Pensacola Discussion Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

This is a forum based out of Pensacola Florida.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Trump's HHS Secretary Has A Plan to Replace the ACA ...

+2
RealLindaL
Sal
6 posters

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Sal

Sal

... and it is predictably horrible ...

His name is Tom Price, a Republican member of Congress from Georgia, and the fact that he's a "fierce" critic of Obamacare doesn't really faze me. He's a Republican, after all. Anyone Trump picked would be a fierce critic of Obamacare.

However, there is something different about Price: he actually has a replacement plan. Not a white paper, but actual legislation. Sarah Kliff runs down Price's plan here, but I want to pull back from the details and focus on the bigger picture instead.

You've probably heard a million times that Obamacare relies on a three-legged stool. If you want universal coverage, you have to require insurers to cover everyone, even those with pre-existing conditions. That's guaranteed issue. But that will wreck the insurance pool: it will have too many sick people, who will rush to buy coverage, and not enough healthy people. So you also need to provide an incentive for healthy people to join your plan. In Obamacare, that's the tax penalty for going without insurance. Finally, once you've done that, you have to provide financial help for the poor, since they can't afford full-price coverage no matter how much incentive you give them. In Obamacare, that's the subsidies.

This is not just an Obamacare thing. It's true of all health insurance. Take the employer market that most of us are familiar with. Everyone who works for a company that offers health coverage gets it. That's guaranteed issue. It's pretty cheap and the price is deducted painlessly from your paycheck. That's an incentive for everyone to join. And the company provides the insurance either free or at a very discounted price. That's the equivalent of Obamacare's subsidies.

So how does Price's plan work? He mandates that insurance companies cover even those with pre-existing conditions. That's guaranteed issue. However, insurers are only required to take you on if you maintain continuous coverage. That's a huge incentive for healthy people to buy insurance, since if you skip it for a year you might not be able to get coverage if you get sick. Finally, he offers tax credits based on age to everyone, and a high-risk pool for those who still can't afford insurance. That's very similar to Obamacare's subsidies.

So what's the problem? Why shouldn't Democrats ditch Obamacare and accept Price's substitute? Or to flip things around, why should Republicans bother with this? If they're just going to get a different version of Obamacare from Price, why not skip the whole thing?

Partly, the answer is in the details. There are lots of moving parts beyond the three-legged stool, and Price's plan has different details than Obamacare. But mainly, the answer is money. Obamacare works because it's reasonably well funded, to the tune of about a trillion dollars over ten years. Price's plan might very well work too if it were funded at the same level.

But it's not. The CBO has never scored Price's plan, but even a quick glance tells you that its funding level is a small fraction of Obamacare's. And as we all know, perhaps the biggest problem with Obamacare is that it's already underfunded. There are lots of people who struggle to afford insurance even with the subsidies, and plenty more who don't qualify for subsidies at all. And deductibles are often so high that they make the insurance close to worthless anyway.

Price's plan is far stingier. He offers tax credits based on age: about $100 per month for young adults, rising to $250 per month for older adults. Since insurance worth the name costs far more than that, it will be wildly unaffordable to anyone who's not middle class or better.

But it gets worse. Since Price offers credits based on age, it means that the well-off all get tax credits. Many of the poor, who can't afford insurance even with the tax credits, will go uninsured and therefore get nothing. In other words, his plan is basically a way of subsidizing the rich and screwing the poor. What's more, since it costs a lot less than Obamacare, it opens up budget room to enact Paul Ryan's big tax cuts for the rich.

This is unsurprising, of course. Tax cuts for the rich and benefit cuts for the poor is what Republicans do.1 The main reason for repealing Obamacare is to reduce spending so that Republicans can cut taxes, which means that any plan that costs as much as Obamacare doesn't really do them any good. They have no choice but to accept the three-legged stool, but they can fund it so pitifully that it doesn't do anybody much good.


http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/11/republican-plan-replace-obamacare-lite

RealLindaL



Will of course have to reserve judgment pending eventual actual developments, but this is a very interesting analysis as a start. Ppaca, what do you think?

Maybe Mitt Romney should weigh in. LOL

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

One thing about Trump is you never know what he's going to do next or on which side of an issue he stands. He may be putting Price in as window dressing to satisfy the hair on fire types that love voting to repeal the ACA and then in the long term do nothing or very little.

Who knows? Another day, another tweet.

