If you are fat ...give up....Gloom..

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/07/20/study-probability-of-obese-people-reaching-normal-weight-less-than-1/

Study: Probability of Obese People Reaching ‘Normal’ Weight Less Than 1%

Programs like Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig are designed to help overweight and obese people shed extra pounds with the help of a support system — but a new study published in the American Journal of Public Health suggests that most obese people who don’t get some kind of weight loss surgery will never achieve a “normal” weight.

The Centers for Disease Control classify a BMI of between 25 and 29.9 as “overweight,” anything above that as obese.

Data for 76,704 obese men and 99,791 obese women from the United Kingdom were analyzed over the course of nine years, and researchers found that the annual probability of reaching a normal weight was just 1 in 210 for obese men and 1 in 124 for obese women (obese = 30.0–34.9 BMI).

For those with morbid obesity (BMI = 40.0–44.9), those odds decreased to 1 in 1,290 for men and 1 in 677 for women.

And, at least 50 percent of patients who managed to achieve a 5 percent weight loss were shown to have regained the weight within two years.

Upcoming on the progressive agenda will be free liposuction for all.

*****NULL FACE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9IfHDi-2EA

Cut out nearly all sugar and artificial sweeteners; all alcohol; reduce to a bare minimum carbs, starchy foods like potatoes, milk products. Minimize processed foods as much as possible.   Basically Paleo diet ... meats & lots of veggies (potatoes & rice are not veggies)... minimal fresh fruit  

Don't worry about calories & throw your scale away.

Reduce sitting & be as active as you can throughout the day.

Exercise as much as possible but don't overdo it depending on your current weight/condition - walking, running, cardio machines, dance .... whatever it is you like to do & be sure, try to work up to at least breaking a sweat & be sure to include at least some resistance exercise (weights) every two or three days.   (bicycling is okay .... but really not that good of exercise unless you do a whole lot of it) Do some stretching or yoga every day.

Get as much sleep through the night as you can .....  5 to 8 hours.   Take an afternoon nap if you can ... no more than 60 to 90 minutes.

You'll lose it guaranteed ... if you stick with it.   And feel better.

Americans shouldn't be allowed to feed themselves. State cafeterias would monitor intakes and requirements.

Good health for all will require many more govt programs and controls.

PkrBum wrote:Americans shouldn't be allowed to feed themselves. State cafeterias would monitor intakes and requirements.

Good health for all will require many more govt programs and controls.

I respectfully disagree ... the concept of individual liberty includes the liberty to do things that aren't necessarily good for you.

Government shouldn't be feeding anyone except the most desperate anyway ... and that should be done on the local level. Not Federal or State.

I'm being facetious of course. No matter the rationales used to pass obamacaid... the end goal is progressive controls.

I use those extremes to illustrate what real govt controls will look like. Food control (obesity is a huge cost driver) mandatory gym membership (lack of physical condition affects health) genetic screening (makes no sense to perpetuate maladies) means testing for child permits... etc.

I would make a very good progressive... if I were so inclined.

Good health for all will require many more govt programs and controls.

I agree.  You were being facetious.  I am not.  I walk around a big box store, and I see and ENTIRE population which is grossly overweight.  I see young people who are with few exception obese.  I believe taxation is the answer.  If people want to flood the local convenient store with fat or sugar poisons, then those should be taxed for the inevitable health care costs that must be borne by society when these products are introduced into commerce.   Pot is attacked as dangerous, and government has spent trillions to fight the same, and the health impact on America is not negative.  However, these poisons enter the marketplace as some argue we should regulate what people eat.....I say hell NO....let them eat whatever they want, but let them pay the tax for their choices which will be borne by society.  The average life span in 1850 was 40, it is today 80.   The cost to society for our dietary choices will bankrupt America, so it is absolutely necessary to recoup our medical costs which originate in changes in America's diet by a comprehensive taxing criteria based on healthy foods.  If I have to pay a 20 cent health tax for eating my twinkie........it is my free choice, and America can begin to recoup some of our future costs for the poison which flows into our commerce and destroys Americas health.   Hell yes government has a role, and it begins with the use of taxes similar to Alcohol and tobacco which harm health.

I have mentioned this idea before:  Implement a cap & trade policy for the number of acres on which corn can be grown for processed food production.  Corn is very much a driver in our obesity problem as it gets repurposed every way imaginable in order to appear as other foods by way of high fructose corn syrup and other processed corn products.  

