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Are You Really into Socialism?

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2seaoat
zsomething
polecat
EmeraldGhost
Wordslinger
PkrBum
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EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

bigdog wrote:I believe 100% in socialism. My husband and I both receive social security checks into our bank accounts every month. My husband receives a check from the VA into his bank account every month. I receive a retirement check from the State of Florida into my bank account every month.
When we drive to the doctor's office on a road paid for by the government from my taxes and when we receive our bills from that doctor they are incredibly small. We have both medicare and a supplemental plan that is partly paid by the government and it also pays most of the cost of our prescription drugs. We don't worry about someone hitting us over the head and taking our drugs away on the way home from the pharmacy because we know we can always call a policeman to help, and when he comes he will not send us a bill. Sometimes my husband just goes to the VA for his medical care, and then the only bill we get is for meds. No doctor bills at all for him. I'm pretty sure the government is paying those doctors.    All of our kids went to public schools until they got into college and it cost nothing.  It  would have been very nice if we hadn't had to help them pay for those college expenses, but that would have been socialism, right? Sounds to me like the socialistic stuff costs a lot less than those capitalistic colleges do.
Without socialism, a lot of old people would be starving on the streets today. I'll guarantee you, the churches we have around today wouldn't be feeding them. They believe that if you don't work, you don't eat.

Did you ever consider you have received and will eventually receive way more benefits from your life on the government teat than you've ever really paid in taxes?  

Not putting you down personally for it ... I myself chose  a career among the Nobless d'epee and subsequently the Noblesse de robe  (I prefer those terms to "the government teat"  Cool ) .  

Once you added up all of my salary, benefits, job security, etc.  I made as much or more than many doctors even ... and without ever having even completed my Bachelor's degree.   I saw the advantages early on for one coming from my station in life of choosing to be one of "the king's men" & jumped on it.  It's kind of like the Roman Legionnaires who received a big monetary payment and plot of land after 25 years back in the day (if they survived 25 years as a Legionnaire, that is!).  But that wasn't the case for the vast majority of Romans, was it? And certainly would not have been sustainable.

Now I don't regret my life on the government teat one bit ... sure was good to me.  Never got rich at it and never expected to  .... but was able to become the man of (modest) leisure in my fifties as expected.  But I recognize also what an uncommon thing that is for the vast majority in the private sector.

Now I'm certainly not arguing against all government programs or functions (social security, roads, police, etc) But let me ask you this .... how is it you propose it would be economically sustainable if we extended those benefits we accrued as government "servants" (lol)  to the entire rabble of commoners in our society?  How would you finance such a thing?  Eat the rich?



Last edited by EmeraldGhost on 9/21/2018, 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total

27Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 Empty Re: Are You Really into Socialism? 9/21/2018, 10:12 am

zsomething



There's always this to consider.


Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 2987025203_fc2c517522_o

And that's old data -- it's worse now. States like Mississippi and 'Bama, for instance, are taking in around $3 at this point. If the Republican party truly played by the rules they talk about all the time, most of their states would be sunk.

A lot of the people benefiting from "socialism" have no idea what it even is. They just hear Hannity talk about it and they repeat it like canaries. Very few people are promoting flat-out "socialism," anyway... just taking a little from socialism, a little from capitalism, to make something that works best. "Pure" anything usually fails.

28Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 Empty Re: Are You Really into Socialism? 9/21/2018, 10:14 am

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

zsomething wrote:There's always this to consider.


Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 2987025203_fc2c517522_o

And that's old data -- it's worse now.  States like Mississippi and 'Bama, for instance, are taking in around $3 at this point.  If the Republican party truly played by the rules they talk about all the time, most of their states would be sunk.

A lot of the people benefiting from "socialism" have no idea what it even is.   They just hear Hannity talk about it and they repeat it like canaries.   Very few people are promoting flat-out "socialism," anyway... just taking a little from socialism, a little from capitalism, to make something that works best.  "Pure" anything usually fails.

I know this ... Mississippi nowadays has some dang fine roads compared to some supposedly "wealthier" States I travel through. Of course they have a long tradition of electing Senators and Congresspersons who know how to "bring home the bacon" !

29Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 Empty Re: Are You Really into Socialism? 9/21/2018, 10:45 am

zsomething



EmeraldGhost wrote:

I know this ... Mississippi nowadays has some dang fine roads compared to some supposedly "wealthier" States I travel through.   Of course they have a long tradition of electing Senators and Congresspersons who know how to "bring home the bacon" !

I dunno, a lot of our roads are still pretty bad. But whatever we do have, places like California are paying for it.

Provided the people here actually get it, that is. A lot of that pork never makes it to the public. When Haley Barbour took in Katrina money, he left a lot of the state devastated while funneling the cash to his brother Jeppie (who's a really *special* guy), who was suddenly a "business." Much of it went to build condos - with profits going to Haley and Jeppie - in areas not even affected by the storm. Mississippians turn a blind eye to it 'cuz Haley's an old "Citizen's Council" fella who mentions Jesus enough to keep 'em pacified, no matter how much he steals.

