Our System Of Government

It may be our system of government is not well suited to the moment to moment availability of information we've developed today. This pushes and pulls our politicians so frequently they have trouble making a decision. Consequently they feel the need to appear at Press Conferences and talk in sound bites with nothing substantive being said.

I'm afraid that our country and it's society has become so big and so complex and so hard to control that there may be no government structure currently in existence which has the capacity to cope with it.
Whether the current structure can evolve in a way to be able to deal with it is another question. It could all begin to collapse. Time will tell.

Bob wrote:I'm afraid that our country and it's society has become so big and so complex and so hard to control that there may be no government structure currently in existence which has the capacity to cope with it.
Whether the current structure can evolve in a way to be able to deal with it is another question. It could all begin to collapse. Time will tell.

Once upon a time there existed a form of government that was workable and manageable because of its simplicity. However, over time we the people have chosen to relinquish many of our responsibilities to the federal government and by doing so have created an entity that is too large and diverse to be managed effectively. The founding fathers realized that a limited federal government was essential to the success of the new nation and created a list of enumerated powers to clearly define the role of the federal government.

Minarchist

PkrBum wrote:Minarchist

I've always thought of myself as more of a constitutional conservative.

[quote="bizguy"]

Bob wrote:

Once upon a time there existed a form of government that was workable and manageable because of its simplicity. However, over time we the people have chosen to relinquish many of our responsibilities to the federal government and by doing so have created an entity that is too large and diverse to be managed effectively. The founding fathers realized that a limited federal government was essential to the success of the new nation and created a list of enumerated powers to clearly define the role of the federal government.

The government the founding fathers conceived for our country was applicable to the country they were able to envision. But our country is now vastly different from anything they could have ever foreseen.

[quote="Bob"]

bizguy wrote:

Bob wrote:

Once upon a time there existed a form of government that was workable and manageable because of its simplicity. However, over time we the people have chosen to relinquish many of our responsibilities to the federal government and by doing so have created an entity that is too large and diverse to be managed effectively. The founding fathers realized that a limited federal government was essential to the success of the new nation and created a list of enumerated powers to clearly define the role of the federal government.

The government the founding fathers conceived for our country was applicable to the country they were able to envision. But our country is now vastly different from anything they could have ever foreseen.

I think you are incorrectly assuming the founding fathers were not forward thinkers. I believe if we had followed their plan of limited federal government as specified in the enumerated powers of the constitution and all other governing left to the states and people, we would be in much better shape today. Are you saying the constitution is irrelevant today?

Our government is just fine. It is the people where the problem lies. We have become detached and apathetic as we cocoon in our temporal comfort and entertained in those cocoons with this idea that our world should be Mayberry. It never was Mayberry, and it never will be Mayberry. We are a diverse and non homogenized people with increasingly deepening divides in socioeconomic indicators by those groups. Instead of thinking as Americans unified with a common interest, we have become more and more able to consider some of our fellow Americans to less of Americans.

Into this sheep herd the wolves have ventured. They have seen that by control of the media entering our comfortable cocoons they can manipulate and control issues. They who are the oligarchy can shift wealth with unprecedented efficiency as an entire factory which was developed over a 100 years and four generations of American families contributing and developing the products......snapped up, liquidated, and sent abroad, but instead of a local owner who lived in the community, the new efficiency of wealth transfer allows this oligarchy to with sterile surgeon like precision extract America's wealth and transfer the same. This process leaves a growing number of Americans without hope, looking to point to other groups as scapegoats, and completing the usual cycle as we march toward fascism. You see the mechanics of our constitutional system are just fine......but we the people are in a deep stupor as to the reality which surrounds us. It requires for each of us to become aware and involved. This country will right the ship. The wolves will pay their price, rather than stealing this country blind, and my grandchildren will have a better future than I had..........I have no fear or hesitation.....we will succeed.

bizguy wrote:

I think you are incorrectly assuming the founding fathers were not forward thinkers. I believe if we had followed their plan of limited federal government as specified in the enumerated powers of the constitution and all other governing left to the states and people, we would be in much better shape today. Are you saying the constitution is irrelevant today?

Actually I think they were exceptional forward thinkers. When it comes to forward thinking, they were so far ahead of the leaders we have now that they make Nostradamus look like he had alzheimers.

BUT, even the best at that can only think SO FAR into the future before that limit is reached. What they envisioned lasted for over two centuries and two centuries is pushing the envelope on anyone's ability to prognosticate.
But our society has undergone such fundamental and dramatic change lately that I'm afraid that limit may have gotten reached. I could make the case for that with specifics but that would need another whole bunch of posts.

Bob wrote:

The government the founding fathers conceived for our country was applicable to the country they were able to envision. But our country is now vastly different from anything they could have ever foreseen.

What they could not have envisioned was a system where politicians got filthy rich and a full retirement and full benefits for the POTUS, and Congressmen (Senators one term of office and HOR members three terms of office). It's a goat rope. They serve MONEY and not Americans.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:

Bob wrote:

The government the founding fathers conceived for our country was applicable to the country they were able to envision. But our country is now vastly different from anything they could have ever foreseen.

What they could not have envisioned was a system where politicians got filthy rich and a full retirement and full benefits for the POTUS, and Congressmen (Senators one term of office and HOR members three terms of office). It's a goat rope. They serve MONEY and not Americans.

That's one. And there are plenty more other things they could have never envisioned.

