported by new subsidies. This is not the law Ayn Rand would have written. But the share of health care spending that comes from the federal government is expected to rise only modestly, to nearly 50 percent in 2021, and much of that is due not to Obamacare but to baby boomers joining Medicare.

This is a “federal takeover” only in the crazy world where Barack Obama is a “socialist.”

THE UNFETTERED MARKETPLACE IS A BETTER SOLUTION. To the extent there is a profound difference of principle anywhere in this debate, it lies here. Conservatives contend that if you give consumers a voucher or a tax credit and set them loose in the marketplace they will do a better job than government at finding the services — schools, retirement portfolios, or in this case health insurance policies — that fit their needs.

I’m a pretty devout capitalist, and I see that in some cases individual responsibility helps contain wasteful spending on health care. If you have to share the cost of that extra M.R.I. or elective surgery, you’ll think hard about whether you really need it. But I’m deeply suspicious of the claim that a health care system dominated by powerful vested interests and mystifying in its complexity can be tamed by consumers who are strapped for time, often poor, sometimes uneducated, confused and afraid.

“Ten percent of the population accounts for 60 percent of the health outlays,” said Davis. “They are the very sick, and they are not really in a position to make cost-conscious choices.”

LEAVE IT TO THE STATES. THEY’LL FIX IT. The Republican alternative to Obamacare consists in large part of letting each state do its own thing. Presumably the best ideas will go viral.

States do have a long history of pioneering new ideas, sometimes enlightened (Oregon’s vote-by-mail comes to mind) and sometimes less benign (see Florida’s loopy gun laws). Obamacare actually underwrites pilot programs to reduce costs, and gives states freedom — some would argue too much freedom — in designing insurance-buying exchanges. But the best ideas don’t spread spontaneously. Some states are too poor to adopt worthwhile reforms. Some are intransigent, or held captive by lobbies.

OBAMACARE IS A LOSER. RUN AGAINST IT, RUN FROM IT, BUT FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE DON’T RUN ON IT. When Mitt Romney signed that Massachusetts law in 2006, the coverage kicked in almost immediately. Robert Blendon, a Harvard expert on health and public opinion, recalls the profusion of heartwarming stories about people who had depended on emergency rooms and charity but now, at last, had a regular relationship with a doctor. Romneycare was instantly popular in the state, and remains so, though it seems to have been disowned by its creator.

Unfortunately, the benefits of Obamacare do not go wide until 2014, so there are not yet testimonials from enthusiastic, family-next-door beneficiaries. This helps explain why the bill has not won more popular affection. (It also explains why the Republicans are so desperate to kill it now, before Americans feel the abundant rewards.)

Blendon believes that because of the delayed benefits and the general economic anxiety, “It will be very hard for the Democrats to move the needle” on the issue this election year.

He may be right, but shame on the Democrats if they don’t try. There’s no reason except cowardice for failing to mount a full-throated defense of the law. It is not perfect, but it is humane, it is (thanks to the Supreme Court) fiscally viable, and it comes with some reasonable hopes of reforming the cockeyed way we pay health care providers.

Even before the law takes full effect, it has a natural constituency, starting with every cancer victim, every H.I.V. sufferer, everyone with a condition that now would keep them from getting affordable coverage. Any family that has passed through the purgatory of cancer — as mine did this year, with decent insurance — can imagine the hell of doing it without insurance.

Against this, Mitt Romney offers some vague free-market principles and one unambiguous promise: to dash the hopes of 30 million uninsured, and add a few million to their ranks by slashing Medicaid.

If the Obama campaign needs a snappy one-liner, it could borrow this one from David Cutler: “Never before in history has a candidate run for president with the idea that too many people have insurance coverage.”

Good find, Bob, I hope everyone in this forum and also in this country reads it. Republicans will laugh and call it a pack of lies. But they will think about it and wonder if they have been misled again.

http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

Guest


Guest

All of that garbage is a lie. You all should really verify your information before posting it.Why do you all get sucked it to that?

Guest


Guest

Joanimaroni wrote:Some of the job-killer scare stories are based on a deliberate misreading of a Congressional Budget Office report that estimated the law would “reduce the amount of labor used in the economy” by about 800,000 jobs. Sounds like a job-killer, right? Not if you read what the C.B.O. actually wrote. While some low-wage jobs might be lost, the C.B.O. number mainly refers to workers who — being no longer so dependent on employers for their health-care safety net — may choose to retire earlier or work part time. Those jobs would then be open for others who need them.