Meanwhile, Haley let businesses here fail because he held back Obama's stimulus money. Dude was a piece of work. Glad he's gone, but the new guy's not much better. That's Mississippi...

30Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 Empty Re: Are You Really into Socialism? 9/21/2018, 11:08 am

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

zsomething wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:

I know this ... Mississippi nowadays has some dang fine roads compared to some supposedly "wealthier" States I travel through.   Of course they have a long tradition of electing Senators and Congresspersons who know how to "bring home the bacon" !

I dunno, a lot of our roads are still pretty bad.  

Perhaps I frequent different locales in Mississippi than you?  Now Louisiana ... their roads suck pretty much everywhere!

btw ... I never said just who Mississippi politicans bring home the bulk of the bacon to ... seems a lot of folks are happy with just getting some crumbs.

31Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 Empty Re: Are You Really into Socialism? 9/21/2018, 11:31 am

Telstar

Telstar

zsomething wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:

I know this ... Mississippi nowadays has some dang fine roads compared to some supposedly "wealthier" States I travel through.   Of course they have a long tradition of electing Senators and Congresspersons who know how to "bring home the bacon" !

I dunno, a lot of our roads are still pretty bad.  But whatever we do have, places like California are paying for it.

Provided the people here actually get it, that is.  A lot of that pork never makes it to the public.  When Haley Barbour took in Katrina money, he left a lot of the state devastated while funneling the cash to his brother Jeppie (who's a really *special* guy), who was suddenly a "business."  Much of it went to build condos - with profits going to Haley and Jeppie - in areas not even affected by the storm.  Mississippians turn a blind eye to it 'cuz Haley's an old "Citizen's Council" fella who mentions Jesus enough to keep 'em pacified, no matter how much he steals.

Meanwhile, Haley let businesses here fail because he held back Obama's stimulus money.  Dude was a piece of work.  Glad he's gone, but the new guy's not much better.   That's Mississippi...







Barbour and his cracker barrel boy friends.


Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 Ccc-ha10

32Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 Empty Re: Are You Really into Socialism? 9/21/2018, 12:00 pm

bigdog



Yes Ghost, I understand that we will probably receive more from Social Security and the State of Florida than we paid in, particularly if my memory is correct. From what I remember, I paid nothing at all into my retirement to the state when I worked for them, they financed it all. That system has changed now, which is why our system is having a difficult time finding enough employees.
And though my Social Security check is small, my husbands is quite a nice amount. For some years when he was employed, he reached the max per year in payments and didn't have to pay any more until the end of the year.
If you think I should feel one pang of guilt about it, I hate to disappoint you. I don't. I admit that I think the government should take care of those who are not able to take care of themselves. I believe in food stamps, welfare, social security and medicare.
If you are so worried about the government paying out too many benefits, maybe you should be arguing that Social Security payments by those still working should not have a cap on them. Making the wealthy pay on all their income would make the system financially stable for years to come.
Americans, no matter what this last fluke of an election seemed to show, are not going to allow their government to take away the benefits they already have. That's not human nature. We care about our problems, not the governments, not really. That's why socialism is inevitable.

Having said that, I have no love for Bernie Sanders anymore. His wing of the party gave us Donald Trump in the White House. And $15 an hour is too high a minimum wage, IMO.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

bigdog wrote: ....
If you think I should feel one pang of guilt about it, I hate to disappoint you. I don't. ....

Oh, I would never suggest that you should. I certainly don't.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

bigdog wrote:
If you are so worried about the government paying out too many benefits, maybe you should be arguing that Social Security payments by those still working should not have a cap on them. ....


Well, I can assure you I'm not "worried about" those things.   I just take issue with the idea our country can financially guarantee the same level of benefits many gubbmint workers  (or the Noblesse de robe, as I like to say) receive to the entire population.   I have no illusions of my particular privilege in that respect.

Telstar

Telstar

EmeraldGhost wrote:
bigdog wrote: ....  
If you think I should feel one pang of guilt about it, I hate to disappoint you. I don't. ....

Oh, I would never suggest that you should.  I certainly don't.  




After all dog it's not like you did something really stupid like tossing away your vote on Gary's Johnson.




Deus X

Deus X

EmeraldGhost wrote:

  I just take issue with the idea our country can financially guarantee the same level of benefits many gubbmint workers  (or the Noblesse de robe, as I like to say) receive to the entire population.  

The United States can pay ANY obligation denominated in U.S. dollars.

bigdog



No, I didn't toss away my vote on Gary Johnson, or on Jill Stein, or on Bernie Sanders. I not only voted for Hillary, I canvassed for her on voting day along with a young man who had driven down from the SPLC in Alabama. He knew there was no point in canvassing in Alabama- a very realistic young 21 year old.

I would have been far more enthusiastic if Joe Biden had run, but he gave up his chance to ever be POTUS by not running. I think he regrets it now. And I definitely think he'd have taken Michigan and Ohio because he's always been a big supporter or unions, but that's just a "might have been."
I hope Corey Booker will run in 2020. He looks like he might. I'd be very enthusiastic about him, and he could lure the kids away from their Bernie obsession.

