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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » I've discovered something unique about the place we live in.

I've discovered something unique about the place we live in.

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RealLindaL
Joanimaroni
Hospital Bob
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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The Pensacola metropolitan area (in our case technically called the Pensacola-Ferry Pass-Brent Metropolitan Statistical Area),  had a  population of 455,000 in 2009.
The City of Pensacola has a population of 56,000.

As far as I can determine,  and I've compared this to just about every other American city,  the size of our city in relation to it's metro population,  is smaller than any other city.
The ratio of 9 people living in the suburbs to every one person living inside the city,  is the greatest ratio of city to suburb population in the country.

Just to use one example of our neighbor city in comparison,  the population of Metro Mobile is 416,000,  even smaller than our metro population.  BUT the population inside the city limits of Mobile is 195,000.   So instead of the ratio being 9 to 1 as it is here,  that ratio is only about 2 to 1 in Mobile.

What this results in is a false notion about the population of Pensacola.
We are actually a much bigger place than the city population would indicate.

But it also indicates that there has been a uniquely great resistance here to annexing any more of the population into the city.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Another interesting thing.  Most metro areas (SMSA's) are compromised of several adjacent counties, as many as 8 or 10 in some cases.

But if we take the cluster of only 4 adjacent counties in our vicinity (Mobile, Baldwin,  Escambia and Santa Rosa),  the combined population is right at one million.

If population statistics reflected this,  at one million,  the combined 4 county Gulf Coast metro population would rank in the top 50 in the country.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Bob why are you doing 'high math' so early in the
 morning?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I'm trying to emulate bds
and his statistics. Lol

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Got it!

RealLindaL



Bob wrote:Another interesting thing.  Most metro areas (SMSA's) are compromised of several adjacent counties, as many as 8 or 10 in some cases.

Interesting stuff, Bob, thanks -- and I could've sworn I'd posted a response on this thread earlier.  May've neglected to hit "Send" or something -- wouldn't be the first time for this old lady.

Anyway, what I was wondering was what the criteria are for determining which counties are included in a particular metro area, and who typically decides.   Also, are the counties usually in the same state, at least, if not abutting?  I'm wondering, for instance, why you'd pick Baldwin and Mobile counties rather than, say, Okaloosa and Walton.   Mostly just idly curious so feel free to ignore me.  (I'm used to it.)

2seaoat



Interesting thread Bob. I think you are hitting on something very important. The western Panhandle is an important market and political definitions of taxing units hide the size of the market.

Here is a good analysis of the top 100 tv local markets.

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

They use the Mobile/Pensacola market, but I think you raise an interesting idea that it is broader than that because when using my digital antenna, I am watching Fort Walton TV.

Markle

Markle

Bob wrote:The Pensacola metropolitan area (in our case technically called the Pensacola-Ferry Pass-Brent Metropolitan Statistical Area),  had a  population of 455,000 in 2009.
The City of Pensacola has a population of 56,000.

As far as I can determine,  and I've compared this to just about every other American city,  the size of our city in relation to it's metro population,  is smaller than any other city.
The ratio of 9 people living in the suburbs to every one person living inside the city,  is the greatest ratio of city to suburb population in the country.

Just to use one example of our neighbor city in comparison,  the population of Metro Mobile is 416,000,  even smaller than our metro population.  BUT the population inside the city limits of Mobile is 195,000.   So instead of the ratio being 9 to 1 as it is here,  that ratio is only about 2 to 1 in Mobile.

What this results in is a false notion about the population of Pensacola.
We are actually a much bigger place than the city population would indicate.

But it also indicates that there has been a uniquely great resistance here to annexing any more of the population into the city.

What is your point? Rather is there one?

2seaoat



What is your point? Rather is there one?


There has been a historic tension with those folks who want to consolidate and those who want to keep things the way they were. Earl Bowden who often would participate on the old forum under alias names when I would have fun with the "Patrician of Pensacola" was a real proponent of consolidation and argued the benefits to the region. He was largely responsible for the preservation of the national seashore preservation and in my opinion was a great man who I greatly respected, but he never got it done, and there is still a lot of people who think it is the best way to go to turn Forgotennonia into an important part of Florida. I think Bob has hit on something because a half million people is getting big.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Another interesting point is the famed athletes that have come from our 2 counties.....Escambia and Santa Rosa.  I would love to know that ratio.

2seaoat



Another interesting point is the famed athletes that have come from our 2 counties.....Escambia and Santa Rosa. I would love to know that ratio.


I agree that in the last forty years it has been remarkable that an area with a half million people has produced so many highly talented world class athletes.

Guest


Guest

While they no longer live here, Escambia County has also launched amazing professionals who work in other cities. Again, no statistics.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Markle wrote:
Bob wrote:The Pensacola metropolitan area (in our case technically called the Pensacola-Ferry Pass-Brent Metropolitan Statistical Area),  had a  population of 455,000 in 2009.
The City of Pensacola has a population of 56,000.

As far as I can determine,  and I've compared this to just about every other American city,  the size of our city in relation to it's metro population,  is smaller than any other city.
The ratio of 9 people living in the suburbs to every one person living inside the city,  is the greatest ratio of city to suburb population in the country.

Just to use one example of our neighbor city in comparison,  the population of Metro Mobile is 416,000,  even smaller than our metro population.  BUT the population inside the city limits of Mobile is 195,000.   So instead of the ratio being 9 to 1 as it is here,  that ratio is only about 2 to 1 in Mobile.

