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all 1.6 BILLION Muslims

RealLindaL wrote:

PkrBum wrote:It sickens me when y'all work so hard to tolerate theocratic autocrats that reek of intolerance  and the dark ages./quote]

This statement is so wrong on so many levels that I hardly know where to begin.  It just about knocked the breath out of me this morning, such that I had to take some time to be able to offer a reasonably level-headed response.

Listen Pkr, I am beyond positive that NO ONE HERE condones the worst aspects of some Islamic societies and/or sects such as you cite.  I, for one, certainly never said or even indicated that I tolerate, condone, support, approve, or whatever verb you wish to pick, ANY of the intolerance or worse horrors certain Islamic societies inflict on their people, including especially women.  Give me a friggin' break.  

But what Trump said this week is that "Islam hates us."  Period.  (The religion hates us? That's stupid enough before we even begin.)  And last night he was asked, is he saying that

all 1.6 BILLION Muslims

hate the U.S.?? You could almost see that he wanted to reply yes, but even he knew that was an outrageous claim, so he simply said,  "A LOT of them, believe me, a LOT of them."  

He then continued with his typical paranoid scare talk, saying (paraphrasing) that "There are things going on that you probably don't know about and that many other people probably don't know about," implying that there's some vast Islamic conspiracy against us or something, which he has knowledge of (but isn't sharing??!!) -- I don't know.  He and Sheriff Arpaio could have a wonderful paranoid fantasy fest together.

Listen, if we are going to condemn entire religions and all their people as haters, how is that American??  Islam is part of the fabric of our own nation whether you like it or not.  "It is what it is."  And what it is NOT is part of our heritage to paint all 1.6 billion followers of a religion with such a broad negative brush.  How are they all supposed to feel about the U.S. -- in some cases their own home country -- after hearing that??

Anyone who doesn't realize that such a position on the part of a major U.S. political figure is only going to make the world more dangerous for our people has rocks in his/her head and no business running for president.   Rubio was absolutely right to call Trump out on that last night.  RUBIO!  NOT a flaming liberal, for Pete's sake!!!  Did you even listen to debate, Pkr, or are you just talking off the top of your head?  You should've seen it.  Rubio was 100% right on the money.  He reminded Trump and the audience that we need the good will of the moderate Muslim nations who can and must help us rid the world of the Islamic extremists.  He reminded us that there are Americans working (and some American Christians missioning) abroad who are endangered by such talk.  He reminded us that there are Muslims in our own armed forces who love our country and are willing to die for America!!!  How are THEY supposed to feel when they hear this type of thoughtless, hurtful, damaging rhetoric from a presidential candidate???  

It renders me virtually speechless to even contemplate.  

Now at the risk of getting dumped on for offering anything from the AP, I'm going to copy here just one part of their debate fact check article regarding last night, as it relates to this issue alone, and ONLY, I repeat, ONLY because it reminds the rabid anti-Islamists in this country (such as clueless  hate-mongerTrump) that this is a big world and there are a lot of functioning Islamic societies in it, not just the extremist groups and not just those operating under the most heinous aspects of Sharia Law.  

So pick this apart if you must; I'm not offering it as 100% truth, but ONLY (remember, please) as a reminder that we are citizens of a much bigger world than small-minded Donald Trump imagines, that we have to function in it, and that we need and want the friendship of moderate Muslim societies -- whether or not they are perfect in our eyes -- NOT an end that's likely to be accomplished by having Trump at the helm spewing his venomous bigotry and paranoia.  

And yes, yes, I realize that there are much worse atrocities than are cited in the AP piece below.  IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING I SAID ABOVE. It does NOT give us an excuse to turn our backs on who we are as a nation.   WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT, AND WE ARE BETTER THAN DONALD TRUMP, by a long, long shot.  Heaven help me if I'm wrong.

From the AP:

TRUMP: "Islam treats women horribly."

THE FACTS: No such generalization is supported by the diverse circumstances for women in the Muslim world. The United States has yet to see a woman as president, many years after Muslim women achieved national leadership in other countries, most prominently Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto back in the late 1980s and in the 1990s.

Some Muslim societies are indeed repressive by Western standards, enforcing or pressing for norms such as clothing that covers all but their eyes or faces; bans on driving, voting and education; and restrictions on interacting with the other sex. But many Muslim women adhere to Islamic norms not out of fear or repression, but in observance of faith and their own preference.

