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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Which is better for you and your family, socialism or capitalism?

Which is better for you and your family, socialism or capitalism?

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TEOTWAWKI
Floridatexan
Sal
Markle
Hospital Bob
Wordslinger
10 posters

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Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Markle wrote:Not surprising, the Progressives here don't even know what Socialism is or how it "works".  Other than the fact that it uses someone else's money, which is all they care about.

Right, we hear you loud and clear: fuck the middle class, fuck the poor, fuck the workers, fuck the unions, fuck all the non-whites. America began as a haven for the white rich, by the rich and of the rich and you mean to keep it that way. We get it .. and that's what truly frightens fascists like you.

Guest


Guest

"our middleclass is being decimated"... that is the result of your "todays socialism"... which is infact fascism.

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:"our middleclass is being decimated"... that is the result of your "todays socialism"... which is infact fascism.

PkrBum would like us all to understand that anything that is not completely unfettered laissez-faire capitalism is, in fact, fascism.

Thanks for that in depth analysis, PkrBum ....

.... every bit as insightful as always.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

PkrBum wrote:I don't really see what the big difference is. Socialism is State ownership... Fascism is State controlled.

The subtleties might be interesting political fodder... but the end is the same.

The term socialism has varied definitions.  The one I'm using to apply the term to Medicare is "redistribution of wealth".

Yes, you're correct,  a small portion of the amount we pay in social security tax (or in my case "self-employment tax") goes to the Medicare fund.
And once we are eligible for Medicare benefits,  another roughly $100/month is deducted from our SS benefits and that goes to the Medicare fund.
But,  beginning in 2008,  the amount of money paid into the Medicare fund became less than the amount paid out in benefits.  Since then Medicare has needed federal subsidy to continue.  Hence,  a "redistribution of wealth".

Now granted,  a big portion of government subsidies to a lot of things,  Medicare included,  doesn't actually come from "redistribution of wealth",  but instead comes from a "redistribution of borrowing money".  
And it could be argued that, since future generations will suffer the consequences of all this government debt,  that it's a "redistribution of wealth from future generations to today's generation".
But,  in any case,  it is still a "redistribution of wealth" which meets one of my definitions for socialism.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

We have examples of socialism at the local government level as well.

In Escambia County we increased the gas tax to subsidize the bus system.
All motorists are paying the gas taxes.  Most of whom will never ride a bus.
That too is another example of "redistribution of wealth",  hence socialism.

The argument for it is it's done to benefit society in general.  Because many of our fellow citizens need that subsidized bus ride to get to work.  Without it,  many of them would no longer have the needed transportation to get to their minimum wage jobs.
So those who control Escambia County government (and remember these are mostly republicans and conservatives) elected to mandate a "redistribution of wealth" for the good of local society in general.  And if that's not a definition of socialism then I don't know what is.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

So I understand why a certain degree of socialism is needed.

But just like what we see with a government owned and operated health care system (VA), we also see the same inefficiency with the government owned and operated local bus system.
If you ever take a look at the local bus system, what you will see is a lot of mostly empty buses.

So why is this? Why does, generally speaking, private enterprise do a better job of enterprise than government does?
Two simple reasons.

One, when government does enterprise it does it as a monopoly.
Private enterprise has to compete. Competition is what increases productivity and efficiency.

Two, when government does enterprise, it does not have to turn a profit to survive. Many don't like the term "profit motive", but that's also needed to attain productivity and efficiency.

SO, to have a successful society, we need to incorporate both into it. Not just one or the other.
At least that's the opinion of a cowardly fence-sitter whose IQ is lower than a toaster.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

By the way, this is also the opinion of a cowardly fence-sitter whose IQ is lower than a toaster.

I think both of these assholes should go off somewhere and have intercourse with each other. Maybe the offspring from that encounter will be more low-IQ fence-sitters like me and we'll all be better off.

Which is better for you and your family, socialism or capitalism? - Page 2 Michael_moore

Which is better for you and your family, socialism or capitalism? - Page 2 Trust

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:
SO,  to have a successful society,  we need to incorporate both into it.  Not just one or the other.  

Which is better for you and your family, socialism or capitalism? - Page 2 090914_Signals_promo

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:
Bob wrote:
SO,  to have a successful society,  we need to incorporate both into it.  Not just one or the other.  

Which is better for you and your family, socialism or capitalism? - Page 2 090914_Signals_promo

Well it looks like I might have won over the gay vote anyway. lol

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

That's captain obvious Bob...catch up...

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

TEOTWAWKI wrote:That's captain obvious Bob...catch up...

I admit it, I have no clue who or what a "captain obvious" is. And frankly, I don't think I really need to be familiar with whatever that is to lead a successful life.