What this results in is a false notion about the population of Pensacola.
We are actually a much bigger place than the city population would indicate.

But it also indicates that there has been a uniquely great resistance here to annexing any more of the population into the city.

What is your point?  Rather is there one?

The point was stated in the last two paragraphs of my post.

As another example,  let's take where you live.   Tallahassee's metro population is 375,000,  which is 75,000 less than ours here. 
But the city of Tallahassee contains more than three times the population of the city of Pensacola.
Again,  almost half of the total population of your metropolitan area is in the city,  which is pretty typical.
Pensacola is very atypical,  in fact,  the most atypical of all metropolitan areas.

2seaoat



People in the County do not want to associate with folks who have birdseed back yards. In Tally, Mr. Markle puts real grass seed in his back yard, so birds of a feather flock together.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

RealLindaL wrote:
Bob wrote:Another interesting thing.  Most metro areas (SMSA's) are compromised of several adjacent counties, as many as 8 or 10 in some cases.

I was wondering was what the criteria are for determining which counties are included in a particular metro area, and who typically decides.   Also, are the counties usually in the same state, at least, if not abutting?  I'm wondering, for instance, why you'd pick Baldwin and Mobile counties rather than, say, Okaloosa and Walton.   Mostly just idly curious so feel free to ignore me.  (I'm used to it.)

Deciding which counties to include in an SMSA is determined by The U.S. Office of Management and Budget.  And their criteria is mainly how much of an economic and employment relationship the surrounding counties have to the core county (counties).  And yes it can cross state lines (for example Kansas City Missouri and Kansas City KS are in the same SMSA).

Most people are convinced that New Orleans is a lot bigger place than where we live.
But New Orleans metro area is comprised of seven parishes (counties).  And it's metro population is 1,227,000.  
However,  if the four adjacent gulf coast counties (Mobile,  Baldwin,  Escambia and Santa Rosa) were linked together in similar fashion,  our population would be about 4/5ths the size of New Orleans population,  not "a lot" smaller.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:People in the County do not want to associate with folks who have birdseed back yards.  In Tally, Mr. Markle puts real grass seed in his back yard, so birds of a feather flock together.

I stopped using birdseed to grow grass months ago.  It attracted rats.

Sal

Sal

I'm not so sure just how hard any of these numbers really are.

It really depends on how you define the metropolitan area.

The city of Tampa has a population of about 350,000.

But, what is considered to be the Tampa metropolitan area includes St. Pete and Clearwater which would balloon the population to well over 4 million.

And realistically, the Tampa metropolitan area should include all of Hillsborough County, all of Pinellas County, most of Polk County, and large amounts of Hernando and Manatee Counties.

The media market even includes Citrus and Sarasota.

2seaoat



I stopped using birdseed to grow grass months ago. It attracted rats.


There you go........the metropolitan area can consolidate and Earl can quit rolling in his grave......the rats are gone.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:I'm not so sure just how hard any of these numbers really are.

It really depends on how you define the metropolitan area.

The city of Tampa has a population of about 350,000.

But, what is considered to be the Tampa metropolitan area includes St. Pete and Clearwater which would balloon the population to well over 4 million.

And realistically, the Tampa metropolitan area should include all of Hillsborough County, all of Pinellas County, most of Polk County, and large amounts of Hernando and Manatee Counties.

The media market even includes Citrus and Sarasota.

The Census Bureau defines your metro area to be Hillsborough, Pinellas, Pasco, and Hernando counties.
And the combined population is 4,300,000 and it ranks 18th in size in the country.
The metro Miami area ranks 8th with a population just shy of 6 million.  It's the largest in the southeast.

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:

As far as I can determine, and I've compared this to just about every other American city, the size of our city in relation to it's metro population, is smaller than any other city.
The ratio of 9 people living in the suburbs to every one person living inside the city, is the greatest ratio of city to suburb population in the country.

Right.

So, the ratio in Tampa is more than 12 to 1, and they're actually underestimating the size of the Tampa metropolitan area in my opinion.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:
Bob wrote:

As far as I can determine,  and I've compared this to just about every other American city,  the size of our city in relation to it's metro population,  is smaller than any other city.
The ratio of 9 people living in the suburbs to every one person living inside the city,  is the greatest ratio of city to suburb population in the country.

Right.

So, the ratio in Tampa is more than 12 to 1, and they're actually underestimating the size of the Tampa metropolitan area in my opinion.

Your SMSA has three core cities in it,  Tampa,  St. Pete and Clearwater with a combined population of about 600,000.
Ours has only one and it's population is 55,000.

Sal

Sal

I'm not bragging.

I have to deal with the traffic everyday.

Just pointing out that these numbers are more than a little arbitrary.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:I'm not bragging.

I have to deal with the traffic everyday.

Just pointing out that these numbers are more than a little arbitrary.

The larger Florida metropolitan areas,  as is true with California,  are newer population centers than the ones found in the midwest and the northeast.
And the newer population has grown up around the central cities,  rather than be incorporated into them. 
Pensacola's metro area is also an example of this.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

In 1960,  Escambia County's population was 175,000.  With 56,000 living in the city.
In 2012,  Escambia County's population is more than 450,000.  With 55,000 living in the city.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Here's another interesting population factoid.

When I was growing up,  Pensacola and Escambia County had roughly the same population figures as Orlando and Orange County.
Boy did that ever change.

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