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Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/24/2018, 9:12 pm
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/24/2018, 9:37 pm Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/24/2018, 10:58 pmbigdog wrote: They lock babies up in cages Seaoat.
) Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/24/2018, 11:24 pm Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/24/2018, 11:27 pm Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/24/2018, 11:47 pmbigdog wrote:I like Gary Johnson, but I am a realist. I honestly thought Hillary Clinton had the best chance to win in November.
Last edited by EmeraldGhost on 9/25/2018, 12:13 am; edited 2 times in total
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/24/2018, 11:58 pm
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 12:00 amothershoe1030 wrote: A few things come to mind re Kavanaugh. He was a sheltered well connected boy from a prominent family.
othershoe1030 wrote:He enjoyed the social protection of his class and took total advantage of that. He had no fear of being punished for his outrageous behavior, the heavy drinking and sexual exploitation of girls at the neighboring school.
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 3:09 am
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 7:17 am Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 10:23 amEmeraldGhost wrote:othershoe1030 wrote: A few things come to mind re Kavanaugh. He was a sheltered well connected boy from a prominent family.
Fact.
But the good Dr Blasey Ford was as well. If they were of a lower economic class they could have been from neighboring trailer parks. ... so I don't really see how what you are saying there is relevant.othershoe1030 wrote:He enjoyed the social protection of his class and took total advantage of that. He had no fear of being punished for his outrageous behavior, the heavy drinking and sexual exploitation of girls at the neighboring school.
Speculation.
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 10:31 am Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 10:34 amothershoe1030 wrote:EmeraldGhost wrote:othershoe1030 wrote: A few things come to mind re Kavanaugh. He was a sheltered well connected boy from a prominent family.
Fact.
But the good Dr Blasey Ford was as well. If they were of a lower economic class they could have been from neighboring trailer parks. ... so I don't really see how what you are saying there is relevant.othershoe1030 wrote:He enjoyed the social protection of his class and took total advantage of that. He had no fear of being punished for his outrageous behavior, the heavy drinking and sexual exploitation of girls at the neighboring school.
Speculation.
I don't know how I could have said it any more clearly than I already have. He thought the rules were different for him and had good reason to think that since rich well connected people don't generally get punished for their misdeeds. They are able to hire good lawyers and cajole DA's into "not ruining their career chances with inconveniences such as he is now being accused of. We see this sort of thing being played out when it comes to promising athletes too.
Sure, Dr. Ford's family was in that circle too but SHE WAS A FEMALE so suffered from the cultural climate that tended not to believe women's reports of sexual assault and did not want to go through all the trauma surrounding such reports. I mean, why bother if no one will believe you? Just look at the Anita Hill hearings from 27 years ago. Jane Meyer, the investigative reporter for the New Yorker wrote a book called Strange Justice: The Selling of Clarence Thomas
by Jane Mayer, Jill Abramson which documented the things Anita Hill was saying about Clarence Thomas. Yet Hill was not believed and the investigation that took place before his swearing in was not complete so we didn't know until it was too late what his character was.
I don't get your trailer park reference.
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 1:37 pmgatorfan wrote:othershoe1030 wrote:EmeraldGhost wrote:othershoe1030 wrote: A few things come to mind re Kavanaugh. He was a sheltered well connected boy from a prominent family.
Fact.
But the good Dr Blasey Ford was as well. If they were of a lower economic class they could have been from neighboring trailer parks. ... so I don't really see how what you are saying there is relevant.othershoe1030 wrote:He enjoyed the social protection of his class and took total advantage of that. He had no fear of being punished for his outrageous behavior, the heavy drinking and sexual exploitation of girls at the neighboring school.
Speculation.
I don't know how I could have said it any more clearly than I already have. He thought the rules were different for him and had good reason to think that since rich well connected people don't generally get punished for their misdeeds. They are able to hire good lawyers and cajole DA's into "not ruining their career chances with inconveniences such as he is now being accused of. We see this sort of thing being played out when it comes to promising athletes too.
Sure, Dr. Ford's family was in that circle too but SHE WAS A FEMALE so suffered from the cultural climate that tended not to believe women's reports of sexual assault and did not want to go through all the trauma surrounding such reports. I mean, why bother if no one will believe you? Just look at the Anita Hill hearings from 27 years ago. Jane Meyer, the investigative reporter for the New Yorker wrote a book called Strange Justice: The Selling of Clarence Thomas
by Jane Mayer, Jill Abramson which documented the things Anita Hill was saying about Clarence Thomas. Yet Hill was not believed and the investigation that took place before his swearing in was not complete so we didn't know until it was too late what his character was.
I don't get your trailer park reference.
Why bother now then? Unless (cough, cough) it's strictly a political motive.
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 2:12 pmothershoe1030 wrote:gatorfan wrote:othershoe1030 wrote:EmeraldGhost wrote:othershoe1030 wrote: A few things come to mind re Kavanaugh. He was a sheltered well connected boy from a prominent family.
Fact.
But the good Dr Blasey Ford was as well. If they were of a lower economic class they could have been from neighboring trailer parks. ... so I don't really see how what you are saying there is relevant.othershoe1030 wrote:He enjoyed the social protection of his class and took total advantage of that. He had no fear of being punished for his outrageous behavior, the heavy drinking and sexual exploitation of girls at the neighboring school.