But if putting up a picture of it is a response to what I wrote, then judging from the earlier posts to this thread and so many posts to so many other threads, I'm not sure just how "obvious" what I wrote is to many others. lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

In Internet culture, Captain Obvious is a fictitious character inspired from comics super-heroes. His main super-power is the ability to state self-evident facts. The sentence "Thank you, Captain Obvious!" is sometimes used in order to sarcastically thank someone who just stated something evident.

I repeat, if what I wrote is so obvious, then why is it not obvious to most all of the posters here, most all of the politicians, and most all of the media pundits?
Methinks something is fucked up about that.



Sal

Sal

I would think that someone who watches as much TV as you claim to would be familiar with Captain Obvious, Bob.

Maybe he doesn't get as much airtime on cable news, I don't watch much of that, so I wouldn't know.

What you wrote, however, is pretty damn obvious tho.

At least it's obvious to anyone who isn't a glibertarian hero who thinks that anything other than completely unfettered lassiez-faire capitalism is fascism, or maybe a communist.

We've got a few of the former, but I haven't seen any of the latter in quite some time.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Since you made mention of "captain obvious" I've now learned that it was popularized by Parker and Stone.  I love Parker and Stone but cannot keep watching anything after it's been out there for so long and that includes South Park or anything else.  With only the exception of the music I love because for some reason my ADHD is not active with that.

But no,  Sal,  to apply the "captain obvious" thing to what I wrote was a total misapplication of the concept.
Because the whole point is that with a topic like "socialism vs capitalism",  what should be so obvious is actually the least obvious thing in our whole political narrative in this country.

Our current political dialogue is EITHER all socialism OR all capitalism.  It IS NOT socialism AND capitalism.
Our two and only political parties are a prime example.  Republicans preach capitalism and democrats preach socialism.  And the media commentary takes the same form.  And so do the posts to this forum.  And never the twain shall meet.
That is the ONE THING that SHOULD be obvious to anyone except a blind,  deaf and dumb person.
Unfortunately,  this country is chock full of the blind,  deaf and dumb and for this we'll have to put you in the dumb category.



Last edited by Bob on 9/23/2015, 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:
Our current political dialogue is EITHER all socialism OR all capitalism.  It IS NOT socialism AND capitalism.
Our two and only political parties are a prime example.  Republicans preach capitalism and democrats preach socialism.  And the media commentary takes the same form.  And so do the posts to this forum.  And never the twain shall meet.
That is the ONE THING that SHOULD be obvious to anyone except a blind,  deaf and dumb person.
Unfortunately,  this country is chock full of the blind,  deaf and dumb.

You watch waaaay too much cable news.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:
You watch waaaay too much cable news.

Well shoot,  Sal,  you just shot down my whole argument.
What I'm describing is ONLY true with "cable news".
It's certainly not true with the posters to this forum.  They all understand the necessity of both capitalism and socialism because the typical post here is in support of both.
Markle loves both.  obamasucks loves both.  bds loves both.  FlaTexan loves both.  wordslinger loves both.  All of you love both.  Not one of you is preaching one or the other.  The typical post here is emphasizing that BOTH socialism and capitalism are equally necessary.
And the politicians of both political parties are preaching a combination of both.  I've never seen a poiltician who likes one and doesn't like the other.  That's unheard of.
And you're right,  only "cable news" likes one or the other but not both.
Just take a look at the alternative media (internet).  Why hell,  all I see are websites and blogs which are preaching that BOTH capitalism and socialism are equally necessary.  I never see any alternative media which is pushing just one or just the other.  Totally unheard of.

So you just destroyed my whole argument,  Sal.  
But only if we've now entered The Twilight Zone.  lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Sal, you are really a smart dude. Your writing here is arguably THE most well written thing we see here. You really have a knack for communicating with the written word.

But, your inclusion of werthers candy and captain obvious in your writing was not an example of that.



Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:
Salinsky wrote:
You watch waaaay too much cable news.

Well shoot,  Sal,  you just shot down my whole argument.
What I'm describing is ONLY true with "cable news".
It's certainly not true with the posters to this forum.  They all understand the necessity of both capitalism and socialism because the typical post here is in support of both.
Markle loves both.  obamasucks loves both.  bds loves both.  FlaTexan loves both.  wordslinger loves both.  All of you love both.  Not one of you is preaching one or the other.  The typical post here is emphasizing that BOTH socialism and capitalism are equally necessary.
And the politicians of both political parties are preaching a combination of both.  I've never seen a poiltician who likes one and doesn't like the other.  That's unheard of.
And you're right,  only "cable news" likes one or the other but not both.
Just take a look at the alternative media (internet).  Why hell,  all I see are websites and blogs which are preaching that BOTH capitalism and socialism are equally necessary.  I never see any alternative media which is pushing just one or just the other.  Totally unheard of.

So you just destroyed my whole argument,  Sal.  
But only if we've entered The Twilight Zone.  lol





I've never seen Boards or FlaTex advocate getting rid of capitalism.

I'll let Wordslinger speak for himself, but I'd doubt he'd advocate that either in all reality.

