Armed guard disarmed teen in Atlanta school shooting, says police chief

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/55742445-68/shooting-atlanta-police-says.html.csp

alecto wrote:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/55742445-68/shooting-atlanta-police-says.html.csp

If not armed...would the guard have been another victim?...

newswatcher wrote:

alecto wrote:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/55742445-68/shooting-atlanta-police-says.html.csp

If not armed...would the guard have been another victim?...

YEP

I think we need a great deal more information before reaching conclusions on the efficacy of the response. First, it appears this was a personal matter between two students. Typically, the shooter in a personal matter after exacting his revenge or whatever response with a gun.....well they are done. Many of the so called reports of "armed guards" stopping a shooter, is simply the reality that the shooter was done.

If follow up news reports show that the student was in the process of shooting other students and the armed guard stopped the same, it definitely would have relevancy in our discussion of gun safety. However, to suggest that a policeman in an Apartment complex was successful in capturing a rapist after he had raped someone.....well.....you get the point.

2seaoat wrote:I think we need a great deal more information before reaching conclusions on the efficacy of the response. First, it appears this was a personal matter between two students. Typically, the shooter in a personal matter after exacting his revenge or whatever response with a gun.....well they are done. Many of the so called reports of "armed guards" stopping a shooter, is simply the reality that the shooter was done.

If follow up news reports show that the student was in the process of shooting other students and the armed guard stopped the same, it definitely would have relevancy in our discussion of gun safety. However, to suggest that a policeman in an Apartment complex was successful in capturing a rapist after he had raped someone.....well.....you get the point.

So if he is done when confronted by an armed officer....he's stopped...what's the problem with that headline or statement?..Is it necessary to 'What If' every situation can we not be satisified that there were no more injuries/deaths?...Applaud the armed officer rather than questioning his or her importance...they did their job...

So if he is done when confronted by an armed officer....he's stopped...what's the problem with that headline or statement?.

Let me explain about the efficacy argument. In this same situation, the shooter shoots......4 minutes later a police officer enters the school and disarms the student. If the shooter was done, would it matter if it took the police officer 15 minutes, or if the officer was on duty in the school.

I will use the rape analogy in a large 1000 unit apartment complex. Management has seen a rape occur on the property and is concerned for its residents. It decides to ask the police to patrol more frequently. They do. A second rape occurs 9 months later and police capture the alleged perp. The management decides to hire an off duty police officer to work nights and walk patrol. Another rape occurs, and this time the officer apprehends the suspect and he is arrested. The victim is still raped. The question is what measures can be put in place which efficiently protects the residents. Some argue that the fact that the officer arrested the suspect proves the efficiency of the measure......but 6 months later another resident is raped, and again a suspect is arrested by the off duty officer......what is the efficacy of that off duty officer, when an on duty officer could have made both arrests and the person was still raped.

I think common sense tells you that having the capability to respond to a person with a gun.....with a gun is absolutely a solid deterrence. I like a locked gun safe in every school in America with voluntary training for those who are designated as responders in a school. However, the efficacy of armed guards on every bus, school, and little league game.....no this wild west answer is no answer at all.

newswatcher wrote:

2seaoat wrote:I think we need a great deal more information before reaching conclusions on the efficacy of the response. First, it appears this was a personal matter between two students. Typically, the shooter in a personal matter after exacting his revenge or whatever response with a gun.....well they are done. Many of the so called reports of "armed guards" stopping a shooter, is simply the reality that the shooter was done.

If follow up news reports show that the student was in the process of shooting other students and the armed guard stopped the same, it definitely would have relevancy in our discussion of gun safety. However, to suggest that a policeman in an Apartment complex was successful in capturing a rapist after he had raped someone.....well.....you get the point.

So if he is done when confronted by an armed officer....he's stopped...what's the problem with that headline or statement?..Is it necessary to 'What If' every situation can we not be satisified that there were no more injuries/deaths?...Applaud the armed officer rather than questioning his or her importance...they did their job...

What if....he wasn't done. What if he was looking for another victim. What if he only had 1 bullet in the chamber and he was reloading. What if he was answering a call on his cell phone. What if he had to go potty. It can go on and on...the fact is the shooter was disarmed by the guard and taken into custody.

