Escambia County Will Not Enforce its New 'Leave No Trace' Ordinance on Pensacola Beach During Memorial Day Weekend

LGBT weekend granted beach exemption
http://www.pnj.com/search/LGBT%20weekend%20granted%20beach%20law%20exemption%20/

I guess the authorities will be like Nazis to everyone else during the rest of the summer beach season....

Why have an ordinance if it will not apply to all?

Because..........like Panama City cracking down on drinking on the beach.....there are consequences, and when the folks who make money on the beach get skunked......well policy is questioned.

Nope oat, the ordinance needs to apply to all regardless of dollars.

Seagoat's idea of equality is tainted by politics and white guilt. His bias believes certain people can't prosper w/o political exceptions and social entitlements carved out by a central authoritarian govt. It's sad really... it harms rather than helps.

The so called libertarian lecturing Seaoat as to how more regulations are needed on the beach. I remember camping in California when a park ranger came into our campsite and spent five minutes telling us what we could not do.....we just laughed at him because we were not breaking any rules and were camping to get back in touch with nature, not man made regulations.....I guess PK is confused.......you go to the beach and enjoy a beer and pick up and leave it cleaner than when you arrived, but hey.....I love that you want more regulation, and the comrade is telling you to stick your regulations and leave me alone on the beach.

I have written for years about Panama City and the alcohol abuse, but what they did this past year was over kill and they are beginning to see that government can be quite stupid.

I have zero white guilt.......I just want a fair game, and when it is not being played fairly......I have no problem calling the game for what it is. Hey Pk....can I get your permission to take a taco out to the beach? Libertarian.....I shared office space with the guy who ran for libertarian governor in Illinois, and sir....you are about as far from being a libertarian as your Detroit Lions are from the Super Bowl.

Lol... another straw man. Littering is littering is littering... it causes harm.

How about ONE set of rules... no carving out exceptions and favors for political quid pro quo? Radical... I know.

littering has been a crime on the beach since the fifties. Why the need for new rules?

Dumbest fucking decision anyone could ever make.  All this does is give ammunition to the homophobes on WEBY to rant about the "homosexual agenda taking away the rights of Christians".
Everybody,  be they homo,  hetero,  republican,  democrat,  old,  young, black or white, should clean up the fucking beach before they leave it.  It shouldn't have a goddamn thing to do with how much or how little money they spend.
And any politician who says different is not fit for office.

Why was there a need for a NEW ordinance?

Oat, there was a need because of the pigs that visit our beaches would leave not just their trash, but broken beach chairs and umbrella's you name it they left it. Absolutely no respect for others. The ordinance is for everyone and it should not be waived for a group because they bring million's of dollars to the area. You should see pics after heavy weekend traffic out there and this includes the blue angels show.

He'd bend over backwards and kiss his own ass if the leftists labeled it a special interest.

Man, that's gotta hurt.

2seaoat wrote:The so called libertarian lecturing Seaoat as to how more regulations are needed on the beach.  I remember camping in California when a park ranger came into our campsite and spent five minutes telling us what we could not do.....we just laughed at him because we were not breaking any rules and were camping to get back in touch with nature, not man made regulations.....I guess PK is confused.......you go to the beach and enjoy a beer and pick up and leave it cleaner than when you arrived, but hey.....I love that you want more regulation, and the comrade is telling you to stick your regulations and leave me alone on the beach.

I have written for years about Panama City and the alcohol abuse, but what they did this past year was over kill and they are beginning to see that government can be quite stupid.

There is a need for an ordinance to keep people from littering the beach with their trash...we don't need exceptions for Memorial Day weekend or any other occasion...clean up your trash...period...or pay a hefty fine. I have thrown empty cans at people who were leaving without making any attempt to pick up after themselves...or at least in their general direction, with expletives...not that they cared even then. As for drinking at Pensacola Beach, there's another new ordinance...no drinking except for on the sand...a "pilot program" that's supposed to be over at summer's end. This alcohol ban has been pushed for years by beach businesses wanting the public to buy from them instead of bring their own food and drink...ostensibly this is to prevent PB from turning into a spring break haven...as happened to Panama City Beach...and there's apparently some justification because of bad behavior and drunkenness at the Boardwalk (where I rarely go)...but bottom line it's the beach vendors wanting more sales. Seaoat is right...we have laws to prevent littering...ppaca is right...the laws need to apply uniformly.

PkrBum wrote:He'd bend over backwards and kiss his own ass if the leftists labeled it a special interest.

Why do you have to be such a nasty little p****?

How about let's look at this with some common sense, OK?   First of all, this LGBT gathering has been going on here for decades.  There have been special permits and exceptions given in the past when applied for, such as for camping out on the beach.  (Aside:  this article doesn't mention whether the 'camping' exception was granted this year or not, but I doubt there are as many folks staying out there overnight as in the past, for the simple reason that the big overnight parties are no longer held out there, but are scattered in various venues on the beach and in town.)  