Guest


Guest

Unless the mandate goes... it's not a serious repeal.

2seaoat



A great many blue collar folks who have seen incredible benefit from the ACA, voted for Donald Trump. A great many people who finally had a safety net of health insurance for their families did not even bother to vote. Probably out of the twenty million people under the umbrella of the ACA, more than half did not vote, or voted for Trump. I am sorry. You cannot fix stupid. Of course tax credits do little for poor people. Of course tax credits benefit rich people who get dollar for dollar reduction of their tax obligation, and of course the tax rates on the wealthy will be reduced, but at least those folks who in the next few years will be desperate will have the arrogance that they are better than Mexicans, Muslims, and blacks.......yep.....you just cannot handicap stupidity, and why bother to think that anybody but the rich will be served by this administration, any more than those folks who paid tuition at Trump University should have expected anything different than what happened.

However, when the truth is discussed about legislative change, it will not be a simple process to screw twenty million Americans. There will be consequences as early as 2018.

2seaoat



Unless the mandate goes... it's not a serious repeal.


Your reading comprehension is slipping. The mandate will be gone under the proposal. They will cut billions out of the subsidies, and offer a carrot in the form of tax credits. People will be getting tax credits which is great if you are making 76k a year, but not so great when you are making only 22k a year and already are getting the earned tax credit of the lowest earners in America. A pure sham to pull insurance from poor people who need this coverage the most, and a total benefit with tax credits for higher income people such as they will actually have real savings in their tax returns, while poor people go into a living hell, which if they do not keep continuous coverage, will lose that coverage. Having to deal with poor people who cannot even pay their utilities, I can tell you the health insurance premium will be the first to go, and if tragedy strikes that family in that year......SOL.

Meanwhile, if the tax plan Trump promised is implemented, five trillion more debt as the tax rates on the richest Americans drop as more than half this nation falls into insufferable poverty. It is your show PK. This is what you begged for eight years. Own it.

dumpcare



RealLindaL wrote:Will of course have to reserve judgment pending eventual actual developments, but this is a very interesting analysis as a start.  Ppaca, what do you think?

Maybe Mitt Romney should weigh in.   LOL

Sounded like a great idea for a couple paragraphs then you get to the point where it won't work or a republican congressman or senator will not be elected again in their districts. Hell just my client alone makeup is about 99% republican and very highly subsidized. Did one today that received almost $1300 per month subsidy. They voted for Trump and don't want to see it changed.

I would like to see (if they insist on no prex) a waiting period of 12 months for the pre x to be treated. Too many drop their plans after receiving any treatments and then pick it up the next year during open enrollment. The mandate does need to stay to make even this plan to work. The premium's may never go down on any solution.

The article never mention getting rid of the navigator's and bringing the agent back into this 100%. Obamacare hurt everyone who sells health insurance. A very large percentage quit selling health policy's this year and some are charging just to sit down and talk with them. Very few get paid a % of premium anymore, it's usually a fee and under $70.00 per application for some, then the people drop it and the agent has to pay back the commission. If I am still in this next year may charge a fee, Florida now allows it for under 65 products. If Trump gets rid of navigator's then only agents could help people.

Just have to wait to see how this pans out in the highly subsidized republican states.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:Unless the mandate goes... it's not a serious repeal.


Your reading comprehension is slipping.  The mandate will be gone under the proposal.   They will cut billions out of the subsidies, and offer a carrot in the form of tax credits.  People will be getting tax credits which is great if you are making 76k a year, but not so great when you are making only 22k a year and already are getting the earned tax credit of the lowest earners in America.  A pure sham to pull insurance from poor people who need this coverage the most, and a total benefit with tax credits for higher income people such as they will actually have real savings in their tax returns, while poor people go into a living hell, which if they do not keep continuous coverage, will lose that coverage.  Having to deal with poor people who cannot even pay their utilities, I can tell you the health insurance premium will be the first to go, and if tragedy strikes that family in that year......SOL.

Meanwhile, if the tax plan Trump promised is implemented, five trillion more debt as the tax rates on the richest Americans drop as more than half this nation falls into insufferable poverty.  It is your show PK.  This is what you begged for eight years.  Own it.

Healthcare is a service... not some magical human right. And...what's being said now is fluid.

2seaoat



Healthcare is a service... not some magical human right. And...what's being said now is fluid.


