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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » How Democrats are losing 2020, already: Trump must not win reelection, but the candidates lining up to beat him are giving a good chance

How Democrats are losing 2020, already: Trump must not win reelection, but the candidates lining up to beat him are giving a good chance

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RealLindaL
bigdog
zsomething
gatorfan
othershoe1030
9 posters

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Telstar

Telstar

Sal wrote:Bernie is a politician thru and thru, although he plays a saint on TV.

He has no aversion to getting in the muck.

But if you think Bernie's dirty, Trump 2020 is gonna set a whole new standard of filth.





Bernie can only be as dirty as the top of a turd. Trump was born as dirty as the bottom of a turd.

zsomething



Sal wrote:Bernie is a politician thru and thru, although he plays a saint on TV.

He has no aversion to getting in the muck.

But if you think Bernie's dirty, Trump 2020 is gonna set a whole new standard of filth.

Of that, I have no doubt. Trump doesn't even have basic sense about being nasty, and he can be provoked into anything. If Kamala Harris or Corey Booker are on the ticket, I'll be surprised if Trump doesn't drop the n-word somewhere down the line...

Telstar

Telstar

zsomething wrote:
Sal wrote:Bernie is a politician thru and thru, although he plays a saint on TV.

He has no aversion to getting in the muck.

But if you think Bernie's dirty, Trump 2020 is gonna set a whole new standard of filth.

Of that, I have no doubt.  Trump doesn't even have basic sense about being nasty, and he can be provoked into anything.  If Kamala Harris or Corey Booker are on the ticket, I'll be surprised if Trump doesn't drop the n-word somewhere down the line...



LOL, I would pay to see the Orange Douchebag do that, but let's face it he will only go up in the polls among his base. Even Diamond and Silk will have some excuse for it and place the blame on the Dems. Twisted Evil

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Well, thanks everyone; I have just learned so much. I had no idea about AOC's college background. Indeed DJT calling her a "bartender", that having that job (one I had at one time too) attempting to put her down and minimize her accomplishments. He is true to form.

As to Bernie, so true. I had forgotten about his Russian involvements. Given our current political situation with them this really presents a super negative light on him. Even without knowing what I just read about his hiring hit people to trash opponents is not at all what we need in this campaign. My main fear about him was the fanatical nature of his supporters and having them turn their backs again on the eventual nominee. I hope he flames out soon to give the rest of the field some breathing room.

We need to support each other and fight like hell against the Russian menace we are now enduring. It is time to cut no slack!

Telstar

Telstar

othershoe1030 wrote:Well, thanks everyone; I have just learned so much. I had no idea about AOC's college background. Indeed DJT calling her a "bartender", that having that job (one I had at one time too) attempting to put her down and minimize her accomplishments. He is true to form.

As to Bernie, so true. I had forgotten about his Russian involvements. Given our current political situation with them this really presents a super negative light on him. Even without knowing what I just read about his hiring hit people to trash opponents is not at all what we need in this campaign. My main fear about him was the fanatical nature of his supporters and having them turn their backs again on the eventual nominee. I hope he flames out soon to give the rest of the field some breathing room.

We need to support each other and fight like hell against the Russian menace we are now enduring. It is time to cut no slack!




Don't believe what you read if it comes from DJT. Don't forget that Bernie is still refusing to show his returns. What is Bernie hiding?

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

Another thing that's troubling me today, is listening to the jabbering about Joe Biden's "unwanted touching" complaints by a few women. Certainly this is not on the level of sexual assault but not a plus for the Biden team.

Here we have the morally bankrupt POTUS, who was voted into office by people who hoped "he'd shake things up" and "get things done" while totally dismissing his personal history.

On the other hand, I hope the Democrats get away from looking for some kind of saint. Why can't we find someone "who can get things done that benefit the country" without throwing out good people because of some small flaw? I hope this dithering about Biden isn't a preview of what's to come.