Look, I'm all in favor of the Leave No Trace ordinance, having seen too many vacationers just walk away at the end of their stay and not have the common decency to even take down their tent poles-- they just leave them, sometimes along with coolers and other crap, until the junk either washes into the sea with the tide or until finally a county employee decides the people aren't coming back, and disposes of it.  Meanwhile the crapola hinders turtle nesting and is an eyesore for the next people coming down to enjoy the beauty of our beaches.

BUT, in the case of this long-standing, VERY large, very concentrated gathering, which already ties up traffic on the east end in a huge way, to require these visitors -- who, after all, do not  have a rental  house with dunes right behind their encampment where they can drag stuff to overnight-- to require them to take down and remove their tents/canopies etc. each night and somehow get them all the way to their off-site hotels or condos, often off the island (and where, even then, are they supposed to stow them??) and return them the next day, would be totally impractical and unreasonable, not to mention even more disruptive of other traffic using the east end (e.g., Portofino or adjacent development residents/renters, or people wanting to drive 399 to and from Navarre Beach).  

And then there are the many, many attendees who help keep the traffic/parking problem down by taking a taxi to and from the gathering area.  Not practical to ask them to take all their stuff back and forth in taxis for two or three days.

Don't get me wrong; I do feel that they should all at least be required to dump their stuff in dumpsters when they leave for good, if they aren't taking it with them.   That should partly be a function of education (signs? social media? whatever) and partly finding a way to spot the dumpsters on site ahead of time (not sure why/if this is not done -- maybe space? Maybe aesthetics for the visitors?  Maybe tying up the equipment for several extra days? Dunno.  Speculating).  

And of course it should also be common decency when it comes to cleaning up after oneself.  But the LGBT community has no patent on generational lack of decency.  Just look to our own county day trippers if you want to see who leaves most of the crap on our beaches day in and day out.

Ten years ago if a person left an umbrella or a six pack of cans on the beach, they could be cited for littering. The same is true today. New laws....new regulations......is there no place left where a human can connect with nature without being lectured on rules? I have to clean up after pigs all the time. I hate litter, but I hate more feel good regulations, ordinances and statutes, with do gooders trying to save the world, but having just the opposite impact on the quality of our lives. Freedom comes at a price. Why not let the folks at Escambia jail have a beach day once a week. Let the folks regularly clean up the beach after every weekend. I know if I was spending six months in jail, I would love an opportunity to go pick up some trash and smell the fresh air and Gulf breeze. However, instead we are going to just make a day at the beach a classroom with some dumb asz teacher critiquing the students performance.....

2seaoat wrote:instead we are going to just make a day at the beach a classroom with some dumb asz teacher critiquing the students performance.....

And exactly where, O Mr. Knows All, do you get the information that anyone is going to be lecturing anyone?  Nope.   The ordinance simply says we're going to post signs at public accessways (which has already been done) telling you to take your stuff off the beach between sunset and sunrise or it becomes the property of Escambia County, which shall be free to dispose of it.  The ordinance further provides for enforcement as a public nuisance in accordance with other county ordinances; I didn't look at that but can guess that, just as with Navarre Beach's Leave No Trace ordinance (enacted, I believe, about three years back), there are fines for continued offenses.  

Here's the entire ordinance (and you'll note it specifically makes provision for exceptions/permits for, among other things, guess what? -- special events):

http://agenda.myescambia.com/docs/2015/REGBCC/20150806_1412/8619_Ordinance.pdf

Any "lecturing" was done a couple of years back by a volunteer group of "beach ambassadors" who spent a summer or two patrolling Pensacola beach, trying to gently talk visitors into clearing off their stuff at sunset, and/or leaving explanatory tags attached to their tents if they weren't present at the time.  Well, it didn't work.   Some people even got nasty with the ambassadors.  Hence the ordinance, and I say about daggoned time.

My daughter and her husband would get up at 6am to put a canopy ten foot by ten foot beach tent as my daughter has Lupus and the direct sun is not good for her health, but she wants to enjoy the joy of her daughters enjoying the beach from the shade. At least three times somebody had come up to them to complain about how early they had put out their canopy or threaten them about leaving the tent up as they were enjoying the same near sunset. Gestapo and quite offensive people more concerned in restricting people's freedom than using any common sense. People will leave stuff on the beach. If there is a sudden thunderstorm and lightening people go back into the condos and sometimes cannot get to it until the next morning. Sure there are dead beats, but my experience of forty years on Navarre Beach is that it is the exception, and it is just a trend that people want to restrict the use of the beach and want zero tolerance which is simply insane and contrary to the idea of the freedom the beach represents where the raw power of nature is observed. Some people need to take a chill pill and utilize some folks to keep the beaches clean. I am not making excuses for slobs, but the crush of regulation for the 10% who abuse the freedom, results in the other 90% being put into a straight jacket on the beach......

I can't speak for Navarre Beach, but I can state unequivocally that Pensacola Beach is nowhere near the same as it was 15 years ago, much less, I suppose, 40 years ago, though I wasn't here then.  Things have markedly changed, not necessarily for the better, as visitation has drastically increased.  