This will put many many small business owners out of business.

Why would it put small business owners out of business? Small business owners w/ 50 or less employees are exempt from the law.

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

[quote="ButtMan"]Here's something for the republican lovers will like. It came in email.
_______________________________________________________


All should read this. The problem I have with the republican campaign is that these should be written on hand outs at all rallies, and perhaps even mailed en mass to the general public. It is ominous and will lead this country down a path toward socialism from which we will never return.
Good morning, This will make your morning. And some want to reelect thismonster for our President for another 4 years. We are totally a crazy, stupid nation if we elect him again.
YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS.



Bob, I'll have to check out the law before I believe anything written in this email. I think these blurbs are either taken out of context or just flat-out lies.

One of the most amusing parts of the Republican's argument against the ACA has to do with the so-called "death panels" - the end-of-life care counseling.

As I've written so many times before, end-of-life education and "counseling", if you will, has been done by nurses for decades as a part of the nursing process. The difference is the physicians and hospitals were not able to bill for it as a separate item. Now, they can.

I mean no disrespects to physicians, but I expect it will be nurses and social workers who will continue to provide education about end-of-life care. Talk to any hospice nurse about this!

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

ON the other hand, the article by Bill Keiller is excellent. I'm going to print it out and pass ir around to my very few friends and co-workers who still slam the ACA. I won't have to give it to too many, though, since most of my co-horts support it, even with reservation.

The author pegged me when he wrote about those liberals who don't support the bill because it didn't go far enough toward a basic single-payer system like Medicare for all. That's still my dream, of course, but I also see there are a tremendous amount of positives in this law.

Slicef18

Slicef18

ButtMan wrote:It's like everything else we have to try to understand. The information we have to work with is so politicized and so biased and so partisan that I have zero faith in my ability to come to any valid conclusions about anything anymore.
All of us out here are pretty much just at the mercy of all this mountain of bias and misinformation.
The only way most of us know to react to it is just to choose a side and then absorb only what we want to be told and discard the rest.

This whole piece is a damn lie. See Fact Check:
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

If you're a liberal democrat, everything liberal democrats say about this or any other thing is the truth and everything conservative republicans say about it is a lie.

If you're a conservative republican, everything any conservative republican says about this or any other thing is the truth and everything liberal democrats say about it is a lie.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Dreamsglore wrote:All of that garbage is a lie. You all should really verify your information before posting it.Why do you all get sucked it to that?
This is the proof. Everything she wants to believe is true and everything she doesn't want to be believe is a lie.

Sal

Sal

ButtMan wrote:If you're a liberal democrat, everything liberal democrats say about this or any other thing is the truth and everything conservative republicans say about it is a lie.

If you're a conservative republican, everything any conservative republican says about this or any other thing is the truth and everything liberal democrats say about it is a lie.

No, Bob. Sometimes there's just the truth, and it turns out that it's your "both sides do it equally" religion that is the lie.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

salinsky wrote:
ButtMan wrote:If you're a liberal democrat, everything liberal democrats say about this or any other thing is the truth and everything conservative republicans say about it is a lie.

If you're a conservative republican, everything any conservative republican says about this or any other thing is the truth and everything liberal democrats say about it is a lie.

No, Bob. Sometimes there's just the truth, and it turns out that it's your "both sides do it equally" religion that is the lie.
Funny thing is you and merkel will tell me EXACTLY the same thing.
Of course there's the truth. But when you say the other side is always lying and the other side says you're always lying, then it becomes very difficult to ascertain what the truth is.
The problem is not me. It's your side and the other side.

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

ButtMan wrote:If you're a liberal democrat, everything liberal democrats say about this or any other thing is the truth and everything conservative republicans say about it is a lie.

If you're a conservative republican, everything any conservative republican says about this or any other thing is the truth and everything liberal democrats say about it is a lie.

You forgot to add the category of independent left-leaning libertarians. Twisted Evil

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

PBulldog2 wrote:
ButtMan wrote:If you're a liberal democrat, everything liberal democrats say about this or any other thing is the truth and everything conservative republicans say about it is a lie.

If you're a conservative republican, everything any conservative republican says about this or any other thing is the truth and everything liberal democrats say about it is a lie.

You forgot to add the category of independent left-leaning libertarians. Twisted Evil
If I was to try and include all the different labels I would need merkel for that since he's the expert on labels.