To think the Republicans can make hay over some small thing while blindly supporting the con man who they back is sickening.

RealLindaL



othershoe1030 wrote:
To think the Republicans can make hay over some small thing while blindly supporting the con man who they back is sickening.

The hypocrisy is nothing less than stunning -- and, yes, sickening to the core.

bigdog



So Buttigeig is hip because he likes Hamilton.
Would that be the play or the actual musings of Alexander Hamilton?
I hear the play is very entertaining, but I haven't heard any music from it that I really care for.
And if he likes old Alex himself, that's enough to make me vote against him for sure.

Anyway, all this me too garbage being tossed at him just solidifies my decision to vote for Joe Biden even more.
The man's a hugger. So was my Uncle Miles. And my Uncle Miles was one of the most wonderful, loving people I ever knew. Also, one of the three or four real Christians that I've ever known.
I'd hate to be a man in today's world. I feel sorry for you guys. There must be a lot of confusion.

I could just imagine taking a girl to a movie and having to ask if I could stretch my arm out on the backrest to her seat. How the hell do men make a first move anymore??????????

Telstar

Telstar

bigdog wrote:So Buttigeig is hip because he likes Hamilton.
Would that be the play or the actual musings of Alexander Hamilton?
I hear the play is very entertaining, but I haven't heard any music from it that I really care for.
And if he likes old Alex himself, that's enough to make me vote against him for sure.

Anyway, all this me too garbage being tossed at him just solidifies my decision to vote for Joe Biden even more.
The man's a hugger. So was my Uncle Miles. And my Uncle Miles was one of the most wonderful, loving people I ever knew. Also, one of the three or four real Christians that I've ever known.
I'd hate to be a man in today's world. I feel sorry for you guys. There must be a lot of confusion.

I could just imagine taking a girl to a movie and having to ask if I could stretch my arm out on the backrest to her seat. How the hell do men make a first move anymore??????????




Listen to the lyrics of this Hamilton song. King George was right but it took them until 2016 to put him on his throne again. Now if only something could be done about the shithole states that keep placing corrupt republicans into positions of power.



RealLindaL



bigdog wrote:
The man's a hugger. So was my Uncle Miles. And my Uncle Miles was one of the most wonderful, loving people I ever knew. Also, one of the three or four real Christians that I've ever known.
I'd hate to be a man in today's world. I feel sorry for you guys. There must be a lot of confusion.

Same feelings here, bd, and my hugger was my sweet Uncle Sid, who never did anything except make me feel cherished. I wish he were still alive to hug me today. {{{sniff}}}

That said, I do wish Biden hadn't made light of it all today. He just didn't need to do that. Rats - more fuel for the fire.

bigdog



That's the first time I've heard those songs Telstar. Not too bad, I'll have to admit. Also, prophetic. Our democracy is still so young, and Americans just do not realize how young it truly is. We were in Philadelphia back in August and went to the Museum of the American Revolution there. I was amazed to see that George Washington's original battle tent still survives and is in amazingly good shape, even after nearly 250 years. But when I think of the span of my life being nearly 70 years so far, and how short that seems to me, and then realize that only about 3 of my lifetimes ago I would have been in colonial times, I have to admit that when we relative children on the world stage go around telling the rest of the world we are the greatest, it must be truly galling to them. We are still very young and still very ripe for a dictator promising us greatness and exceptionalism in exchange for our freedoms to emerge. And it seems he is already here. King George was right. He's got to be beaten a year from November, and the polls say Biden does best against him than anybody else. I expect Biden to be clumsy in his campaign, to get into trouble at least once a month over something that comes out of his mouth, because that's him. But beating Trump is what it's about in my book.