Cap the number of acres that can be used for processed food production, determine an optimal way of distributing licenses for that growth (most likely an auction), and then allow for those licenses to be traded on the open market.

That would reduce the amount of available corn for processed food production, thus reducing the number of products that are wrought with high fructose corn syrup, it would drive up the price on remaining processed corn products thereby reducing consumption, and thus directly address our obesity epidemic while also reducing healthcare costs.  And all of this without impeding the end consumer's ability to choose what to eat.   We could then end all corn subsidies.  Everyone wins.

I would disagree with many things in regard to your plan and agree on things in your plan.  End the corn subsidies.   Phase them out.  Cap and trade might work if we have a closed national market.  We do not.  Corn is fungible and it is still an important food source for most humans in the world along with rice.  These basic staples are needed in full quantity to support the growing population.  Much of the subsidy to Midwest grain farmers started with subsidies to not grow corn and put land into conservation easements for ten year periods.  Currently, midwest farmers are cutting down fence line trees as they are destroying natural habitat for animals and creating mile after mile of sterile environment which has only two purposes....the production of corn and soybeans.   The market over the last five years has been insatiable.  I do not think America can arbitrarily change demand with a cap and trade system.  I do believe that they can under the tax code tax the transformations of corn which are put into the food chain and processed in a manner which carries a high societal cost.  This would be tariffs on processed foods imported, and excise taxes on harmful food products.  This is not that difficult as our economy has always used excise taxes on commodities like gas, tobacco, and alcohol.

Our farms must keep efficiently producing food, and the government subsidy for the same is insane when we have a vibrant world market which has brought top dollar demand to to our corn harvest.   Cap and trade of corn does not address the processing harm and the need for specific excise taxes.

2seaoat wrote:I would disagree with many things in regard to your plan and agree on things in your plan.  End the corn subsidies.   Phase them out.  Cap and trade might work if we have a closed national market.  We do not.  Corn is fungible and it is still an important food source for most humans in the world along with rice.  These basic staples are needed in full quantity to support the growing population.  Much of the subsidy to Midwest grain farmers started with subsidies to not grow corn and put land into conservation easements for ten year periods.  Currently, midwest farmers are cutting down fence line trees as they are destroying natural habitat for animals and creating mile after mile of sterile environment which has only two purposes....the production of corn and soybeans.   The market over the last five years has been insatiable.  I do not think America can arbitrarily change demand with a cap and trade system.  I do believe that they can under the tax code tax the transformations of corn which are put into the food chain and processed in a manner which carries a high societal cost.  This would be tariffs on processed foods imported, and excise taxes on harmful food products.  This is not that difficult as our economy has always used excise taxes on commodities like gas, tobacco, and alcohol.

Our farms must keep efficiently producing food, and the government subsidy for the same is insane when we have a vibrant world market which has brought top dollar demand to to our corn harvest.   Cap and trade of corn does not address the processing harm and the need for specific excise taxes.

A tax directed at the transformation of corn products would work as well, perhaps even better than my idea. Good point.

Getting back on topic . . . . . I am from a fat family not morbid obesity but still most family members are freaking fat.  My brother's kids are all well educated . . . . one a mining engineer, 2 RN's, 1 midwife.  They have ALL had the gastric bypass surgery and only one has kept the weight off over a five year period . . . . they refuse to change their eating habits . . . .duh!
In my case I have tried to stay in shape but frankly slowly gained weight over the past few years . . . . . my waist size began at 34 then 36 then 38!  My weight went up to 215 at one point and a friend/neighbor introduced me to a device that monitors activity . . . . . . a fitbit . . . . . she explained that a person's goal should be 10,000 steps a day optimally.  OK I got one began watching my diet more closely and walking . . . . . This began on Sept. 3rd of '13 . . . . . My weight fell from 215 to 170 and I fit comfortably in my clothes now and my blood work is like a teenagers . . . .  BP perfect . . . . have energy and have adopted this activity now as part of my new normal.  I run/walk/jog a minimum of 5 miles daily weather allowing . . . . . while I am sharing my success story I must also say that I ran in last years Seville Quarter Turkey Trot 5K placing 2nd in my age group. I completed the 5K in 29:21!  My story verifies what we all know to be true . . . . . activity is the key providing you start slow and work up to more and more activity . . . . . you body will tell when and how much . . . . point is make a pact with yourself . . . . . I'm doing this and push aside the things that we all use as excuses . . . . I love feeling healthy now and just want to share the path that worked for me.