And, I certainly don't frequent alternative media calling for the United States to convert to a completely Socialist system, nor do I hear Democratic lawmakers suggesting such.

What really we're talking about is the mix of socialistic policy with our capitalistic economic system to balance the scale.

Of course, you have your Markles and your PkrBums and your Teos, who think that anything other than completely unfettered laissez-faire capitalism is the return of Chairman Mao, but you really don't have anything remotely comparable on the other side.

You just don't.

That's just more of your bothsiderism bullshit.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Here's how my "bothsiderism bullshit" was manifest in this thread.

It appears that you are not only afflicted with dumbness,  you're also afflicted with blindness.  
Because if you had eyesight,  you would be able to see the title of the thread is:  "Which is better for you and your family, socialism or capitalism?"

And if you had eyesight,  you would have then seen every poster writing in reply to that and arguing one or the other,  socialism OR capitalism.

That is UNTIL my "bothsiderism bullshit" came along.  If I had not interjected the "bothsiderism bullshit",  this thread would have continued to argue one side or the other and only that.
Just as our national political narrative continues to do.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Salinsky wrote:
Bob wrote:
Salinsky wrote:
You watch waaaay too much cable news.

Well shoot,  Sal,  you just shot down my whole argument.
What I'm describing is ONLY true with "cable news".
It's certainly not true with the posters to this forum.  They all understand the necessity of both capitalism and socialism because the typical post here is in support of both.
Markle loves both.  obamasucks loves both.  bds loves both.  FlaTexan loves both.  wordslinger loves both.  All of you love both.  Not one of you is preaching one or the other.  The typical post here is emphasizing that BOTH socialism and capitalism are equally necessary.
And the politicians of both political parties are preaching a combination of both.  I've never seen a poiltician who likes one and doesn't like the other.  That's unheard of.
And you're right,  only "cable news" likes one or the other but not both.
Just take a look at the alternative media (internet).  Why hell,  all I see are websites and blogs which are preaching that BOTH capitalism and socialism are equally necessary.  I never see any alternative media which is pushing just one or just the other.  Totally unheard of.

So you just destroyed my whole argument,  Sal.  
But only if we've entered The Twilight Zone.  lol





I've never seen Boards or FlaTex advocate getting rid of capitalism.

I'll let Wordslinger speak for himself, but I'd doubt he'd advocate that either in all reality.

And, I certainly don't frequent alternative media calling for the United States to convert to a completely Socialist system, nor do I hear Democratic lawmakers suggesting such.

What really we're talking about is the mix of socialistic policy with our capitalistic economic system to balance the scale.

Of course, you have your Markles and your PkrBums and your Teos, who think that anything other than completely unfettered laissez-faire capitalism is the return of Chairman Mao, but you really don't have anything remotely comparable on the other side.

You just don't.

That's just more of your bothsiderism bullshit.


I'm not for state owned property and farms and factories. I'm for an intelligent and just blend of capitalist-socialism. Just so everyone knows ...

Sal

Sal

Bothsiderism doesn't refer to liking socialism and capitalism equally, Bob.

It refers to how you like to pretend that both sides of the political spectrum add or detract from the political discourse the same.

This thread is a case study of just how full of shit that philosophy is.

On one hand, you have PkrBum and Markle posting about Hitler and Stalin and Mao, and on the other hand, you have the opposite side of the spectrum discussing the optimum blend of socialistic policy in a capitalist system.

I understand that you are incapable of seeing this, much less acknowledging it.

boards of FL

boards of FL

Bob wrote:In Internet culture, Captain Obvious is a fictitious character inspired from comics super-heroes. His main super-power is the ability to state self-evident facts. The sentence "Thank you, Captain Obvious!" is sometimes used in order to sarcastically thank someone who just stated something evident.

I repeat,  if what I wrote is so obvious,  then why is it not obvious to most all of the posters here,  most all of the politicians,  and most all of the media pundits?
Methinks something is fucked up about that.  



To clarify, are you asking for someone to explain to you why people like ObamaSucks, PkrBum, Markle, and TEO don't grasp concepts that are painfully obvious to everyone else?


_________________
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Sal

Sal

Wordslinger wrote:

I'm not for state owned property and farms and factories.  I'm for an intelligent and just blend of capitalist-socialism.  Just so everyone knows ...

And, there you have it.

A clean sweep.

In case you don't know it, you're done here, Bob.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Wordslinger wrote:  I'm for an intelligent and just blend of capitalist-socialism.  Just so everyone knows ...

But you've never really told us that before. Up until this point, you've mainly advocated the socialism part in your posts.

You're telling it to us now only because I wrote some "bothsiderism bullshit" which illicited that response.



Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

See that's what I was getting at before, Sal.

"Bothsiderism bullshit" is a very creative term. As creative as any poster to this board is capable of.

But creative writing is only commendable when it drives a valid point. And that's where you sometimes fall down in your writing.

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