In almost all countries with majority Muslim populations, women set their own dress codes, graduate from universities, interact with men, work as Western women do, hold senior government posts and take part in competitive sports.

Link:   http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2016-03-11/ap-fact-check-bruised-realities-in-gop-debate

RealLindaL wrote:

RealLindaL wrote:

PkrBum wrote:It sickens me when y'all work so hard to tolerate theocratic autocrats that reek of intolerance  and the dark ages./quote]

This statement is so wrong on so many levels that I hardly know where to begin.  It just about knocked the breath out of me this morning, such that I had to take some time to be able to offer a reasonably level-headed response.

Listen Pkr, I am beyond positive that NO ONE HERE condones the worst aspects of some Islamic societies and/or sects such as you cite.  I, for one, certainly never said or even indicated that I tolerate, condone, support, approve, or whatever verb you wish to pick, ANY of the intolerance or worse horrors certain Islamic societies inflict on their people, including especially women.  Give me a friggin' break.  

But what Trump said this week is that "Islam hates us."  Period.  (The religion hates us? That's stupid enough before we even begin.)  And last night he was asked, is he saying that

all 1.6 BILLION Muslims

hate the U.S.?? You could almost see that he wanted to reply yes, but even he knew that was an outrageous claim, so he simply said,  "A LOT of them, believe me, a LOT of them."  

He then continued with his typical paranoid scare talk, saying (paraphrasing) that "There are things going on that you probably don't know about and that many other people probably don't know about," implying that there's some vast Islamic conspiracy against us or something, which he has knowledge of (but isn't sharing??!!) -- I don't know.  He and Sheriff Arpaio could have a wonderful paranoid fantasy fest together.

Listen, if we are going to condemn entire religions and all their people as haters, how is that American??  Islam is part of the fabric of our own nation whether you like it or not.  "It is what it is."  And what it is NOT is part of our heritage to paint all 1.6 billion followers of a religion with such a broad negative brush.  How are they all supposed to feel about the U.S. -- in some cases their own home country -- after hearing that??

Anyone who doesn't realize that such a position on the part of a major U.S. political figure is only going to make the world more dangerous for our people has rocks in his/her head and no business running for president.   Rubio was absolutely right to call Trump out on that last night.  RUBIO!  NOT a flaming liberal, for Pete's sake!!!  Did you even listen to debate, Pkr, or are you just talking off the top of your head?  You should've seen it.  Rubio was 100% right on the money.  He reminded Trump and the audience that we need the good will of the moderate Muslim nations who can and must help us rid the world of the Islamic extremists.  He reminded us that there are Americans working (and some American Christians missioning) abroad who are endangered by such talk.  He reminded us that there are Muslims in our own armed forces who love our country and are willing to die for America!!!  How are THEY supposed to feel when they hear this type of thoughtless, hurtful, damaging rhetoric from a presidential candidate???  

It renders me virtually speechless to even contemplate.  

Now at the risk of getting dumped on for offering anything from the AP, I'm going to copy here just one part of their debate fact check article regarding last night, as it relates to this issue alone, and ONLY, I repeat, ONLY because it reminds the rabid anti-Islamists in this country (such as clueless  hate-mongerTrump) that this is a big world and there are a lot of functioning Islamic societies in it, not just the extremist groups and not just those operating under the most heinous aspects of Sharia Law.  

So pick this apart if you must; I'm not offering it as 100% truth, but ONLY (remember, please) as a reminder that we are citizens of a much bigger world than small-minded Donald Trump imagines, that we have to function in it, and that we need and want the friendship of moderate Muslim societies -- whether or not they are perfect in our eyes -- NOT an end that's likely to be accomplished by having Trump at the helm spewing his venomous bigotry and paranoia.  

And yes, yes, I realize that there are much worse atrocities than are cited in the AP piece below.  IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING I SAID ABOVE. It does NOT give us an excuse to turn our backs on who we are as a nation.   WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT, AND WE ARE BETTER THAN DONALD TRUMP, by a long, long shot.  Heaven help me if I'm wrong.

From the AP:

TRUMP: "Islam treats women horribly."

THE FACTS: No such generalization is supported by the diverse circumstances for women in the Muslim world. The United States has yet to see a woman as president, many years after Muslim women achieved national leadership in other countries, most prominently Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto back in the late 1980s and in the 1990s.

Some Muslim societies are indeed repressive by Western standards, enforcing or pressing for norms such as clothing that covers all but their eyes or faces; bans on driving, voting and education; and restrictions on interacting with the other sex. But many Muslim women adhere to Islamic norms not out of fear or repression, but in observance of faith and their own preference.

