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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » Christian who admits being like Jesus is not easy...

Christian who admits being like Jesus is not easy...

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Joanimaroni
TEOTWAWKI
boards of FL
Vikingwoman
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I follow Jen Hatmaker's blog. She is honest and real. This particular one is so very honest. I wish more Christians could show their real side as she is discussing here. Choosing to live like Jesus is difficult and we, as humans, fail miserable. She nails it in this blog.

It really can be dreadful, this Jesus life. Just dreadful. I completely agree and suffer through all the same anxiety about it. I really do. I desire about 64% of Jesus. That is about all of Him and His ways I can handle. I really mean this. For every 6 things I like about Jesus' stuff, there are 4 that I am totally willing to ignore or discredit. I do it every day, you guys. I look several things in the eye and say NOPE. I hover around a D-.
Take Matthew 25, for example. What a disaster! Jesus so deeply identifies himself with the prisoner and the hungry and the stranger and the naked and poor, He says, "When you consider them and their plight, imagine that it is actually Me you are serving."
Let me tell you something, Jesus: LOW BLOW. I do NOT want to see your face in the faces of these complicated, hurting, needy people. When I see a prisoner, I want to see "criminal." When I see the homeless, I want to see "addict." When I see a refugee, I want to see "threat" or at least "financial drain."
What I do not want to see is your sweet face.
Why couldn't you identify with more stable people? We like you in the faces of our children and best friends, for example. We like you in our government and in our Family Friendly Movies. We like you in our pretty churches and gated neighborhoods.
We do not want to see you in the faces of the poor. That sucks. Now you are really messing with us. You do realize what this sort of holy identification will cost and require, right?
Why?? Why did you have to say all that in Matthew 25? I very much prefer Christian rules to this nonsense. (And it is nonsense, Jesus. Your ways do not make any sort of conventional sense.) I know we are to live this death and resurrection with you, but I only like the resurrection part. I'm serious. I want to skip the death part because it is too hard and requires way too much dying. Rules! You know we prefer rules! If we just dress modestly and don't say the f-word, can we call it a day?
It is so hard down here, Jesus. People are so hurt and scared and abused and confused. We want to follow you but your ways are so terrifying sometimes. Thanks for looking into our faces and seeing "brothers and sisters" instead of cowards and charlatans. You have always elevated our status. I guess if you can see us through miraculous eyes then maybe we have the capacity to look at others and see, well, you.
All this is so hard, Jesus. This world is so banged up. We need you. Help us. Strengthen our faith. Help us trust you. Break our hearts if you must. Give us new eyes to see.

Vikingwoman



She is indeed honest in this post and what she is actually saying is she doesn't feel much empathy for people who are more unfortunate. Either you have empathy or you don't and this woman doesn't so if I were her I wouldn't bother calling myself a Christian if that's what Jesus wants you to do. BTW, many people don't need Jesus to tell us we should feel other peoples pain...we just do.

boards of FL

boards of FL

Is any given act considered to be moral or immoral simply because Jesus deems it as such?  Or is morality rooted in our ability to reason?  Do we have good reasons for or moral values or do we blindly accept what an ancient book tells us?

Are our actions guided by our personal ability to reason and do what we think is right, or are our actions guided by a fear of not obeying the rule of supreme supernatural being? Hopefully it is the former.


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TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Nazi quotes:  
Communism and fascism or nazism, although poles apart in their intellectual content, are similar in this, that both have emotional appeal to the type of personality that takes pleasure in being submerged in a mass movement and submitting to superior authority.

Joseph Paul Geobbels, Nazi quotes:
National Socialism is a religion. All we lack is a religious genius capable of uprooting outmoded religious practices and putting new ones in their place. We lack traditions and ritual. One day soon National Socialism will be the religion of all Germans. My Party is my church, and I believe I serve the Lord best if I do his will, and liberate my oppressed people from the fetters of slavery. That is my gospel.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

boards of FL wrote:Is any given act considered to be moral or immoral simply because Jesus deems it as such?  Or is morality rooted in our ability to reason?  Do we have good reasons for or moral values or do we blindly accept what an ancient book tells us?