Speculation.
I don't know how I could have said it any more clearly than I already have. He thought the rules were different for him and had good reason to think that since rich well connected people don't generally get punished for their misdeeds. They are able to hire good lawyers and cajole DA's into "not ruining their career chances with inconveniences such as he is now being accused of. We see this sort of thing being played out when it comes to promising athletes too.
Sure, Dr. Ford's family was in that circle too but SHE WAS A FEMALE so suffered from the cultural climate that tended not to believe women's reports of sexual assault and did not want to go through all the trauma surrounding such reports. I mean, why bother if no one will believe you? Just look at the Anita Hill hearings from 27 years ago. Jane Meyer, the investigative reporter for the New Yorker wrote a book called Strange Justice: The Selling of Clarence Thomas
by Jane Mayer, Jill Abramson which documented the things Anita Hill was saying about Clarence Thomas. Yet Hill was not believed and the investigation that took place before his swearing in was not complete so we didn't know until it was too late what his character was.
I don't get your trailer park reference.
Why bother now then? Unless (cough, cough) it's strictly a political motive.
You entirely miss the point: the "why bother" attitude is another impediment to victims coming forward. Why would you want to embarrass yourself and your family in the nearly useless reporting of a sexual assault if nothing will come of it? If the perp gets no punishment and the victim is abused, belittled and discredited then it is truly an exercise in futility.
The male dominated culture that both men and women have allowed to continue up until now is the reason victims have not generally come forward with complaints, not because the complaints weren't true but because complaining was nearly useless. Just look at how little has changed since the Anita Hill hearings and you can see the entrenchment these attitudes hold in our culture.
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 2:16 pm Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 2:41 pm2seaoat wrote:Just look at how little has changed since the Anita Hill hearings and you can see the entrenchment these attitudes hold in our culture.
I feel comparing this to the Anita Hill hearing is a faulty comparison. Judge Thomas harassed Anita Hill while being a sitting judge. His conduct was relevant and she was treated badly during the confirmation Hearing. Here we are talking about allegations almost forty years old while the nominee was a 17 year old kid and the attempts to narrow any inquiry into the irrelevant is not showing disrespect to Dr. Ford. However, she does not dictate how the confirmation hearing will be conducted.......again elections matter and the Republicans will decide who will testify and who will ask the questions. The part that amazes me that folks think this guy is a bad jurist, and I think he will follow the independence that Justice Roberts showed in the Affordable care act being found constitutional. However, my biggest fear is that most humans going through this unnecessary and crass political circus would be angry. Thomas has been a bitter and most conservative justice on the court......history will repeat itself, and it was all so unnecessary.
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 3:18 pmgatorfan wrote:.... So, who is lying or are both of them? ....
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 3:27 pmEmeraldGhost wrote:bigdog wrote:I like Gary Johnson, but I am a realist. I honestly thought Hillary Clinton had the best chance to win in November.
Given the two (in my view) unpalatable choices the major parties presented us with ... I voted for the candidate who seemed a genuinely good guy as well as being well qualified for the job and having a track record I could look at. Call it a protest vote. Call me an idealist. Call me a hippie. Call it whatever you want. I don't care. I sleep well. I have no regrets. Did I agree with GJ 100% on everything ... no. Did I think he'd win? No. But I still think things like character and experience matter and I think it's important in the grand scheme of things that people vote their conscience regardless of the outcome. Your views on that may differ.
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 5:57 pm Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 6:03 pmbigdog wrote: ....
___________My problem with all of that is that ....
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/25/2018, 7:57 pmEmeraldGhost wrote:bigdog wrote: ....
___________My problem with all of that is that ....
Oh, you don't have to defend yourself to me.
Recognize though that the fundamental difference between you and I is that, while we may have similar opinions as to Donald Trump, we don't share the same view of Hillary Clinton.
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/26/2018, 8:16 amEmeraldGhost wrote:gatorfan wrote:.... So, who is lying or are both of them? ....
I will not be surprised if it turns out to be both. I further will not be surprised if we never find that out for sure.
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/26/2018, 9:14 amPkrBum wrote:EmeraldGhost wrote:gatorfan wrote:.... So, who is lying or are both of them? ....
I will not be surprised if it turns out to be both. I further will not be surprised if we never find that out for sure.
It's not a provable accusation. It's not even up to the standard of pointing out a witch. Full of holes.
Re: Is it fair to be bringing up a high school alleged incident forty years later in confirmation hearings? 9/26/2018, 9:34 amEmeraldGhost wrote:PkrBum wrote:EmeraldGhost wrote:gatorfan wrote:.... So, who is lying or are both of them? ....
I will not be surprised if it turns out to be both. I further will not be surprised if we never find that out for sure.
It's not a provable accusation. It's not even up to the standard of pointing out a witch. Full of holes.
So maybe the Senate should have tie them both up and have 'em thrown in the Potomac and see which one sinks and which one floats. Then hang the one that floats. Throw Mark Judge, the Ramirez woman, that Avenatti lawyer, and Donald Trump in too for good measure!! If it's a witch hunt as Trump says .... well, that's a time-honored way of proving he's not a witch.
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