Telstar

Telstar

bigdog wrote:That's the first time I've heard those songs Telstar. Not too bad, I'll have to admit.  Also, prophetic. Our democracy is still so young, and Americans just do not realize how young it truly is. We were in Philadelphia back in August and went to the Museum of the American Revolution there. I was amazed to see that George Washington's original battle tent still survives and is in amazingly good shape, even after nearly 250 years. But when I think of the span of my life being nearly 70 years so far, and how short that seems to me, and then realize that only about 3 of my lifetimes ago I would have been in colonial times, I have to admit that when we relative children on the world stage go around telling the rest of the world we are the greatest, it must be truly galling to them. We are still very young and still very ripe for a dictator promising us greatness and exceptionalism in exchange for our freedoms to emerge. And it seems he is already here. King George was right. He's got to be beaten a year from November, and the polls say Biden does best against him than anybody else. I expect Biden to be clumsy in his campaign, to get into trouble at least once a month over something that comes out of his mouth, because that's him. But beating Trump is what it's about in my book.




Biden today





Here is Laura Trump on how "convenient" this smear campaign is.

“I don't know Joe Biden personally I've never met him. I don't really know his character but he's been in the public eye, Sandra, for so long that for all of a sudden the timing of this, it just seems very convenient,” Trump said on “America’s Newsroom.”


"If I were already in the race for the 2020 Democratic nomination I probably would not like to run against Joe Biden.”



https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lara-trump-the-timing-of-the-biden-accusations-seem-convenient

RealLindaL



So maybe Lara's not a real fan of her father-in-law?

Telstar

Telstar

RealLindaL wrote:So maybe Lara's not a real fan of her father-in-law?




Or, she's hinting that a Dem is behind this Biden smear. Now what Dem would stand to benefit the most from Biden stepping aside? Hmm...or perhaps, the Russians are behind this smear. Now what Dem candidate has ties to the Russians?

zsomething



Telstar wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:So maybe Lara's not a real fan of her father-in-law?




Or, she's hinting that a Dem is behind this Biden smear. Now what Dem would stand to benefit the most from Biden stepping aside? Hmm...or perhaps, the Russians are behind this smear. Now what Dem candidate has ties to the Russians?


I don't want to discount anyone's complaints against Biden... but I'd be surprised if it wasn't, at least in part, a hit-job on the behalf of Bernie Sanders.

Bernie's cult-zombie base is out to do hit-jobs on anybody who isn't Bernie. They want Bernie or nobody.

This is why I wish some natural event that nobody can blame on anybody would get Bernie out of the race. It doesn't have to kill him (although I really don't care because I hate the fuckin' self-worshiping one-note schmuck), but something needs to get him out of this. If he's just voted out in the primary, his cultists will refuse to accept that the results were fair (same as they did last time) and they'll sit home and pout and let Trump back in. And if they get their way and make this fuckwit our nominee, then we'll lose to Trump because, even though the Bernie-bots just loooovvvveeee their sainted piece-of-shit, nobody else does. He'll get creamed. Bernie's doing nobody any good except Bernie. He's the reason we have Trump now, and may be the reason we get Trump again.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

zsomething wrote:
Telstar wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:So maybe Lara's not a real fan of her father-in-law?




Or, she's hinting that a Dem is behind this Biden smear. Now what Dem would stand to benefit the most from Biden stepping aside? Hmm...or perhaps, the Russians are behind this smear. Now what Dem candidate has ties to the Russians?


I don't want to discount anyone's complaints against Biden... but I'd be surprised if it wasn't, at least in part, a hit-job on the behalf of Bernie Sanders.

Bernie's cult-zombie base is out to do hit-jobs on anybody who isn't Bernie.  They want Bernie or nobody.

This is why I wish some natural event that nobody can blame on anybody would get Bernie out of the race.   It doesn't have to kill him (although I really don't care because I hate the fuckin' self-worshiping one-note schmuck), but something needs to get him out of this.  If he's just voted out in the primary, his cultists will refuse to accept that the results were fair (same as they did last time) and they'll sit home and pout and let Trump back in.   And if they get their way and make this fuckwit our nominee, then we'll lose to Trump because, even though the Bernie-bots just loooovvvveeee their sainted piece-of-shit, nobody else does.  He'll get creamed.  Bernie's doing nobody any good except Bernie.   He's the reason we have Trump now, and may be the reason we get Trump again.