Are our actions guided by our personal ability to reason and do what we think is right, or are our actions guided by a fear of not obeying the rule of supreme supernatural being?  Hopefully it is the former.

Why not a combination of your beliefs through your faith, your moral values and your character? Moral values and character are many times based on an individual's faith....which to Christians is not blind.

boards of FL

boards of FL

Joanimaroni wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Is any given act considered to be moral or immoral simply because Jesus deems it as such?  Or is morality rooted in our ability to reason?  Do we have good reasons for or moral values or do we blindly accept what an ancient book tells us?

Are our actions guided by our personal ability to reason and do what we think is right, or are our actions guided by a fear of not obeying the rule of supreme supernatural being?  Hopefully it is the former.

Why not a combination of your beliefs through your faith, your moral values and your character?   Moral values and character are many times based on an individual's faith....which to Christians is not blind.



Well that goes back to my questions then.  Is something moral because a book says that it is moral?  Or is something moral because you can think about it and justify it based upon reason.

Is the murder of children immoral because the bible (or other books) say that it is?  In the absence of some religious text, would we be incapable of arriving at the idea that the murder of children is immoral?  Or is the murder of children immoral because you we can reasonably deduce that it is immoral?  Do we need a book to tell us that something like that is immoral?  

My point is that we should have good reasons for stating whether something is moral or immoral, and those reasons should be rooted in our understanding of reality.  On the other hand, if our reasoning of morality is simply something that we accept on faith from a book, well, then we can convince large numbers of people that phenomena such as homosexuality is immoral.  We can convince large numbers of people that slavery is moral, and we can even provide instruction on things like how to handle slaves, purchase them, punish them, etc., and they will simply believe that to be the case.  If someone decides to accept their morality from a book rather than reasoning and logic, we can convince them that women are subservient beings who rest at the bottom of the totem pole beneath man, who rests still beneath some supreme being.  

I could go on all day.  When our morality isn't based on reasoning and intellect, we can convince people that it is moral to strap on a vest of bombs and detonate themselves in a public square. Etc, etc.  

When we tell ourselves that morality comes from a book, we cheapen morality.


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I knew better than to post this. Rolling Eyes

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Murdering children is okay...abortion...

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

SheWrites wrote:I knew better than to post this.  Rolling Eyes

Bless your heart some will never understand (because it interferes with their non beliefs).


Morality, values, character , and humanity are incorporated and developed many times through beliefs and the way you were raised. Doesn't always include religion.

boards of FL

boards of FL

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Murdering children is okay...abortion...



Well, when a guy masturbates, is he murdering children? No? Why not? Oh, because sperm isn't the same thing as "children"? I see. So where do we draw the line between a three year old running around on his own and sperm? At what point on that scale does the organism achieve the status of "child"?

You see, we're reasoning here. This is how we arrive at morality, not by consulting an ancient text.


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boards of FL

boards of FL

SheWrites wrote:I knew better than to post this.  Rolling Eyes


Well what is the point of participating on a discussion forum if not to explore the beliefs of others and have your own beliefs tested?


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Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

boards of FL wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:Murdering children is okay...abortion...



Well, when a guy masturbates, is he murdering children?  No?  Why not?  Oh, because sperm isn't the same thing as "children"?  I see.  So where do we draw the line between a three year old running around on his own and sperm?  At what point on that scale does the organism achieve the status of "child"?

You see, we're reasoning here.  This is how we arrive at morality, not by consulting an ancient text.  


Surely you are smart enough to figure that one out.

boards of FL

boards of FL

Joanimaroni wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:Murdering children is okay...abortion...



Well, when a guy masturbates, is he murdering children?  No?  Why not?  Oh, because sperm isn't the same thing as "children"?  I see.  So where do we draw the line between a three year old running around on his own and sperm?  At what point on that scale does the organism achieve the status of "child"?

You see, we're reasoning here.  This is how we arrive at morality, not by consulting an ancient text.  


Surely you are smart enough to figure that one out.



I have my ideas of when that happens and TEO has his. We simply disagree.


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Vikingwoman



boards of FL wrote:Is any given act considered to be moral or immoral simply because Jesus deems it as such?  Or is morality rooted in our ability to reason?  Do we have good reasons for or moral values or do we blindly accept what an ancient book tells us?