Sal

Sal

ButtMan wrote:
Funny thing is you and merkel will tell me EXACTLY the same thing.
Of course there's the truth. But when you say the other side is always lying and the other side says you're always lying, then it becomes very difficult to ascertain what the truth is.
The problem is not me. It's your side and the other side.

Well Bob, only one side wants to raise taxes on the poor and working class so they can cut taxes for the rich and corporations. Only one side wants to make your health care more expensive and make it more difficult for you to access it. Only one side lacks a single member (other than Ron Paul) who is against the perpetual wars or the war spending. Only one side denies science even as our states are burning to the ground or flooded to the rooftops during another epic heatwave or monsoon. Only one side recognizes the grave threat happy gay married couples pose to the sacred institution of holy matrimony. Only one side believes that Wall Street was just an innocent victim in the most gawd-awful economic downturn since the Great Depression, and it's all the fault of lazy poorz. Only one side believes that booing a gay soldier and cheering the death of an uninsured 30 year old man is patriotism and paying taxes so we can have a thriving First World democracy is tyranny. Only one side thinks zygotes and corporations are people.

The crux of the issue is this, there is a vast, massive difference between the kind of world envisioned by the Republican party and the kind of world envisioned by the Democratic Party.

So spare me the "both sides do it" bullshit. When you say that you are just giving cover to the obvious liars so they continue selling their blatant and destructive lies about "death panels" and "climate change is a hoax" and "gays are evil".



Last edited by salinsky on 7/17/2012, 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total

Yella

Yella

ButtMan wrote:If you're a liberal democrat, everything liberal democrats say about this or any other thing is the truth and everything conservative republicans say about it is a lie.

If you're a conservative republican, everything any conservative republican says about this or any other thing is the truth and everything liberal democrats say about it is a lie.

Politician and liar are synonyms

http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

Guest


Guest

ButtMan wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:All of that garbage is a lie. You all should really verify your information before posting it.Why do you all get sucked it to that?
This is the proof. Everything she wants to believe is true and everything she doesn't want to be believe is a lie.

That's not so,Bob. do you really think they would deny cancer treatment to a 76 yr.old? Commone sense tells you it's a lie. The ACA is not regulating what the policies are. We buy our own policies and the Govt. subsidizes the money. Now really who would buy a policy that says that? Come on!

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

I think the Republicans are going to have a very hard time repealing this law. Too much of it has already gone into effect.

How will a family, even a Republican family, deal with knowing their 23 y.o. child who just happens to be a severe, Type I diabetic may now lose the insurance they.were promised?

How about newly unemployed 43-year-old Mrs Bivens down the road, who has breast cancer and needs surgery. She finally finds a company that will cover her, but then the ACA is repealed.

There are millions of examples like this that are occurring in families all over the country..

If would be fruitful for the state to advise these people to continue, as if the law were set in stone. Then, one or two months from now, all the MSM can run touchy - feeley stories about all the grand changes coming about through ACA.

Spread that message far and wide. The Dems can use them as (rare.but. good.) political news for Obama.

Then lets see how many Republicans will be buying tickets for the: Let's ride the "destroy treatment for a 23 year old with diabetes" life" merry-go-round

Slicef18

Slicef18

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Well I think it's great to add millions more people and NO more doctors...that will insure that a lot of Docs will quit ...maybe gut the whole system..which then will save lives . Then Obama can take credit for getting rid of death by Doctors.

I love it when people come here and throw their ignorance around as if they were a great intellect bestowing enlightenment upon the masses.
This one talks as if these people currently do not have any healthcare. After all these months the gourd remains empty.

Guest


Guest

Joanimaroni wrote:Some of the job-killer scare stories are based on a deliberate misreading of a Congressional Budget Office report that estimated the law would “reduce the amount of labor used in the economy” by about 800,000 jobs. Sounds like a job-killer, right? Not if you read what the C.B.O. actually wrote. While some low-wage jobs might be lost, the C.B.O. number mainly refers to workers who — being no longer so dependent on employers for their health-care safety net — may choose to retire earlier or work part time. Those jobs would then be open for others who need them.


This will put many many small business owners out of business.

Explain how this will put small business owners out of business since they are exempt? If anything they will not have to offer group insurance, most small business owner employee's will qualify for some sort of subsidy, the employer can throw in a hundred or so a month and save a bundle over a years time and could hire more employees. If the small business owner felt some sort of obligation to carry group insurance he would then receive a tax credit, which by the way he could have received his tax credit starting last year. I cannot see it putting any small businesses out of biz.

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