The shooter was not able to reload because he was using one hand to hold up his pants.

Ghandi wrote:The shooter was not able to reload because he was using one hand to hold up his pants.

Why do you think of everything?

What if....he wasn't done. What if he was looking for another victim. What if he only had 1 bullet in the chamber and he was reloading. What if he was answering a call on his cell phone. What if he had to go potty. It can go on and on...the fact is the shooter was disarmed by the guard and taken into custody.



That is why we should have solid information before we jump to conclusions about the efficacy of armed guards. A person once almost drown in a car which was submerged after an accident, but for his scuba tank in the back seat. Let us mandate scuba tanks in every car in America. Efficacy of response requires probabilities and cost analysis.....not folksy John Wayne fantasies. When we spend billions to put full time armed folks in buildings to sit around and waste time, and like Colombine they are ineffective, I believe that is a mistake of epoch proportions. Trained volunteers and a locked gun locker in every school is a much more efficient way to provide deterrence.......but sadly......that will neither stop most planned mass murders.

2seaoat wrote:What if....he wasn't done. What if he was looking for another victim. What if he only had 1 bullet in the chamber and he was reloading. What if he was answering a call on his cell phone. What if he had to go potty. It can go on and on...the fact is the shooter was disarmed by the guard and taken into custody.



That is why we should have solid information before we jump to conclusions about the efficacy of armed guards. A person once almost drown in a car which was submerged after an accident, but for his scuba tank in the back seat. Let us mandate scuba tanks in every car in America. Efficacy of response requires probabilities and cost analysis.....not folksy John Wayne fantasies. When we spend billions to put full time armed folks in buildings to sit around and waste time, and like Colombine they are ineffective, I believe that is a mistake of epoch proportions. Trained volunteers and a locked gun locker in every school is a much more efficient way to provide deterrence.......but sadly......that will neither stop most planned mass murders.

Well not having armed guards hasn't worked out to well. Seems most of these mass shootings target places that do not have armed guards or prevent firearms on the premises.

2seaoat wrote:I think we need a great deal more information before reaching conclusions on the efficacy of the response. First, it appears this was a personal matter between two students. Typically, the shooter in a personal matter after exacting his revenge or whatever response with a gun.....well they are done. Many of the so called reports of "armed guards" stopping a shooter, is simply the reality that the shooter was done.

If follow up news reports show that the student was in the process of shooting other students and the armed guard stopped the same, it definitely would have relevancy in our discussion of gun safety. However, to suggest that a policeman in an Apartment complex was successful in capturing a rapist after he had raped someone.....well.....you get the point.

And the forum leader of the anti-gun folks discounts the actual events with an OPINION that is not based on fact.

Had this been another massacre, the biometrics, gun locks, more background checks mantra of Seaoat would have been pontificated across the airwaves.

As with the anti-gun crowd, the actions of a hero at a school prevented what could have been another Newtown event, but you will never hear the sounds of those words passing through their lips...or from Pappy Seaoat.



Seaoat,

Did the kid get his background check? What about his mental health eval? Did the kid go to a gunshow to get his weapon?

I'd say HELL NYET to all three and all three are areas you think will prevent these occurences from happening.

2seaoat wrote:What if....he wasn't done. What if he was looking for another victim. What if he only had 1 bullet in the chamber and he was reloading. What if he was answering a call on his cell phone. What if he had to go potty. It can go on and on...the fact is the shooter was disarmed by the guard and taken into custody.



That is why we should have solid information before we jump to conclusions about the efficacy of armed guards. A person once almost drown in a car which was submerged after an accident, but for his scuba tank in the back seat. Let us mandate scuba tanks in every car in America. Efficacy of response requires probabilities and cost analysis.....not folksy John Wayne fantasies. When we spend billions to put full time armed folks in buildings to sit around and waste time, and like Colombine they are ineffective, I believe that is a mistake of epoch proportions. Trained volunteers and a locked gun locker in every school is a much more efficient way to provide deterrence.......but sadly......that will neither stop most planned mass murders.

No no no....the incident has already ocurred and for whatever reason an armed guard disarmed the suspect and held him in custody until the police arrived. No jumping to conclusions in this case.