I agree that it is fluid, what I cannot and never will agree with is that a society as wealthy as America can have seniors crying in a waiting room because they cannot pay for medical treatment. I hope you never have to see what I have seen over the last eight years, but I take the words in the constitution to heart and Congress looking out for the general welfare of its citizens can be done well, or it can be done poorly, and I choose quality for every American citizen in regard to health care. Benign neglect is not an option. I have to agree with the most knowledgeable person on this forum in regard to health insurance, taking away the subsidy is not going to be something that can happen cold turkey, but will be phased in which is a direct contradiction of campaign promises. It is going to be a hoot to watch all the easy answers not being that easy to implement. Good government is hard work.

dumpcare



http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/obamacare-republicans-repeal-replace-232025

Congressional Republicans are setting up their own, self-imposed deadline to make good on their vow to replace the Affordable Care Act. With buy-in from Donald Trump’s transition team, GOP leaders on both sides of the Capitol are coalescing around a plan to vote to repeal the law in early 2017 — but delay the effective date for that repeal for as long as three years.

They’re crossing their fingers that the delay will help them get their own house in order, as well as pressure a handful of Senate Democrats — who would likely be needed to pass replacement legislation — to come onboard before the clock runs out and 20 million Americans lose their health insurance. The idea is to satisfy conservative critics who want President Barack Obama’s signature initiative gone now, but reassure Americans that Republicans won’t upend the entire health care system without a viable alternative that preserves the law’s popular provisions.

“We’re talking about a three-year transition now that we actually have a president who’s likely to sign the repeal into the law. People are being, understandably cautious, to make sure nobody’s dropped through the cracks,” said Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-Texas).

The tentative strategy is reminiscent of Capitol Hill’s infamous “fiscal cliff” days, when Congress imposed simultaneous deadlines to raise the debt ceiling, extend expiring tax cuts and fund the government. The hope was that it would create irresistible political pressure to get behind a bipartisan mega-fiscal deal.

This time , however, it’s access to health care for tens of millions of people that’s on the line.

“I think once it’s repealed, you will have hopefully fewer people playing politics and [instead] coming together to try to find the best policy,” House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said Tuesday. He added that when there is “a date certain that something’s going away … you know you have to have something done.”

dumpcare



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obamacare-repeal-poll_us_583f3b6fe4b017f37fe2607f

Poll: Only One-Fourth Of Americans Actually Want Full Obamacare Repeal

Guest


Guest

Hasn't he already conceded some features that should be kept? Why ignore that?

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:Hasn't he already conceded some features that should be kept? Why ignore that?

Actually, the idea that's being floated now is to pass a full repeal in early 2017, but delay any action for three years while they try to figure out what's next ...

... because they're Republicans, and that's how they roll.

dumpcare



Sal wrote:
PkrBum wrote:Hasn't he already conceded some features that should be kept? Why ignore that?

Actually, the idea that's being floated now is to pass a full repeal in early 2017, but delay any action for three years while they try to figure out what's next ...

... because they're Republicans, and that's how they roll.

Lamar Alexander R-Tn probably will not go along with that, he agrees that is a stupid idea and they should actually come up with a plan first and put in place then repeal. Although they're are talking about defunding it early next year. Who knows.

Vikingwoman



PkrBum wrote:
2seaoat wrote:Unless the mandate goes... it's not a serious repeal.


Your reading comprehension is slipping.  The mandate will be gone under the proposal.   They will cut billions out of the subsidies, and offer a carrot in the form of tax credits.  People will be getting tax credits which is great if you are making 76k a year, but not so great when you are making only 22k a year and already are getting the earned tax credit of the lowest earners in America.  A pure sham to pull insurance from poor people who need this coverage the most, and a total benefit with tax credits for higher income people such as they will actually have real savings in their tax returns, while poor people go into a living hell, which if they do not keep continuous coverage, will lose that coverage.  Having to deal with poor people who cannot even pay their utilities, I can tell you the health insurance premium will be the first to go, and if tragedy strikes that family in that year......SOL.

Meanwhile, if the tax plan Trump promised is implemented, five trillion more debt as the tax rates on the richest Americans drop as more than half this nation falls into insufferable poverty.  It is your show PK.  This is what you begged for eight years.  Own it.

Healthcare is a service... not some magical human right. And...what's being said now is fluid.

People like you are what's wrong w/ this country. Healthcare is a basic human need that all other civilized countries recognize. What ever happened to you that you are devoid of humanity?

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum