Body cam on child custody church incident

http://www.pnj.com/videos/news/local/2015/09/09/71975168/

I saw it. Why would the police go into a church with the service in progress to detain a child in a custody battle. Of course, I don't know the circumstances, but the child clearly didn't want to be with her father, and there must be a reason for that. It now appears the police chief lied about the chain of events.

It showed a tremendous amount of disrespect for the worshipers.

That poor little girl. I can feel terrible for her without knowing anything about the case.

That poor little girl. I can feel terrible for her without knowing anything about the case.

Agree. If you know adults whose parents had nasty divorces, there is a sadness in these adults. Parents just do not think about the damages they do to innocents. Sometimes it requires a parent to walk away to protect the child, but a child needs both of their parents. Kids security gets shattered when both parents start acting stupid.

The first lady the officer spoke with said she would go in and bring the child out. I wondered why she didn't do what she went in to do. The officer stayed outside of the sanctuary waiting for the child. The lieutenant informed the members of the situation. He reminded them he had a right to remove the child under a court order.

2seaoat wrote:That poor little girl. I can feel terrible for her without knowing anything about the case.

Agree.  If you know adults whose parents had nasty divorces, there is a sadness in these adults.  Parents just do not think about the damages they do to innocents.  Sometimes it requires a parent to walk away to protect the child, but a child needs both of their parents.  Kids security gets shattered when both parents start acting stupid.

This was the parent and grandparents. I don't know the situation and neither do you. It has to be handled legally. As far as children needing both their parents, yes in normal situations they do. However, that is not always the case, some children should not be with a parent that causes harm. Some do not need to be with either parent.

The child obviously did not want to go. The officer tried to get the child to give her a reason not to go. The child offered nothing except the father did not answer her calls.The officers were within the law.

The officers were within the law.

I have not heard anybody challenge the same. It was a question of common sense and respect. I would be appalled if the police decided to come into my church during services for ANY reason other than an armed violent criminal who was going to harm someone. Terrible judgment and disrespect. A bunch of people have some explaining to do which required this urgency and the resulting disruption and disrespect. I could NEVER imagine this happening at my church.....it is mind boggling.

2seaoat wrote:The officers were within the law.

I have not heard anybody challenge the same.  It was a question of common sense and respect.  I would be appalled if the police decided to come into my church during services for ANY reason other than an armed violent criminal who was going to harm someone.  Terrible judgment and disrespect.  A bunch of people have some explaining to do which required this urgency and the resulting disruption and disrespect.  I could NEVER imagine this happening at my church.....it is mind boggling.

I can't imagine it happening at, for example, First Baptist Church. Whether or not Officer Darling (?) followed protocol, she showed an inordinate lack of respect.

Floridatexan wrote:

2seaoat wrote:The officers were within the law.

I have not heard anybody challenge the same.  It was a question of common sense and respect.  I would be appalled if the police decided to come into my church during services for ANY reason other than an armed violent criminal who was going to harm someone.  Terrible judgment and disrespect.  A bunch of people have some explaining to do which required this urgency and the resulting disruption and disrespect.  I could NEVER imagine this happening at my church.....it is mind boggling.

I can't imagine it happening at, for example, First Baptist Church.  Whether or not Officer Darling (?) followed protocol, she showed an inordinate lack of respect.

What should they have done, cover all the doors and wait? The child was suppose to have been brought out.

What should they have done, cover all the doors and wait? The child was suppose to have been brought out.



I cannot believe you asked that question. I will help here. Wait until the service is over and discretely not embarrass the child. They totally lost the part about the best interest of the child. I am surprised you cannot see how inappropriate this was.

2seaoat wrote:What should they have done, cover all the doors and wait? The child was suppose to have been brought out.



I cannot believe you asked that question.  I will help here.   Wait until the service is over and discretely not embarrass the child.  They totally lost the part about the best interest of the child.  I am surprised you cannot see how inappropriate this was.

This would have been avoided if the grandparents had answered the door when the officer was at their home.

Separation of Church and state was actually meant to protect the church...what right does the state have to violate a church sanctuary for such a light cause ? Oh that's right liberals love guns when they are used to force those they don't like to obey some petty law.

1st Amend..Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Guess we need to add unless it inconveniences some jackboot cop ....