Just stop it. I'm a Bernie supporter and I don't believe he was responsible for Drumpf's "success". Those so-called Berniebots were more than likely a creation of the far right and whatever other countries interfered in our election. I fit the "hippie" demographic, but I wasn't a hippie, other than being a vocal opponent of the Vietnam War. Bernie is repetitive because he needs to emphasize his point...something that most candidates for office do on a regular basis. Bernie has always caucused with the Democrats, and I don't care whether he wears that label or not. His economics resonate with me, and I have worked in many types of businesses throughout the years...lived the decline of the middle class under Reagan...and I understand the underlying issues better than most. Bernie didn't lose a beat; he went straight out and campaigned for Hillary, and he advised his supporters to vote for her. Your criticism of him is just as bad as DeusX and his hatred for Hillary. It's got to stop.

Telstar

Telstar

Floridatexan wrote:
zsomething wrote:
Telstar wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:So maybe Lara's not a real fan of her father-in-law?




Or, she's hinting that a Dem is behind this Biden smear. Now what Dem would stand to benefit the most from Biden stepping aside? Hmm...or perhaps, the Russians are behind this smear. Now what Dem candidate has ties to the Russians?


I don't want to discount anyone's complaints against Biden... but I'd be surprised if it wasn't, at least in part, a hit-job on the behalf of Bernie Sanders.

Bernie's cult-zombie base is out to do hit-jobs on anybody who isn't Bernie.  They want Bernie or nobody.

This is why I wish some natural event that nobody can blame on anybody would get Bernie out of the race.   It doesn't have to kill him (although I really don't care because I hate the fuckin' self-worshiping one-note schmuck), but something needs to get him out of this.  If he's just voted out in the primary, his cultists will refuse to accept that the results were fair (same as they did last time) and they'll sit home and pout and let Trump back in.   And if they get their way and make this fuckwit our nominee, then we'll lose to Trump because, even though the Bernie-bots just loooovvvveeee their sainted piece-of-shit, nobody else does.  He'll get creamed.  Bernie's doing nobody any good except Bernie.   He's the reason we have Trump now, and may be the reason we get Trump again.

Just stop it.  I'm a Bernie supporter and I don't believe he was responsible for Drumpf's "success".  Those so-called Berniebots were more than likely a creation of the far right and whatever other countries interfered in our election.  I fit the "hippie" demographic, but I wasn't a hippie, other than being a vocal opponent of the Vietnam War.  Bernie is repetitive because he needs to emphasize his point...something that most candidates for office do on a regular basis.  Bernie has always caucused with the Democrats, and I don't care whether he wears that label or not.  His economics resonate with me, and I have worked in many types of businesses throughout the years...lived the decline of the middle class under Reagan...and I understand the underlying issues better than most.  Bernie didn't lose a beat; he went straight out and campaigned for Hillary, and he advised his supporters to vote for her.  Your criticism of him is just as bad as DeusX and his hatred for Hillary. It's got to stop.





Okay, so let Bernie show his returns and quiet the grumblings against him. I don't hate Bernie but I want to make sure he doesn't have TOO much in common with Trump. Honeymoons in Moscow are one thing but refusing to show his tax returns are another.

zsomething



Floridatexan wrote:

Just stop it.

Nope. I gotta speak my mind about him. I think Democrats are making a huge mistake giving this guy attention. He's dividing up our side and building a cult that hates everybody but him. That's far from healthy.


 
I'm a Bernie supporter and I don't believe he was responsible for Drumpf's "success".