Telstar

Telstar

bigdog wrote:No, I didn't toss away my vote on Gary Johnson, or on Jill Stein, or on Bernie Sanders. I not only voted for Hillary, I canvassed for her on voting day along with a young man who had driven down from the SPLC in Alabama. He knew there was no point in canvassing in Alabama- a very realistic young 21 year old.

I would have been far more enthusiastic if Joe Biden had run, but he gave up his chance to ever be POTUS by not running. I think he regrets it now. And I definitely think he'd have taken Michigan and Ohio because he's always been a big supporter or unions, but that's just a "might have been."
I hope Corey Booker will run in 2020. He looks like he might. I'd be very enthusiastic about him, and he could lure the kids away from their Bernie obsession.





Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 58336e11

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

zsomething wrote:There's always this to consider.


Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 2987025203_fc2c517522_o

And that's old data -- it's worse now.  States like Mississippi and 'Bama, for instance, are taking in around $3 at this point.  If the Republican party truly played by the rules they talk about all the time, most of their states would be sunk.

A lot of the people benefiting from "socialism" have no idea what it even is.   They just hear Hannity talk about it and they repeat it like canaries.   Very few people are promoting flat-out "socialism," anyway... just taking a little from socialism, a little from capitalism, to make something that works best.  "Pure" anything usually fails.

This goes without saying but...generally speaking this shows that the more liberal states are better at self-governing, handling their resources, figuring out how to be viable units of government. Sure there are differences in geographical advantages, natural resources etc. but over the years it is clear that liberal/Democratic ideas produce more benefits. Emphasis on the importance of education, non-regressive taxes, and environmental protections do matter and this proves it...and yet the red states continue to believe apparently against the evidence that they have the answer.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

othershoe1030 wrote:
[color=#0033cc]This goes without saying but...generally speaking this shows that the more liberal states are better at self-governing, ....  

Nah. That's a bogus theory..


What it shows is how the Southern states were economically exploited under the oppressive yoke of the industrialized north for over a hundred years after the War of Northern Aggression and have yet to recover. I like to think of all the Federal funding to States like Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama more in terms of "Reparations"  Laughing  Laughing



Last edited by EmeraldGhost on 9/22/2018, 2:11 pm; edited 2 times in total

PkrBum

PkrBum

EmeraldGhost wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
[color=#0033cc]This goes without saying but...generally speaking this shows that the more liberal states are better at self-governing, ....  

Nah.  What it shows is how the Southern states were economically exploited by the industrialized north for decades after the civil war and have yet to recover .... I like to think of all the Federal funding to States like Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama more in terms of "Reparations"  Laughing  Laughing

It also doesn't account for a state's debt to include interest and unfunded liabilities. It's misleading at best.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

EmeraldGhost wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:
This goes without saying but...generally speaking this shows that the more liberal states are better at self-governing, ....  


Nah.  That's a bogus theory..


What it shows is how the Southern states were economically exploited under the oppressive yoke of the industrialized north for over a hundred years after the War of Northern Aggression and have yet to recover.   I like to think of all the Federal funding to States like Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama more in terms of "Reparations"  Laughing  Laughing



Thanks, I got a good LOL out of that one! So how do you explain all the non-Southern states that are "in the red" and on the receiving end of Federal tax money? States like Kansas, Utah, North and South Dakota, Wyoming etc.?

Deus X

Deus X

47% of Jobs Will Disappear in the next 25 Years, According to Oxford University

The Trump campaign ran on bringing jobs back to American shores, although mechanization has been the biggest reason for manufacturing jobs’ disappearance. Similar losses have led to populist movements in several other countries. But instead of a pro-job growth future, economists across the board predict further losses as AI, robotics, and other technologies continue to be ushered in. What is up for debate is how quickly this is likely to occur.

Now, an expert at the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania is ringing the alarm bells. According to Art Bilger, venture capitalist and board member at the business school, all the developed nations on earth will see job loss rates of up to 47% within the next 25 years, according to a recent Oxford study. “No government is prepared,” The Economist reports. These include blue and white collar jobs. So far, the loss has been restricted to the blue collar variety, particularly in manufacturing.

[...]

One proposed solution is a universal basic income doled out by the government, a sort of baseline one would receive for survival.


https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/47-of-jobs-in-the-next-25-years-will-disappear-according-to-oxford-university



Are You Really into Socialism? - Page 2 ZGD75vn

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

[quote="othershoe1030"]

Thanks, I got a good LOL out of that one! So how do you explain all the non-Southern states that are "in the red" and on the receiving end of Federal tax money? States like Kansas, Utah, North and South Dakota, Wyoming etc.?quote]

Buncha ignorant inbred rednecks?   Lack of racial diversity?   Laughing  Laughing

Does the explanation necessarily have to be the same for each State?

How do you explain the States with the greatest degree of income/wealth inequality? Would the reasons for that necessarily be the same for each?

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