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Separation of Church and state was actually meant to protect the church...what right does the state have to violate a church sanctuary for such a light cause ? Oh that's right liberals love guns when they are used to force those they don't like to obey some petty law.

1st Amend..Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Guess we need to add unless it inconveniences some jackboot cop ....

WTH are you even talking about?

Floridatexan wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Separation of Church and state was actually meant to protect the church...what right does the state have to violate a church sanctuary for such a light cause ? Oh that's right liberals love guns when they are used to force those they don't like to obey some petty law.

1st Amend..Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Guess we need to add unless it inconveniences some jackboot cop ....

WTH are you even talking about?  

Surprise surprise a progressive fascist that doesn't understand the constitution....

Floridatexan wrote:

2seaoat wrote:The officers were within the law.

I have not heard anybody challenge the same.  It was a question of common sense and respect.  I would be appalled if the police decided to come into my church during services for ANY reason other than an armed violent criminal who was going to harm someone.  Terrible judgment and disrespect.  A bunch of people have some explaining to do which required this urgency and the resulting disruption and disrespect.  I could NEVER imagine this happening at my church.....it is mind boggling.

I can't imagine it happening at, for example, First Baptist Church.  Whether or not Officer Darling (?) followed protocol, she showed an inordinate lack of respect.

Oh bullshit! The Officer apologized repeatedly. They had an immediate pick up order. The police are supposed to sit around and wait until they get ready?

Vikingwoman wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:

2seaoat wrote:The officers were within the law.

I have not heard anybody challenge the same.  It was a question of common sense and respect.  I would be appalled if the police decided to come into my church during services for ANY reason other than an armed violent criminal who was going to harm someone.  Terrible judgment and disrespect.  A bunch of people have some explaining to do which required this urgency and the resulting disruption and disrespect.  I could NEVER imagine this happening at my church.....it is mind boggling.

I can't imagine it happening at, for example, First Baptist Church.  Whether or not Officer Darling (?) followed protocol, she showed an inordinate lack of respect.

Oh bullshit! The Officer apologized repeatedly. They had an immediate pick up order. The police are supposed to sit around and wait until they get ready?

P U B L I C  -  S E R V A N T S ....if you don't like the rules don't take the job.

I seem to remember another church the government handled well.....



There are about 75 men around our building shooting at us in Mount Carmel.  Tell them there are children and women in here and to call if off!  Call it off!
Wayne Martin on 9-1-1 tape one minute after BATF attacked

Oh boy the BATF got it's budget renewed and they all got to play army just like they were real soldiers in Vietnam....Pass out the medals it was a rousing success !



The Koresh compound never needed to be assaulted in the first place. Law enforcement people around Waco, including the sheriff and the former district attorney, said Koresh would come in whenever they needed to talk to him. All they had to do was call.

After the death of Lois Roden and probate of her estate in January 1987, Howell attempted to gain control of Mount Carmel Center by force. George Roden had dug up the casket of one Anna Hughes from the Davidian cemetery and had challenged Howell to a resurrection contest to prove who was the rightful heir to the leadership. Howell instead went to the police and claimed Roden was guilty of corpse abuse, but the county prosecutors refused to file charges without proof. On November 3, Howell and seven armed companions attempted to access the Mount Carmel chapel, with the goal of photographing the body in the casket as evidence to incriminate Roden. Roden was advised of the interlopers and grabbed an Uzi in response. The Sheriff's Department responded about 20 minutes into the gunfight, during which Roden was wounded. Sheriff Harwell got Howell on the phone and told him to stop shooting and surrender. Howell and his companions, dubbed the "Rodenville Eight" by the media, were tried for attempted murder on April 12, 1988; seven were acquitted and the jury was hung on Howell's verdict. The county prosecutors did not press the case further.[14] While waiting for the trial, Roden was put in jail under contempt of court charges because of his use of foul language in some court pleadings, threatening the Texas court with sexually transmitted diseases if the court ruled in favor of Howell. The next day, Perry Jones and a number of Howell's other followers moved from their headquarters in Palestine, Texas, to Mount Carmel. In mid-1989, Roden used an axe to kill a Davidian named Wayman Dale Adair, who visited him to discuss Adair's vision of being God's chosen messiah. He was found guilty under an insanity defense and was committed to a mental hospital. Shortly after Roden's commitment, Howell raised money to pay off all the back taxes on Mount Carmel owed by Roden and took legal control of the property.[15]

Yep.....the ATF was crazy.