Support who you want to, that's everyone's right... but I also have the right to say I think that's a mistake, and, considering what happened last time, I feel pretty much of an obligation to speak out on it. It's too important to get Trump out of office to play nice about this, so... sorry. I like ya, but I'm not gonna be nice about Bernie. If we fuck up and make him the nominee, I'll most certainly vote for him, but I know it'll be futile.


 Those so-called Berniebots were more than likely a creation of the far right and whatever other countries interfered in our election.

Oh, I have no doubt the right and Russia were pushing for Bernie. Think, for a second, about why they preferred Bernie to Hillary. They want the Dems to have the weakest candidate they could possible have. That was Bernie. If we nominate that fool, we're going to get stomped.


 I fit the "hippie" demographic, but I wasn't a hippie, other than being a vocal opponent of the Vietnam War.

I've got long hair and share the end goals of a lot of hippies, but I've dealt with enough of 'em not to respect their style at all. They never actually want to do anything. Ideologues are no asset. And Bernie is an ideologue.


 
Bernie is repetitive because he needs to emphasize his point...something that most candidates for office do on a regular basis.

Bernie is repetitive because he has no real ideas and no creativity. His solutions for things are always the same. No wonky details, no nuts-and-bolts, and when he gets backed into a corner about how things will be achieved, it's always the same thing: "Millions of young people will march and demand it." That's not a plan. It's not even close to one. It's a surrender, an admission that "I don't have a plan, but I think if we chant and wish hard enough, it'll happen by magic." Bernie is selling the lefty version of the same kind of "Mexico will pay for the wall" shit that Trump sells. We need to recognize it for what it is.

 Bernie has always caucused with the Democrats, and I don't care whether he wears that label or not.

So it's okay if he won't admit to liking us... but just wants to use us? I'm not good with that.


 
His economics resonate with me,

WHAT ECONOMICS?!?! The sonofabitch HAS no economic knowledge, at all! I get that there's economic inequality and that it's a problem, but his actual plans to deal with it are zero. You ask him the nitty-gritty hard data and nuts and bolts of any plan he has, and suddenly it's like listening to a four-year-old tell you how he thinks an internal combustion engine works.

If you like Bernie's basic ideas -- and those aren't bad -- then ditch his no-answers-having ass and go with someone like Elizabeth Warren, who displays actual wonky knowledge of how some of them might get done. There are a lot of candidates who share Bernie's basic goals, and they (A) have actual realistic details on how they might be done, and (B) might actually get elected. Bernie's got neither. Bernie just has an ego and a crusty-old-curmudgeon demeanor that people think is funny and so they turned him into a campy cult figure. Half the gas in his tank is that he reminds people of Larry David. He's not a serious candidate in any way, shape, or form, he's just a "character," and if he goes against Trump, we're going to get creamed.


and I have worked in many types of businesses throughout the years...lived the decline of the middle class under Reagan...and I understand the underlying issues better than most.

Then you ought to be able to see that the guy has no realistic economic knowledge. He identifies a problem, but that's easy -- anybody can spot that problem. Without realistic means to fix it, though, what good is it? He's just taking up space and is in the way of people with actual ideas.


 Bernie didn't lose a beat; he went straight out and campaigned for Hillary, and he advised his supporters to vote for her.

He was very half-assed about it, and his supporters were horrible. I went through a lot of Bernie-supporters, with Caucus99 and all that shit. I'm not buying for a second that Bernie's not the reason we have Trump. He absolutely is... and, so far, it's looking like he'll be the reason we might get Trump again, because his cultish supporters are already attacking anyone who's not Bernie. Sorry, but, nope, not falling for it.


 
Your criticism of him is just as bad as DeusX and his hatred for Hillary. It's got to stop.