I completely agree that physical activity is essential for healthy choices.  However, our young people recreate interacting with each other and a video game while sitting down.   As a child, I never stopped moving from 7am until 7pm.  We ran freely exploring the world.  I think that the babyboom generation under the guise of concern for children have put a generation into house custody  for ease of monitoring without realizing we are making unhealthy weak children.  Many advocates for children on this forum talk about criminal charges for parents who allow children to free range.......a walk to the park become a parental crime for lack of supervision.   Our supervision has been literally solitary confinement for a generation of children, and like a prison it is more about the ease of control of the inmates than it is about their welfare, and the need for them to be independent and strong physically and mentally.

There is no simple solution, but a dialogue which addresses the health of Americans is a start.  I can tell you right now, if there was some type of environmental or dietary component of my cancer, I would in hindsight tried to avoid the same over the last thirty years.   As a civilized society it is not about more government control, but about the general welfare of our citizens, and government most certainly has a part, and turning parents into criminals, and giving subsidy to poisons both in our environment and in our diet must stop.  We need a national dialogue which goes beyond making fun of the first lady's attempts to address one small component of diet in schools.  In the end it is a dollar and cents common sense government priority.

knothead wrote:Getting back on topic . . . . . I am from a fat family not morbid obesity but still most family members are freaking fat.  My brother's kids are all well educated . . . . one a mining engineer, 2 RN's, 1 midwife.  They have ALL had the gastric bypass surgery and only one has kept the weight off over a five year period . . . . they refuse to change their eating habits . . . .duh!
In my case I have tried to stay in shape but frankly slowly gained weight over the past few years . . . . . my waist size began at 34 then 36 then 38!  My weight went up to 215 at one point and a friend/neighbor introduced me to a device that monitors activity . . . . . . a fitbit . . . . . she explained that a person's goal should be 10,000 steps a day optimally.  OK I got one began watching my diet more closely and walking . . . . . This began on Sept. 3rd of '13 . . . . . My weight fell from 215 to 170 and I fit comfortably in my clothes now and my blood work is like a teenagers . . . .  BP perfect . . . . have energy and have adopted this activity now as part of my new normal.  I run/walk/jog a minimum of 5 miles daily weather allowing . . . . . while I am sharing my success story I must also say that I ran in last years Seville Quarter Turkey Trot 5K placing 2nd in my age group. I completed the 5K in 29:21!  My story verifies what we all know to be true . . . . . activity is the key providing you start slow and work up to more and more activity . . . . . you body will tell when and how much . . . . point is make a pact with yourself . . . . . I'm doing this and push aside the things that we all use as excuses . . . . I love feeling healthy now and just want to share the path that worked for me.

Hey I got a fitbit and that sucker gave me 10000 steps and 20 flights of stairs for a short ride on my harley....LOL it's much harder to come by the 10000 honestly.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

knothead wrote:Getting back on topic . . . . . I am from a fat family not morbid obesity but still most family members are freaking fat.  My brother's kids are all well educated . . . . one a mining engineer, 2 RN's, 1 midwife.  They have ALL had the gastric bypass surgery and only one has kept the weight off over a five year period . . . . they refuse to change their eating habits . . . .duh!
In my case I have tried to stay in shape but frankly slowly gained weight over the past few years . . . . . my waist size began at 34 then 36 then 38!  My weight went up to 215 at one point and a friend/neighbor introduced me to a device that monitors activity . . . . . . a fitbit . . . . . she explained that a person's goal should be 10,000 steps a day optimally.  OK I got one began watching my diet more closely and walking . . . . . This began on Sept. 3rd of '13 . . . . . My weight fell from 215 to 170 and I fit comfortably in my clothes now and my blood work is like a teenagers . . . .  BP perfect . . . . have energy and have adopted this activity now as part of my new normal.  I run/walk/jog a minimum of 5 miles daily weather allowing . . . . . while I am sharing my success story I must also say that I ran in last years Seville Quarter Turkey Trot 5K placing 2nd in my age group. I completed the 5K in 29:21!  My story verifies what we all know to be true . . . . . activity is the key providing you start slow and work up to more and more activity . . . . . you body will tell when and how much . . . . point is make a pact with yourself . . . . . I'm doing this and push aside the things that we all use as excuses . . . . I love feeling healthy now and just want to share the path that worked for me.