2seaoat wrote:

After the death of Lois Roden and probate of her estate in January 1987, Howell attempted to gain control of Mount Carmel Center by force. George Roden had dug up the casket of one Anna Hughes from the Davidian cemetery and had challenged Howell to a resurrection contest to prove who was the rightful heir to the leadership. Howell instead went to the police and claimed Roden was guilty of corpse abuse, but the county prosecutors refused to file charges without proof. On November 3, Howell and seven armed companions attempted to access the Mount Carmel chapel, with the goal of photographing the body in the casket as evidence to incriminate Roden. Roden was advised of the interlopers and grabbed an Uzi in response. The Sheriff's Department responded about 20 minutes into the gunfight, during which Roden was wounded. Sheriff Harwell got Howell on the phone and told him to stop shooting and surrender. Howell and his companions, dubbed the "Rodenville Eight" by the media, were tried for attempted murder on April 12, 1988; seven were acquitted and the jury was hung on Howell's verdict. The county prosecutors did not press the case further.[14] While waiting for the trial, Roden was put in jail under contempt of court charges because of his use of foul language in some court pleadings, threatening the Texas court with sexually transmitted diseases if the court ruled in favor of Howell. The next day, Perry Jones and a number of Howell's other followers moved from their headquarters in Palestine, Texas, to Mount Carmel. In mid-1989, Roden used an axe to kill a Davidian named Wayman Dale Adair, who visited him to discuss Adair's vision of being God's chosen messiah. He was found guilty under an insanity defense and was committed to a mental hospital. Shortly after Roden's commitment, Howell raised money to pay off all the back taxes on Mount Carmel owed by Roden and took legal control of the property.[15]

Yep.....the ATF was crazy.

Could spread the same stuff about Brigham Young so what?

Oh and Peter cut the ear off a Roman soldier when Jesus was SWAT teamed do you suppose they were all crazy...I am pretty sure Peter was trying to split the guys skull and missed his mark....

Was Jesus queer? We don't know. But it is a possibility that cannot be ruled out. One version of St. Mark's gospel - which is still the subject of academic dispute - alludes to Jesus having a homosexual relationship with a youth he raised from the dead.

According to the US Biblical scholar, Morton Smith, of Columbia University, a fragment of manuscript he found at the Mar Saba monastery near Jerusalem in 1958, showed that the full text of St. Mark chapter 10 (between verses 34 and 35 in the standard version of the Bible) includes the passage:

"And the youth, looking upon him (Jesus), loved him and beseeched that he might remain with him. And going out of the tomb, they went into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days, Jesus instructed him and, at evening, the youth came to him wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God".

The veracity of this manuscript is hotly contested by other Biblical scholars. This comes as no surprise. The revelation of a gay Jesus would undermine some of the most fundamental tenets of orthodox Christianity, including its rampant homophobia.

2seaoat wrote:Was Jesus queer? We don't know. But it is a possibility that cannot be ruled out. One version of St. Mark's gospel - which is still the subject of academic dispute - alludes to Jesus having a homosexual relationship with a youth he raised from the dead.

According to the US Biblical scholar, Morton Smith, of Columbia University, a fragment of manuscript he found at the Mar Saba monastery near Jerusalem in 1958, showed that the full text of St. Mark chapter 10 (between verses 34 and 35 in the standard version of the Bible) includes the passage:

"And the youth, looking upon him (Jesus), loved him and beseeched that he might remain with him. And going out of the tomb, they went into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days, Jesus instructed him and, at evening, the youth came to him wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God".

The veracity of this manuscript is hotly contested by other Biblical scholars. This comes as no surprise. The revelation of a gay Jesus would undermine some of the most fundamental tenets of orthodox Christianity, including its rampant homophobia.

You jumped the shark calling Jesus queer...I guess you never read Romans ? Yeah stick with Matt 6 .... that's all you need......you can dream up the rest to suit yourself.

You jumped the shark calling Jesus queer...I guess you never read Romans ? Yeah stick with Matt 6 .... that's all you need......you can dream up the rest to suit yourself.


I just cut and pasted a bibical scholar's thesis.....I sense there is a common thread between El Paso, Utah, and Israel.......but I will need you to explain the same........being that you have cornered the market on dream up the rest to suit yourself.