In almost all countries with majority Muslim populations, women set their own dress codes, graduate from universities, interact with men, work as Western women do, hold senior government posts and take part in competitive sports.

Link:   http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2016-03-11/ap-fact-check-bruised-realities-in-gop-debate

BUMP.   Just wondering -- since I spent an inordinate amount of time on the above post (mea maxima culpa) -- whether or not even one person, but especially Pkr, bothered to read it.  Yes, I know, it's long.  I tried to make it readable, but yeah, it's lengthy.  Still, I can't help wondering...   

SheWrites wrote:Great post, Linda.  I wondered, as I read PK's response, does he think that Trump is any better in regard to the treatment of women when he demeans them in public - to their face?  If that, then, what in private?  

Microscopic views made HUGE does not make them the thought and action of ALL Muslims.

Can you imagine all the images a Muslim could come up with of an America male?  

Looks at porn
Drives a pickup truck with a Confederate flag on the back window
Gun in back window of pickup truck
Toothless
Mullet haircut
Dirty fingernails
Beer breath
"Fathers" multiple children with multiple women

The machine that continues to run and place thoughts into the minds of those who cannot think for themselves - mind boggling.   When will we free people of the connection to the talking heads and propagators of all that keeps the war machine running???

And then we have to listen to their puppets on this forum.

Yes, mind boggling.  

PkrBum wrote:I'm not going to waste my time.

The pattern domestically is to shun and shame intolerance and arcane ritualistic beliefs... in most cases.

Why we wouldn't we apply that same standard to autocratic theocracies is a contradiction in my book.

Markle wrote:WAY too long. Next time you may want to type it out in Word, then EDIT, EDIT, EDIT.  My guess is that you could have said the same thing, with 1/3 of the words.  Your post would have been easier to read, clearer and had more impact.

SheWrites wrote:Great post, Linda.  I wondered, as I read PK's response, does he think that Trump is any better in regard to the treatment of women when he demeans them in public - to their face?  If that, then, what in private?  

Microscopic views made HUGE does not make them the thought and action of ALL Muslims.

Can you imagine all the images a Muslim could come up with of an America male?  

Looks at porn
Drives a pickup truck with a Confederate flag on the back window
Gun in back window of pickup truck
Toothless
Mullet haircut
Dirty fingernails
Beer breath
"Fathers" multiple children with multiple women


The machine that continues to run and place thoughts into the minds of those who cannot think for themselves - mind boggling.   When will we free people of the connection to the talking heads and propagators of all that keeps the war machine running???

And then we have to listen to their puppets on this forum.

Yes, mind boggling.  

RealLindaL wrote:

Markle wrote:WAY too long. Next time you may want to type it out in Word, then EDIT, EDIT, EDIT.  My guess is that you could have said the same thing, with 1/3 of the words.  Your post would have been easier to read, clearer and had more impact.

I already admitted it's long.  And pardon me, Mr. Markle, but you're the LAST person on this forum who should be criticizing anyone for lengthy posts -- oh ye of the endless cut-and-pastes.

You're saying it's "your guess" I could've said the same thing in fewer words, which tells me you didn't read it, either.  

Seems this entire forum is turning out to be a huge waste of MY time, and that's my fault for thinking it would be of value.  I'm very close to outta here and I doubt anyone will much care.  So be it.

SheWrites wrote:

RealLindaL wrote:

Markle wrote:WAY too long. Next time you may want to type it out in Word, then EDIT, EDIT, EDIT.  My guess is that you could have said the same thing, with 1/3 of the words.  Your post would have been easier to read, clearer and had more impact.

I already admitted it's long.  And pardon me, Mr. Markle, but you're the LAST person on this forum who should be criticizing anyone for lengthy posts -- oh ye of the endless cut-and-pastes.

You're saying it's "your guess" I could've said the same thing in fewer words, which tells me you didn't read it, either.  

Seems this entire forum is turning out to be a huge waste of MY time, and that's my fault for thinking it would be of value.  I'm very close to outta here and I doubt anyone will much care.  So be it.

Linda uses her own words and I enjoy her thoughts.

Markle uses everyone else's words - I skim.

Keep writing, Linda.

ZVUGKTUBM wrote: oh ye of the endless cut-and-pastes

He has terabytes worth of cut-and-pastes. LOL!!!!