Nope. Again, sorry, I like ya, but Bernie's an awful candidate, he'd be an even worse president. Imagine him facing down Putin? Jesus. Deus partially hates Hillary 'cuz he has some thing against women. My reasons for not liking Bernie are due to his abilities, and his demeanor. If I wanted a thin-skinned, bad-tempered old narcissist who repeats hollow promises over and over, governs by cult, won't show his taxes, and has shady ties to Russians, then... I've already got that. I'm trying to get rid of that, not substitute it for our side's model.

So, sorry. I'll vote for Bernie if it comes to that, and you've got my word on it, but while the primary's going on, I'm going at him with a hammer. He's screwing things up, and every single other candidate we have is a better bet than him. Argue in his favor if you want, but I won't be.

RealLindaL



I hope every thinking Democrat (and any independent in an open primary state) will heed z-something's words, which are absolutely full of truth and logic.  

Bernie's not presidential material for all the very reasons z cites, most notably that he has no practical, workable plans for how to achieve his lofty goals.   None!

Furthermore, I'm inclined to opine, since Bernie's not completely stupid, that, deep down inside, he knows damn well he's out of his league, no matter how smitten he is with the idea of being president.  

I'm with z in committing to vote for virtually anyone other than Trump, but honestly, when it comes to Bernie, I'd be doing so with not a whole helluva lot less fear and trepidation.

Telstar

Telstar

So Millionaire Bernie says he will release 10 years worth of returns soon. Smart move Bernie. Only gangsters and traitors need to hide the truth from the public.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/09/politics/bernie-sanders-millionaire-tax-returns/index.html

Guest


Guest

Listened to the launch of another dem candidate on npr today Seth Moulton or something like that. A governor. Sounds pretty mainstream moderate except for the climate change nonsense. But what leftist wouldn't want their boot on the neck of production and prosperity. He was apparently a military officer. So the Obama progressive "responsibility to protect" doctrine would still be in play for intervention wherever. Just thght I'd pass it along.

Telstar

Telstar

PkrBum wrote: Oh please let my daughter shove a pillow over my face and put an end to my miserable existence, so the world will be a better place.  




How Democrats are losing 2020, already: Trump must not win reelection, but the candidates lining up to beat him are giving a good chance - Page 2 Origin11

Sal

Sal

Watched quite a bit of the CNN town halls last night.

There's no doubt that Elizabeth Warren is the smartest, can best articulate her positions on issues, and has an expert handle on the policies to
address those issues. She'd make the best President of anyone in the field, I'm just not sure she's the best candidate. The electorate largely doesn't care about policy, and I don't know how badly she's damaged by that Pocahontas nonsense. You can't go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.

If you haven't listened to her, I highly recommend you take the time. She just might change your mind.

Was disappointingly unimpressed by Harris, Bernie was just Bernie, and I didn't stay up late enough to watch Buttigieg.

Of course, I'll enthusiastically vote for any of them over the orange menace.

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:Listened to the launch of another dem candidate on npr today Seth Moulton

Moulton took a shot at the queen and missed badly.

That's not how you get to be President.

Fuck off.

zsomething



Yep, Warren is a force to be reckoned with, for sure. She has a lot of the same goals Bernie does, but she gives nuts and bolts realistic details on how those things might actually be achieved. She's a policy wonk, and I like policy wonks. I do worry a bit about the "Pocohontas" crap because the voters are so stupid and shallow they'll chase the shiny object every time... but, if she can get around that, she could pick up some traction.

I missed most of the town halls. I watched a good bit of Klobachar, and I like her, she's smart, but she's got no charm, and that'll hurt her. It's going to be hard for her to catch the public's attention, although she does have good ideas. Like I said, shallow public...

Then Bernie came on and I got tired of watching him drag his talking points around the track one more damn time, so I muted it and went back to reading my book (Fields of Fire by James Webb -- read it before, but that was back in high school) and, typically, konked out. Must be getting old, 'cuz reading or watching movies seems to put me under within 20 minutes lately. Anyway, I woke up at around midnight, so I'd missed the others. Ah well, I've probably heard most of it before anyway.

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