As for junksters being a rare exception, again, I can't speak for NB, but I certainly can for PB as I'm on or by the beach most every day (are you??)  and, as also witnessed by the photos that were published prior to the PB ordinance's enactment, I can personally attest to the fact that people leaving junk -- and not just tent poles but chairs, coolers, toys, whatever else they don't feel like lugging back behind the dune line overnight or when they depart for home -- is no longer a rare occurrence at all.  

There's no doubt that being required to do all this taking down and putting up and lugging back and forth is a royal pain in the patoot for vacationers, and if we were still seeing pre-BP visitation rates, it might not have become the problem it is, not only for beach aesthetics but for the rare and endangered sea turtles we're privileged to still have nesting on our shores.

But it IS a problem, and if it weren't, there wouldn't be a need for a cure.  For you to take it as far as you have to say that "people want to restrict the use of the beach" is pure paranoid B.S. at best.  What people??   There is no evidence of that's being anyone's motivation, sea.  It's certainly not mine or my neighbors' and friends', and it's most certainly not that of our local officials -- the same people who drafted and passed the ordinance -- who love nothing more than bigger and bigger tourism numbers every year, even when our roadway infrastructure can no longer support them.  So think again on that one, my friend.    

I'm sorry to hear your daughter has Lupus, sea.  My husband has a related auto-immune syndrome so I have some idea just how difficult it can be to live with.  I wish her the best.

Go read the Gestapo Navarre Forum where constantly judgmental people are trying to restrict and read the threads and then tell me about those folks do not exist.......read the person they call Pensacola Kid and see what he and Kenny have been saying over the years and tell me that people were not asked to leave that forum when they had contrary opinions about certain folks vision of what Navarre Beach should be.......sorry I was appalled at what Navarre Beach became and would NEVER go back there to any structure, but only enjoy the east end where the territorial residents are not trying to scare off what they perceive is riff raff. I just have a different opinion of the world than the Pensacola Kid and Kenny, but their opinions are out there for anybody to read, and their political views match in my opinion the way they want the beach to be....

I understand exactly what you're saying about that forum as I used to read it until I could no longer stand it. Those people are jerks and I certainly hope not representative of the average Navarre Beacher. But again, I can't speak for your beach, only for mine. People here are largely welcoming -- but there's a limit to what will be put up with.

RealLindaL wrote:to require them to take down and remove their tents/canopies etc. each night

Okay this puts the whole thing in a different light.  I was not aware the ordinance would have required these campers to remove their campsites EACH night during the 3 day event.  I assumed we were talking ONLY about removing the junk at the end of the event or before they left for good if they left earlier.
If what you say is true,  and without this exemption they would have been forced to remove everything each night then that is about the dumbest ordinance that bunch of hillbillies on the Board of Commissioners has ever come up with.  And those bozos have really come up with some serious bullshit in my lifetime.

Bob wrote:

RealLindaL wrote:to require them to take down and remove their tents/canopies etc. each night

Okay this puts the whole thing in a different light.  I was not aware the ordinance would have required these campers to remove their campsites EACH night during the 3 day event.  I assumed we were talking ONLY about removing the junk at the end of the event or before they left for good if they left earlier.
If what you say is true,  and without this exemption they would have been forced to remove everything each night then that is about the dumbest ordinance that bunch of hillbillies on the Board of Commissioners has ever come up with.  And those bozos have really come up with some serious bullshit in my lifetime.

To verify that what I'm saying is "true," please just refer to the ordinance itself (link provided above), which also explains the rationale for its existence.  It's pretty easy to read and understand, whether or not one agrees with it.   I should clarify that, by the ordinance, they wouldn't necessarily have to actually take the stuff off island, but it virtually amounts to that since they wouldn't have any place to stow it out where they gather in and near Park East.

This ordinance is modeled after similar ones in place on other beaches (not just Navarre Beach) -- Walton, Gulf and Franklin Counties, to name a few -- and is not specifically designed to target multi-day special events like the LGBT gathering (for which permitted exemption is possible), but rather the day-to-day beach visitor/vacationer/resident/renter, who is definitely required to remove everything each night.   Wasn't sure you were clear on that.

Well I just did what you said and read the ordinance, Linda.

As with many laws, the actual wording of it is often contradictory and confusing. Because you will notice that the first paragraph of it defines the spirit of the law...

"prohibiting and regulating obstructions and personal property abandoned on beaches..."

the key word being "abandoned" on beaches.

The queers are definitely and positively not "abandoning" property on the beach EACH NIGHT. So it would make no sense to apply this ordinance to anything except when property IS actually being abandoned. And that would happen ONLY when the queers are finally leaving the beach to return home. And if they leave their shit on the beach then, the ordinance should be enforced and the queers should have the book thrown at them.
But to give the queers or anyone a permit to camp on the beach for three nights, and then to tell them they have to remove their property EVERY NIGHT during this time, would be as I said, about the dumbest goddamn thing anyone could ever do. Period.