They could have never envisioned the implications of how the electronic and digital revolutions have changed their concept of what a "press" was.
Same goes for the internet itself. That one is totally off their radar. And so is radar. lol
We need to remember that the only form of communications they could conceive of was someone putting that communication in the saddlebags of a horse. This was still a full 70 years before Samuel Morse said his first words "What hath God wrought" on his invention. And hell, if a lousy telegraph can scare someone enough to say "What hath God wrought", then God would be needing tranquilizers if he seen what we wrought now. It's delivered us such a fundamentally different world than anything 1776 could have ever imagined.

But there are plenty more.

There's another thing we need to keep in mind when debating this.
It's the track records of OTHER nations. Historically, how many nations have gone forever without replacing their political structures? The answer is that there has never been any nation which has not had it happen.
It it was a wager, I'd never bet on odds that long (that this one will be the first).

Are you afraid about: not having a phone? educating children? losing your job? going hungry? getting sick? buying meds? going broke? retiring? leaving inheritance? terrorism? security? energy?

Then we have a govt solution for you. Call 1-800-GOV-SLTN TODAY.

(not available in all states... some restrictions may apply due to govt regulations)

PkrBum wrote:Are you afraid about: not having a phone? educating children? losing your job? going hungry? getting sick? buying meds? going broke? retiring? leaving inheritance? terrorism? security? energy?

Then we have a govt solution for you. Call 1-800-GOV-SLTN TODAY.

(not available in all states... some restrictions may apply due to govt regulations)

You can make a good case for "big government" not being able to deliver what it's proponents hoped it can. I won't argue that point.
BUT, by the same token, I'm also arguing that the "small government" you're convinced is so preferable likely cannot supply our needs today either. Trying to apply the traditional concept of "small government" to the U.S. society of the 21st Century is like thinking you can hand a mechanic a wrench and a screwdriver and then expect him to repair a 2013 model car with that. It's the huge difference in sheer complexity which comes into play. I don't think at this time we have a simple structure which can deal with these complexities.
So if I'm right, then no "big government" OR "small government" scenario we know of now will do it.
And that almost by definition would point to something we have not yet devised.
Which is what I mean by maybe time quickly running out on what we have now. And when I say "quickly" I mean in historical terms. I don't mean next year or in ten years. That really short-term stuff is not my thing.
What I'm saying is there are now plenty of indications that it's gonna have to happen.

Hey once it began the decline, Rome lasted several hundred more years. But the bad news is that it remained in decline for that whole several hundred years. And they had emperors who were at least as competent as hussein obama and ronnie reagan, so I wouldn't count on those types making much difference. lol

What do you really need? The govt can no more fix any of that stuff than God can. That fear is supposed to drive individuals.

It isn't supposed to be an ideology.

PkrBum wrote:What do you really need? The govt can no more fix any of that stuff than God can. That fear is supposed to drive individuals.

It isn't supposed to be an ideology.

Now you're REALLY thinking outside the box. I like it. lol

What I'm afraid of though is nobody can take any of this seriously as long as that avatar is attached to it.
I really should change that to some college professor looking thing. Except most of us no longer trust them either. lol

[quote="Bob"]

bizguy wrote:

Bob wrote:

Once upon a time there existed a form of government that was workable and manageable because of its simplicity. However, over time we the people have chosen to relinquish many of our responsibilities to the federal government and by doing so have created an entity that is too large and diverse to be managed effectively. The founding fathers realized that a limited federal government was essential to the success of the new nation and created a list of enumerated powers to clearly define the role of the federal government.

The government the founding fathers conceived for our country was applicable to the country they were able to envision. But our country is now vastly different from anything they could have ever foreseen.

.....................................................

Yep. Imagine how much quicker the American Revolution would have unfolded had Washington and his troops been packing AR15's and cellphones.

Oh the humanity.

[quote="PkrBum"]What do you really need? The govt can no more fix any of that stuff than God can. That fear is supposed to drive individuals.

It isn't supposed to be an ideology.[/quote

Few people are Godly anymore and they have no fear of something that they do not believe in.

[quote="Bill"]

Bob wrote:

bizguy wrote:

Bob wrote:

Once upon a time there existed a form of government that was workable and manageable because of its simplicity. However, over time we the people have chosen to relinquish many of our responsibilities to the federal government and by doing so have created an entity that is too large and diverse to be managed effectively. The founding fathers realized that a limited federal government was essential to the success of the new nation and created a list of enumerated powers to clearly define the role of the federal government.

The government the founding fathers conceived for our country was applicable to the country they were able to envision. But our country is now vastly different from anything they could have ever foreseen.

.....................................................

Yep. Imagine how much quicker the American Revolution would have unfolded had Washington and his troops been packing AR15's and cellphones.

Oh the humanity.

About the same because we were stealing most of our arms and ammo from them. It would have been an even fight.

Idiot

So you deny the fact that we stole arm and ammo from the Brits? LOL, who is the idiot now?

I choose to believe that we as Americans like to believe that we all choose to believe in the[i] Constitution [/i]. . . . . . . in reality we all seek advantage for the benefit for one's self or their family in lieu of the nation.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:So you deny the fact that we stole arm and ammo from the Brits? LOL, who is the idiot now?

.......................................

Nope. Your troll remark as an answer to what was an obvious indulgence in what-if's speaks loudly.

You're still a prick.

Idiot.