In Gulf Breeze a couple of years ago...an irate grandparent went to the GBHS school armed with a gun...she was apprehended in the parking lot by an armed school resource officer (GBPD) and placed under arrest. No one was injured and the event had a successful outcome...

Sal wrote:And this completes the NRA's argument for high capacity magazines.

and where did you see how many shots were fired?

PACEDOG#1 wrote:I'd say HELL NYET to all three and all three are areas you think will prevent these occurences from happening.

Using this same logic, murderers don't observe the law that says you're not supposed to murder people. Obviously that law doesn't work, so we should get rid of it, right? Same applies to theft, rape, assault, etc... No one who commits any of these crimes submits to the law that says you're not supposed to commit these acts, so to hell with these laws!

The only laws worth having are those that a criminal would adhere to!

No one was injured and the event had a successful outcome...



The incident in question did not have a successful outcome. The student was shot. Like they were shot in Columbine with two armed folks at the school. No the answer is with control modules on vehicles. They will not stop every killing in America. That is not their design, but biometric trigger locks, chipped guns, dynamic smart foid cards, background checks, and registration will not stop killing. It will greatly reduce impaired driving deaths, and unauthorized gun possession. We can lower gun and vehicle deaths. We can never eliminate them. We cannot continue to allow the perfect to be the enemy of good.

2seaoat wrote: No one was injured and the event had a successful outcome...



The incident in question did not have a successful outcome. The student was shot. Like they were shot in Columbine with two armed folks at the school. No the answer is with control modules on vehicles. They will not stop every killing in America. That is not their design, but biometric trigger locks, chipped guns, dynamic smart foid cards, background checks, and registration will not stop killing. It will greatly reduce impaired driving deaths, and unauthorized gun possession. We can lower gun and vehicle deaths. We can never eliminate them. We cannot continue to allow the perfect to be the enemy of good.

Registration is the first step towards confiscation, since sandy hook some democrats have made that point abundantly clear and some have even put forth legislation to do exactly that.

Once again how will a national registry stop gun violence, how will it prevent gun deaths?

alecto wrote:

2seaoat wrote: No one was injured and the event had a successful outcome...



The incident in question did not have a successful outcome. The student was shot. Like they were shot in Columbine with two armed folks at the school. No the answer is with control modules on vehicles. They will not stop every killing in America. That is not their design, but biometric trigger locks, chipped guns, dynamic smart foid cards, background checks, and registration will not stop killing. It will greatly reduce impaired driving deaths, and unauthorized gun possession. We can lower gun and vehicle deaths. We can never eliminate them. We cannot continue to allow the perfect to be the enemy of good.

Registration is the first step towards confiscation, since sandy hook some democrats have made that point abundantly clear and some have even put forth legislation to do exactly that.

Once again how will a national registry stop gun violence, how will it prevent gun deaths?

.......................................................................

To hell with that son....cofuscation's always first step toward registratin' causin' the first thing they take is yer rights, ammaright...??? Then they get to registratin' writin' your name on a list and send ya off to re-enlightment class at a FEMUR camp.




Neighbors describe a hot-headed loner who would patrol his property at night with a flashlight and an assault rifle.

“He's against the government — starting with Obama on down,” James Arrington, police chief of the neighboring town of Pinckard, told reporters.

“He doesn't like law enforcement or the government telling him what to do. He's just a loner.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/alabama-hostage-cries-parents-article-1.1253465#ixzz2Jh4OhyAC

boards of FL wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:I'd say HELL NYET to all three and all three are areas you think will prevent these occurences from happening.

Using this same logic, murderers don't observe the law that says you're not supposed to murder people. Obviously that law doesn't work, so we should get rid of it, right? Same applies to theft, rape, assault, etc... No one who commits any of these crimes submits to the law that says you're not supposed to commit these acts, so to hell with these laws!

The only laws worth having are those that a criminal would adhere to!

Part of the problem is that the government doesn't enforce the laws already on the books. That is where the discussion needs to begin. Making more laws that they are going to ignore is the definition of asinine. The laws that you folks want made will punish those of us who obey the law.