Hey I got a fitbit and that sucker gave me 10000 steps and 20 flights of stairs for a short ride on my harley....LOL   it's much harder to come by the 10000 honestly.

That's hilarious T, you are correct . . . . . it ain't easy but it works! I would be dishonest if I said that there are not days when I start out at 5:00 AM and get about 4-5 miles behind me and this little feller on my shoulder asks "Have you lost your mind?" "Turn around, go home, lay on the couch!"
It's been the one thing that I have conquered and that is the tendency to submit to pain and the difficulty . . . . . stay the course.

I like it but it still startles me when it vibrates to congratulate me on reaching a goal....LOL

The sleep function is my favorite...I was getting around 4 hours a night till I got this thing.....now I am getting better and more sleep. I sleep better on some beds and in different positions.

I go to a lot of trouble to eat right. I hunt, fish, garden... I even can. I also belong to a farm coop and buy eggs, a cow and a pig from local farms. It's a bit more expensive... but worth it to me. I rarely ever take in high fructose corn syrup or hydrogenated oils. I'm not able to exercise like I used to because of my neck... but I've noticed that my appetite has naturally declined to compensate. I only weigh five more pounds than I did in college. I do drink about once every week or two and usually smoke a cigar when I do... but I seem to have less desire to do that as I age too. I sure do miss playing tennis tournaments though.

Isn't there a brace you can wear ?

TEOTWAWKI wrote:I like it but it still startles me when it vibrates to congratulate me on reaching a goal....LOL

The sleep function is my favorite...I was getting around 4 hours a night till I got this thing.....now I am getting better and more sleep. I sleep better on some beds and in different positions.

You have the Cadillac version, mine is the simplest one available, btw congrats and am glad you are engaged with your health, that's a great thing!

Nope... four vertebra fused with rods and screws. One of the places the disc was removed and replaced with cadaver bone and my marrow hadn't hardened all the way. Even if it does the dr doesn't think playing hard and competitively is a good idea.

I can still hit and teach as long as I don't run... dems da breaks. There was something about playing tournaments that I don't think I'll ever get over though. I played some guys from the time I was a kid... the national tourns were really fun seeing old friends.

2seaoat wrote:Good health for all will require many more govt programs and controls.

I agree.  You were being facetious.  I am not.  I walk around a big box store, and I see and ENTIRE population which is grossly overweight.  I see young people who are with few exception obese.  I believe taxation is the answer.  ....  

I disagree.  

The purpose of taxation (particularly at the Federal level) should be to pay the legitimate Constitutional expenses of operating the government ..... not as a carrot-and-stick tool for politicians & bureaucrats to use to manipulate the otherwise legal social behaviors of a free people.  Therein lies the road to tyranny, IMO.

PkrBum wrote:Nope... four vertebra fused with rods and screws. One of the places the disc was removed and replaced with cadaver bone and my marrow hadn't hardened all the way. Even if it does the dr doesn't think playing  hard and competitively is a good idea.

I can still hit and teach as long as I don't run... dems da breaks. There was something about playing tournaments that I don't think I'll ever get over though. I played some guys from the time I was a kid... the national tourns were really fun seeing old friends.

I hate that for you pkr, I sense that you were very active in the day so I know you miss that whole scene of competitiveness . . . . as you said dems da breaks but we do what we can as long as we can.

I disagree.  

The purpose of taxation (particularly at the Federal level) should be to pay the legitimate Constitutional expenses of operating the government ..... not as a carrot-and-stick tool to manipulate the otherwise legal social behaviors of a free people.  Therein lies the road to tyranny, IMO.

I am glad you disagree.  A budget represents a society's priorities.  Our current budget and revenue collection and spending supports subsidy to grain farmers, subsidy to burn food and prop up higher grain prices, beef subsidies which promote cheaper beef prices for fast food.  So when a family goes into Macs to buy unhealthy food, the government has given tax advantage to those who pedal poison.  It is a reality that the health costs of that "happy meal" is actually subsidized and has a real and measurable health cost with rampant obesity with the sale and profit on these subsidized poisonous foods.   So when I suggest to take away the subsidy and tax advantages, and replace them with excise taxes on products put into commerce which hurt Americans health......you disagree.   The status quo of tax policy is killing Americans and if that happy meal becomes more expensive than healthy food alternatives involving fresh fruits, and vegetables which are healthy alternatives to the processed grain production in America......the grain farmers get almost all of agricultural subsidy, but Orchards, organically grown LOCAL vegetables and other products do not have the farm lobby transferring trillions into those farmers coffers......big ag business and farms are making record profits and the path to healthy living starts and ends with the priorities of a society which is reflected in a budget and how we collect revenues to achieve the general welfare of our citizens.   If people are ignorant how taxes are used now to poison us, they need to educate themselves.

knothead wrote:

PkrBum wrote:Nope... four vertebra fused with rods and screws. One of the places the disc was removed and replaced with cadaver bone and my marrow hadn't hardened all the way. Even if it does the dr doesn't think playing  hard and competitively is a good idea.