Are our actions guided by our personal ability to reason and do what we think is right, or are our actions guided by a fear of not obeying the rule of supreme supernatural being?  Hopefully it is the former.

Actually, it's both. People who have damaged frontal brain responses or were brought up in an environment where moral values were not important do not feel empathy for fellow human beings. They may adhere to moral values because of fear of Godly retribution or disdain by others but they don't possess an ability to put themselves in other people's shoes. Religion tells them it is wrong but they don't actually feel the emotions.

Guest


Guest

boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:I knew better than to post this.  Rolling Eyes


Well what is the point of participating on a discussion forum if not to explore the beliefs of others and have your own beliefs tested?  


I guess I read the article through the eyes of the man who said to Jesus, "I believe but help my unbelief." I think that's a bit of what the author was referring to and I appreciated her honesty. We don't always see "real" people who say I still have issues with belief even though I believe. I found this article to genuine.

Vikingwoman



Joanimaroni wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Is any given act considered to be moral or immoral simply because Jesus deems it as such?  Or is morality rooted in our ability to reason?  Do we have good reasons for or moral values or do we blindly accept what an ancient book tells us?

Are our actions guided by our personal ability to reason and do what we think is right, or are our actions guided by a fear of not obeying the rule of supreme supernatural being?  Hopefully it is the former.

Why not a combination of your beliefs through your faith, your moral values and your character?   Moral values and character are many times based on an individual's faith....which to Christians is not blind.

Moral values and character are the same. If you have to get your moral values through faith then something went very wrong somewhere. Even animals have an innate sense of morality when they take in other baby animals and help them survive.

Vikingwoman



SheWrites wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
SheWrites wrote:I knew better than to post this.  Rolling Eyes


Well what is the point of participating on a discussion forum if not to explore the beliefs of others and have your own beliefs tested?  


I guess I read the article through the eyes of the man who said to Jesus, "I believe but help my unbelief."  I think that's a bit of what the author was referring to and I appreciated her honesty.  We don't always see "real" people who say I still have issues with belief even though I believe.  I found this article to genuine.

I'm not sure if your meaning of "genuine" means this is how other people feel too? If it is then it make me feel sad for the people who feel this way because it says" I don't want to know about poor people and suffering and I certainly don't want to help them" which is against Jesus' whole concept of teachings. I think if you struggle w/ that you should just abandon Christianity.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Vikingwoman wrote:
Joanimaroni wrote:
boards of FL wrote:Is any given act considered to be moral or immoral simply because Jesus deems it as such?  Or is morality rooted in our ability to reason?  Do we have good reasons for or moral values or do we blindly accept what an ancient book tells us?

Are our actions guided by our personal ability to reason and do what we think is right, or are our actions guided by a fear of not obeying the rule of supreme supernatural being?  Hopefully it is the former.

Why not a combination of your beliefs through your faith, your moral values and your character?   Moral values and character are many times based on an individual's faith....which to Christians is not blind.

Moral values and character are the same. If you have to get your moral values through faith then something went very wrong somewhere. Even animals have an innate sense of morality when they take in other baby animals and help them survive.

That is instinct not morality.

You can have high moral values and still have character flaws. I never considered them as one.

Vikingwoman



Character means moral or ethical quality. There are one and the same. You cannot have high morals and low character. If you have character flaws, you have moral flaws. One is synonymous w/ the other.


I disagree w/ your instinct meaning. Not many animals will take in another animal but most all animals will nurse their own.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

So you can not have strong moral values and also have a character flaw?

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

I agree it must be difficult to live up to the example of a mythical superhero with supernatural powers and whose Dad is a God.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Vikingwoman wrote: ... Not many animals will take in another animal but most all animals will nurse their own.

Christian who admits being like Jesus is not easy... Tumblr_n0j3ueuC761ririjeo1_500

Vikingwoman



Joanimaroni wrote:So you can not have strong moral values and also have a character flaw?

They're the same. You can't say you have strong moral values and have character flaws. You have mediocre moral values depending on how many.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

What do you consider a personal character flaw to be?

Vikingwoman



Geez, there's so many. How about lying, stealing,etc.

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