I can still hit and teach as long as I don't run... dems da breaks. There was something about playing tournaments that I don't think I'll ever get over though. I played some guys from the time I was a kid... the national tourns were really fun seeing old friends.

I hate that for you pkr, I sense that you were very active in the day so I know you miss that whole scene of competitiveness . . . . as you said dems da breaks but we do what we can as long as we can.

Thanks knot... nothin I can really do about it. I've thght about maybe playing pool again. I've mostly lost my love for poker... I just don't have the patience to sit through a tournament anymore... and I never really liked playing cash games.

2seaoat wrote:I disagree.  

The purpose of taxation (particularly at the Federal level) should be to pay the legitimate Constitutional expenses of operating the government ..... not as a carrot-and-stick tool to manipulate the otherwise legal social behaviors of a free people.  Therein lies the road to tyranny, IMO.

I am glad you disagree.  A budget represents a society's priorities.  Our current budget and revenue collection and spending supports subsidy to grain farmers, subsidy to burn food and prop up higher grain prices, beef subsidies which promote cheaper beef prices for fast food.  So when a family goes into Macs to buy unhealthy food, the government has given tax advantage to those who pedal poison.  It is a reality that the health costs of that "happy meal" is actually subsidized and has a real and measurable health cost with rampant obesity with the sale and profit on these subsidized poisonous foods.   So when I suggest to take away the subsidy and tax advantages, and replace them with excise taxes on products put into commerce which hurt Americans health......you disagree.   The status quo of tax policy is killing Americans and if that happy meal becomes more expensive than healthy food alternatives involving fresh fruits, and vegetables which are healthy alternatives to the processed grain production in America......the grain farmers get almost all of agricultural subsidy, but Orchards, organically grown LOCAL vegetables and other products do not have the farm lobby transferring trillions into those farmers coffers......big ag business and farms are making record profits and the path to healthy living starts and ends with the priorities of a society which is reflected in a budget and how we collect revenues to achieve the general welfare of our citizens.   If people are ignorant how taxes are used now to poison us, they need to educate themselves.

Never said I agreed with all the subsidies either .... and two wrongs don't make a right.

It seems as though you are, in a way, saying the solution to too much government is ... more government?

Subsidies & corporate tax breaks, just like taxes designed to promote/discourage social behaviors, should be implemented/imposed rarely & cautiously only in special circumstances & any such deemed necessary should be intended to be short-term with sunset provisions.  Of course we couldn't do away with the system as exists overnight .... but they could & should be phased out.

(I do recognize though that my way of thinking is kind of a pipe-dream, at least in the near term .... the American people by & large, including conservatives, continue to vote for more & more government involvement/control in our lives, businesses, markets, and social behaviors .... despite their rhetoric to the contrary)

PkrBum wrote:

knothead wrote:

PkrBum wrote:Nope... four vertebra fused with rods and screws. One of the places the disc was removed and replaced with cadaver bone and my marrow hadn't hardened all the way. Even if it does the dr doesn't think playing  hard and competitively is a good idea.

I can still hit and teach as long as I don't run... dems da breaks. There was something about playing tournaments that I don't think I'll ever get over though. I played some guys from the time I was a kid... the national tourns were really fun seeing old friends.

I hate that for you pkr, I sense that you were very active in the day so I know you miss that whole scene of competitiveness . . . . as you said dems da breaks but we do what we can as long as we can.

Thanks knot... nothin I can really do about it. I've thght about maybe playing pool again. I've mostly lost my love for poker... I just don't have the patience to sit through a tournament anymore... and I never really liked playing cash games.

Heck I've had to give up on pool . . . . . a game I loved btw but now, without special glasses, I can no longer see the spot and therefore shoot a horrible game . . . . . I know HOW but can't execute because of my lack of visual acuity . . . . . oh well guess I've shot my last four rail bank shot! Could be worse . . . .